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View Poll Results: Do you like Orihime?
I liked her before... 50 5.66%
I love her! 208 23.53%
I like her. 190 21.49%
Don't really like her, don't really hate her. 190 21.49%
I dislike her.. 87 9.84%
I HATE HER. 143 16.18%
Other. 16 1.81%
Voters: 884. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-09-22, 00:47   Link #1201
Hari Michiru
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Originally Posted by DjTrizz View Post
subjective
Note the word usually.
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Old 2008-09-22, 00:58   Link #1202
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death isn't picky

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Old 2008-09-22, 01:02   Link #1203
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death isn't picky

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Lol, now this is derailing from the original argument.

The point still stands: Rukia's life wasn't happy and carefree as kagato3 imagines it to be...
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Old 2008-09-22, 01:04   Link #1204
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hey, sometimes you to ignore that the cake is a lie
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Old 2008-09-22, 01:06   Link #1205
Hari Michiru
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hey, sometimes you to ignore that the cake is a lie
Huh? Grammar pl0x.

Anyway, I think Rukia is mentally stronger than Orihime, and has shown more development. There's still that tiny strand of hope inside me that Orihime will get over Ichigo and learn to stand on her own without collapsing in like...5 seconds after being strong.
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Old 2008-09-22, 01:40   Link #1206
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bah word fumble, I've been sick the past couple of days

*sometimes you have to ignore that the cake is a lie*
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Old 2008-09-22, 02:36   Link #1207
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Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
Huh? Grammar pl0x.

Anyway, I think Rukia is mentally stronger than Orihime, and has shown more development. There's still that tiny strand of hope inside me that Orihime will get over Ichigo and learn to stand on her own without collapsing in like...5 seconds after being strong.
Thats a hope that won't happen, might as well hope Rukia sproats a penis and make explicit yaoi love with Toshiro.
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Old 2008-09-22, 03:09   Link #1208
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Thats a hope that won't happen, might as well hope Rukia sproats a penis and make explicit yaoi love with Toshiro.
No not Toshirou. Jidanbou. I won't allow you to smear Toshirou's name. He's not the yaoi boy type.

The possibility would be really, really very low if it is with Jidanbou.
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Old 2008-09-22, 03:32   Link #1209
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So you still liked Rukia through the "I'm disgusting and not worth saving stage" but when Orihime has a self-image problem you find it pathetic? Or did you hate Rukia during SS then go back to liking her after she got over it? Sounds like you don't dislike Orihime because of her flaws, rather you use the flaws to justify your dislike of her.

Like Rukia, Orihime was given problems so that people would sympathize with her. But if you have a strong dislike of the character in the first place you're not going to be able to sympathize with them. I know you resent being called biased, but if you were able to look past Rukia's issues, but are unable to get past Orihime's, then yeah, I think you have a bit of a biased outlook.

But like blue skies said, there's nothing wrong with that and it doesn't mean everything you say untrue. There's things about Orihime's character that could be done better. But overall, I think you (and others) have an entirely different standard on which you judge Orihime's actions compared to the other characters.
Because Rukia got over it way faster than Orihime. Not to mention, she didn't say it like million times. Orihime has been like that since chapter 194, it's a circle repeating over and over again. While with Rukia, we didn't hear her whining 100 times a chapter o.o
So the reason of giving problems to a character is so that readers can feel sorry for them instead of admire them? I'm sorry for not being Orihime rabid lover or not being able to sypmathize with the tragic princess with sucky past but when I dislike a character, I do because of their personality not "traumatic" past or stuff.


Quote:
Eh? Tatsuki pwns? Orihime was the one that saved her from the hollow that attacked in the early chapters. Tatsuki crumpled like a piece of paper in front of Yami then she became increasingly depressed and disturbed after that, causing her to lash out at Ichigo because she can't understand anything that's going on. She can beat up normal people with karate (which Orihime can also do) but other than that...
Orihime saved he rbecause she has more reiatsu and powers are not everything.
Tatsuki came determined and not only beated everyone, but she was very aware of how dangerous is the monster and still had the strenght to defend Orihime. What annoys me is how people give credit only to Orihime in that chapter when Tatsuki did worse only because of spirit power. Tatsuki pwns because she has confidence unlike Hime-chan.
She can't understand what's going on because no one is telling her.


