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View Poll Results: Do you like Orihime?
I liked her before... 50 5.66%
I love her! 208 23.53%
I like her. 190 21.49%
Don't really like her, don't really hate her. 190 21.49%
I dislike her.. 87 9.84%
I HATE HER. 143 16.18%
Other. 16 1.81%
Voters: 884. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-12-17, 10:08   Link #2441
Sabaku Kyu
The Ironman
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
He was able to open a path into one of the two Official pathway ways from SS to earth. That doesn't translate into being able to open a path anywhere at anytime and go exactly where they want. That is a huge assumption for even you. Even more so for inoue. (You are also implying that Ulq could track her through the bracelet there isn't any indication of that.) The only way he could track for sure is with spiritual pressure. Of which, he has to be in the Human world to actually track)
You're basically saying that Orihime should count on the fact that hollows have a set limitations on where they can travel, even though we've seen them open garanta seemingly anywhere they want at anytime many, many times before. A group of gillian appeared right on Souyoku Hill to pick up Aizen.

As for Ulq only being able to track Orihime by her spiritual pressure, we saw Aizen watching Orihime's every move through a screen in Las Noches (chp 227). We should assume that Ulq doesn't have access to that same screen? It's obvious they can track her every move if they want to. BTW, hollows can also sense strong spiritual pressure from HM and can be attracted to those locations. Shinji explained that to Ichigo when he appeared to him on the rooftops.

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We also don't know if heading her off would have be easy especially if she was to go to the Vizard who Aizen doesn't know about or their whereabouts. Next question, how would going to the Vizards be more risky then going with an known enemy? Mind you these are the same Vizard that helped both her and Ichigo. So she goes to the Vizard then Ulq goes himself and has to fight 8 Vizard. Her prospects definately look better if that is the case do they not?
They had helped Ichigo train, they had not ever helped Ichigo fight (at least not that Orihime was aware of). None of the vizard appeared when Yami and Ulq attacked or when GJ and his fraccs attacked. Despite some of the vizard being relatively friendly, it's also fairly obvious that they don't like affiliating with others and are keeping out of the conflict until they see fit. Notice that no one who knows of the vizard including Ichigo, Rukia, Urahara and Isshin has asked them to aid in battle yet.

And once again, the reason Orihime went isn't because she believed there was no one who could protect her, but the fact that she wanted to give everyone the best chance to prepare themselves for battle rather than have immediate battle forced upon them.

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If reread some of the chapters, like 314 and 315, you see that there are some restrictions to using the Gargagta. And even if they could that doesn't mean that Ulq could open a gate at any time or anywhere within HM. We have no idea if there is a specific place that has to be used or not.
Aizen, Tousen and Gin as well as each of the Espada and their fraccs all enter the Karakura town through a different garganta. So at the least there are multiple locations to enter from Las Noches (and likely hollows have the innate ability since we've seen gillian move back and forth between realms).

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Also consider this, they could trace ichigo's spiritual pressure, but Ulq couldn't get them any nearer to him the first time they came to earth. Why weren't they at his house the moment they came to Earth? There are examples of both random and precise openings, which seems to make the process alot less controlled then you imply.
Ulq couldn't trace Ichigo's spiritual pressure because he wasn't exerting it. They had didn't know where he was. He and Yami basically appeared in a random place to begin the search.


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Your hostage analogy doesn't work on any level. Hostage situations imply that both parties can benefit from the exchange. Lives for demands.
Hostage situations are generally stalls. For the holders, it is a means to ensure that they can carry out their plans with minimal resistance. For the rescuers/negotiators, agreeing to the demands stops immediate loss of lives and gives time to figure out the best means to a solution, even if they believe that the holders will carry out the threat eventually any way. That's what Orihime was doing, stopping Ulq from carrying out his immediate threats in hopes that a better solution could be reached. Making assumptions that Ulq hadn't counted on the possibility that she might go for help when he voluntarily let her go would be naive even for Orihime.
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Old 2008-12-17, 11:29   Link #2442
Sinta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
You're basically saying that Orihime should count on the fact that hollows have a set limitations on where they can travel, even though we've seen them open garanta seemingly anywhere they want at anytime many, many times before. A group of gillian appeared right on Souyoku Hill to pick up Aizen.
They created a massive hole above all of SS that is hardly precise. They have also been in really random places. Even if they can get close to their target, that doesn't translate to swooping down on her the moment she does something they don't like. Given the inconsistency of use with the gates that is a huge assumption. For your assumption (or plan to work) all of the variables we discussed have to be dead on. They can get to her the moment they know something arry, can track regardless of what she does, can make good on all the threats. To make her believe that going with Aizen is the best possible choice, she has to be forced into believe its the only choice. There was no way she should have believed that. There are too many things that could go wrong.

