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View Poll Results: Death Note - Episode 37 Rating
Perfect 10 208 44.26%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 79 16.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 55 11.70%
7 out of 10 : Good 37 7.87%
6 out of 10 : Average 22 4.68%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 1.49%
4 out of 10 : Poor 10 2.13%
3 out of 10 : Bad 9 1.91%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 4 0.85%
1 out of 10 : Painful 39 8.30%
Voters: 470. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-08, 20:28   Link #421
Light_Yamagi_Kira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowSmith View Post
You have to realize it happened this way because the author wrote it that way. The real question to ask about Light is the way he was written up until that point, was his mistake plausible?
You are right! I am glad you brought this up. Hmm was Light's mistake, the ending plausible. I believe it was not a reasonable ending. This is why: Light Yamagi (Kira) was a very intelligent individual who kept his emotions in tact for the majority of the series, he also planned things out for the future and had an answer for any issues that might occur. For example, when Light wrote all them names in the Death Note for several weeks in advance just in case he was detained or became ill. Something that many people would never think of if you ask me. And as the series continued on to Near becoming Light's next issue he continued on to do what he does best - plan everything out. Which I remind everyone was perfection in reading Near and having everything work out; even Near stated this. So in these regards I don't believe it's plausible because it took Light out of character (him freaking out at the end), although a normal human reaction was still out of character.

Now I do agree the whole Mikami mistake and Near finding out about the hidden (real) death note was reasonable. It was an easy mistake and in accordance to Mikami's structured life made sense. Adding in the account that Light had no idea about this - which made Light shocked when he was told about this (not putting anything out of character). So I guess it depends on how you look at the ending, as a whole or a character break down, right. I would have loved to See Light's plan work and defeat everyone - just to see every one's face hahahaha. T.. The bad guy won... O.O.. That would have been in perfect accordance with the character yet completely against the nature of the series.
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Old 2009-03-09, 03:00   Link #422
ArrowSmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira View Post
You are right! I am glad you brought this up. Hmm was Light's mistake, the ending plausible. I believe it was not a reasonable ending. This is why: Light Yamagi (Kira) was a very intelligent individual who kept his emotions in tact for the majority of the series, he also planned things out for the future and had an answer for any issues that might occur. For example, when Light wrote all them names in the Death Note for several weeks in advance just in case he was detained or became ill. Something that many people would never think of if you ask me. And as the series continued on to Near becoming Light's next issue he continued on to do what he does best - plan everything out. Which I remind everyone was perfection in reading Near and having everything work out; even Near stated this. So in these regards I don't believe it's plausible because it took Light out of character (him freaking out at the end), although a normal human reaction was still out of character.

Now I do agree the whole Mikami mistake and Near finding out about the hidden (real) death note was reasonable. It was an easy mistake and in accordance to Mikami's structured life made sense. Adding in the account that Light had no idea about this - which made Light shocked when he was told about this (not putting anything out of character). So I guess it depends on how you look at the ending, as a whole or a character break down, right. I would have loved to See Light's plan work and defeat everyone - just to see every one's face hahahaha. T.. The bad guy won... O.O.. That would have been in perfect accordance with the character yet completely against the nature of the series.
You know this is all is fucking Rem's fault. Because the whole end-game was originally set into motion because Misa was taken into custody by L and caused a sequence of events that forced Light to give up possession of his Death Note. Even after he retook ownership when they captured Ibuchi, he never had opportunity to use the Death Note because at that point everyone knew about it and it was kept under lock.

Also another thing to consider, Light never had a chance. Because even if he beat Near and won, Ryuk would get bored in a few years and write Light's name in his notebook just to cause chaos. Remember Ryuk's primary goal is fun, not ensuring Light's reign.

Last edited by ArrowSmith; 2009-03-09 at 03:18.
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Old 2009-03-09, 09:17   Link #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUUUUUUUN! LIIIVE TOOO FLLLYYYYY
Some interesting points have been brought up in the many posts above and I really missed too much time to dwell on them all. The main thesis throughout these posts is the fact that Light made a mistake and was beaten because Near could work with other people, unlike Light who used everybody.That is a solid point, I have to agree if Light would have had more trust in his allies he would have been more successful.
Dude, it only just came up. Most of the stuff was countering what you said...

The way I see it though, Light couldn't have trusted people. You could have, I could have, Near could have, anyone else could have, but not Light. It wasn't because of the Death Note or anything, it was because he was driven beyond trust and moral understanding - he'd already thrown the principles which honour trust out the window. Hence, victory was impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYYYYY TOOOOO LIIIIVVEE
Although Light was much better than Near and L. What happen was Light could have beaten L by himself (he did) and would have beat Near if he was by himself - but he had a second L if you will (Mello) which stacked the odds.
I rest my case.

I actually find his plan to kill L more flawed than his plan to defeat Near. He made a much larger mistake there which Rem should have caught onto - by leaving L's fate up to Rem, he had put full power over everything into her hands. There was nothing stopping her from going to L behind Light's back, bargaining Misa's freedom in exchange for her co-operation, handing Light over to him. The only difference is that the moral for the L-side is that "Manipulation gets you nowhere" as opposed to 'Strength in numbers/power of teamwork'. And that we'd be less likely to get the tragic scene of Light running at the end of the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOOOOO ORRR DDDIIIIIEEEE
It's that simple, I mean by logic, Light had no idea of Mikami's move and continued his plan, reading Near to perfection. -Sigh- I will have to say L was much better than Near as many are talking about, although L's biggest flaw was he always second himself and was not very good at finding hard enough evidence
...Wait, what? I'd like if you could expand on this one a bit more.

As for Near, I think him being inferior to L was the point. Near's the backup, the successor, and his first case is tackling something that took L's life. No duh he'd have a much harder time. The idea, however, is that Near will improve; the way he thanks Mello for allowing their victory, that how only together they could surpass even L, implies that Near has learned and is going to learn from Mello for the future in order to beat the standard L had set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WON'T YOU RUUUUUNNNN! LIIIIVEE TOOO FLLLYYYYY
=plus he didn't have this perfect Giovanni... which I believe is a mistake in the series because there is no way one man in less than 24 hours could perfect a fake death note. The same hand writing... with A LOT of pages of text, no not possible.
You're forgetting one very important thing: Gevanni has balls of steel.

Speaking off-topic for a moment, I see Gevanni as a version of 'the few good men', the Task Force (excluding Light, of course), though this can be said for the entire SPK. He was willing to go the extra mile to stop Kira, understanding very clearly that the probability of him dying at any moment was considerably high. That's not a show of ruthless calculation or arrogance like we see from Light, that's freakin' guts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLLLLYYYY TOOOO LIIIIIVVVEEE
Not counting Mikami is a well-educated individual who was checking the notebook every night. AND, even when he brought the real Death Note would he not notice something then. Nevertheless, it was evident that Light had to lose at the end, Near deducted the situation correctly and got lucky that Mikami went out of routine.


We've been over this already, all of it. It was in that post of mine on the previous page which you seem to have ignored. Please, do not make me repeat myself.

