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Old 2008-06-06, 16:41   Link #1101
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They need to stop messing around and give us some info already. I'm tired of waiting, I want more info.
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Old 2008-06-06, 16:48   Link #1102
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Cool

Patience Grasshoppers. The wait is not that long yet. Quite frankly, two years (and counting) of waiting is small sweat for a series of this calibre. I'm quite used to waiting for up to a decade for a brilliant continuation. It would scare me more if they rush the project.

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Old 2008-06-06, 16:55   Link #1103
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Patience Grasshoppers. The wait is not that long yet. Quite frankly, two years (and counting) of waiting is small sweat for a series of this calibre. I'm quite used to waiting for up to a decade for a brilliant continuation. It would scare me more if they rush the project.
The thing is though, they have source material. (They have excellent source material that is superior to anything they can come out with, actually.) Most productions that take a decade of waiting are original works, which Haruhi is not.

In addition, this is an ongoing plot, which is why the wait is so agonizing.
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Old 2008-06-06, 17:14   Link #1104
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I guess that's why we got excellent adaptations of Zero no Tsukaima, Fate/Stay Night, etc... Oh wait...

Adapting an existing material is not exactly idiot-proof either. Especially when one is dealing with a mainly-text medium, being converted into a series of 20+ minutes audio-video episodes. Without the benefit of narration (or narrative description), certain nuances that can be easily explained to a reader, has to be translated somehow for the viewer. Then there is the matter of cramming all that material into a fixed length episode.

Furthermore, whereas a novel can damn well choose where/when to stop a scene, or how long its individual chapters can be, an anime is shackled by the need to have commercial breaks, and again, the fixed length problem.

The list goes on and on. Suffice to say, life is not that simple when it comes to novel adaptations. Having a pre-existing source material does not mean life becomes easier. If anything... it becomes HARDER, because whereas one is free to mould an original story to one's liking (no one is going to blame you for leaving something out ), when it comes to an adaptation, you need to be faithful and become shackled to it.

Unless of course... you don't mind KyoAni pulling off a GONZO or JC Staff, and not give a rat's arse about the original material. Is this what you want?

Cheers.
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Old 2008-06-06, 17:28   Link #1105
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
I guess that's why we got excellent adaptations of Zero no Tsukaima, Fate/Stay Night, etc... Oh wait...

Adapting an existing material is not exactly idiot-proof either. Especially when one is dealing with a mainly-text medium, being converted into a series of 20+ minutes audio-video episodes. Without the benefit of narration (or narrative description), certain nuances that can be easily explained to a reader, has to be translated somehow for the viewer. Then there is the matter of cramming all that material into a fixed length episode.

Furthermore, whereas a novel can damn well choose where/when to stop a scene, or how long its individual chapters can be, an anime is shackled by the need to have commercial breaks, and again, the fixed length problem.

The list goes on and on. Suffice to say, life is not that simple when it comes to novel adaptations. Having a pre-existing source material does not mean life becomes easier. If anything... it becomes HARDER, because whereas one is free to mould an original story to one's liking (no one is going to blame you for leaving something out ), when it comes to an adaptation, you need to be faithful and become shackled to it.

Unless of course... you don't mind KyoAni pulling off a GONZO or JC Staff, and not give a rat's arse about the original material. Is this what you want?
I'd like to spend the time now to point out that the first season of Haruhi was an excellent adaptation in this regard, with the exception of the Lone Island episodes. (It also has the benefit of being a linear book series, rather than a visual novel with alternate endings.)

You're perfectly right about the problems with adapting a work, but, as far as the process of writing the adapted work goes, I simply can't see why it isn't easier to directly adapt a work without any changes to the story.

(For this reason, I cannot see why JC Staff screwed with the plot of Shana so much. Wouldn't it have created less logical inconsistencies if they had just stuck to the source?)

In any case, I don't see the problem with adapting the rest of the Haruhi novels to television if they do exactly what they did with the first season, minus the episode shuffling, of course.
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Old 2008-06-06, 17:42   Link #1106
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Style, time allowed to work with (periods between commercials, episode length limits, and series length limits), high expectations from the critics/fanbase, and a rather difficult plot to adapt, leads to a long wait.

They will probably mix up the order again to allow for different pieces of information to reach the audiance at different times. While the order of the stories was messed around with, the main plotline was not done out of order, it just has "future filler" added. Endless Eight will probably be in the middle someplace to give hints on why things happened, while Bamboo Rhapsody will be either first, or tied to its Book 4 counterpart in the middle of the story. They also might want breakup the seriousness of the main plot by adding humorous single episode "filler" (not real filler, but not the main Book 4 plotline). Then they might try to have one or two, anime only stories that add little to the story, but give added flavor for things they might needed to have skipped. Or even throw that random bone out towards recent fan trends....
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Old 2008-06-06, 18:01   Link #1107
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Work is started on most productions at least a year prior, I believe.
Isn't that more of a planning and conceptual phase? I don't think most shows actually go into full-scale production until shortly before broadcast.

