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Old 2007-07-22, 13:19   Link #421
ChojinLocke
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It all depends on the time span of the explosion that Deidara triggered. Since we dont know how much time it took for Deidara's explosion to 'trigger' ie. actually detonate we can infer there is a small window of feasibility for Sasuke's escape.

The chapter was not the best of the manga but the fight overall was good if not tad exaggerated from both sides (Deidara also pulled a LOT of jutsus and powerful ones at that). Kishimoto wanted to pull a good show and i think he succeeded - everything else after that is a bit off and misses the point of the manga in the first place. Criticising something has its limits too. We are not forced to read bashing post after post when the name Sasuke pops up - some of us like to watch this 'shit' as you call it to have fun. I agree with Hunter on this one.

Oh and criticising Kishimoto as a person is idiotic and borderline retarded. There are no rules. Kishimoto is the rules and the manga is the law. Get over it.

Last edited by ChojinLocke; 2007-07-22 at 13:20. Reason: corrections
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Old 2007-07-22, 13:20   Link #422
tatami
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so from now on we can expect anything on anytime which is not mentioned...

sasuke was never said he was out of chakra and bla bla...

so we can expect that AL will be killed in an instant by a chidori cast by kakashi and we can be told that kakashi was after al 2.5 years and waiting for a chance...

this is some bad storytelling...i think this is the 2nd time in naruto, first was the gay stuff with sasuke and sai and now this poor finish for the deidara fight...

hope kishi spent some more time in story building...

then again everybody has their good moods and bad moods...
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Old 2007-07-22, 13:23   Link #423
Rurik
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Originally Posted by tatami View Post
so from now on we can expect anything on anytime which is not mentioned...

sasuke was never said he was out of chakra and bla bla...

so we can expect that AL will be killed in an instant by a chidori cast by kakashi and we can be told that kakashi was after al 2.5 years and waiting for a chance...

this is some bad storytelling...i fekt this 2nd time in naruto first was the gay stuff with sasuke and sai and now this poor finish for the deidara fight...

hope kishi spent some more time in story building...

then again everybody has their good moods and bad moods...
Kishimmoto has never been 100% consistent with the Chakra pool, why he needs to start now?, because is Sasuke? there a lot of instances where the Character have done a lot of things, and still had enough Chakra to continue on.
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Old 2007-07-22, 13:23   Link #424
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Thats Anime filler...
That's good to know. Now I am relieved.
Quote:
I think no matter how hard you debate, you don't have anything to use as an argument that Sasuke was out of Chakra..neither that there was no time to escape the bomb, I think you are confusing this series with other types of series.
So, Sasuke turned his sharingan off, just for checking whether he can turn it off or not.
Quote:
And it was 4 times Kakshi chakra that Naruto have, this was a correction made by Kishimoto.
Well, that is definitely something I have missed. When did he make the correction? Or, I guess he became to embarrassed after thinking of what he planned for Sasuke that he needed to even back off from what small power he gave to Naruto compared to Sasuke. Even Bush sometimes shows such high-level thinking - though that way is really doubtful for the people who cannot even bear that critics, sometimes it has to do with the age, like some spoilt samples above...

Anyway, I guess the heat here didn't allow you to not come back even during your break...
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Old 2007-07-22, 13:30   Link #425
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
So, Sasuke turned his sharingan off, just for checking whether he can turn it off or not.
Well, that still not an indication that he was out of Chakra, you can't use that as an argument for it, he could had been even bluffing, or as you would had say, the same character out of his mouth did not say he was out of Chakra.

But if you ask me, I'll go with what I said to Tatami, Kishi has not been consistent with the Chakra/Jutsu ratio, so I think when someone say he is out of Chakra, he can still pull of any Jutsu thanks to plot.

Quote:
Well, that is definitely something I have missed. When did he make the correction? Or, I guess he became to embarrassed after thinking of what he planned for Sasuke that he needed to even back off from what small power he gave to Naruto compared to Sasuke. Even Bush sometimes shows such high-level thinking...
Maybe he did it because of the reason you stated (and Im been serious), regarding when it was, it was done when the full volume was released.