Quote:
Nevertheless, it was evident that Light had to lose at the end, Near deducted the situation correctly and got lucky that Mikami went out of routine.


Again, I've tried to cover this. Near did not "get lucky", it was all thanks to Mello. If you disagree, please check the previous page regarding this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAACCCEEESSS HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGHHHHH!!
Also.. that Light lost his nerve and did not wait until he was in the back of the police care to use that little piece of paper to write Near and whom ever else's name down he wanted.
It was over for him no matter what.

They knew he had pieces of the Death Note, they had two cars and eight people combined from the SPK and Task Force. If we move three into the first car for Mikami, and subtract two for driving each car, we can have as many as four people watching Light. Right next to him, from in front of him, and probably behind him too. They probably would have called ahead to the local police department to have announced they had arrested Kira and were bringing him in for confinement, and in that way had many more police cars following him in. It's also valid in possibility/probability that Near or an official might have Light searched and take the watch.

Even if Light did kill Near or someone in the station, it'd be too late. They still had all the proof they needed to convict him. In fact, without Near around to vouch for incarceration, it's likely he'd have received the death penalty. Either way, Light would have only one shot - the only sense in using it on Near would be out of spite (which is all Light may have ever had on a deeper level). And without any pieces of the Death Note for Light to use after the one-shot, Ryuk gets bored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Epic Guitar solo*
Also, Light was not inexperienced, lol, that is irrelevant to anything, he had six years of experience - he was fine.
Happily agreed. If anything, Near and Mello were at a disadvantage in experience - this was their first case, after all. :V

Last edited by Nevflinn; 2009-03-09 at 10:52.
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Old 2009-03-09, 12:27   Link #424
_B_
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Quote:
Some interesting points have been brought up in the many posts above and I really missed too much time to dwell on them all.
Ah come on Light#1 you have to do better than that, go back read the past posts and get in on these arguments, I know I will be.


Now I would have loved to continue on with your post Light, but Nevflinn is it? But he beat me to it and did a swell job, I can't wait to see you try and talk your way out of this one. What I find interesting in all this is the fact that we concluded that Light made a mistake, and because of Mello loss, concluding Light/Kira had no way out at all. Nev actually brings up that great idea of all the police cars and searching Light, great point! Light#1, I challenge you to answer the questions above in Nev's post on top of clarifying to me on your latest post about the ending. How would Light winning be really all that accordance with his nature? If this is the case than shouldn't Hitler have won in WWII?
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Old 2009-03-09, 13:49   Link #425
Sinfully Naomi
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Originally Posted by ArrowSmith View Post
You know this is all is fucking Rem's fault. Because the whole end-game was originally set into motion because Misa was taken into custody by L and caused a sequence of events that forced Light to give up possession of his Death Note. Even after he retook ownership when they captured Ibuchi, he never had opportunity to use the Death Note because at that point everyone knew about it and it was kept under lock.

Also another thing to consider, Light never had a chance. Because even if he beat Near and won, Ryuk would get bored in a few years and write Light's name in his notebook just to cause chaos. Remember Ryuk's primary goal is fun, not ensuring Light's reign.
I thought his anme was Higuchi.

There wasn't really a sequence of events that made him give up the Death Note, he planned the entire thing out, to remove both Rem and L from the picture. In that, you never really even explained how ti was Rem's fault.

I doubt that would've been the case if Light won against Near. I'm sure Ryuk would left Ligth alone, seeing as Light would've been free from everything, and would've been able to give Ryuk all the apples he could ever wish for.
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Old 2009-03-09, 14:10   Link #426
ArrowSmith
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Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi View Post
I thought his anme was Higuchi.

There wasn't really a sequence of events that made him give up the Death Note, he planned the entire thing out, to remove both Rem and L from the picture. In that, you never really even explained how ti was Rem's fault.

I doubt that would've been the case if Light won against Near. I'm sure Ryuk would left Ligth alone, seeing as Light would've been free from everything, and would've been able to give Ryuk all the apples he could ever wish for.
You think unlimited apples would buy Ryuk off forever?
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Old 2009-03-09, 21:09   Link #427
Sinfully Naomi
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No, but it may have been longer than you stated before. XP
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Old 2009-03-13, 23:44   Link #428
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eh it wasnt as good as i thought it would be
but it was ok i guess
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Old 2009-03-14, 09:05   Link #429
Sinfully Naomi
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Care to elaborate on that?
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Old 2009-03-23, 17:56   Link #430
Nevflinn
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Originally Posted by _B_ View Post
Ah come on Light#1 you have to do better than that, go back read the past posts and get in on these arguments, I know I will be.


Now I would have loved to continue on with your post Light, but Nevflinn is it? But he beat me to it and did a swell job, I can't wait to see you try and talk your way out of this one. What I find interesting in all this is the fact that we concluded that Light made a mistake, and because of Mello loss, concluding Light/Kira had no way out at all. Nev actually brings up that great idea of all the police cars and searching Light, great point! Light#1, I challenge you to answer the questions above in Nev's post on top of clarifying to me on your latest post about the ending. How would Light winning be really all that accordance with his nature? If this is the case than shouldn't Hitler have won in WWII?
High-five. o/

Given that it's been over three weeks since either him and I have posted in the thread and he has not yet given a response, I am left to assume that he simply lacks any counter-arguments and instead agrees with me. Any problems?

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Originally Posted by Sinfully Naomi View Post
Care to elaborate on that?
Given that this is an anime forum, you'd be lucky if someone did. :V
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Old 2009-06-08, 18:51   Link #431
Light-Yagami-Kira
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Originally Posted by ArrowSmith View Post
You know this is all is fucking Rem's fault. Because the whole end-game was originally set into motion because Misa was taken into custody by L and caused a sequence of events that forced Light to give up possession of his Death Note. Even after he retook ownership when they captured Ibuchi, he never had opportunity to use the Death Note because at that point everyone knew about it and it was kept under lock.

Also another thing to consider, Light never had a chance. Because even if he beat Near and won, Ryuk would get bored in a few years and write Light's name in his notebook just to cause chaos. Remember Ryuk's primary goal is fun, not ensuring Light's reign.
Not necessarily. Light's original plan was to be confined after losing all memory of the Death Note. He planned this beforehand in order to knock all leftover spectulation from L off from him. Misa's Death Note was buried, while he handed his over to Rem to give to Higuchi. The killing of murderers had to continue in order for Light's confinement plan to work efficiently. Light had two plans. A Plan (A) and a Plan (B).

Plan (A) was to have Misa recover her Death Note again (the one buried), make the Shinigami Eye Trade with Ryuk, and write down L's "real name" in the Death Note.

Plan (B) was to have Rem kill L if Misa wasn't able to remember L's real name. Light had already anticipated that the chances of Misa forgetting L's real name was highly plausable; and, therefore, would arrange it that Rem had no other alternative than to save Misa due to the fact that her lifespan was cut for the second time.