Quote:
As for Ulq only being able to track Orihime by her spiritual pressure, we saw Aizen watching Orihime's every move through a screen in Las Noches (chp 227). We should assume that Ulq doesn't have access to that same screen? It's obvious they can track her every move if they want to. BTW, hollows can also sense strong spiritual pressure from HM and can be attracted to those locations. Shinji explained that to Ichigo when he appeared to him on the rooftops.
Then why didn't Ulq go straight to ichigo? Why weren't they right above his house the moment they came to earth? If it is as precise as you say there isn't any reason for them to touch down in that random location. the screen that Aizen was watching was a recording it has nothing to do with tracking ability, at least that I've seen. Bleach/227/18/ -- it shows what Ulq saw that is all.

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They had helped Ichigo train, they had not ever helped Ichigo fight (at least not that Orihime was aware of). None of the vizard appeared when Yami and Ulq attacked or when GJ and his fraccs attacked. Despite some of the vizard being relatively friendly, it's also fairly obvious that they don't like affiliating with others and are keeping out of the conflict until they see fit. Notice that no one who knows of the vizard including Ichigo, Rukia, Urahara and Isshin has asked them to aid in battle yet.
They already helped inoue once. She broke in with no consequences then they came to retrive her to give her advice about staying off the battle field. You are not seriously trying to say that going with Ulq is a better option then trying the Vizard. That doesn't make any sense given her past interaction with them.

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And once again, the reason Orihime went isn't because she believed there was no one who could protect her, but the fact that she wanted to give everyone the best chance to prepare themselves for battle rather than have immediate battle forced upon them.
I disagree, that maybe what she was telling herself. She may have even believed it. But the reason she went is because she wasn't thinking and made a bad choice. if she was thinking she would have realized all the things that i have mentioned.

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Aizen, Tousen and Gin as well as each of the Espada and their fraccs all enter the Karakura town through a different garganta. So at the least there are multiple locations to enter from Las Noches (and likely hollows have the innate ability since we've seen gillian move back and forth between realms).
We also know there are four that the captins used to get into HM, but that does not translated into anytime or any place. Certainly not so easy that she should automatic assume that Ulq can do anything the moment something goes wrong.


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Ulq couldn't trace Ichigo's spiritual pressure because he wasn't exerting it. They had didn't know where he was. He and Yami basically appeared in a random place to begin the search.
Who says that spiritual pressure has to be exerted? Ulq made comments on the spiritual pressure the moment they got into Earth. Not before. THere are different levels of ability when it comes to spiritual pressure, especially with people with high spiritual pressure, but for people who are aware of it doesn't matter if he is using it or not. Ichigo's spiritual pressure is being constantly leaked out. And what about your little screen? Ulq didn't have access then? Why did he have access in inoue's case? (though i have already explained that its a big T.V and not some sort of tracker) The only way to hide spiritual pressure is the giga or the barriers. That has been made pretty obvious. If spiritual pressure has to be used, then why are they able to track inoue so "perfectly" as you say.