Quote:
Anyway, I guess the heat here didn't allow you to not come back even during your break...
You could say that, but still I don't think Im going to go for miles long posting for the time, I still don't want to stress myself of debating every single detail.
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Old 2007-07-22, 13:35   Link #426
yungz21
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[QUOTE=Sazelyt;1054857]That's good to know. Now I am relieved.
So, Sasuke turned his sharingan off, just for checking whether he can turn it off or not.




maybe sasuke thought the fight was over he didnt expect a mouth to come out of his stomach
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Old 2007-07-22, 14:45   Link #427
kishinfoulux
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Lol Oh of course keep on telling yourself that.
Ok. I will because it's the truth. Sasuke didn't defeat Deidara.
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Old 2007-07-22, 14:48   Link #428
Rurik
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Originally Posted by kishinfoulux View Post
Ok. I will because it's the truth. Sasuke didn't defeat Deidara.
No, that is not the truth, Don't know what type of logic you are trying to use, but Sasuke defeated Deidara regardless on how Deidara decided to end his life. is like saying that after a team is losing by 9 goals with only 3 seconds left they all decide to commit mass suicide and thus we can say the other team did not win. Thats Just funny.
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Old 2007-07-22, 15:11   Link #429
EgoSannin
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BIGGEST THEORIES ABOUT NARUTO AND CHAPTER!!!
by Myself.!!



THEORIES ABOUT CHAPTER 363
1)Surviving from explosion
-Sasuke summoned Manda
-Sasuke used his MS to create genjutsu on manda and forced manda to open his mouth.
-Sasuke entered Manda's body from Manda's mouth and hid well
-At this time manda took serious damage from explosion
-Sasuke NOT forced Manda to unsummon(This is where Sasuke is out of chakra)*** After that manda already woke up from genjutsu cause manda took serious physical damage
-But eitherway Manda unsummoned himself because Explosion damage was very critical.That was his move to escape from continuing explosion
-While escape happening Saigetsu looks at his Scroll of Summon Manda The Snake Boss.The snake mark was fading cause manda is already at battlefield.
-After fading disappears mark was bold again.Then Suigetsu used Summoning technique on scroll with Sasuke/Orochimaru's blood.He couldn't make by himself because in SnakeHermit Orochimaru's ScrollTome there is no name or fingerprint marking that includes Saigetsu.
-Then Saigetsu summoned Manda and Sasuke from other realm.

So Karin couldn't sensed Sasuke's chakra because he was not in this world.

Little Note About *** :Shinobi must read underneath the underneath and shinobi has a lots of power it's not just chakra power.Shinobi must use his head. =)


2)About Akatsuki
-Akatsuki is a big organization about making big money and gathering tailed demons to accomplish world domination.
-Yes Akatsuki's Leader is that guy with piercings.His name is Pein.But He is only Team Akatsuki's Leader not organization's boss.
-I think name Pein means "Pin(Piercings)" + "Pain(Barbed wire on his neck)" = "Pein" ? Maybe some kind a Mazohizm thingy.yes he has also Hypnotic Eyes."****"
PS: About Pein Theories read one named "****" below.

3)Tobi Issue
I think Tobi isn't dead.He is a new character and didn't make so much things.And He is Obito.It's not just the name thing (tobitobitobitobi).His Orange colored and right sided spiral mask proves it.He has one eye and it is Sharingan.And Akatsuki's minumum recruit level is s-jounin.So this explosion is Obito's 2nd survive.What a lucky shinobi =)

_____________


THEORIES ABOUT SHIPPUDEN[Hurricane Chronicles]

-You know that name Uzumaki Naruto means Whirlpool.Yes that spiral water thingy.You'll be surprised at the end of my theory.

-Fuuton:RasenShiruken is the combination of Wind element based shiruken and Rasengan (Spiral Sphere).It is Naruto's best weapon now but it's incomplete.

-Here is the fatal Theory.I think his complete justu will be named as :
"NimpouFuuton : ShippuRasenShiruken" means Legendery Hurricane with Windy Spikes..!! Rasengan's whirl making ability uses wind(air) to create Hurricanes and wind Shuriken's absolut cutting ability makes it ultimate jutsu.!!!