The arguement is, if it was Rem's fault, then we would have to conclude that Light fluked out. But that's not in accordance to what happened at all. Light knew exactly what to do. Rem told Light that she developed feelings for Misa, and that is how he was able to counter her "death threat" against him and line up the plan to put her in a position where she would have to sacrifice herself for Misa's sake.

But it really didn't matter at all what Plan worked out. Whether Misa wrote down L's real name or whether Rem did, Rem still would have died, because Light arranged it so that Misa's lifespan would be cut for the second time, as stated; and in order to save her life and allow her to live a longer - happier life - with Light, Rem would be forced to write L's real name in her Death Note in order to increase Misa's lifespan. Rem wouldn't write down Light's name because that would not make Misa happy.

And about Ryuk becoming bored with Light and writing his name down in his Death Note, I have to disagree with you. Ryuk was all about being entertained; therefore, if Light was actually able to retrieve the Death Note from Near and kill him with it, there would be no point for Ryuk to kill him; neither would there be any reason for him to be bored. Seeing how the Creation of a New World would be just beyond the horizon.
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Old 2009-06-09, 21:14   Link #432
outcast_within
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I thought this was going to be a great anime.
I watched with too high expectations. This anime had lots of potential but somehow didn't make it through.
Needed more ryuk.
The other shinigami rem, she already knew she was being manipulated by light, she had time to think of something else, and she doesn't seem very dumb as well. Bit of a shame she roll over and died.
Why do they show so many rules of death note and not even use them storywise. Those rules would have been great bases for drama's.
Also misa misa, her life span was cut down twice, do something dramatic with that. Have her die at childbirth.
And the ending, all of it concluded on that guy fukking up. And light turns into a shamefull pussy, i wished more for him.
And what's with the i'm going to be god thing. Be a god already, first he sees light as an obstacle, gets rid of it and on top of that he gets the L position. Five years later meh not much changed besides that they tell you episodes later crime and war dropped. Than mello and n come and oh he needs to kill them as well before he will be god. Guess what even if he won i'm betting he'd be busy all his life getting rid of kello's and v's from orphanages all around the world
I wonder if the manga is any different. cos for me the show went from amazing to fun but far from perfect quickly after they introduced the 2nd kira.
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Old 2009-06-13, 17:09   Link #433
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Well there's not much to say about the ending.
I expected the anime to end that way, but I think it could be done nicer.
The characters grew on the series, and changed completely. Almost all of them died aswell.
The only thing I have big complains is the way Light died.
The scene when he walks past his old self, show's his regrets of what he has done.
I would prefer him diyng in the end proudly, scared but decided. In the beginning he knew the aftereffects of using the note. Maybe I'm expecting to much, but that's the way I feel.

Why didn't he beg Ryuk, to kill them all
By giving him back the note, keeping some pages and offering him some apples.. I guess this don't refuse the "forgetting" effect of passing the note though..Nevermind.

Great anime, well done.

Isn't Near a little brat?
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Old 2009-06-13, 18:28   Link #434
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Originally Posted by ArrowSmith View Post
You know this is all is fucking Rem's fault. Because the whole end-game was originally set into motion because Misa was taken into custody by L and caused a sequence of events that forced Light to give up possession of his Death Note. Even after he retook ownership when they captured Ibuchi, he never had opportunity to use the Death Note because at that point everyone knew about it and it was kept under lock.

Also another thing to consider, Light never had a chance. Because even if he beat Near and won, Ryuk would get bored in a few years and write Light's name in his notebook just to cause chaos. Remember Ryuk's primary goal is fun, not ensuring Light's reign.

No, you're just wrong all together, nice try, please try again. Instead of wasting time, here's something for you. Ryuk, spent 6+ years with Light, day in and day out. Don't you think by common sense if Ryuk was getting bored he would after the first year or two? Just a thought. Also, guess what! you're so right! Ryuk's primary goal was to have fun! You answered it! Was the Death World fun? Rhetorical question... So it looks like Light/Kira was not "screwed" if he beats Near, he wins and continues to rain. I am sure with all the apples and mind games Light has, Ryuk would be fine.

Quote:
The way I see it though, Light couldn't have trusted people. You could have, I could have, Near could have, anyone else could have, but not Light. It wasn't because of the Death Note or anything, it was because he was driven beyond trust and moral understanding - he'd already thrown the principles which honour trust out the window. Hence, victory was impossible.
Sorry for the delay Nev, I've been busy! Right off the bat, I think your point is a fair one to make, however, I think you are misunderstanding the word trust? Obviously if Light did not put trust into Mikami, Misa, Rem, Ryku then guess what, they would have NEVER BEEN PART OF THE SERIES; pawn or not, he had to have some trust into them.



Quote:
I rest my case.

I actually find his plan to kill L more flawed than his plan to defeat Near. He made a much larger mistake there which Rem should have caught onto - by leaving L's fate up to Rem, he had put full power over everything into her hands. There was nothing stopping her from going to L behind Light's back, bargaining Misa's freedom in exchange for her co-operation, handing Light over to him. The only difference is that the moral for the L-side is that "Manipulation gets you nowhere" as opposed to 'Strength in numbers/power of teamwork'. And that we'd be less likely to get the tragic scene of Light running at the end of the show.
Nev Nev Nev, you're just going on now... what if what if what if. Come on, for you to even say something like "Manipulation gets you nowhere" just shows where your logic is coming from.

Quote:
...Wait, what? I'd like if you could expand on this one a bit more.

As for Near, I think him being inferior to L was the point. Near's the backup, the successor, and his first case is tackling something that took L's life. No duh he'd have a much harder time. The idea, however, is that Near will improve; the way he thanks Mello for allowing their victory, that how only together they could surpass even L, implies that Near has learned and is going to learn from Mello for the future in order to beat the standard L had set.
Alright, this is well stated I guess...


Quote:
You're forgetting one very important thing: Gevanni has balls of steel.
And you're forgetting a very important thing; Gevanni was way to obvious in his following of Mikami, and also, he was much too lucky, because he was not killed, and two Mikami made an honest mistake, so Gevanni jumped on it.

Quote:
Speaking off-topic for a moment, I see Gevanni as a version of 'the few good men', the Task Force (excluding Light, of course), though this can be said for the entire SPK. He was willing to go the extra mile to stop Kira, understanding very clearly that the probability of him dying at any moment was considerably high. That's not a show of ruthless calculation or arrogance like we see from Light, that's freakin' guts.
Yes, you're right, but the problem is he was playing Light's game through the whole thing. The only reason he looks like a rock star is because Mikami didn't follow orders - plain and simple.



Quote:
They knew he had pieces of the Death Note, they had two cars and eight people combined from the SPK and Task Force. If we move three into the first car for Mikami, and subtract two for driving each car, we can have as many as four people watching Light. Right next to him, from in front of him, and probably behind him too. They probably would have called ahead to the local police department to have announced they had arrested Kira and were bringing him in for confinement, and in that way had many more police cars following him in. It's also valid in possibility/probability that Near or an official might have Light searched and take the watch.