Quote:
Hostage situations are generally stalls. For the holders, it is a means to ensure that they can carry out their plans with minimal resistance. For the rescuers/negotiators, agreeing to the demands stops immediate loss of lives and gives time to figure out the best means to a solution, even if they believe that the holders will carry out the threat eventually any way. That's what Orihime was doing, stopping Ulq from carrying out his immediate threats in hopes that a better solution could be reached. Making assumptions that Ulq hadn't counted on the possibility that she might go for help when he voluntarily let her go would be naive even for Orihime.
Not necessarily, sometimes hostage takers down even have a plan. The situation is one where both parties want, have the power to give or obtain something in return. Inoue had nothing to gain and everything to lose. Not only that she had to rely on the word of a liar and betrayer. Ulq was trying to manipulate her emotionally and succeed. I have already explained the situation changed after the initial confrontation. None of the stuff that you are Kagato mentioned are explained, expounded, heck they aren't even mentioned. Those are some vast assumptions that Ulq could do and make good on all those threats. Also, Ulq and Aizen's actions had so many red flags that inoue should have picked up and questioned even for a time instead of picking the WORST options she had to her. Inoue's intial stall was the right thing to do. By saying she was going she bought a bit a time, but going back after 12 hours was stupid beyond belief and not the right choice given the situation. Inoue even admits this now. If she had been thinking like she should have she would have realized it then. Assuming that he had the power to cover every base when he went out of his way to pick up this human women isn't naive, its just plain silly. If they were all powerful. They wouldn't need her. It was as simple as that.

You guys are contradicting yourself. First you say inoue can be tracked regardless of what she does and where she goes but then you say that they couldn't find Ichigo because he wasn't using his pressure? How is that consistent? Especially considering that Ichigo has vastly more power then inoue. He should be easier to track should he not?
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Last edited by Sinta; 2008-12-17 at 12:19.
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Old 2008-12-17, 13:37   Link #2443
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
They created a massive hole above all of SS that is hardly precise. They have also been in really random places.
The the garganta opened right above Aizen's head. Not only did they appear directly above Souyoku, but 3 Negacion only a few meters across were sent down with pinpoint accuracy to lift Aizen, Gin and Tousen.

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For your assumption (or plan to work) all of the variables we discussed have to be dead on. They can get to her the moment they know something arry, can track regardless of what she does can make good on all the threats. To make her believe that going with Aizen is the best possible choice, she has to be forced into believe its the only choice. There was no way she should have believed that. There are too many things that could go wrong.
Ulq had knowledge that Orihime was in SS and was able to even time his arrival with the time she was passing through the dimension that leads to the real world But she's supposed to assume that he has no way of tracking her when he let her in the real world? And she's supposed to believe Ulq can't make good on his threats, when:
  • she had been told by Yamamoto that SS wasn't prepared for battle
  • she saw Chad and Ichigo get decimated by Ulq's far weaker sidekick
  • Ulq showed her allies getting overwhelmed by small fraction espada

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Then why didn't Ulq go straight to ichigo? Why weren't they right above his house the moment they came to earth? If it is as precise as you say there isn't any reason for them to touch down in that random location. the screen that Aizen was watching was a recording it has nothing to do with tracking ability, at least that I've seen. Bleach/227/18/ -- it shows what Ulq saw that is all.
Ulq brought up view screens of what was happening in Karakura town live while he was talking to Orihime in the dimension between SS and the real world (not to mention that he tracked her there in the first place) So I do think there are ways of viewing into the real world and pinpointing locations. What conditions have to be met isn't known. The point is, it's implied Ulq has has kept close tabs on Orihime ever since he first encountered her. And there's no reason to assume he let her go into the real world with no way to keep track of what she was doing.

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They already helped inoue once. She broke in with no consequences then they came to retrive her to give her advice about staying off the battle field. You are not seriously trying to say that going with Ulq is a better option then trying the Vizard. That doesn't make any sense given her past interaction with them.
The vizards excusing her entry and Hacci giving her shun-shun rikka a patch-up isn't the same thing confirming them as allies she could count on to fight.
Friendly advice =/= ally in combat. Before Ichigo vs. GJ (which Ori didn't know about) The vizards kept themselves hidden and hadn't ever showed up for a battle before despite the good guys being desperately in need of help in some situations. Just because they were nice to her doesn't mean she should expect them to be willing to take on Aizen's army just because she asks nicely


Quote:
Who says that spiritual pressure has to be exerted? Ulq made comments on the spiritual pressure the moment they got into Earth. Not before. THere are different levels of ability when it comes to spiritual pressure, especially with people with high spiritual pressure, but for people who are aware of it doesn't matter if he is using it or not. Ichigo's spiritual pressure is being constantly leaked out.
Spiritual pressure can be sensed from HM if it is high enough. That is why Shinji told Ichigo stop being so "noisy". Because the spiritual pressure would attract the attention of the arrancar. Ichigo in his normal body doesn't exert nearly as high a reiatsu as when he's in shinigami form so it wasn't immediately apparent which of the 3 spiritual powers was him when Ulq and Yami arrived.