-He will going to use Water element.Because his true origin is water.Hidden village of rain makes it very very possible.And also ****Pein maybe Naruto's father/uncle/elder brother.????

-anyway Naruto Shippuden named series goal is telling the whole naruto world while naruto creates his ultimate Hurrica jutsu.So the name is Shippuden(Hurricane Chronicles).

-Maybe end of Shippuden we might see Naruto's first relative.Uzumaki something..
=)
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Old 2007-07-22, 15:31   Link #430
tatami
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Kishimmoto has never been 100% consistent with the Chakra pool, why he needs to start now?, because is Sasuke? there a lot of instances where the Character have done a lot of things, and still had enough Chakra to continue on.
ok i dont know why you try to bash everyone but i will answer rurik...

1st of all i am not an sasuke fan boy or sasuke fan boy basher. just understan it
2nd , when your chakra is out you are out.and yes it was never stated sasukes chakra was finished, only deidaras observation.

and my point is :

if sasuke did another chidori...that was ok
if sasuke summoned a snake like before...guess its ok too
if sasuke used doton...good for me
if sasuke used another variant of chidori...thats an option
if sasuke was saved...guess its at least logical
if sasuke dies...i can live with that.

but if sasuke summons manda which takes a lot of chakra i think (which is not a fact that tatoo on his arm may be a chackra pool for the summon) and cast a genjutsu on him (which again needs chakra for both genjutsu and sharingan) with his all torn battle damadged body which cant even stand up...that is...just...illogical....

and for me its not even about sasuke, its about the storytelling.
i liked kishis unpredictable moves in story, he makes everybody false...
but this is different now.back then it was logical.now we see deidei says sasuke cant even stand cuz his chakra is finished,next episode he summons manda do another flying thing cast a genjutsu....i was shocked when kakashi used double-chidori but it was cool.it was logical.it was a part of storyline.this is just a bad story ending.thats all.

we are no kids and story was not for kids back then...it musnt be like

"i did, it happened" by kishimato.

i mean cmon manda was a high class summon that can deal both 2 other giant summons at the same time.for gamabunta naruto needs kyubi chakra...its not a henge not a bunshin. dont tell me sasuke saved that much chakra...
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Old 2007-07-22, 15:37   Link #431
Zek
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The effects of low chakra and exhaustion on a ninja is one of the series' biggest inconsistencies. Don't think about it too much. Everybody always saves their biggest, most chakra-consuming jutsus for when they're totally worn out. I don't think summoning Manda on a near-empty tank is any less plausible than making a 10km explosion with no chakra left.
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Old 2007-07-22, 15:52   Link #432
Rurik
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Originally Posted by tatami View Post
ok i dont know why you try to bash everyone but i will answer rurik...

1st of all i am not an sasuke fan boy or sasuke fan boy basher. just understan it
2nd , when your chakra is out you are out.and yes it was never stated sasukes chakra was finished, only deidaras observation.

and my point is :

if sasuke did another chidori...that was ok
if sasuke summoned a snake like before...guess its ok too
if sasuke used doton...good for me
if sasuke used another variant of chidori...thats an option
if sasuke was saved...guess its at least logical
if sasuke dies...i can live with that.

but if sasuke summons manda which takes a lot of chakra i think (which is not a fact that tatoo on his arm may be a chackra pool for the summon) and cast a genjutsu on him (which again needs chakra for both genjutsu and sharingan) with his all torn battle damadged body which cant even stand up...that is...just...illogical....

and for me its not even about sasuke, its about the storytelling.
i liked kishis unpredictable moves in story, he makes everybody false...
but this is different now.back then it was logical.now we see deidei says sasuke cant even stand cuz his chakra is finished,next episode he summons manda do another flying thing cast a genjutsu....i was shocked when kakashi used double-chidori but it was cool.it was logical.it was a part of storyline.this is just a bad story ending.thats all.

we are no kids and story was not for kids back then...it musnt be like

"i did, it happened" by kishimato.

i mean cmon manda was a high class summon that can deal both 2 other giant summons at the same time.for gamabunta naruto needs kyubi chakra...its not a henge not a bunshin. dont tell me sasuke saved that much chakra...
My apologies if you tough I was trying to bash you, but I wasn't. neither saying you are either A Sasuke fan boy, Sasuke Fanboy basher, or A Sasuke hater, because I know you in posting level, An you have not shown to be one those.