Even if Light did kill Near or someone in the station, it'd be too late. They still had all the proof they needed to convict him. In fact, without Near around to vouch for incarceration, it's likely he'd have received the death penalty. Either way, Light would have only one shot - the only sense in using it on Near would be out of spite (which is all Light may have ever had on a deeper level). And without any pieces of the Death Note for Light to use after the one-shot, Ryuk gets bored.


Happily agreed. If anything, Near and Mello were at a disadvantage in experience - this was their first case, after all.
This is plausbile, but pure speculation, I believe Light2 came out with a very compelling reasoning behind this, check that out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by _B_ View Post
Ah come on Light#1 you have to do better than that, go back read the past posts and get in on these arguments, I know I will be.


Now I would have loved to continue on with your post Light, but Nevflinn is it? But he beat me to it and did a swell job, I can't wait to see you try and talk your way out of this one. What I find interesting in all this is the fact that we concluded that Light made a mistake, and because of Mello loss, concluding Light/Kira had no way out at all. Nev actually brings up that great idea of all the police cars and searching Light, great point! Light#1, I challenge you to answer the questions above in Nev's post on top of clarifying to me on your latest post about the ending. How would Light winning be really all that accordance with his nature? If this is the case than shouldn't Hitler have won in WWII?
You're a tool, B, come back and fight for yourself, Nev will be lucky to keep up with me, you'll need to fight for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevflinn View Post
High-five. o/

Given that it's been over three weeks since either him and I have posted in the thread and he has not yet given a response, I am left to assume that he simply lacks any counter-arguments and instead agrees with me. Any problems?



Given that this is an anime forum, you'd be lucky if someone did. :V
Sorry.... I've been busy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light-Yagami-Kira View Post
Not necessarily. Light's original plan was to be confined after losing all memory of the Death Note. He planned this beforehand in order to knock all leftover spectulation from L off from him. Misa's Death Note was buried, while he handed his over to Rem to give to Higuchi. The killing of murderers had to continue in order for Light's confinement plan to work efficiently. Light had two plans. A Plan (A) and a Plan (B).

Plan (A) was to have Misa recover her Death Note again (the one buried), make the Shinigami Eye Trade with Ryuk, and write down L's "real name" in the Death Note.

Plan (B) was to have Rem kill L if Misa wasn't able to remember L's real name. Light had already anticipated that the chances of Misa forgetting L's real name was highly plausable; and, therefore, would arrange it that Rem had no other alternative than to save Misa due to the fact that her lifespan was cut for the second time.

The arguement is, if it was Rem's fault, then we would have to conclude that Light fluked out. But that's not in accordance to what happened at all. Light knew exactly what to do. Rem told Light that she developed feelings for Misa, and that is how he was able to counter her "death threat" against him and line up the plan to put her in a position where she would have to sacrifice herself for Misa's sake.

But it really didn't matter at all what Plan worked out. Whether Misa wrote down L's real name or whether Rem did, Rem still would have died, because Light arranged it so that Misa's lifespan would be cut for the second time, as stated; and in order to save her life and allow her to live a longer - happier life - with Light, Rem would be forced to write L's real name in her Death Note in order to increase Misa's lifespan. Rem wouldn't write down Light's name because that would not make Misa happy.

And about Ryuk becoming bored with Light and writing his name down in his Death Note, I have to disagree with you. Ryuk was all about being entertained; therefore, if Light was actually able to retrieve the Death Note from Near and kill him with it, there would be no point for Ryuk to kill him; neither would there be any reason for him to be bored. Seeing how the Creation of a New World would be just beyond the horizon.
Thanks! This is what I meant Nev. - Also, Sin, I don't see too many grammar problems in here, one or two spelling errors and that's about it. So what are you even doing going on about grammar problems... We're all not perfect NOT EVEN ME.




Light1 is back, for now, so bring the heat, I'm not impressed by anyone of you, you're logic is very flawed and your idea's/opinions are worthless and defy logic, lol. Thanks for the hate and I welcome any challengers, try and get this topic back heated.



----You're truly, Light1 or Light Yamagi.
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Old 2009-06-14, 14:39   Link #435
Nevflinn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOVE IN TO FIRE AT THE MAINSTREAM OF BOMBERS
Sorry for the delay Nev, I've been busy! Right off the bat, I think your point is a fair one to make, however, I think you are misunderstanding the word trust? Obviously if Light did not put trust into Mikami, Misa, Rem, Ryku then guess what, they would have NEVER BEEN PART OF THE SERIES; pawn or not, he had to have some trust into them.
You see, this enters an important question of what trust actually is.

Trust between friends applies to anyone you know, be it friend, family or loved ones, or people you respect and have principles they hold highly. This transcends any petty materialistic values or common goals, this is based on pure support, respect and care between two or more people. For instance, Friend X has no need to worry about Friend Y being bribed by the Big Bad for $1,000,000 so that Friend Y would turn against him; not because Friend X thinks Friend Y would find that amount of money laughable, but because he knows that Friend Y would never betray him no matter what. This is the trust that you find among good people who get along with each other, have good virtues, and have a common goal they won't betray.

That's the trust L holds in the Task Force, that Near holds in the SPK. That's probably not the trust Mello holds in his mafia acquaintances - they're out for nothing but profit and are perfectly willing to kill each other over it. That is definitely not what Light displays to the people around him. Light manipulates Rem into a situation she feels she cannot win in so that L will die, thus forcing compliance. Light uses Misa like a tool for whatever he deems necessary. Light doesn't trust Ryuk at all for anything beyond a good conversation - Ryuk doesn't actually do anything particularly extraordinary, he's just in it for the lulz watching from the sidelines. Light can trust Mikami, for Mikami is reliable, believes in his cause and - surprisingly, coming from a person both on the villains' side and potentially insane - honest. However, Light does not trust him at all, and instead uses him as a pawn. He is so confused by Mikami's level of understand and devotion to Kira's cause that he even considers killing him once he's outlived his usefulness. Because of this master-and-servant attitude, Light does not place proper faith in him to help.

The greatest degree of 'trust' Light shows in someone is giving Mikami the Death Note: and even then, Light remains in full control. He gives orders to Mikami which he follows to the letter. Mikami is not allowed to make any mental or psychological contribution to what should have been a team - he's but a puppet to Light, a mere pawn to be moved around the battlefield to protect the King. Besides, Light was just waiting for the battle with Near to end so he could get back the Death Note.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET OFF A SHARP BURST AND THEN TURN AWAY
Nev Nev Nev, you're just going on now... what if what if what if. Come on, for you to even say something like "Manipulation gets you nowhere" just shows where your logic is coming from.
wut

Ehm...sorry, I can definitely tell you disagree with what I said; just not why. Are you trying to hear a conclusion, or have you just gotten bored and decided you'd have more fun trolling? :V



Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLL OVER, SPIN ROUND TO COME IN BEHIND THEM
Alright, this is well stated I guess...
Holy shit, someone actually admitted the other guy had a point in an argument. ON THE INTERNET.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MOVE TO THEIR BLIND SIDES AND FIRE IN AGAIN
And you're forgetting a very important thing; Gevanni was way to obvious in his following of Mikami, and also, he was much too lucky, because he was not killed, and two Mikami made an honest mistake, so Gevanni jumped on it.
Wait, he was obvious? How was that the case?