Quote:
And if we're going to use Ishida and Ichigo as the standards of what's "strong" then yeah, most of the other human teenagers are going to come off looking ridiculously weak.
Yes, it's exactly what I said xD

kagato3-look,
I CAN READ. No need for huge sentences please, I'm still yougn and even if I wear glasses, I'm able to read even small words.
Hm, does it look like they had home?
God, you made me want to live in Rukongai the way you explained it. I prefer living with no family but with friends in normal Japan city than in a harsh city with no family where I have to steal.
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Old 2008-09-22, 03:48   Link #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asam_laksa View Post
No not Toshirou. Jidanbou. I won't allow you to smear Toshirou's name. He's not the yaoi boy type.

The possibility would be really, really very low if it is with Jidanbou.
I think you'll be rather shocked then to see how much AizenxToshiro Yaoi stuff there is. lol

Anyway, some of you are forgetting that Orihime was constantly abused by her classmates for all her life until Tatsuki started protecting her 2 years ago.

Here's a quickie on the difference of their childhood.

Rukia's, full of smiley faces and good times;

Spoiler for image:


Orihime; you get the picture...

Spoiler for image:
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Old 2008-09-22, 05:26   Link #1211
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Had to!? I'd eat doves anyday =3




WTH?!??! GIMME SUM DOVE SANDWICHES!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Orihime; you get the picture...

Spoiler for image:
Wow...the anime sure waters down the drama....I guess I need to start back reading the manga from chap 1, and not 80.
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Old 2008-09-22, 05:28   Link #1212
Alea Misa
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara
Anyway, some of you are forgetting that Orihime was constantly abused by her classmates for all her life until Tatsuki started protecting her 2 years ago.

Here's a quickie on the difference of their childhood.

Rukia's, full of smiley faces and good times;
The examples you provided for Rukia was the story Renji was telling, his memory of the times that made an impression on him _about_ Rukia and the times where his familial unit was completed. This doesn't really come from Rukia's point of view, it comes from Renji's. Don't forget the timing of the chapters and why there are there as well.
Spoiler for Continuing...:

Last edited by Alea Misa; 2008-09-22 at 05:59.
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Old 2008-09-22, 05:54   Link #1213
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There are many things you're not taking into account. S.S. is a completely different culture altogether. I've said this dozens of times already. What Rukia and Renji went through is considered normal, just as it would be considered normal a few hundred years ago here on our very earth. Its nothing to sympathesize for.

Rukia never felt any remorse over her past, it had no effect on her, as its whats considered normal. She only felt ousted when she went into the academy. Where the caste system began to show its ugly head. She was average, and above all else a commoner and was surrounded by noble snobs. That was the only time she felt out of place and insecure. Renji on the other hand adapted a lot better, and studied hard to be among the best in the academy. What really hurt her the most was when Renji pushed her to be adopted by the Kuchiki clan. As she didn't want to, rather she wanted to stay by Renji's side. Until she met Kaein that is, who made her felt like she belonged.

The only part of her past that had any traumatic effect was Kaein's death, and thats pure fact. Oh, and minorly with Byakuya who never treated her like family, but that was resolved.

Orihime, dealt with loneliness. She never had any friends, until 2 years ago when she met Tatsuki, one year after her brothers death. Even with her brother around, there was still a distance between them. Like the example I gave, she never was able to talk to him about her problems. Always putting a fake smile and what not.

Bullying is a major issue in Japan, its done primarily in secret and the hazing becomes so extreme that its a leading cause of suicide amongst kids there. Don't take it so lightly. Rukia never knew she had a sister, so the abandonment issue was never there. Rukia always had Renji and crew, they were her family. They laugh and play together in a carefree environment. Also, souls don't need to eat, only drink. Renji and Rukia didn't start feeling hunger until their spirtual powers developed more.
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Old 2008-09-22, 07:13   Link #1214
Alea Misa
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara:

There are many things you're not taking into account. S.S. is a completely different culture altogether. I've said this dozens of times already. What Rukia and Renji went through is considered normal, just as it would be considered normal a few hundred years ago here on our very earth. Its nothing to sympathesize for.