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You guys are contradicting yourself. First you say inoue can be tracked regardless of what she does and where she goes but then you say that they couldn't find Ichigo because he wasn't using his pressure? How is that consistent? Especially considering that Ichigo has vastly more power then inoue. He should be easier to track should he not?
We're saying that it's implied Ulq keeps track Orihime...not that's done necessarily just by sensing her spiritual pressure. You're the one claiming that he can only track by spiritual pressure
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Old 2008-12-17, 14:08   Link #2444
Mr. DJ
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Then why didn't Ulq go straight to ichigo? Why weren't they right above his house the moment they came to earth? If it is as precise as you say there isn't any reason for them to touch down in that random location.
plot-fu

we have already seen two cases of at least one Hollow being able to show up where he wanted...Orihime's brother. First time in Ichigo's room, the second time through a teddy bear in Orihime's living room,
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Old 2008-12-17, 14:31   Link #2445
Sinta
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Originally Posted by DjTrizz View Post
plot-fu

we have already seen two cases of at least one Hollow being able to show up where he wanted...Orihime's brother. First time in Ichigo's room, the second time through a teddy bear in Orihime's living room,
Then there is inconsistency at best; something that inoue couldn't have possibily know.


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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
The the garganta opened right above Aizen's head. Not only did they appear directly above Souyoku, but 3 Negacion only a few meters across were sent down with pinpoint accuracy to lift Aizen, Gin and Tousen.
The light was accurate. That doesn't translate into can open a portal up anywhere at anytime. So i'm not sure how the light is relevant to the discussion.

Quote:
Ulq had knowledge that Orihime was in SS and was able to even time his arrival with the time she was passing through the dimension that leads to the real world But she's supposed to assume that he has no way of tracking her when he let her in the real world? And she's supposed to believe Ulq can't make good on his threats, when:
  • she had been told by Yamamoto that SS wasn't prepared for battle
  • she saw Chad and Ichigo get decimated by Ulq's far weaker sidekick
  • Ulq showed her allies getting overwhelmed by small fraction espada
She was using the one official pathway. The doesn't seem to be some great feat to me.
  • She is supposed to believe that Aizen is all powerful when he hasn't made his move yet
  • Goes out of his way to get her?
  • She knows of the Vizard, Urahara and SS coming.


Quote:
Ulq brought up view screens of what was happening in Karakura town live while he was talking to Orihime in the dimension between SS and the real world (not to mention that he tracked her there in the first place) So I do think there are ways of viewing into the real world and pinpointing locations. What conditions have to be met isn't known. The point is, it's implied Ulq has has kept close tabs on Orihime ever since he first encountered her. And there's no reason to assume he let her go into the real world with no way to keep track of what she was doing.
You have no way of proving that, and to assume that he has absolutely control over the situation when there are so many variables is folly especially considering that conclusion causes her to make the utterly stupid mistake of relying on Aizen's word. Its a risk benefit analysis. She analyzes the risk vs the benefits of any given actions. Her choice to go to HM has the MOST amount of risk, with the least amount of benefit.


If Aizen could bring up view points at anytime of anything why didn't Ulq use that to find Ichigo before he left the first time around? What about when he got back and used his eye? Why didn't Aizen just watch while it was happening? The screen has only shown Aizen watching already recorded video, nothing else. It would be a huge tactical mistake to not watch the known enemy if you could. WE have no reason to believe he can. SS had to bring in a massive t.v to communicate across demisions but Aizen can just magically view everything at anytime? Come now.

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The vizards excusing her entry and Hacci giving her shun-shun rikka a patch-up isn't the same thing confirming them as allies she could count on to fight.
Friendly advice =/= ally in combat. Before Ichigo vs. GJ (which Ori didn't know about) The vizards kept themselves hidden and hadn't ever showed up for a battle before despite the good guys being desperately in need of help in some situations. Just because they were nice to her doesn't mean she should expect them to be willing to take on Aizen's army just because she asks nicely
No she shouldn't assume that. Just like she shouldn't assume that Ulq has perfect control over the situation. That does not mean she should not try to engage the Vizard, if it can keep her out of Ulq hands; she didn't even consider it. Worst case, they kill her. Better that then Aizen using her power to destroy her friends and SS. You are trying to say that Inoue should go with a known enemy then try potential allies? That makes no sense.