If you're referring to how Mikami was able to verify that the Death Note had been tampered with, there are two important things to remember there:

#1: Mikami didn't inspect the Death Note because he suspected he was being followed, he inspected it because Light told him to. Light anticipated the possibility that Near would try and tamper with the notebook; he didn't know for sure until Mikami told him on the phone that the book had been altered. Gevanni didn't give himself away; Light didn't know Gevanni was there, he just had a hunch that someone was there.

#2: If Gevanni had died, Near would have known Light was behind it. Therefore, Near would have known Light had caught onto him and changed his strategy completely - thus ruining his own plan completely.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BANDITS AT 8 O'CLOCK MOVE IN BEHIND US
Yes, you're right, but the problem is he was playing Light's game through the whole thing. The only reason he looks like a rock star is because Mikami didn't follow orders - plain and simple.
You mean because Mello finally sided with Near. :V

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEN ME-109s OUT OF THE SUN
This is plausbile, but pure speculation, I believe Light2 came out with a very compelling reasoning behind this, check that out.
Your claim is complete speculation - the only difference is that yours is actually implausible.

The other Light had something on it? I've looked over the entire thread and haven't seen anything on it: can you repost it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCENDING AND TURNING OUR SPITFIRES TO FACE THEM
You're a tool, B, come back and fight for yourself, Nev will be lucky to keep up with me, you'll need to fight for yourself.
Ego, much? :V
And I wouldn't waste my time taunting B if I were you, he hasn't been on since forever. The only few posts he made were the two about you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HEADING STRAIGHT FOR THEM I PRESS FOR MY GUNS
Sorry.... I've been busy...
No problem: I've been in my exam year since September myself, I've had it busy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLING, TURNING, DIVING
Thanks! This is what I meant Nev.
And a very valid argument it is, that Light made. Still, I'll be honest: it doesn't ring right with me. Since from this angle, it all comes down to Rem's relationship with Misa - what kind of love was it? Did Rem truly understand and adore Misa for who she was, or was she just being the obliged chaperone for a spoiled brat, compelled by the wishes of a now-gone friend? I think that's where the judgement for the plausibility of Rem's actions lie.

If I were Rem, and I truly loved Misa in an honest love like a mother to a daughter, then I'd want her life to be good - that is very different from smothering her, spoiling her or simply making her happy. Misa wasn't in love with Light so much as she was obsessed with him; she didn't know who Light was at all or if he even deserved her devotion and care, all she knew was that he did one thing which just so happened to be in her favour. That's not what actual love is: Misa was just setting herself up to be abused and ruined by Light.

So leaving Misa under Light's watch without Rem is all but guaranteeing that she'll die - if you disagree, please recall how Light told himself that he'd discard Misa once he was done with her, in their very first meeting. With Misa's concern in mind, I'd have bargained with L for Misa's safety in exchange for Light's reveal and arrest, whilst at the same time keeping Misa confined (so she doesn't try anything stupid). Given a firm yet loving talking and much time later - or perhaps, a year or more of psychology - and Misa will hopefully have recovered.

Though if the condition is in the latter, then Rem's love for Misa isn't just unappreciated - it's as superficial as Misa's love for Light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLING, TURNING, DIVING
Also, Sin, I don't see too many grammar problems in here, one or two spelling errors and that's about it. So what are you even doing going on about grammar problems...
As a friendly tip, you abuse commas far too often. Feel free to use semi colons, colons and dashes to extend your sentences and give them an appropriate tone - much like you'd talk as if you were actually speaking to them in person. Seriously: symbols are your friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOING IN AGAI--wait, whaddya mean I'm out of quote space? :(
We're all not perfect NOT EVEN ME.
You can say that again. :V
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Old 2009-06-14, 19:13   Link #436
Light_Yamagi_Kira
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Quote:
You see, this enters an important question of what trust actually is.

Trust between friends applies to anyone you know, be it friend, family or loved ones, or people you respect and have principles they hold highly. This transcends any petty materialistic values or common goals, this is based on pure support, respect and care between two or more people. For instance, Friend X has no need to worry about Friend Y being bribed by the Big Bad for $1,000,000 so that Friend Y would turn against him; not because Friend X thinks Friend Y would find that amount of money laughable, but because he knows that Friend Y would never betray him no matter what. This is the trust that you find among good people who get along with each other, have good virtues, and have a common goal they won't betray.

That's the trust L holds in the Task Force, that Near holds in the SPK. That's probably not the trust Mello holds in his mafia acquaintances - they're out for nothing but profit and are perfectly willing to kill each other over it. That is definitely not what Light displays to the people around him. Light manipulates Rem into a situation she feels she cannot win in so that L will die, thus forcing compliance. Light uses Misa like a tool for whatever he deems necessary. Light doesn't trust Ryuk at all for anything beyond a good conversation - Ryuk doesn't actually do anything particularly extraordinary, he's just in it for the lulz watching from the sidelines. Light can trust Mikami, for Mikami is reliable, believes in his cause and - surprisingly, coming from a person both on the villains' side and potentially insane - honest. However, Light does not trust him at all, and instead uses him as a pawn. He is so confused by Mikami's level of understand and devotion to Kira's cause that he even considers killing him once he's outlived his usefulness. Because of this master-and-servant attitude, Light does not place proper faith in him to help.

The greatest degree of 'trust' Light shows in someone is giving Mikami the Death Note: and even then, Light remains in full control. He gives orders to Mikami which he follows to the letter. Mikami is not allowed to make any mental or psychological contribution to what should have been a team - he's but a puppet to Light, a mere pawn to be moved around the battlefield to protect the King. Besides, Light was just waiting for the battle with Near to end so he could get back the Death Note.

Now I believe you're discussing a very conservative outlook on trust and what trust represents between two or more individuals. Good and virtues people are not the only people who represent trust - if you believes this then you should look at the world more closely. A band of criminals, bank robbers must all work together, and have some type of mutual trust in order to be successful; I believe Socrates speaks about this in his Republic in regard to "What is Justice". However, Nev, what if you take police officers, partners who MUST trust each other in life or death situations - they may not be "loving friends," you of all people can see this.

What Light was doing was obviously the most logical process, don't you agree? Obviously Kira was not going to have a bunch of "trust worthy" allies around, I mean if you were Kira would you feel comfortable not having full power and control of your goals and plans? Again, in the series, on topic you must realize Light did not need or want to trust Misa, Rem, Mikami, or anyone for that matter - like you said he treated them as pawns. Nevertheless he did in fact show some trust into them because if he did not he would have lost the battle a long time ago. Actually if you think about it the only reason Light/Kira lost was because of trust. "YOU IDIOT! I told you not to take the Death Note out until today." Remember that? Funny, I would have "trust" issues too if I knew other peoples incompetency would lead to my fall.