I was just pointing you out, that no matter how you try to rationalize it, as I said before, Kishi has not been consistent with the Chakra pool, and I see no reason why he should start here.

is just as Zek said "I don't think summoning Manda on a near-empty tank is any less plausible than making a 10km explosion with no chakra left."

And think about it, this is just done to create "suspense", sure there are people that are going to have trouble with it, but I have my brother and my cousin that read the manga,both of them only read th Manga and don't do forum posting, and neither they had a complaint nor mentioned about Sasukes Chakra. base on that, an the reaction of most people here, what happened here isn't a big deal and if people did not see Sasuke saving himself with a Big Jutsu to counter a big Jutsu, then this people were lying to themselves, because thats what was going to happen.

I once again apologize if I gave the idea I was bashing you, but I was not doing so, And usually is not what I intend when I debate. and if do bashing, is when Other are doing so.

And Maybe Kishi is not doing good writing, but he is doing intelligent writing, because even if you hate what he is doing, you can't wait to see what is going to happen the next chapter.
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Old 2007-07-22, 16:09   Link #433
tatami
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post

I was just pointing you out, that no matter how you try to rationalize it, as I said before, Kishi has not been consistent with the Chakra pool, and I see no reason why he should start here.


And Maybe Kishi is not doing good writing, but he is doing intelligent writing, because even if you hate what he is doing, you can't wait to see what is going to happen the next chapter.
ok thats what i am saying rurik maybe he should start to be consistent?so that things like this wont happen?

i totally agree with you at the last part :d

cheers
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Old 2007-07-22, 16:17   Link #434
nine_tailed_kyuubi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EgoSannin View Post
BIGGEST THEORIES ABOUT NARUTO AND CHAPTER!!!
by Myself.!!



THEORIES ABOUT CHAPTER 363
1)Surviving from explosion
-Sasuke summoned Manda
-Sasuke used his MS to create genjutsu on manda and forced manda to open his mouth.
-Sasuke entered Manda's body from Manda's mouth and hid well
-At this time manda took serious damage from explosion
-Sasuke NOT forced Manda to unsummon(This is where Sasuke is out of chakra)*** After that manda already woke up from genjutsu cause manda took serious physical damage
-But eitherway Manda unsummoned himself because Explosion damage was very critical.That was his move to escape from continuing explosion
-While escape happening Saigetsu looks at his Scroll of Summon Manda The Snake Boss.The snake mark was fading cause manda is already at battlefield.
-After fading disappears mark was bold again.Then Suigetsu used Summoning technique on scroll with Sasuke/Orochimaru's blood.He couldn't make by himself because in SnakeHermit Orochimaru's ScrollTome there is no name or fingerprint marking that includes Saigetsu.
-Then Saigetsu summoned Manda and Sasuke from other realm.

So Karin couldn't sensed Sasuke's chakra because he was not in this world.

Little Note About *** :Shinobi must read underneath the underneath and shinobi has a lots of power it's not just chakra power.Shinobi must use his head. =)


2)About Akatsuki
-Akatsuki is a big organization about making big money and gathering tailed demons to accomplish world domination.
-Yes Akatsuki's Leader is that guy with piercings.His name is Pein.But He is only Team Akatsuki's Leader not organization's boss.
-I think name Pein means "Pin(Piercings)" + "Pain(Barbed wire on his neck)" = "Pein" ? Maybe some kind a Mazohizm thingy.yes he has also Hypnotic Eyes."****"
PS: About Pein Theories read one named "****" below.

3)Tobi Issue
I think Tobi isn't dead.He is a new character and didn't make so much things.And He is Obito.It's not just the name thing (tobitobitobitobi).His Orange colored and right sided spiral mask proves it.He has one eye and it is Sharingan.And Akatsuki's minumum recruit level is s-jounin.So this explosion is Obito's 2nd survive.What a lucky shinobi =)

_____________


THEORIES ABOUT SHIPPUDEN[Hurricane Chronicles]

-You know that name Uzumaki Naruto means Whirlpool.Yes that spiral water thingy.You'll be surprised at the end of my theory.