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Spiritual pressure can be sensed from HM if it is high enough. That is why Shinji told Ichigo stop being so "noisy". Because the spiritual pressure would attract the attention of the arrancar. Ichigo in his normal body doesn't exert nearly as high a reiatsu as when he's in shinigami form so it wasn't immediately apparent which of the 3 spiritual powers was him when Ulq and Yami arrived.
Spiritual pressure is high enough to track from Hm, so Ulq couldn't find Ichigo before he came. The reason for that is because he was in his human body then why do you claim that he can track inoue where ever she is? That does not make any sense.


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We're saying that it's implied Ulq keeps track Orihime...not that's done necessarily just by sensing her spiritual pressure. You're the one claiming that he can only track by spiritual pressure
And I'm saying that we don't have any reason to believe that he can track her beyond the spiritual pressure. He said that he would know. We don't have any evidence to back that up. Either did inoue and even if he did the risk would have been worth trying to get away. Even if you were right and people could go exactly where they want when they want the only times that have been shown to track people to a semi-close location is in a state of high spiritual pressure. I use Kagato's examples. Tosen come from Hm and Ulq coming from HM. There was a TON of pressure. That is how they were tracked. Inoue doesn't have that.

Here is the last flaw in the arugments presented. You are making arguments based on what WE know as viewers or readers. Not what Inoue necessarily knew. She made her choice on what she knew and she made a bad, not thought out one. You said that she left because she was trying to help her friends? Her leaving doesn't help her friends. There are many more reasons beyond that.
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Last edited by Sinta; 2008-12-17 at 14:45.
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Old 2008-12-17, 15:49   Link #2446
Mr. DJ
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just wouldn't be shounen w/out inconsistency

if it was really consistent, I think 9 times out of 10, Villains would win.
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Old 2008-12-17, 15:57   Link #2447
cloak_and_dagger
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Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
You have no way of proving that, and to assume that he has absolutely control over the situation when there are so many variables is folly especially considering that conclusion causes her to make the utterly stupid mistake of relying on Aizen's word.
And you have no way of disproving it.

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Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
Its a risk benefit analysis. She analyzes the risk vs the benefits of any given actions. Her choice to go to HM has the MOST amount of risk, with the least amount of benefit.
To her, since she never thought she was coming back...

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Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
Spiritual pressure is high enough to track from Hm, so Ulq couldn't find Ichigo before he came. The reason for that is because he was in his human body then why do you claim that he can track inoue where ever she is? That does not make any sense.
....Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that because of the bracelet he gave her? Sorry, but I'd lose my ample amount of faith in Ulqui's intellect if he gave her a bracelet that couldn't allow him to track her.


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Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
Here is the last flaw in the arugments presented. You are making arguments based on what WE know as viewers or readers. Not what Inoue necessarily knew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
  • She knows of the Vizard, Urahara and SS coming.
^You said it, not anyone else


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinta View Post
No she shouldn't assume that. Just like she shouldn't assume that Ulq has perfect control over the situation. That does not mean she should not try to engage the Vizard, if it can keep her out of Ulq hands; she didn't even consider it. Worst case, they kill her. Better that then Aizen using her power to destroy her friends and SS.
If all you saw was your friends being slaughtered before your eyes, what reason did she have to think that Ulqui was bluffing? The fact that he wasn't even involved and HM was winning is enough to show Ichigo&co's impotence.
In addition, she wasn't thinking about herself[Note bold references in quote]. Most likely her viewpoint was if she tries anything funny, they would kill Ichigo...and the rest lol. I believe Ichigo was the nucleus of her decision. The weight of mistakenly calling Ulqui's bluff and having her friends murdered vs venturing out in uncertainty to save her own skin...obviously the former is a worst case scenario but after what she'd been shown it's no wonder she was afraid to act outside his orders.
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Old 2008-12-17, 16:11   Link #2448
Wargumm1i
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Well i wont deny that fact she is clearly clueless klutz who cant think for herself, but she has looks she is cute with hugh breasts I give her points for that.

So basically in many peoples minds she is only good for spreading her legs lol.

But I do see her good points, the onlys reason she left without a fight was so she could destroy the Hogyoku, which im pretty sure Aizen saw through.

