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Old 2008-04-02, 22:49   Link #861
lastchance
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Because you don't cancel a book two weeks before the deadline unless it's not ready? The date is announced. Money was spent promoting the book (ok, this is an assumption, mebbe they didn't spend any money at all promoting the book, I don't live in Japan). You've committed to this due date. If the book is ready, it's going to be released.

You generally don't want to piss your fanbase off at that point by delaying the book for a marketing stunt. And if you want a book to be announced with the new season, you don't delay the release of the book you're working on by 12 months (and have already announced a release date for) two weeks before it's due just because of a marketing ploy. It is possible (and easy?) to write a new book within this time to cash in (assuming you are not having problems). I don't see how this ploy makes sense. This is why I'm saying what I'm saying.

It's not that difficult to figure out. Guy ran into trouble while writing book. Coming to another conclusion requires Isiah-like levels of willful blindness.
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Old 2008-04-02, 23:23   Link #862
Kaisos Erranon
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Okay, I've been wrong for the past half a year.
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Old 2008-04-02, 23:29   Link #863
kaura117
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Okay, I've been wrong for the past half a year.
Man, that's nothing. The Bush Administration's been wrong for-

*is shot*
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Old 2008-04-03, 01:05   Link #864
lastchance
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o0. I'm kind of surprised. 'Net arguments against fanboys are remarkably hard to win, though you might just want me to drop it, in which case, surez. Probably should stop arguing though and come out with an idea of what second season's going to be like (even if it's horribly wrong, which it probably will be).

They have 8 short stories and 3 novels to work from (excluding novel 9).

Don't think they're going to animate novel 7 (for reasons stated above).

Yeah, that looks like 14 episodes, 6 eps for novel 4, I assume they animate at least 6 short stories (including bamboo leaf, ldo), and they can throw in w/e the hell else they feel like (anime specials, novel 2, more short stories, etc) (but you all know this).

And actually, I think fall makes the most sense, so something like that. My best guess neway, I think it's pretty good.
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Old 2008-04-03, 07:33   Link #865
crimmy88
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hmm.. if ever the second season starts airing, do you guys think they'll do the random eps order again? i sure wish they do!
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Old 2008-04-03, 09:29   Link #866
ijuinkun
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If it's a random episode order, then I would envision Disappearance as the "framing" story threaded through it all. Something like this:

1: Disappearance I
2: Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody
3: Disappearance II
4: Endless Eight I
5: Endless Eight II
6: Disappearance III
7: Sighs I
8: Sighs II
9: Sighs III
10: Disappearance IV
11: Charmed at First Sight LOVER
12: Disappearance V
13: Special Episode
14: Disappearance VI
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Old 2008-04-03, 11:00   Link #867
typhonsentra
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It'd be hard to extend Endless 8 to 2 episodes methinks. The only two-parter I think we'll see is Snow Mountain Syndrome. And Isn't Volume 4 the shortest novel? I think it could be wrapped up in 5 episodes, no?
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Old 2008-04-03, 11:48   Link #868
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimmy88 View Post
hmm.. if ever the second season starts airing, do you guys think they'll do the random eps order again? i sure wish they do!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
If it's a random episode order, then I would envision Disappearance as the "framing" story threaded through it all. Something like this:

1: Disappearance I
2: Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody
3: Disappearance II
4: Endless Eight I
5: Endless Eight II
6: Disappearance III
7: Sighs I
8: Sighs II
9: Sighs III
10: Disappearance IV
11: Charmed at First Sight LOVER
12: Disappearance V
13: Special Episode
14: Disappearance VI
No. No no no. No more random episode order. It worked for Melancholy, but half the point of Disappearance is the question of whether Kyon will actually escape or not. A random order ruins the suspense. It should never be used again, and, indeed, should never have been used in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
It'd be hard to extend Endless 8 to 2 episodes methinks. The only two-parter I think we'll see is Snow Mountain Syndrome. And Isn't Volume 4 the shortest novel? I think it could be wrapped up in 5 episodes, no?
Yeah, Vol. 4 is the shortest, but probably the best, novel to date.

So:

1: Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody
2: Endless Eight
3: Sighs I
4: Sighs II
5: Sighs III
6: Disappearance I
7: Disappearance II
8: Disappearance III
9: Disappearance IV
10: Disappearance V
11: Charmed at First Sight LOVER
12: Snow Mountain Syndrome
13: Where Did the Cat Go?
14: Intrigues Prologue + The Melancholy of Mikuru Asahina (SEQUEL HOOK)

There we go.
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Old 2008-04-03, 12:32   Link #869
Kinny Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
If it's a random episode order, then I would envision Disappearance as the "framing" story threaded through it all. Something like this:

1: Disappearance I
2: Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody
3: Disappearance II
4: Endless Eight I
5: Endless Eight II
6: Disappearance III
7: Sighs I
8: Sighs II
9: Sighs III
10: Disappearance IV
11: Charmed at First Sight LOVER
12: Disappearance V
13: Special Episode
14: Disappearance VI
Leaving Kaisos's arguments against random order aside, if they are to go for a random order, your suggestion is pretty much spot on for a TV airing order, though they ought to start off with Bamboo Leaf first, as that is the vital prologue that introduces the TV viewer to the time-travel concept.