So do not through trust out the window, my friend, Light did have trust in of all people Mikami, and the simple proof of this is that he failed at the end. Light put too much trust into Mikami hoping he would follow orders and do as told - yes master/slave, but guess what it was working quite well and would have continued to work(speculation) if Mikami wasn't a totally idiot and had some self-awareness. [/QUOTE]

Quote:
wut

Ehm...sorry, I can definitely tell you disagree with what I said; just not why. Are you trying to hear a conclusion, or have you just gotten bored and decided you'd have more fun trolling? :V
Trolling? Nev am I not on topic here? Or are you just avoiding my claim? I would love to hear a conclusion, maybe then I could find your logic behind it. Thanks!

Quote:
Holy shit, someone actually admitted the other guy had a point in an argument. ON THE INTERNET.
Listen, I can tell by your statement that you don't get these a lot. You earned it champ, good work!


Quote:
Wait, he was obvious? How was that the case?

If you're referring to how Mikami was able to verify that the Death Note had been tampered with, there are two important things to remember there:

#1: Mikami didn't inspect the Death Note because he suspected he was being followed, he inspected it because Light told him to. Light anticipated the possibility that Near would try and tamper with the notebook; he didn't know for sure until Mikami told him on the phone that the book had been altered. Gevanni didn't give himself away; Light didn't know Gevanni was there, he just had a hunch that someone was there.

#2: If Gevanni had died, Near would have known Light was behind it. Therefore, Near would have known Light had caught onto him and changed his strategy completely - thus ruining his own plan completely.
Well, I do like your reasoning behind this and I agree with both your statements. However, I believe you misunderstood me because Light did in fact predict Near would have Mikami followed, so in that case Gevanni was obvious. He just got lucky because Mikami, again, is an idiot.

Quote:
You mean because Mello finally sided with Near. :V
Mello never really sided with Near did he?


Quote:
Your claim is complete speculation - the only difference is that yours is actually implausible.
Really? I was hoping you'd actually make this more your thesis, ah well you failed me again. How is my claim implausible? If you're going to make such claims you will need some support. You should know this, please don't act ignorant to an argument.

Quote:
The other Light had something on it? I've looked over the entire thread and haven't seen anything on it: can you re post it?
Wow, you missed the big red font post Light2 made? Double look through this thread.

Quote:
Ego, much? :V
And I wouldn't waste my time taunting B if I were you, he hasn't been on since forever. The only few posts he made were the two about you.
What Ego? I asked B, to fight for himself, and to come back (if he still watches these forums). I think you need to look up the definition of "ego" lol?


Quote:
No problem: I've been in my exam year since September myself, I've had it busy.
Cool? Sarcasm? Or mockery?




Quote:
And a very valid argument it is, that Light made. Still, I'll be honest: it doesn't ring right with me. Since from this angle, it all comes down to Rem's relationship with Misa - what kind of love was it? Did Rem truly understand and adore Misa for who she was, or was she just being the obliged chaperone for a spoiled brat, compelled by the wishes of a now-gone friend? I think that's where the judgement for the plausibility of Rem's actions lie.

If I were Rem, and I truly loved Misa in an honest love like a mother to a daughter, then I'd want her life to be good - that is very different from smothering her, spoiling her or simply making her happy. Misa wasn't in love with Light so much as she was obsessed with him; she didn't know who Light was at all or if he even deserved her devotion and care, all she knew was that he did one thing which just so happened to be in her favour. That's not what actual love is: Misa was just setting herself up to be abused and ruined by Light.

So leaving Misa under Light's watch without Rem is all but guaranteeing that she'll die - if you disagree, please recall how Light told himself that he'd discard Misa once he was done with her, in their very first meeting. With Misa's concern in mind, I'd have bargained with L for Misa's safety in exchange for Light's reveal and arrest, whilst at the same time keeping Misa confined (so she doesn't try anything stupid). Given a firm yet loving talking and much time later - or perhaps, a year or more of psychology - and Misa will hopefully have recovered.

Though if the condition is in the latter, then Rem's love for Misa isn't just unappreciated - it's as superficial as Misa's love for Light.
At least we share the same modest nature....Oh yeah, it's nice if you stay to one side in an argument, I don't need you flipping and flopping around and starting to commit the straw man fallacy now.


Quote:
As a friendly tip, you abuse commas far too often. Feel free to use semi colons, colons and dashes to extend your sentences and give them an appropriate tone - much like you'd talk as if you were actually speaking to them in person. Seriously: symbols are your friends.
Ah, just as planned, I knew you would commit this error and set yourself up for this one. Thanks champ! Now, obviously you haven't taken all too many English in Post-Secondary, right? You seem more like a Psychology/Soc Major to me. Trying for a minor in English? Anyways, a friendly tip you can never use enough commas, semicolons, or dashes. A comma is just a break between a sentence, it helps you create longer sentences without them being run-on sentences. I am shocked that your English Prof never mentioned this to you!! Where you sleeping in class Nev!? Also, you're wrong in the fact that you should type the way you speak to people - because 80% of the type it would be slang, run on and the reader would probably be offended on the ground that they think the author is insulting their intelligence. - Hey, Nev, guess what? This wasn't even directed to you!!!!! So why even bother commenting on my posts to Sin, and B? I mean I am sure you have enough to handle when I direct something to you. No need to get involved with other conversations going on. Thanks


Quote:
You can say that again. :V
No, sorry.
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Old 2009-06-18, 07:46   Link #437
Nevflinn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Yamagi_Kira View Post
Now I believe you're discussing a very conservative outlook on trust and what trust represents between two or more individuals. Good and virtues people are not the only people who represent trust - if you believes this then you should look at the world more closely. A band of criminals, bank robbers must all work together, and have some type of mutual trust in order to be successful; I believe Socrates speaks about this in his Republic in regard to "What is Justice". However, Nev, what if you take police officers, partners who MUST trust each other in life or death situations - they may not be "loving friends," you of all people can see this.

What Light was doing was obviously the most logical process, don't you agree? Obviously Kira was not going to have a bunch of "trust worthy" allies around, I mean if you were Kira would you feel comfortable not having full power and control of your goals and plans? Again, in the series, on topic you must realize Light did not need or want to trust Misa, Rem, Mikami, or anyone for that matter - like you said he treated them as pawns. Nevertheless he did in fact show some trust into them because if he did not he would have lost the battle a long time ago. Actually if you think about it the only reason Light/Kira lost was because of trust. "YOU IDIOT! I told you not to take the Death Note out until today." Remember that? Funny, I would have "trust" issues too if I knew other peoples incompetency would lead to my fall.

So do not through trust out the window, my friend, Light did have trust in of all people Mikami, and the simple proof of this is that he failed at the end. Light put too much trust into Mikami hoping he would follow orders and do as told - yes master/slave, but guess what it was working quite well and would have continued to work(speculation) if Mikami wasn't a totally idiot and had some self-awareness.
If I were Kira, one of my primary objectives would have been to find as many reliable allies as I could once the time was right. If I felt uncomfortable about respecting people to work with me on even footing, that'd probably be because I'd have become an arrogant, self-conceited idiot.