So basically I do support Orihime more than I support Rukia, also Rukia doesnt have a crush on Ichigo and hasent even shown a single sign of crush on Ichigo, she only cares about him like she cares about everyone.

I even saw more chances with Renji and Rukia then i ever saw with Ichigo and Rukia.

So basically Orihime is the current only person who has feelings for Ichigo and im pretty sure Ichigo willl soon see it or get a confession from Orihime hopefully a kissing scene.
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Old 2008-12-17, 16:18   Link #2449
Ilija
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Originally Posted by Utsukushii Hono'o View Post
Once he was healed did she say that? Rukia knew he came with others yet she still screamed to go away. He just wouldn't listen to her. She was not happy he came until she was lied to and assured that he would be safe. Other than that she worried about him the whole time.
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Spoiler for image:
Hasn't this already been explained?

Quote:
Orihime admits that the truth was even as she questioned "Why did they come" because she left to prevent that, even as she thought that, even as she heard that. The truth was she was HAPPY he had come. (Desire to be saved fulfilled)

What do you get out of that? what do you think she meant? Why would she make such a statement if deep down in her heart that isn't what she was hoping for? Can you tell me that? Can you explain to me what purpose that served for her to say that? If not to show that she indeed confirmed her value by his rescue. Why did she think like that?
What are you talking about? She didn't have any desire to be saved when she left, she left to protect her friends. And you're being a little inaccurate, she was happy that they had came to save her. She's in love with Ichigo but she still cares about and pays attention to her friends. She was happy and sad: happy that they cared enough about her to risk their lives for her; sad that they were risking their lives. She left to protect them, she didn't leave to catch Ichio's attention.

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Rukia was NOT envious of Orihime's relationship with Ichigo. Rukia does not suffer from a case of hero worship of Ichigo like Orihime does. Rukia did not compare herself to Orihime and found herself lacking BEFORE SHE LEFT. Orihime was all of those things. So while you may disagree with me. I have legitimate reasons to believe this. Given the differences in their emotions at the time.

Orihime unlike Rukia knew exactly who came to save her and she was happy about it. Her actions were not the same as Rukia's. Her mental state was not the same as Rukia. Not at all...
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Spoiler for image:
...How are you not getting this?
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Old 2008-12-17, 16:35   Link #2450
Sinta
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Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
And you have no way of disproving it.
Exactly which is why inoue should not assume something when she or we has no way of knowing. Especially if assuming the opposite forces into making a stupid decision like going to aizen.

Quote:
To her, since she never thought she was coming back...
Are you trying to make a point here? The risk of her cooperating were far greater then her resisting, maybe not as immediate, but for greater. She has proven that to be correct.

Quote:
....Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that because of the bracelet he gave her? Sorry, but I'd lose my ample amount of faith in Ulqui's intellect if he gave her a bracelet that couldn't allow him to track her.
He doesn't say that it tracks but that only people can sense her presence are arrancar. But doesn't mean that they can follow her every movement from another demenision. And how would he know what she was doing? There isn't any indication that she was being followed or that the bracelet did anything but mask her presence. Further, Ulq later explained that he was relying on his emotional mantipulation. Despite this, its irrelevant as she should still have tried as her friend were probably going to end up dead anyway and Aizen obviously wanted her power to further his plan.






Quote:
^You said it, not anyone else
Yeah if you have a point here you are going to have explain. I was pointing out that she had plenty of options. If you are implying that she DIDN" know that SS was coming. You are confused, but that is very clear she knew that SS was planning on fight the war in her town. there was already people there from SS. Your one line response doesn't disprove that or add in any way to the discussion. So if you don't mind, please expound.


Quote:
If all you saw was your friends being slaughtered before your eyes, what reason did she have to think that Ulqui was bluffing? The fact that he wasn't even involved and HM was winning is enough to show Ichigo&co's impotence.
In addition, she wasn't thinking about herself[Note bold references in quote]. Most likely her viewpoint was if she tries anything funny, they would kill Ichigo...and the rest lol. I believe Ichigo was the nucleus of her decision. The weight of mistakenly calling Ulqui's bluff and having her friends murdered vs venturing out in uncertainty to save her own skin...obviously the former is a worst case scenario but after what she'd been shown it's no wonder she was afraid to act outside his orders.
Her friends weren't being slaughtered. I have already explained what reasons he had to believe he was bluffing, but even if he wasn't. She still had time opportunity and the brains to work something out.