-Fuuton:RasenShiruken is the combination of Wind element based shiruken and Rasengan (Spiral Sphere).It is Naruto's best weapon now but it's incomplete.

-Here is the fatal Theory.I think his complete justu will be named as :
"NimpouFuuton : ShippuRasenShiruken" means Legendery Hurricane with Windy Spikes..!! Rasengan's whirl making ability uses wind(air) to create Hurricanes and wind Shuriken's absolut cutting ability makes it ultimate jutsu.!!!

-He will going to use Water element.Because his true origin is water.Hidden village of rain makes it very very possible.And also ****Pein maybe Naruto's father/uncle/elder brother.????

-anyway Naruto Shippuden named series goal is telling the whole naruto world while naruto creates his ultimate Hurrica jutsu.So the name is Shippuden(Hurricane Chronicles).

-Maybe end of Shippuden we might see Naruto's first relative.Uzumaki something..
=)

Nice post man
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Old 2007-07-22, 16:23   Link #435
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
is just as Zek said [I]"I don't think summoning Manda on a near-empty tank is any less plausible than making a 10km explosion with no chakra left."
You are still limiting that to summoning manda. That is not the case. In the previous chapter thread, I considered the possibility of him summoning manda. The problem is, many things that can take place alone, based on the conditions, took place together.

(the below is a repeat of what I said earlier, so patience is strongly advised)

When the bomb is about to explode (when it started its process, Sasuke was looking his eyes wide open, no action there), Sasuke in that worned out situation, enough to disturb him to the level of turning off his sharingan (almost no chakra) and not being able to get up (not enough stamina), summoned Manda. Then, you would expect him to not even stand up after using that much chakra in that worn out situation. That is not the case. He continued his lightning speed movements, cast, possibly, a very powerful genjutsu on Manda, enough to control that kind of beast and turn its eyes to Sharingan eyes. Sasuke still is very healthy even at that moment, despite what we had observed earlier, two jutsu before. He then moved to Manda's mouth and continue his control of Manda. Still, it is not enough, all of those took place when Deidara is about to explode, creating an explosion of 10km wide, has enough power to kill Manda, one of the strongest creatures ever, and almost nothing happens to Sasuke, during that explosion. The explosion cannot even penetrate Manda's mouth but it is enough to kill him. Interesting isn't it, for an animal that can get rid of its skin, and may even regenerate.

To be honest, this consecutive happenings are very much beyond of what we had seen earlier. And, that is the origin of discomfort. A small kid may not take into account all of those to evaluate the fight, may just look at the result and be happy with it (like a few kids here, as indicated by the shown age by some). But, we are not among those, so we should be more attentive of what we observe.
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Old 2007-07-22, 16:26   Link #436
EvolutionXI
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Originally Posted by EgoSannin View Post
-Sasuke NOT forced Manda to unsummon(This is where Sasuke is out of chakra)*** After that manda already woke up from genjutsu cause manda took serious physical damage
-But eitherway Manda unsummoned himself because Explosion damage was very critical.That was his move to escape from continuing explosion
Actually, when Suigetsu resummons Manda, you can see the sharingan dot marks on his eyes, which is what informs Suigetsu that Sasuke used a the sharingan to cast genjutsu on him. So Manda didn't wake up due to the explosion and unsummon himself. After he was resummoned, the genjutsu is released after Sasuke is out safely, which leads to Manda waking up and realizing it and saying the things he said.
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Old 2007-07-22, 16:41   Link #437
Rurik
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ok thats what i am saying rurik maybe he should start to be consistent?so that things like this wont happen?

i totally agree with you at the last part :d

cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
You are still limiting that to summoning manda. That is not the case. In the previous chapter thread, I considered the possibility of him summoning manda. The problem is, many things that can take place alone, based on the conditions, took place together.