After two episodes of Disappearance which would cover the prologue and first two chapters, which ends with Kyon "wanting to see Haruhi", this would leave it with a good cliffhanger where the viewer is led to other events before this.

I think 3 episodes of Sighs is overkill, 1-2 should be enough to cover those. The same can be said for Endless Eight. If they can cover Day of Sagittarius (90 pages) in 1 episode, covering Endless Eight (70 pages) within 1 episode should be a piece of cake.

01: Bamboo Blade Rhapsody
02: Disappearance I - Prologue up to return of Ryoko in Chapter 1
03: Disappearance II - Rest of Chapter 1 to Chapter 2
04: Endless Eight
05: Disappearance III - Chapter 3 up to where Kyon reveals himself to alternate-Haruhi as "John Smith"
06: Sighs I
07: Charmed at First Sight Lover
08: Sighs II
09: Disappearance IV - Rest of Chapter 3 to Chapter 4 - another cliffhanger here as Yuki is about to reveal who the culprit is
10: Original episode penned by Tanigawa himself again, probably take place sometime just before Melancholy of Mikuru
11: Disappearance V - Chapter 5
12: Disappearance VI - Chapter 6 + Epilogue

So yes, my suggestion would be only 12 instead of 14. Then again, Volume 4 was much thinner than Volume 1.

While you can put these in the "right" order for the DVD, for a TV audience, it is important to have an ending with a suitable climax as this generates enough hype throughout the season. If you have the climax at the middle, interest from the less devoted would no doubt decrease afterwards.

So while I would prefer to watch the episodes in the "correct" order once I have all the episodes, I believe Kyo-Ani's decision to air them in "random" is a gamble that paid off.
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我對這裡的管理員的霸道與毫無準則的執法行為感到徹底失望﹗

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Last edited by Kinny Riddle; 2008-04-03 at 14:10.
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Old 2008-04-03, 12:41   Link #870
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
While you can put these in the "right" order for the DVD, for a TV audience with short attention span, it is important to have an ending with a suitable climax as this generates enough hype throughout the season. If you have the climax at the middle, interest from the less devoted would no doubt decrease afterwards.

So while I would prefer to watch the episodes in the "correct" order once I have all the episodes, I believe Kyo-Ani's decision to air them in "random" is a gamble that paid off.
You're underestimating the audience.

A random order, as I have said, would remove all suspense from the plot of an otherwise amazing novel. We have to question whether or not Kyon will get out. That's the point.

If you want to end the season with a climax, make a really short season then.

12 episodes, though, would probably result in Takemoto being lynched... they have more than enough material for 2 cours, whether they decide to do so or not.
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Old 2008-04-03, 13:16   Link #871
Skane
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Arrow

I don't see the random airing as a case of "assuming the audience is as bright as rocks", but a strategy in which there was a method to the madness.

Think about it carefully... what was the very first episode that aired in the broadcast order? It's not exactly something that a "dumb attention-deficient moron" would find interesting. Recall the number of comments during those days that went more or less, "What the f*** is this shit?"

KyoAni aired it randomly in the gamble that the audience would be smart enough, not dumb, to appreciate what was going on. Recall the whirlwind of activity as fans tried to predict what would air next. There was an element of fun to it, and precisely because it was random, the "filler episodes" were unpredictable. So the audience surprise was there as well.

Not to mention the reverse-foreshadowing. That was a lot of fun.

That said, I don't think it would be wise to repeat the same trick again for the second season, because it might get old. It worked for the first season because it was new, but repeating it might cause jadedness due to it being same-old same-old.

Cheers.
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Old 2008-04-03, 13:25   Link #872
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
I don't see the random airing as a case of "assuming the audience is as bright as rocks", but a strategy in which there was a method to the madness.

Think about it carefully... what was the very first episode that aired in the broadcast order? It's not exactly something that a "dumb attention-deficient moron" would find interesting. Recall the number of comments during those days that went more or less, "What the f*** is this shit?"

KyoAni aired it randomly in the gamble that the audience would be smart enough, not dumb, to appreciate what was going on. Recall the whirlwind of activity as fans tried to predict what would air next. There was an element of fun to it, and precisely because it was random, the "filler episodes" were unpredictable. So the audience surprise was there as well.

Not to mention the reverse-foreshadowing. That was a lot of fun.

That said, I don't think it would be wise to repeat the same trick again for the second season, because it might get old. It worked for the first season because it was new, but repeating it might cause jadedness due to it being same-old same-old.

Cheers.
I didn't say that. I said that Kinny was wrong in assuming the audience couldn't handle an ending without a climax.