As for preparation time, it varies from project to project. IIRC, Akitaro Daichi has a six month policy for his own projects. However, shows can be rushed together too (i.e. Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino-. They were still gathering research materials in Fall 2007, while broadcast quickly went ahead in Winter 2008).

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I cannot see why JC Staff screwed with the plot of Shana so much.
Dunno. With any entertainment company, you probably have to take into account its creative culture and business plans. For instance, if a studio's employees and contracted directors are accustomed to creating new material as they like, then you might not get super faithful adaptations from them. There's always a balance between making decisions that please purists and decisions that please/motivate the creative side (my guess is that most veteran, creative-minded staff would rather deviate from a source than stick with a rigidly established plan. The latter is boring.)

Business-wise, mixing original and adapted material can extend the length of a series. It would also be interesting to know if one process is more time consuming than another.
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:04   Link #1108
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Originally Posted by Helioz View Post
btw,
Somebody, please, make hight resolution scans of the articles!
I will make the translation.
This would be greatly appreciated and possibly reassuring.
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:15   Link #1109
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Does anyone care to help me understand what the hell they mean by 'A whole new Haruhi that isn't a second season'?

... No matter how you look at it, it's a continuation of the story - therefore second season, right? XD!
Maybe some high res scans and translations will clear this little mystery up... for me at least >_>'


Either way!
I'm just glad of SOME sort of information about it. At least it lets us know that they aren't just sitting around doing nothing on it so far... right?

._.
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:50   Link #1110
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One interpretation is they're saying it's not "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" this time, right?
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Old 2008-06-06, 19:55   Link #1111
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I thought that was established anyway because it's been very apparent for a few months that it's going to be focused on Disappearance?

Bah! It's been a long day at work, and been a long week. I'll probably wake up tomorrow and understand it and feel like an idiot for not getting it first time round XD
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:55   Link #1112
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Originally Posted by fishy_hylian View Post
Does anyone care to help me understand what the hell they mean by 'A whole new Haruhi that isn't a second season'?

... No matter how you look at it, it's a continuation of the story - therefore second season, right? XD!
Not really. They could simply be creating entirely new (fail) content with the same characters.

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Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
Business-wise, mixing original and adapted material can extend the length of a series. It would also be interesting to know if one process is more time consuming than another.
If the company is focused on making their original content logically consistent, then it would probably take more time in the planning phase then just copying the text from a book...

However, if they're more focused on adding fanservice then making things consistent, it doesn't matter in the least. (I'm looking at you, JC Staff.)

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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
They will probably mix up the order again to allow for different pieces of information to reach the audiance at different times. While the order of the stories was messed around with, the main plotline was not done out of order, it just has "future filler" added. Endless Eight will probably be in the middle someplace to give hints on why things happened, while Bamboo Rhapsody will be either first, or tied to its Book 4 counterpart in the middle of the story. They also might want breakup the seriousness of the main plot by adding humorous single episode "filler" (not real filler, but not the main Book 4 plotline). Then they might try to have one or two, anime only stories that add little to the story, but give added flavor for things they might needed to have skipped. Or even throw that random bone out towards recent fan trends....
Not this time. Disappearance, unlike Melancholy, is over half set in an alternate world from which there seems to be no escape. Showing what happens after ruins all dramatic tension.

(Interestingly enough, the novels themselves used that as a plot device, in Snow Mountain Syndrome...)
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Old 2008-06-06, 21:16   Link #1113
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Not really. They could simply be creating entirely new (fail) content with the same characters.
... Ah!
That thought never occured to me the first time.
Now it makes sense and I'm kind of half worried and half thinking 'that might be kinda cool.'

Though it seems pretty obvious they'll be doing something with the Disappearance Arc so... dunno :O
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Old 2008-06-06, 21:19   Link #1114
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Not this time. Disappearance, unlike Melancholy, is over half set in an alternate world from which there seems to be no escape. Showing what happens after ruins all dramatic tension.