The rest of your argument is based on the assumption that she was saving their lives by cooperating. There was no reason to believe that Aizen would keep her his word and not hurt her friends the moment she did what he asked. The guy cares little for honor or life. She knows this. The fact that he wanted her power should be the biggest indication that she should have at least tried to stay away. Your justification are just that, justifications in hindsight. There is no reason for inoue to believe that she or her friend would have been better off if she followed Aizen's orders. None whatsoever.


Quote:
who cant think for herself, but she has looks she is cute with hugh breasts I give her points for that.

So basically in many peoples minds she is only good for spreading her legs lol.

But I do see her good points, the onlys reason she left without a fight was so she could destroy the Hogyoku, which im pretty sure Aizen saw through.

So basically I do support Orihime more than I support Rukia, also Rukia doesnt have a crush on Ichigo and hasent even shown a single sign of crush on Ichigo, she only cares about him like she cares about everyone.

I even saw more chances with Renji and Rukia then i ever saw with Ichigo and Rukia.

So basically Orihime is the current only person who has feelings for Ichigo and im pretty sure Ichigo willl soon see it or get a confession from Orihime hopefully a kissing scene.
Wrong threat my friend. The Ichigo/Rukia/inoue dynamic has no place here though your hope is displaced. There is no reason to Ichigo would ever return Inoue's feelings.

Well, I think i have posted enough for one day. I will leave my arguments at that. Great discussion though peeps. Very good indeed.
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Old 2008-12-17, 18:17   Link #2451
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They created a massive hole above all of SS that is hardly precise. They have also been in really random places. Even if they can get close to their target, that doesn't translate to swooping down on her the moment she does something they don't like. Given the inconsistency of use with the gates
What inconsistency with the gates? Everytime any Hollow or Shinigami has used a gate or portal they have ended up exactly where they wanted to.And even if they can get only with in 10 feet away you fail to remember that almost all of the Espada are as fast as Bankai Ichigo which last I check was many times faster then Orihime.
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that is a huge assumption. For your assumption (or plan to work) all of the variables we discussed have to be dead on. They can get to her the moment they know something arry, can track regardless of what she does,
Given that we were shown Ulqui can show random real time pictures of the real world focusing on her friends and has the ablity to intercept her seconds after she left SS these two points are a given unless she finds a way to sheild herself with a very powerful sheild and even if she could with out removeing the bracelet, which you would be foolish to belive they did not have a way of telling if it had or not, that still calls in the atack right then and there, the one thing she was trying to avoid.

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can make good on all the threats.
Do you honestly think Azein couldn't make a good showing on those threats? Remember the plan was Azein's not Ulqui's.

Quote:
To make her believe that going with Aizen is the best possible choice, she has to be forced into believe its the only choice. There was no way she should have believed that. There are too many things that could go wrong.
The only choice she had was wather she was going to piss off the man that could order an atack on her home town or not before being brought to HM.

Quote:

We also know there are four that the captins used to get into HM, but that does not translated into anytime or any place. Certainly not so easy that she should automatic assume that Ulq can do anything the moment something goes wrong.
You mean like how Tosen couldn't use one to go after Grim after he lost the rest of his team. Or how Ulqui couldn't use one to ambush someone right as they are entering the relm between Earth and SS. Or go riegn in Grimjaw. Or pull the rest of the loser squad out of their fights.

