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Old 2007-06-28, 14:14   Link #81
ChojinLocke
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Yes ok but Deidara has no way of knowing where Sasuke is since that wouldnt be Sasuke but some projection of himself. Meaning no matter how many times he dies in the illusion it will not end - similar to naruto vs itachi and the crows). So in the end Deidara would be just wasting Chakra. When all chakra is depleted the illusion drops since no more chakra to sustain it and Sasuke kills him.
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Old 2007-06-28, 14:15   Link #82
othafa
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Definately...I agreed with the pointless attacks and wasting chakra part.

Edit: Good point vv, I hadn't considered that.
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Old 2007-06-28, 14:17   Link #83
Hunter
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Genjutsu takes control of the brain, technically it's possible for a Genjutsu user to make you believe you dropped the bomb whereas it is still in your hand.
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Old 2007-06-28, 14:21   Link #84
ChojinLocke
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Yes it takes control of the brain but if for some reason Sasuke decides he wants the illusion to stand there and see how it's like to get bombed then Othafa's point stands: it's just a waste of chakra. But yes Sasuke can make whatever he wants within the illusion since he basically is in control.


Btw...the Deidara that was on the bird on the flashback (the one using the technique) was a clone? Is this confirmed?
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Old 2007-06-28, 15:20   Link #85
shaselai
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Hmm... I never seen kakashi using sharingan to do genjitsu... and how does the sharingan enhance the genjitsu? I mean it's not like it is a requirement so Deidara throughtout his experience must have encountered genjitsu users to somehow know if he's in one or not? And how exactly does the genjitsu user "make" the person see what he/she wants to see? I can see that deidara thinks sasuke down there is real (but an illusion) and bombs him thinking he killed him. But how does sasuke simulate this whole thing without knowledge of what the attacks would result in?

Sakura, kakashi and granny got out of the genjitsu pretty fast and deidara is no idiot... i can't see how he would fall for genjitsu for an entire battle - maybe part of it though.
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Old 2007-06-28, 17:10   Link #86
othafa
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Kakashi used the genjutsu aspect of the sharingan to confuse Zabuza in their first battle. He made Zabuza see an image of himself behind Kakashi as they were both performing the same jutsu. It became apparent to Kakashi (since the jutsu had so many seals involved) what jutsu Zabuza was trying to perform, and he realized that he already knew it, so he made Zabuza see an illusion of himself performing the seals at a slightly slower rate. This distracted Zabuza for long enough that Kakashi was able to complete the jutsu first and defeat Zabuza.

The sharingan doesn't so much enhance genjutsu as allow the user to perform genjutsu without the aid of seals. Simply looking into a sharingan wielder's eye(s) can cause the target to become entrapped. Its kind of sketchy exactly how the sharingan does its magic, but I like to think of it in terms of the same level of forsight displayed when the sharingan is employed against taijutsu. As the genjutsu victim performs actions, the sharingan user has the opportunity to see what he was intending before he actually does it. Everyone always has expectations about what their actions will cause to happen, and these are clear as day to the sharingan user once he has a victim in his genjutsu. He reacts with split second timing to instead show the victim something else entirely, but it can be connected or related to what the victim thought was going to happen.

On a related note, the more I think about it, it was stated that the genjutsu user has control over the victims senses and perceptions as a direct result of their chakra flow, but it was never stated that they have control over their actions. Hunter, are you sure that Sasuke would have been able to prevent Deidara from dropping his bombs?
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Old 2007-06-28, 17:36   Link #87
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by othafa View Post
On a related note, the more I think about it, it was stated that the genjutsu user has control over the victims senses and perceptions as a direct result of their chakra flow, but it was never stated that they have control over their actions. Hunter, are you sure that Sasuke would have been able to prevent Deidara from dropping his bombs?
I think genjutsu can be used to control the actions of others to a certain degree. Afterall, Itachi used genjutsu on a woman to control her actions enough so she would distract Jiraiya. The Rock nin in the gaiden used genjutsu to try to get Rin to talk. There's also the genjutsu (?) Sasori uses on his servants which stays in effect even when Sasori himself isn't near.
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Old 2007-06-28, 17:51   Link #88
That Other Ninja
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I thought genjutsu directly affects your brain, so in a sense it can make you see anything, potentially DO anything even if in actual physical reality you're not moving an arm the genjutsu can make you see yourself moving an arm.
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Old 2007-06-28, 18:12   Link #89
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Regarding the effectiveness of genjutsu, what if the original is in a position to see what is going on. We haven't seen that with Kakashi, because, he was underground. However, in a rather visible location, with the original's connection to the clone, the genjutsu trick should have failed, or at least, Sasuke should have noticed that his genjutsu was not working at the expected level, before getting caught.
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Old 2007-06-28, 19:21   Link #90
Ero-Senn1n
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Did anyone mention that for using a genjutsu Sasuke is in a much more troublesome situation than Itachi was: he is facing 2 opponents. I mean it was already explained that genjutsu can be dispelled by the teammates, and Deidara has Tobi as support. We saw how Itachi failed against Naruto because Sakura and Chiyo dispelled the successful genjutsu. I mean genjutsu is godlike in 1on1 situations but here we have 2on1 situation, and making kagebunshins to make it 2on2 is not Sasuke's speciality. Or Tobi is so lame that he does not help Deidara to dispell a genjutsu, or he does not want to help (plot twist).
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Old 2007-06-28, 19:26   Link #91
Kowai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChojinLocke View Post
Well Deidara came in contact with Sharighan in that scene and it is obviously confirmed by himself as well -->'those eyes'. After this Deidara triggers another jutsu (very powerful) and because genjutsu actually use the casters chakra against them this whole technique will backfire back to Deidara. Furthermore the more chakra Deidara uses (katsu) will be used against him or even sustain the genjutsu (you only can break a genjutsu if you stop your chakra flow). ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChojinLocke View Post
Where did i say the chakra backfires kowai? The chakra he uses turns against them in the form of its physical manifestation (chakra is something like energy) {via the illusion} which is the technique (the jutsu) that's what i posted. Plz read what I type.