Rukia never felt any remorse over her past, it had no effect on her, as its whats considered normal. She only felt ousted when she went into the academy. Where the caste system began to show its ugly head. She was average, and above all else a commoner and was surrounded by noble snobs. That was the only time she felt out of place and insecure. Renji on the other hand adapted a lot better, and studied hard to be among the best in the academy. What really hurt her the most was when Renji pushed her to be adopted by the Kuchiki clan. As she didn't want to, rather she wanted to stay by Renji's side. Until she met Kaein that is, who made her felt like she belonged.
I know that it is a different culture, but the circumstances Rukia, and the Rukongai kids face are difficult despite if it is 'considered normal'. No character/person would consider being treated badly and having to adapt and learn how to survive in such harsh conditions easy from when they were children. No child was born to know this out of the blue. Its simply the fact that they dealt with it and adapted to it because they had to, as that was the type of circumstances and situation they faced. Some fared better than others, and others died like Rukia's friends. Others became bitter and b***hed about it.
Rukia wanted to stay with Renji, but she wanted to go into the Kuchiki house at the same time for whatever reason. But even then she had to work with other divisions to learn and train, she did earn her powers and abilities, but Rukia increased and improved on that when she went into the 13th Division having met Kaien.

Quote:
The only part of her past that had any traumatic effect was Kaein's death, and thats pure fact. Oh, and minorly with Byakuya who never treated her like family, but that was resolved.
Yea, much later on, fortunately enough. Before he just wanted to kill her, if it hadn't been for Ichigo, she would have been destroyed by the leaders of SS.

Quote:
Orihime, dealt with loneliness. She never had any friends, until 2 years ago when she met Tatsuki, one year after her brothers death. Even with her brother around, there was still a distance between them. Like the example I gave, she never was able to talk to him about her problems. Always putting a fake smile and what not.

Bullying is a major issue in Japan, its done primarily in secret and the hazing becomes so extreme that its a leading cause of suicide amongst kids there. Don't take it so lightly. Rukia never knew she had a sister, so the abandonment issue was never there. Rukia always had Renji and crew, they were her family. They laugh and play together in a carefree environment. Also, souls don't need to eat, only drink. Renji and Rukia didn't start feeling hunger until their spirtual powers developed more.
Rukia experienced loneliness throughout her existence in the manga. She didn't have 'friends' _before_ she met Renji and the 'crew'. And what I am saying about her sister is that Rukia never got to ---know--- her sister at all. Unlike Orihime, she had her brother that praised her, was warm and loving. Even if she did have her group of friends, they had to all learn how to survive, and Rukia seemed to be the one who bested in finding ways to do it. And the environment that they lived in was not really all that carefree, children play naturally, but it was still dangerous and harsh in Rukongai. Children there are also not invincible to illness or death either. As apart from Renji, Rukia's friends died as I will repeat again. And yes, souls don't usually need food until they develop spiritual power, but both Rukia and Renji developed that rather early as kids, so they did need food, which is hard to attain.

When Rukia had been taken into the House of Kuchiki, she was torn away from Renji, her only friend, and Byakuya sent her to various divisions where no one liked her, and I'm sure she has been bullied before by others who thought badly of her, until she went to work with the 13th Division. Seemed to be quite awhile since she had even a little break, she also shouldered responsibilities as a Shinigami even when she didn't get to complete her study in the Shinigami school. She learned to fight throughout her life to _survive_, but that was learned on her part, and she was successful enough to live through all that and become a shinigami and _earn_ her powers and abilities, along with the emotional strength and a stable mentality.
And just because the culture is different doesn't mean the circumstances to learn how to strengthen the character is any different. So Orihime was born into modern times, and others didn't like her cause she was different, so what? Does she need to survive on what others think of her? Does she even have enough strength in her to learn how to defend herself, instead of play victim? She had no friends for two years, big deal, her life wasn't as complicated and difficult as Rukia's. Rukia simply adapted and accepted what was there, she built a higher tolerance and more strength cause she was willing to do something about what bothered her. She grew, matured, became more than she once was, because she worked hard to figure things out independently within herself and interact with her surroundings as was necessary. And this was the willingness and determination on her part as well.

