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Old 2004-03-15, 00:08   Link #61
7hor
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Hmm, well I suppose the harrier could do that (besides buring all its fuel up too quickly) but I don't think it could pitch all the way up like it did at the end. But yea, arguing about the realism is pointless *slaps self* :P We just need to sit back and enjoy the show.
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Old 2004-03-15, 00:57   Link #62
MwyC
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meh
the whole thing is pretty unrealistic
i mean..A-7 corsairs taking out planes like that?

but then most movies about aircraft ARE unrealistic too
Top gun, iron eagle, etc

just enjoy the nicely rendered planes blowing stuff up
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Old 2004-03-15, 00:59   Link #63
PocariSweat
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Just started watching this, and yeah - the 3D work does seem sloppily combined with the normal animation - lots of perspective problems. Also the typical jarring combination of smooth moving 3D with roughly animated cell work doesn't help any.

While the show does feature lots of real planes, I can't help but wonder if the lage number of public domain 3D aircraft models had anything to do with it.

Still, what I want to know is how the photographer instantly recognized the "one Japanese pilot" - was it his long blonde hair and blue eyes that gave him away?!
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Old 2004-03-15, 01:40   Link #64
jennwenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Za Paper
Heres the article I found on animenewsnetwork.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=4681

link to the pics

http://hirobebe.hp.infoseek.co.jp/za...area88shot.jpg

I combed through the op of the first ep frame by frame but I didnt see it. Those planes in the pics , Mig-21's maybe?, dont even show up in the op sequence, nor in the entire 1st episode.
So subliminal images are illegal under Japanese broadcast standards? To think they need a rule for that! *imagines freaky cultish conspiracy theories...* I wonder if there are similar rules in the US, this is an interesting concept.

Still, what sort of brainwashing subliminal message is imparted by a naked woman collapsing? "Planes are sexy! Now Watch Area 88!" Hmm...the conspiracy unfolds

Maybe I'll actually watch Area 88 now heh.
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Old 2004-03-15, 03:07   Link #65
Access
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MwyC
meh
the whole thing is pretty unrealistic
i mean..A-7 corsairs taking out planes like that?

but then most movies about aircraft ARE unrealistic too
Top gun, iron eagle, etc

just enjoy the nicely rendered planes blowing stuff up
F-8 (crusader), not the A-7.
That part isn't that bad, the planes they're fighting are pretty much from the same era (Mig-15/17/19/21).

The main thing that gets me is just the performance and some of the turns. Reality is that speed and altitude must be conserved in a dogfight -- there are very few fighters that can even pull a single G of straight linear acceleration even with the afterburners on (F-104, etc.) How many planes can accelerate when pointing when straight up -- not many today can even do that. And don't even get me started on some of those turns...
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Old 2004-03-15, 04:57   Link #66
tsurumaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
The main thing that gets me is just the performance and some of the turns. Reality is that speed and altitude must be conserved in a dogfight -- there are very few fighters that can even pull a single G of straight linear acceleration even with the afterburners on (F-104, etc.) How many planes can accelerate when pointing when straight up -- not many today can even do that. And don't even get me started on some of those turns...
Actually I'm pretty impressed they can turn at all, those Coin-Op flight dynamics can be pretty two dimensional.
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Old 2004-03-15, 15:15   Link #67
7hor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MwyC
meh
the whole thing is pretty unrealistic
i mean..A-7 corsairs taking out planes like that?

but then most movies about aircraft ARE unrealistic too
Top gun, iron eagle, etc

just enjoy the nicely rendered planes blowing stuff up
I haven't seen a corsair II, but it is almost the same as the Crusader :P But yea, the era is all around the same area, like Access said. The planes move strangely sometimes, that's what I hate the most. Some parts look great, some look awful. Oh well, the planes are indeed modeled nicely
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Old 2004-03-15, 15:51   Link #68
hunterx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Za Paper
Yeah, I'm pretty dissapointed at the amount of unrealism in this series. Dogfights between jet aircraft are unlikely given that air to air missles can hit your opponent miles away. I suppose I have to give them some leeway for dramatic effect. I think a world war II anime of this kind would be really cool.

Ep 7 used a Harrier as a mobile SAM unit. Is that even possible?
realism sucks, especially when it comes to planes. The whole area 88 zone thing idea defies reality. First of all there aren't that many pilots in the world so you can't just sign up every joe average to go there. secondly their pilot death rate is too high to keep this fight up for more than 2 weeks. If this show was based in reality it wouldn't fly
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Old 2004-03-15, 17:24   Link #69
cf18
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The worst part is with both F-8 folding up the wings mid-air - the real thing need 30sec+ of cranking to fold up and the plane will stall right away if it losing so many wing serface.

But in real life the F-8 can still owns the MiG 19 & 21.