But thanks for agreeing with me.
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:09   Link #873
Kinny Riddle
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Perhaps my choice of words of "short attention span" was wrong, but I certainly did not assume the audience were dumb as rocks, and I take that back. But please don't put me in the same level as US TV-network executives, that makes me feel dumb for some reason.

For the record, I am neither totally for or against Kyo-Ani re-doing their random episode trick again for series 2.


Quote:
A random order, as I have said, would remove all suspense from the plot of an otherwise amazing novel. We have to question whether or not Kyon will get out. That's the point.
It's not like I'm saying we should say, "OK we will now randomly stop here and detour to another story", of course that way the suspense and pacing would be ruined.

What I and perhaps ijuinkun was thinking is along the lines of perhaps we come to a crucial point in the story where it would make a perfect cliffhanger if we were to stop there, then the audience can be teased with that cliffhanger, and have them hungry and eager to come back while feeding them the "filler" aspect of the other volumes along the way, but of course it would be unwise to overdo it to the point of putting them off, which may be one of your concerns.

Does that make better sense now? (Please ignore my previous "audience with short attention" point)

Quote:
If you want to end the season with a climax, make a really short season then.
I would not mind a 6 episode season myself.

Quote:
12 episodes, though, would probably result in Takemoto being lynched... they have more than enough material for 2 cours, whether they decide to do so or not.
And how do you know that 12-14 episodes won't work?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane
KyoAni aired it randomly in the gamble that the audience would be smart enough, not dumb, to appreciate what was going on. Recall the whirlwind of activity as fans tried to predict what would air next. There was an element of fun to it, and precisely because it was random, the "filler episodes" were unpredictable. So the audience surprise was there as well.

Not to mention the reverse-foreshadowing. That was a lot of fun.
Yes, I too was thinking along those lines but couldn't find the right words for it. So thanks Skane.

Quote:
That said, I don't think it would be wise to repeat the same trick again for the second season, because it might get old. It worked for the first season because it was new, but repeating it might cause jadedness due to it being same-old same-old.
Agreed. Which is why I hold a neutral view to this.
__________________
哀莫大於心死。
我對這裡的管理員的霸道與毫無準則的執法行為感到徹底失望﹗

It was fun while it lasted.

Last edited by Kinny Riddle; 2008-04-03 at 14:24.
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:21   Link #874
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
One of my favorite things about Haruhi is that it never falls into this trope. I'd sure be upset if they lost some of their uniqueness in an effort to lower the bar of enjoyment
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:29   Link #875
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
One of my favorite things about Haruhi is that it never falls into this trope. I'd sure be upset if they lost some of their uniqueness in an effort to lower the bar of enjoyment
Actually, reading the novels, they DID dumb the story, and Kyon especially, down for the anime.

A good example would be the fact that they were originally going to remove the car sequence in broadcast episode 13, and have broadcast episodes 13 and 14 as episode 14, with Endless Eight as episode 13 instead.

KyoAni really seems to hate Koizumi's monologues, which, although drawn-out, explain a lot of the plot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
I would not mind a 6 episode season myself.
Shorter seasons released at a greater frequency? I'm all for that.
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:39   Link #876
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
KyoAni really seems to Koizumi's monologues, which, although drawn-out, explain a lot of the plot.
Well, the issue of dumbing-down aside, letting a character ramble on for as long as Koizumi does in a visual medium can be a problem - that whole 'show, don't tell' thing that is really the purpose of visual media.
Even more likely, they probably just didn't have time for it all.
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:46   Link #877
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Well, the issue of dumbing-down aside, letting a character ramble on for as long as Koizumi does in a visual medium can be a problem - that whole 'show, don't tell' thing that is really the purpose of visual media.
Even more likely, they probably just didn't have time for it all.
Mmm, that's true.
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:48   Link #878
Kristen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
You're underestimating the audience.

A random order, as I have said, would remove all suspense from the plot of an otherwise amazing novel. We have to question whether or not Kyon will get out. That's the point.

If you want to end the season with a climax, make a really short season then.

12 episodes, though, would probably result in Takemoto being lynched... they have more than enough material for 2 cours, whether they decide to do so or not.
Well, I want a random order, just because I never got to experiance it the first time through. Waiting a month for more plot... Ooh, it just sounds too fun!

Anyways, I see what you mean by it removing the suspence. Then again, same could be said for season 1, since episode 14's climax was "Will they escape"
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:59   Link #879
lastchance
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No one thinks they'll run Editor in Chief/Wandering Shadow? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see those.
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Old 2008-04-03, 14:59   Link #880
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
Well, I want a random order, just because I never got to experiance it the first time through. Waiting a month for more plot... Ooh, it just sounds too fun!

Anyways, I see what you mean by it removing the suspence. Then again, same could be said for season 1, since episode 14's climax was "Will they escape"
That was the LAST episode of that arc, though.

Kyon gets stuck in the Yukiverse in the FIRST part of that arc.
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