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Who says that spiritual pressure has to be exerted? Ulq made comments on the spiritual pressure the moment they got into Earth. Not before. THere are different levels of ability when it comes to spiritual pressure, especially with people with high spiritual pressure, but for people who are aware of it doesn't matter if he is using it or not. Ichigo's spiritual pressure is being constantly leaked out. And what about your little screen? Ulq didn't have access then? Why did he have access in inoue's case? (though i have already explained that its a big T.V and not some sort of tracker) The only way to hide spiritual pressure is the giga or the barriers. That has been made pretty obvious. If spiritual pressure has to be used, then why are they able to track inoue so "perfectly" as you say.
Well to track someone you have to find them first and it has been brought up in quite a few places that spiritual pressure vairies as it is spiritual exerted. You also are conventitly ignoreing that Ichigo's powers are not stable as Ulq stated they go from run of the mill trash to over his. Added to that he had never met or felt Ichigo's powers before so it's not like he could focus in on someone and go thats Ichigo. As for tracking Orihime They all ready had some way or they ccould not have ambushed her in the first place and just because Ulq "let her go" doesn't mean she wasn't being watched or followed. Do you realy belive Azein would have completely let her go with out montering her? That doesn't sound to consistant with the plan Ulq outlined to old spoony in ch 249.
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You guys are contradicting yourself. First you say inoue can be tracked regardless of what she does and where she goes but then you say that they couldn't find Ichigo because he wasn't using his pressure? How is that consistent? Especially considering that Ichigo has vastly more power then inoue. He should be easier to track should he not?
Again you kinda need to know what to look for when tracking someone and last I checked that was Ulq first meeting with Ichigo. It's not like he has ever been shown not able to find Ichigo afterwards.
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Old 2008-12-17, 19:00   Link #2452
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Just out of curiosity, what other options Orihime could have entertained in that particular situation with the dashing and looming Ulqui?

The reason I'm curious is because both times they, Rukia and Orihime, felt they needed to protect Ichigo from superior enemies after witnessing a first-hand beat-down of Ichigo. Both of those situation where these two ladies made certain choices which lead to playing the damsel-in-distress role spontaneously spurred from this little phrase called, "Time, place, and circumstances." Can I say it again? Yes? OK..

Time, place, and circumstances.

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Old 2008-12-17, 19:06   Link #2453
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when all else fails...kiss the man >.> then again, that probably would of failed too as Ulq's face probably would of remained unchanged as he says "what are you doing woman?"
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Old 2008-12-18, 00:05   Link #2454
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So... how about that Christmas cover of Orihime in the latest chapter? XD
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Old 2008-12-18, 04:03   Link #2455
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So... how about that Christmas cover of Orihime in the latest chapter? XD
I hate it .. Of Course ..
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Old 2008-12-18, 06:20   Link #2456
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So... how about that Christmas cover of Orihime in the latest chapter? XD
I adore it
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Old 2008-12-18, 15:34   Link #2457
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Oh , one last thing. All of the arguments about Inoue's choosing the riskiest choice instead of trying to contact possible allies have some merit in them, but even if the latter choice was the most logical, try to factor in Inoue's logic based on circumstantial evidence. Does she function well under pressure? No. Is she the type to make quick and concise decisions with deliberation? No. Is she adept at strategy? No. I don't believe I have to post reference material to back up my claims.

Inoue's decision is in perfect accordance with her character. I think Kubo didn't make any mistakes with that situation.

btw Sinta you post good arguments.

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Old 2008-12-18, 16:24   Link #2458
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Inoue's decision is in perfect accordance with her character. I think Kubo didn't make any mistakes with that situation.
I agree. That's why I pretty-much don't like her character.
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btw Sinta you post good arguments.

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Old 2008-12-18, 16:54   Link #2459
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Well i wont deny that fact she is clearly clueless klutz who cant think for herself, but she has looks she is cute with hugh breasts I give her points for that.

So basically in many peoples minds she is only good for spreading her legs lol.
Orhime is not clueless she is smart but she just makes quick decisions which makes her seem it. Yea some like her for that. She okay with me.

But I do see her good points, the onlys reason she left without a fight was so she could destroy the Hogyoku, which im pretty sure Aizen saw through.

Quote:
So basically I do support Orihime more than I support Rukia, also Rukia doesnt have a crush on Ichigo and hasent even shown a single sign of crush on Ichigo, she only cares about him like she cares about everyone.

I even saw more chances with Renji and Rukia then i ever saw with Ichigo and Rukia.

So basically Orihime is the current only person who has feelings for Ichigo and im pretty sure Ichigo willl soon see it or get a confession from Orihime hopefully a kissing scene.
Kubo doesn't want a romance as the main topic so there is very likely not going to happen. There a lot of chances with relationships. Not all romance is blushing and giggley. It can be calm and some would never know it was feeling beeing shown.

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Old 2008-12-18, 18:21   Link #2460
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I agree. That's why I pretty-much don't like her character.
I love her all the same
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