(Interestingly enough, the novels themselves used that as a plot device, in Snow Mountain Syndrome...)
I can't speak for everyone, but when I read Disappearance, it was pretty obvious that Kyon would manage to get out of his predicament. The dramatic tension (yes, I did still manage to find dramatic tension; hell, I read the entire novel in one sitting) instead comes from the story itself, not the outcome.
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Old 2008-06-06, 21:23   Link #1115
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Originally Posted by fishy_hylian View Post
... Ah!
That thought never occured to me the first time.
Now it makes sense and I'm kind of half worried and half thinking 'that might be kinda cool.'
Oh no no no. KyoAni are terrible writers. They're fantastic animators and brilliant adaptors... but get them to write their own original content and it sucks.

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Originally Posted by fishy_hylian View Post
Though it seems pretty obvious they'll be doing something with the Disappearance Arc so... dunno :O
They could just by plying us with random art...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn View Post
I can't speak for everyone, but when I read Disappearance, it was pretty obvious that Kyon would manage to get out of his predicament. The dramatic tension (yes, I did still manage to find dramatic tension; hell, I read the entire novel in one sitting) instead comes from the story itself, not the outcome.
Okay, but I still think episode shuffling is a bad idea in general.
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Old 2008-06-06, 21:23   Link #1116
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Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn View Post
I can't speak for everyone, but when I read Disappearance, it was pretty obvious that Kyon would manage to get out of his predicament. The dramatic tension (yes, I did still manage to find dramatic tension; hell, I read the entire novel in one sitting) instead comes from the story itself, not the outcome.
That's the thing though... when you've read enough books and watched enough movies, you know exactly what to expect when watching new movies or reading new books.

The artistry comes from still managing to build up tension in the viewer/reader even if they know how it's all going to end up. Don't you think?

Then again, some go off the rails and end things completely differently to how you imagined them to be... Like I just finished watching the 2007 adaptation of The Mist. I wasn't expecting that one! :O
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Old 2008-06-06, 21:25   Link #1117
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Oh no no no. KyoAni are terrible writers. They're fantastic animators and brilliant adaptors... but get them to write their own original content and it sucks.
Fair enough. Admittedly, I have only watched shows where they've adapted visual novels/manga/novels (Kanon, Clannad, Suzumiya, Lucky Star). So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you there :C

Quote:
They could just by plying us with random art...
*dies*
That would be very mean and I hope that isnt the case!
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Old 2008-06-06, 22:01   Link #1118
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Patience Grasshoppers. The wait is not that long yet. Quite frankly, two years (and counting) of waiting is small sweat for a series of this calibre. I'm quite used to waiting for up to a decade for a brilliant continuation. It would scare me more if they rush the project.

Cheers.
I agree with Skane. We've waited two years already, what's another month or so gonna do (I still stand by Haruhi 2 airing on July 7th btw). Hell I'm still hopeful of a 2nd Nadesico and Slam Dunk anime, even though they were both animated over a decade ago and the chances seem to be slimming with each passing day

Anywayz on a slight different tangent, I think some people may be over-reacting to this "completely new Haruhi" announcement or whatever you want to call it. After all it's basically the same thing they said half a year ago on December 18th, "TMoSH 2 cancelled, new Suzumiya Haruhi animation set in production!". Novel readers should've picked up on what they meant by a "new Haruhi" if they havn't already though

Just wait and see is all i have to say, don't lose faith just yet...
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Old 2008-06-06, 22:06   Link #1119
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I agree with Skane. We've waited two years already, what's another month or so gonna do (I still stand by Haruhi 2 airing on July 7th btw).
Er, no. That's half the point of this article. They haven't started working on it yet.

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Originally Posted by brocko View Post
Anywayz on a slight different tangent, I think some people may be over-reacting to this "completely new Haruhi" announcement or whatever you want to call it. After all it's basically the same thing they said half a year ago on December 18th, "TMoSH 2 cancelled, new Suzumiya Haruhi animation set in production!". Novel readers should've picked up on what they meant by a "new Haruhi" if they havn't already though
Er, no, again. They said something about a new anime and a new direction, not a "new Haruhi".

I think.

Gods, we need that article translated.
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Old 2008-06-06, 22:07   Link #1120
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They don't have to jump to things that happen after the main plotline, they can mix it up with stuff that happens before the plotline (such as "Sighs", "Endless Eight", "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody", and I think "Charmed at First Sight LOVER") Mixing would be fine since at least two of those come from later novels than "Disappearance" even though they happen before and show hints of why things happened in "Disappearance".

If the season is to end with the ending from "Disappearance", then they can avoid "Snowy Mountain" and "Where did the Cat Go" to mix with the "Melancholy of Mikuru" and "Intrigues" for a third season. However, the snowy mountain trip is mentioned and planned for during "Disappearance", so not having it in there may throw things off (no pay-off so to speak). It is where to end the story that may be the hard part ("I hate Temporal Mechanics").
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