It seems more 'dramatic' when the girl who is lonely tries to smile and pretend she is happy, but the sadness is just the same as anyone else who has experienced loneliness. In the end it doesn't matter if no one does anything but sulk, whine, and cry about it at every turn. Its the fact that Orihime did nothing to improve her life at school, and within herself, she just kept being the martyr. She had to have someone else come into her life to protect and defend her. I mean for crying out loud, Rukia dealt with pushy and bully adults before she finished teething, and she even defended and helped other kids.
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Old 2008-09-22, 08:25   Link #1215
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Byakuya sent her to various divisions where no one liked her, and I'm sure she has been bullied before by others who thought badly of her
uh...buh? source plz my old man memory is foggy
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Old 2008-09-22, 08:39   Link #1216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alea Misa View Post
I know that it is a different culture, but the circumstances Rukia, and the Rukongai kids face are difficult despite if it is 'considered normal'. No character/person would consider being treated badly and having to adapt and learn how to survive in such harsh conditions easy from when they were children. No child was born to know this out of the blue. Its simply the fact that they dealt with it and adapted to it because they had to, as that was the type of circumstances and situation they faced. Some fared better than others, and others died like Rukia's friends. Others became bitter and b***hed about it.
Rukia wanted to stay with Renji, but she wanted to go into the Kuchiki house at the same time for whatever reason. But even then she had to work with other divisions to learn and train, she did earn her powers and abilities, but Rukia increased and improved on that when she went into the 13th Division having met Kaien.



Yea, much later on, fortunately enough. Before he just wanted to kill her, if it hadn't been for Ichigo, she would have been destroyed by the leaders of SS.



Rukia experienced loneliness throughout her existence in the manga. She didn't have 'friends' _before_ she met Renji and the 'crew'. And what I am saying about her sister is that Rukia never got to ---know--- her sister at all. Unlike Orihime, she had her brother that praised her, was warm and loving. Even if she did have her group of friends, they had to all learn how to survive, and Rukia seemed to be the one who bested in finding ways to do it. And the environment that they lived in was not really all that carefree, children play naturally, but it was still dangerous and harsh in Rukongai. Children there are also not invincible to illness or death either. As apart from Renji, Rukia's friends died as I will repeat again. And yes, souls don't usually need food until they develop spiritual power, but both Rukia and Renji developed that rather early as kids, so they did need food, which is hard to attain.

When Rukia had been taken into the House of Kuchiki, she was torn away from Renji, her only friend, and Byakuya sent her to various divisions where no one liked her, and I'm sure she has been bullied before by others who thought badly of her, until she went to work with the 13th Division. Seemed to be quite awhile since she had even a little break, she also shouldered responsibilities as a Shinigami even when she didn't get to complete her study in the Shinigami school. She learned to fight throughout her life to _survive_, but that was learned on her part, and she was successful enough to live through all that and become a shinigami and _earn_ her powers and abilities, along with the emotional strength and a stable mentality.
And just because the culture is different doesn't mean the circumstances to learn how to strengthen the character is any different. So Orihime was born into modern times, and others didn't like her cause she was different, so what? Does she need to survive on what others think of her? Does she even have enough strength in her to learn how to defend herself, instead of play victim? She had no friends for two years, big deal, her life wasn't as complicated and difficult as Rukia's. Rukia simply adapted and accepted what was there, she built a higher tolerance and more strength cause she was willing to do something about what bothered her. She grew, matured, became more than she once was, because she worked hard to figure things out independently within herself and interact with her surroundings as was necessary. And this was the willingness and determination on her part as well.

It seems more 'dramatic' when the girl who is lonely tries to smile and pretend she is happy, but the sadness is just the same as anyone else who has experienced loneliness. In the end it doesn't matter if no one does anything but sulk, whine, and cry about it at every turn. Its the fact that Orihime did nothing to improve her life at school, and within herself, she just kept being the martyr. She had to have someone else come into her life to protect and defend her. I mean for crying out loud, Rukia dealt with pushy and bully adults before she finished teething, and she even defended and helped other kids.
Alot of what you're saying is pure speculation. Kubo likes to show what people experience if it affects who they are. We don't know that Rukia was lonely the 5 years before she met Renji. We don't know if she was ever bullied or what not. Chances of that happening is zero. Rukia being bullied is lol, yeah right. Rukia is the bully beater since she was a 5 year old.

Rukia did NOT want to go to the Kuchiki's, it was never expressed. What she wanted was for Renji to tell her to stay with him.

Rukia did not grow on her own. Kaein trained her, made her better. He was her emotional support as well, where Renji was not, as he thought that disconnecting himself for her would make her happy.

And Orihime having no friends for 2 years? where the flying dog shit did that come from? She only started having friends 2 years ago. First being Tatsuki, being her sole friend, then when she entered H.S. started making new friends. Do you even pay attention?

Rukia was being antisocial since she became a shinigami, she didn't try to make friends or improve herself, only sulking, until Kaein came along and beat her in the head about it. The same way Tatsuki did for Inoue. Rukia was happy again until Kaein's death, then she reverted back to being sulky and made no friends, everything being a fascade. But that was fixed after Ichigo beat it into her head that her friends are there for her.