(the below is a repeat of what I said earlier, so patience is strongly advised)

When the bomb is about to explode (when it started its process, Sasuke was looking his eyes wide open, no action there), Sasuke in that worned out situation, enough to disturb him to the level of turning off his sharingan (almost no chakra) and not being able to get up (not enough stamina), summoned Manda. Then, you would expect him to not even stand up after using that much chakra in that worn out situation. That is not the case. He continued his lightning speed movements, cast, possibly, a very powerful genjutsu on Manda, enough to control that kind of beast and turn its eyes to Sharingan eyes. Sasuke still is very healthy even at that moment, despite what we had observed earlier, two jutsu before. He then moved to Manda's mouth and continue his control of Manda. Still, it is not enough, all of those took place when Deidara is about to explode, creating an explosion of 10km wide, has enough power to kill Manda, one of the strongest creatures ever, and almost nothing happens to Sasuke, during that explosion. The explosion cannot even penetrate Manda's mouth but it is enough to kill him. Interesting isn't it, for an animal that can get rid of its skin.

To be honest, this consecutive happenings are very much beyond of what we had seen earlier. And, that is the origin of discomfort. A small kid may not take into account all of those to evaluate the fight, may just look at the result and be happy with it. But, we are not among those, so we should be more attentive of what we observe.
Because more or less you have the same opinion Ill try to respond my Opinion about it:


Well, My brother and cousin are 20 and 25 respectively (you don't want to know how old am I ). and they did not had trouble with it, it is normal that a group of people don't like this at all (and not even based on if you hate or not the character). but, the point here that even after all the inconsistency, this still falls under the category of doing that for the sake of entertainment and plot.

I assume you have seen lots of anime, I'm not asking to make a comparison, but, How many times you have seen people saying that they are completely exhausted, were out, no energy left, "I will Die after that", "I can only use it once" etc and when they are about to get killed, the chapter/episode ends and then in the next chapter you see the character doing something that basically contradicts what he said before, I cant named particular cases, but for me is something I have seen a lot of time.

The same case of the explosion, how many times you see in a movie a Time bomb only having 5 seconds left, and the person can scape something that should take them minutes to do so, and then they do escape, or anime, where you see the explosion go off on the person face, but at the end he miraculously had time to get out of it?

all of this are things that I find it common to happen, some are more far fetched than others, but inside the illogical world they are conceived, we just have to live trough it.

Saze, I did not addressed the points you mentioned about how Sasuke did that, because I mentioned some days ago that I was not going to argue about how that happened, I'm defending Kishimoto for it, I however, not saying this choice was the perfect one.
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Old 2007-07-22, 16:47   Link #438
EgoSannin
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Originally Posted by EvolutionXI View Post
Actually, when Suigetsu resummons Manda, you can see the sharingan dot marks on his eyes, which is what informs Suigetsu that Sasuke used a the sharingan to cast genjutsu on him. So Manda didn't wake up due to the explosion and unsummon himself. After he was resummoned, the genjutsu is released after Sasuke is out safely, which leads to Manda waking up and realizing it and saying the things he said.

i thought as sharingan markings aren't fades easily..

Hmm..i saw your idea at the beginning but here is my new theory then.

-i think sasuke used his sharingan on manda again.When Saigetsu summons manda,manda rejected summoning jutsu.Then sasuke forced manda to accept summoning...?

How about it?
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Old 2007-07-22, 17:40   Link #439
Monkey D. Luffy
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: U.S.A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EgoSannin View Post
i thought as sharingan markings aren't fades easily..

Hmm..i saw your idea at the beginning but here is my new theory then.

-i think sasuke used his sharingan on manda again.When Saigetsu summons manda,manda rejected summoning jutsu.Then sasuke forced manda to accept summoning...?

How about it?
I think that's way to compilcated, Suigetsu just was able to summon Manda while Sasuke was still using Genjutsu on it, I don't think Manda possed any threat against it.
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Old 2007-07-22, 17:46   Link #440
tatami
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Turkey
Age: 32
by the way best part of this episode was that:

sasuke didnt obteined MS yet...i mean it can be used for last resort move as kakashi did...so if he had MS he should have use it right? i hope so (yet it is not a fact)
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