Those planes are certainly not "nicely rendered". 3 years old PC flight-sims had better rendering.
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Old 2004-03-16, 00:38   Link #70
7hor
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I think they are going for a cel-shaded look, I think it's pretty good :P And yea, having their wings folded up was hilarious XD
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Old 2004-03-16, 00:41   Link #71
MwyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7hor
I haven't seen a corsair II, but it is almost the same as the Crusader :P But yea, the era is all around the same area, like Access said. The planes move strangely sometimes, that's what I hate the most. Some parts look great, some look awful. Oh well, the planes are indeed modeled nicely

ohhh
yeah
the nose is sharper
the a-7's is more blunt
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Old 2004-03-16, 03:01   Link #72
FromageTheDog
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Just thought I'd add in my own $0.02 for general amusement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anlushac11
the MiG-17 IIRC ahs taller and more wing fences.
This is correct, and at the time, some wags in the Pentagon joked that it was to prevent the airflow at the wing root (next to the fuselage) from "defecting" to the tips...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anlushac11
F-8 was known as the Gunfighter. Its other knickname was "MigMaster" It was the last US fighter designed with its guns as its main weapon.
Another interesting tidbit: this aircraft had a rather unique feature in that the wing was hinged and could be tilted to a limited extent (~5 deg.). This allowed it to take off at lower angles-of-attack, useful for carrier operations and for eeking out that last bit of rotation angle short of a tail-strike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anlushac11
The MiG-17 is still a viable fighter in 3rd world countries since it is very rugged and easy to maintain and designed to operate from primitive conditions. The MiG-15 is not used much by any militaries other than as a trainer.
In fact, current Russian hardware maintains this tradition of ease of maintenance -- a CIA liaison invited to inspect the Su-27 described it as having been "designed to be maintianed by a 17 year old with a ball peen hammer." For an aircraft that has arguably superior performance to an F-15, this is remarkable!

Thanks for an informative post!

- Fromage
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Old 2004-03-16, 15:20   Link #73
7hor
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And the controls are not fly by wire either :P The Russian jets are amazing, at least manuverablitiy, I think the Su27 has the f-15 beat. But the f-15 is just made to fly high and fast. Amazing stuff though, even the mig29 can pull off a cobra.
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Old 2004-03-16, 16:18   Link #74
marin
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LOL this thread is taken over by military otaku LOL
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Old 2004-03-16, 16:36   Link #75
Spiggy
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Yeah, I'm just now getting hooked to Area 88 TV. I'm glad that I saw someone playing it one night.
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Old 2004-03-16, 16:46   Link #76
Access
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7hor
And the controls are not fly by wire either :P The Russian jets are amazing, at least manuverablitiy, I think the Su27 has the f-15 beat. But the f-15 is just made to fly high and fast. Amazing stuff though, even the mig29 can pull off a cobra.
USSR's planes were often better 'on paper' but they didn't have the training or the ordinance the US had. US pilots better understood the actual performance, the limitations, and the strengths of their aircraft. Likewise US ordinance went through many many revisions and was constantly improving. Nowadays the USSR designs still look great 'on paper'
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mfi.htm
(theoretically that plane could do nearly 2G straight linear acceleration)
but they can't even afford to manufacture them so they never get past prototypes.

The only scenario I can imagine for Area 88 is 10+ years in the future when the US is turning to its own boneyards of decommisioned fighter / attack aircraft to make budget ends meet and keep social security and medicare and other government programs from going insolvent. Something like an F-14 is only used by the US, not sold to any other nations, no other way it would ever get into the hands of some mercenary pilot (unless he was some kind of defector). Likewise the planes and the ordinance and the like are just going for too little $$$.

The thing about the mercenary pilots is that I presume after 3 years they get to keep whatever $$$ they make, so one could easily walk away with a few 100,000's if he survived the 3 years. That alone would be enough for most people with the skills to join up...
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Old 2004-03-16, 18:22   Link #77
durrem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Access

Something like an F-14 is only used by the US, not sold to any other nations, no other way it would ever get into the hands of some mercenary pilot (unless he was some kind of defector). Likewise the planes and the ordinance and the like are just going for too little $$$.
Actually, it is my understanding that Iran got a hold of a bunch of F14s when they were the US's allies in the 70s. However, they had some kind of revolution (the Shaw got power) so we cut them off of support for the F14s, so they probably can't maintain them for combat. They might have gotten the F14 from there.
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Old 2004-03-17, 06:41   Link #78
u&t
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The iranan F14s has been upgraded by the russians. They have tens of those birds still flying.

Anyway. The "10 years into the future" scenario is not a good one. A majority of the planes in the show are not decommsissoned. They have been scrapped. The series creators has also put british, french and swedish planes in the show so my guess is they just picked hardware from the 50s and onward that they thought were cool and used it in the show.

The whole show is a weird mix between early 80s and todays technology btw (like Nikon F3's and people using computers with flat screens for doing diagnostics on their planes). If you really want a scenario the "totally different universe" scenario is the only good one.
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Old 2004-03-17, 10:09   Link #79
7hor
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This is a an old remake of the OVA in the 80s, where Shin had a crusader and then got an f-5 II
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Old 2004-03-17, 13:16   Link #80
Briareos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7hor
This is a an old remake of the OVA in the 80s, where Shin had a crusader and then got an f-5 II
Yes, but how true is it to the original OVA?
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