..............

I never said chakra backfires - the technique backfires.
seems to me that you did say it causes their chakra to be backfired and used against them?
but its not their chakra being used against them it is their actions....
i dono maybe i cant read... but thats what i got from your post >_>

***who needs drugs when you have a genjutsu user on your team? xD
Tobi "hey deidara want to drop some acid tonight??"
Deidara "who needs acid when you got the killer iller right here?"
*itachi makes eye-contact with deidara*
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Old 2007-06-28, 19:31   Link #92
ChojinLocke
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According to the pictures when Sasuke was casting the genjutsu he was facing some clay clone right? So where can the other Deidara be then (the original)?

@Kowai
Edit: - the chakra is used against them yes since it sustains the illusion.
- 'this whole technique will backfire to deidara' << you see chakra here?
- 'the more chakra he uses will be used against him = sustain the illusion'
- 'the chakra returns in the form of the technique = the technique returns'
- A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,P,Q,R,S,T,U,V,W,X,Y, Z

Last edited by ChojinLocke; 2007-06-28 at 19:42. Reason: kowai
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Old 2007-06-28, 19:49   Link #93
Kowai
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othafa got the same *huh* from you post i did... so i dono i mostly skimmed yours because it was long.... and noticed his argument and just dog piled on that...
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Old 2007-06-28, 19:51   Link #94
Deathwing
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i wonder what naruto's team is doing.

Naruto : was that a huge atomic like explosion maybe sasuke is over there
Kakashi: nope lets keep wondering around for a few more chapters
Naruto: ok
Hinata: .................. (kishi dosn't give her any lines why should i)
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Old 2007-06-28, 20:07   Link #95
abazou
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If you hate sharingan that much you'd better off watching another series. Cause its all about Kyuubi and sharingan in Naruto. You cant watch hajimi no ippo and whine about it having a lot of boxing.
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Old 2007-06-28, 20:20   Link #96
Icecolduchiha
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Naruto is about a plethora of things in japanese mythology, primarally the fox legends and stories of the japanese gods. If you read the books on the myth's then re read all of the manga you can come up with what truely happened and is going to happen
Spoiler for MS:
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Old 2007-06-28, 21:37   Link #97
nine_tailed_kyuubi
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what if sasuke already has MS ?!!
remember during the fight against naruto there is something i didn't get when sasuke jumped with naruto and crushed his head against the ground naruto actually seemed dead his neck was broken and he fell into the water and floated and you only float in water when u r dead and his neck was completely broken, also in that scene we see sasuke falling and coughing as if he was throwing up why ?!!! it seemed to me that naruto was dead and the kyuubi somehow revived him. I know i'm wrong but just came to my head and wanted to ask your opinion, there is no way to beat MS unless you have one that's it.
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Old 2007-06-28, 22:01   Link #98
Monkey D. Luffy
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THat picture is great, the look of surprise and fear on Sasuke's face shows that even him and his cool, calm composure can be shooken up.
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Old 2007-06-28, 22:50   Link #99
yungz21
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did you guys notice that oro and deidara both had flashbaks of itachi before they died so im guessing that probably means that deidara is going to lose even though i think it should have been him who died instead of sasori who died
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Old 2007-06-28, 23:03   Link #100
Kowai
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personally i think it is better deidara outlived sasori.... every bad guy in naruto never turns out to be a regular ninja they all turn into monsters/are monster already... deidara is more of a normal person. I dono personal prefereancce i would rather see the non-cursed seal sound 4 fight than those mutants =/
takes away from the violence...
cant wait for 360 though, he kills deidara/his clone the same way kakashi tried to kill kakuzu. sweet.
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