I'm not saying other people don't trust each other, I'm saying Light didn't trust people. What he did and always relied on was manipulation; lying like a dog, pushing people into submission, and mentally pushing people into corners were his prime tactics. He forced compliance from everyone he pulled, whether they felt it or not. Nobody was on equal terms with him, as he called all the shots. His desires and objectives, and his life alone were all that mattered, nobody else's.

When Near backed Light into a corner, Light's only means of escape was, indeed, in finding someone he could trust. This was not how Light viewed it, though: he thought he could still continue manipulating and making it all about him, through personal flaws of his own. If Light trusted Mikami, he'd have worked much closer with him (it was possible for them to communicate that much) and informed him of his precautions like the watch scrap - but he didn't. Instead, Light tried to manipulate Mikami when he needed to move on to trusting someone, and Mikami was the perfect person for Light to put trust in; he could have worked rationally well with him had Light allowed him to. But he didn't, and couldn't, because this would have meant putting someone on equal territory as himself. If Mikami's trust had been returned, had they co-operated fairly, Light may not have died. Do you see what I mean?


Quote:
Trolling? Nev am I not on topic here? Or are you just avoiding my claim? I would love to hear a conclusion, maybe then I could find your logic behind it. Thanks!
I was hoping to hear what exactly your conclusion was, to be honest. I made a point, then you...didn't actually address it, and then I asked what was going on. So let me be clear here if I wasn't before: what were you trying to say with your reply there?


Quote:
Well, I do like your reasoning behind this and I agree with both your statements. However, I believe you misunderstood me because Light did in fact predict Near would have Mikami followed, so in that case Gevanni was obvious. He just got lucky because Mikami, again, is an idiot.
...When you say Mikami is an idiot, I assume it is because of your insistence that it is actually his fault that Light lost, correct?

In which case,



For the second time, we've been over this already. I've discussed it and given an argument on it. You have not addressed it since; thus, I assume you have no argument against it and instead concede it. It was not Mikami's fault.

Quote:
Mello never really sided with Near did he?
Erm, yes he did. He totally did. I don't think any discussion here's needed.


Quote:
Really? I was hoping you'd actually make this more your thesis, ah well you failed me again. How is my claim implausible? If you're going to make such claims you will need some support. You should know this, please don't act ignorant to an argument.
Well your claim is that Light would have won if he had followed the scenario you and the other Light outlined - which, no matter how you look at it, is purely hypothetical. I argued on that same ground why such events wouldn't work out...and you counter by saying my argument is purely hypothetical.

Mind explaining that one for me, please?


Quote:
Wow, you missed the big red font post Light2 made? Double look through this thread.
Ah yes, that one. That post was part of what I was referring to at the start. Just to clarify, it's this one, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dim Yagami
Light Yagami could have killed the Japanese Task Force, the SPK agents, and Near even after being handcuffed and seated in the back seat of one of the agent's police cars. But only if he had of kept the piece of Death Note paper in his watch until then. Assuming that the Death Note paper wasn't very big, I'm sure we can all agree that Light would be able to at least write down three names, if he wrote the names very small. I was thinking about this idea the other day, and it makes a lot of sense to me. Light was given the names of all the SPK agents when Near carelessly showed him all the names that were written in the fake Death Note Mikami used. With Light's photographic memory, he would have been able to retain the memory of the names in his head. But he would have to make sure that he wrote down the names of the right three, one of them would have to be Near to cause a diversion.

My thought was initially this.

Light would write down the names of the two SPK agent's that are in the police car with him. (Assuming that there would be two of them in the police car with him), and writes down Near's name. While the rest of the SPK agent's attend to Near's sudden death from a heart attack, Light uncuff's himself, takes a gun from one of the dead agent's in the car with him, casually walks up to the agent's attending to Near, and shoots them in the back of the head. The Death Note is then officially back in Light's custody. From there he writes down the names of the Japanese Task Force including his father. Ryuk would be very entertained seeing that Light is not defeated, and would decide not to write his name down in his Death Note.
I've already covered most of the issues with this, but two scenario-specific issues stand out - namely, Light being able to write down any names at all, and that he could force a diversion.

Writing the names down is highly implausible. We're assuming he's in the car now, correct? Therefore, he's flanked by two people on either side, with two more in the front seats, and then there's the car either behind or in front of him. How does he get the space to write something down? He's being watched, nobody's going to be distracted - they will stop him if he tries something. And they will stop him if they spot anything.

The diversion is also completely implausible. So a person's death by heart attack is meant to keep everyone's eyes off of Light? How do they think Near would have died then: naturally? Please, they're not idiots. It could have only been Light - at least one of the people there would have realised that in a split second and have stopped Light from trying anything else, if not end up killing him outright.

It was over for him no matter what.

Quote:
What Ego? I asked B, to fight for himself, and to come back (if he still watches these forums). I think you need to look up the definition of "ego" lol?
I was referring more to the jabs that you're so fond of, actually. :V



Quote:
Cool? Sarcasm? Or mockery?
...What? No, it was a statement of fact. I've been studying to get out of secondary school since September, and my exams only just finished today.






Quote:
At least we share the same modest nature....Oh yeah, it's nice if you stay to one side in an argument, I don't need you flipping and flopping around and starting to commit the straw man fallacy now.
One side of the argument? I'm just viewing it as I see it.




Quote:
Ah, just as planned, I knew you would commit this error and set yourself up for this one. Thanks champ! Now, obviously you haven't taken all too many English in Post-Secondary, right? You seem more like a Psychology/Soc Major to me. Trying for a minor in English? Anyways, a friendly tip you can never use enough commas, semicolons, or dashes. A comma is just a break between a sentence, it helps you create longer sentences without them being run-on sentences. I am shocked that your English Prof never mentioned this to you!! Where you sleeping in class Nev!? Also, you're wrong in the fact that you should type the way you speak to people - because 80% of the type it would be slang, run on and the reader would probably be offended on the ground that they think the author is insulting their intelligence. - Hey, Nev, guess what? This wasn't even directed to you!!!!! So why even bother commenting on my posts to Sin, and B? I mean I am sure you have enough to handle when I direct something to you. No need to get involved with other conversations going on. Thanks
...Wow. That is absolutely ridiculous.

1. I'm not even in uni yet, and I'm applying for a course in Computer Science. :V
2. ...Four exclamation marks? Seriously - four? While you're trying to talk to someone on grammar?
3. As for why I 'even bothered commenting' on it, please carefully reread the post again:
Quote:
As a friendly tip, you abuse commas far too often. Feel free to use semi colons, colons and dashes to extend your sentences and give them an appropriate tone - much like you'd talk as if you were actually speaking to them in person. Seriously: symbols are your friends.
Quote:
As a friendly tip
I've just been noticing your posts over the discussion and felt that you were relying too heavily on one kind of symbol (which I still stand by, to be honest). That's it; just trying to give a kind word of advice. Way to blow it out of proportion.