You're placing Rukia on too high of a seat and not realizing all her emoness. She was better off in the slums. Once she entered the academy was when her withdrawal began, as the intimidation of being around so many rich people made her felt inferior. Her only solice was knowing that Renji is there too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DjTrizz View Post
uh...buh? source plz my old man memory is foggy
lol yeah, I just noticed that too. Byakuya never did such a thing, he only pulled strings to prevent her from being a seated officer to keep her generally safe.
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Old 2008-09-22, 09:21   Link #1217
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OMG How can anyone hate Shirley? I thought everyone loved her. Even my sister who has the exact same taste as you grew to like her.

Ok..I hated her for almost all of CG S1 and R2...except by the last episode she was in..I started to think..ok there's nothing to hate about her anymore now...but then she's a goner.
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Old 2008-09-22, 09:47   Link #1218
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
There are many things you're not taking into account. S.S. is a completely different culture altogether. I've said this dozens of times already. What Rukia and Renji went through is considered normal, just as it would be considered normal a few hundred years ago here on our very earth. Its nothing to sympathesize for.
Wow. That's a new low even for you.

By your logic the other side's argument should be "Children get abused every day. It's nothing to sympathize for."

The extent of your shipping is astounding at times.

Kubo wouldn't have bothered to illustrate how BAD life was in Rukongai in the various districts if he didn't want us to sympathize with his characters.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:18   Link #1219
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Alot of what you're saying is pure speculation. Kubo likes to show what people experience if it affects who they are. We don't know that Rukia was lonely the 5 years before she met Renji. We don't know if she was ever bullied or what not. Chances of that happening is zero. Rukia being bullied is lol, yeah right. Rukia is the bully beater since she was a 5 year old.
Just because she beats Ichigo and Renji doesn't mean she is a bully beater since 5 year-old. xDxD
They are CLOSE friends.
And let's be honest, Rukia beating Ichigo WORKS unlike Orihime's kind excuses on jumping on her own or stuff.
Quote:
You're placing Rukia on too high of a seat and not realizing all her emoness. She was better off in the slums. Once she entered the academy was when her withdrawal began, as the intimidation of being around so many rich people made her felt inferior. Her only solice was knowing that Renji is there too.
And you are placing Orihime on too high also and not realizing how she is pathetic and all but blah who am I to say that? Nobody. You don't judge arguments you insult those who say them. Which means you can't disprove ANYTHING. If all you can say is "you are biased" when the same can be applied to YOUR Orihime fandom, please don't tell me I bash. At least I bash characters not people.
What's even more weird is you say you don't bash or insult Rukia yet you babble about her having pennis or whatever it was, I was too sleepy to read the whole thing and say she is bully beater. :heh condraticting yourself or something?xD
How old are you anyway? You don't have to tell me, just askin..
Quote:
Rukia was being antisocial since she became a shinigami, she didn't try to make friends or improve herself, only sulking, until Kaein came along and beat her in the head about it. The same way Tatsuki did for Inoue. Rukia was happy again until Kaein's death, then she reverted back to being sulky and made no friends, everything being a fascade. But that was fixed after Ichigo beat it into her head that her friends are there for her.
And Orihime was SO social :heh
Kaien didn't beat it in her head. He just became her friend and we have no real proof that Rukia was anti-social, people made fun of her in Kuchiki clan as you can see from one of the chapters. Problem is, Rukia didn't become damsel in distress and is not always stuck in same situation as Orihime.

You saying Rukia didn't try making friends, then how about YOU pointed that in one chapter Orihime said I even stopped talking at school what kind of trying to improve is that?
Also, we are talking about Rukia in Kuchiki clan and Academy not before. Rukia in Kuchiki clan and Academy is NOT happy Rukia.
I'm not saying Rukia has worse past, she just handles situation better.
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Old 2008-09-22, 11:25   Link #1220
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Orihime and Rukia have both had complex and difficult pasts. Yet, Orihime's much more cheerful than Rukia, isn't she? She's actually someone I can see myself hanging out with in real life. I understand Rukia is a woman of confidence and dignity, something all women aspire to and certain men idiolize, but she's free from passion. Orihime fills in that gap for me. She brings a tasteful drama to the show which Rukia hasn't really done.
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