Quote:
No, sorry.
Aah, go on! Pleeeeeaaaassseee??
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Old 2009-06-21, 17:28   Link #438
Dragon TY
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Final ep was alright and the Director Cut shows light became a shinigami. Ryuk even says at the Beginning " At that time you were not god" and then continues and says light name in the end. Ryuk book also represents that alot of time has pass since light death.
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Old 2009-06-22, 23:03   Link #439
Tenken's Smile
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QUESTION: What caused Mikami's bleeding n the last anime episode? His blood suddenly shot up like a fountain. That didn't happen in manga.

Quote:
the Director Cut shows light became a shinigami.
This isn't BLEACH; it's DEATH NOTE.
Humans cannot become shinigami.


Basically, Light Yagami died.
and THAT, dear fangirls and fanboys, is the bottom line.

If you read vol #13 then you know that the author said that he wanted to make 100% sure that all fans understand that after death there is nothing, no possible reincarnations or anything of the sort

Tsugumi Ohba had said in an interview (in vol 13) that: "Also, one thing that I didn't allow to be changed was the notion that "when you die, you become nothingness." Luckily, I was able to keep this part..."

Last edited by Tenken's Smile; 2009-06-30 at 21:40.
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Old 2009-06-23, 17:17   Link #440
Light_Yamagi_Kira
New Debate God.
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kanto, Japan.
Age: 25
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Originally Posted by Nevflinn View Post
If I were Kira, one of my primary objectives would have been to find as many reliable allies as I could once the time was right. If I felt uncomfortable about respecting people to work with me on even footing, that'd probably be because I'd have become an arrogant, self-conceited idiot.
Well I have to say here is really that is your own personal choice and I also believe that whole arrogant, self-conceited idiot part - that's pure speculation and I am not sure if you even understand the definition of an arrogant or conceited person; it sure does not seem like you do - and if you do it's a weak understanding. - Friendly point.


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I'm not saying other people don't trust each other, I'm saying Light didn't trust people. What he did and always relied on was manipulation; lying like a dog, pushing people into submission, and mentally pushing people into corners were his prime tactics. He forced compliance from everyone he pulled, whether they felt it or not. Nobody was on equal terms with him, as he called all the shots. His desires and objectives, and his life alone were all that mattered, nobody else's.
Well obviously Light/Kira had to have some trust in people (Misa for one, or even Ryku). I mean didn't Light even say he gave Ryku the death after L's death to go find somebody who is trusting and shares the same ideals as Light? So Nev, it seems you're wrong here because Light did have some trust into people but he also did have the skill of manipulation and within that trust he used it perfectly.


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When Near backed Light into a corner, Light's only means of escape was, indeed, in finding someone he could trust. This was not how Light viewed it, though: he thought he could still continue manipulating and making it all about him, through personal flaws of his own. If Light trusted Mikami, he'd have worked much closer with him (it was possible for them to communicate that much) and informed him of his precautions like the watch scrap - but he didn't. Instead, Light tried to manipulate Mikami when he needed to move on to trusting someone, and Mikami was the perfect person for Light to put trust in; he could have worked rationally well with him had Light allowed him to. But he didn't, and couldn't, because this would have meant putting someone on equal territory as himself. If Mikami's trust had been returned, had they co-operated fairly, Light may not have died. Do you see what I mean?
I am not quite sure what you're missing here Nev but listen closely. Light did have trust into Mikami, he always complimented him, maybe you should re-watch them episodes. Light had the only relationship he could have with Mikami, what more else do you want? Them to go out for coffee and discuss their plans? Come on everything was perfect, Mikami made a mistake an easy one because he thought Kira couldn't act and so Mikami acted for him - now it was against the rules Light commanded but Mikami thought it was the right move. Nothing to do with trust, just mistake and a misread.



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I was hoping to hear what exactly your conclusion was, to be honest. I made a point, then you...didn't actually address it, and then I asked what was going on. So let me be clear here if I wasn't before: what were you trying to say with your reply there?
Honestly I am lost by this. I'll have to check the other thread I guess.


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...When you say Mikami is an idiot, I assume it is because of your insistence that it is actually his fault that Light lost, correct?

In which case,



For the second time, we've been over this already. I've discussed it and given an argument on it. You have not addressed it since; thus, I assume you have no argument against it and instead concede it. It was not Mikami's fault.


Erm, yes he did. He totally did. I don't think any discussion here's needed.
Mikami was an idiot because he went against Light's orders which in conclusion cost Mikami and Light their lives. So yes, I stand by my claim - Mikami is an idiot.
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Well your claim is that Light would have won if he had followed the scenario you and the other Light outlined - which, no matter how you look at it, is purely hypothetical. I argued on that same ground why such events wouldn't work out...and you counter by saying my argument is purely hypothetical.

Mind explaining that one for me, please?
Hey, I think you need to address Light2 because this is his claim I am just conceiving it.



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Ah yes, that one. That post was part of what I was referring to at the start. Just to clarify, it's this one, right?
Yep.

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I've already covered most of the issues with this, but two scenario-specific issues stand out - namely, Light being able to write down any names at all, and that he could force a diversion.

Writing the names down is highly implausible. We're assuming he's in the car now, correct? Therefore, he's flanked by two people on either side, with two more in the front seats, and then there's the car either behind or in front of him. How does he get the space to write something down? He's being watched, nobody's going to be distracted - they will stop him if he tries something. And they will stop him if they spot anything.

The diversion is also completely implausible. So a person's death by heart attack is meant to keep everyone's eyes off of Light? How do they think Near would have died then: naturally? Please, they're not idiots. It could have only been Light - at least one of the people there would have realised that in a split second and have stopped Light from trying anything else, if not end up killing him outright.

It was over for him no matter what.
Mhm Mhm plausible, however, do you really think everyone knew about their meeting? My guess is no, I believe just the two parties knew about this. So if Light does or is able to kill majority of them then guess what - he still has a chance.


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I was referring more to the jabs that you're so fond of, actually. :V
:S


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...What? No, it was a statement of fact. I've been studying to get out of secondary school since September, and my exams only just finished today.
okay....





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One side of the argument? I'm just viewing it as I see it.
lol, Fallacy.



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...Wow. That is absolutely ridiculous.

1. I'm not even in uni yet, and I'm applying for a course in Computer Science. :V
2. ...Four exclamation marks? Seriously - four? While you're trying to talk to someone on grammar?
3. As for why I 'even bothered commenting' on it, please carefully reread the post again:
Wow.... lol, thanks for the information this will be very useful.


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I've just been noticing your posts over the discussion and felt that you were relying too heavily on one kind of symbol (which I still stand by, to be honest). That's it; just trying to give a kind word of advice. Way to blow it out of proportion.
Thanks pal.


Aah, go on! Pleeeeeaaaassseee??
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Originally Posted by Tenken's Smile View Post
QUESTION: What caused Mikami's bleeding n the last anime episode? His blood suddenly shot up like a fountain. That didn't happen in manga.


Definitely not true. While I don't see even the slightest hint pointing to that, here's the reason why it's not true: IF Light did become a Shinigami, that would betray the "Nothingness" idea throughout the series.
Mikami stabbed himself with his pen I believe...
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