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View Poll Results: Ratings for Shippuuden 20
Perfect 10 5 5.56%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 7 7.78%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 14.44%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 13.33%
6 out of 10 : Average 24 26.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 13 14.44%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 3.33%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 4.44%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 3.33%
1 out of 10 : Painful 6 6.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-07-26, 14:17   Link #101
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I believe, the majority of the posts target the manga not the anime, so, it is not a problem, that the anime sucks, regardless of how it would have started. If anyone hasn't changed their mind by now, that the anime is not getting any better, well, then, they should continue to enjoy this, and, that wouldn't have changed even if the anime wouldn't have started the way you have approved...
Correct, but also the point of that many people have just decided to accept that the Anime is not going to get any better, maybe now and then they do, but I don’t think we are going to see any mayor difference unless the Anime team that work with this loose their rights to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Huh? In this thread (the weekly anime ep thread) the anime is being targeted much more...Like the poster above me lots of people have said if they just followed the manga progressively instead of expanding it nonsensically it would be better...
And this is something I really don’t get from those who are manga readers, I’m a Manga reader, and at least this episode is a reflection of the old series.

So, either these manga readers don’t remember well the manga chapters that are been animated in this episode, or they Don’t recall well how Manga chapters were animated in the first part of the series.

Quote:
Does that matter? Whether it's a gimmick or a ploy or whatever if it was GOOD people would be praising it...All that matters is whether it's GOOD or not and the majority is overwhelmingly not in agreement with you...The show has a totally different feel man, if you can't see that...
I think repating myself, but what the heck:

No, im not saying is better than Part 1, Im not even saying the series overall is good - what I’m talking about is that you can’t make a comparison saying “If part 1 would had started like part 2…” is not the same because part 1 is the series starting, this one is the continuation of the series, two different instances. And my other point is that this episode is basically the same as your usual Naruto part 1 episode.

Also, check that the majority of people find this episode at worst average, only 30% finds it to be bellow average, and taking Away the average votes, more people find this episode to be good, to those that find it bad. And I bet that you are going to find the same statistic since the last 8 chapters.


Quote:
Well some of your fellow manga heads have disagreed with you stating that if Shippuden just followed the manga more strictly (or was just better in it's presentation of key-events) it wouldn't be as much of the muddled mess it currently is...Hell even you told me to start reading the manga because the anime is so unl33t right now...Don't get it twisted I just like to debate the issues...It's something to do..I'll still watch Naruto and I'm sure at some point it'll have one of those ridiculously awesome episodes that made it the "must-watch" shonen-fighter of this decade but as of now it's hype with little of the goose-bump inducing moments that part 1 introduced to me...
Well, I was referring to the last Anime episode, episode 20, follows the same pattern as any Naruto anime episode, A combination between: direct manga info, Flashbacks, and cuts between fight and Naruto doing nothing. What the poster Lecrew asked for, is basically non existent trough the entire series.

The only real different between this episode (episode 20) and the old series episode is the BGM.


What I think is people wanted for Shipuden to be spoiler free, thanks to all that time of just filler episode, but That was not going to happen, If Naruto survived those stupid fillers, then taking bits of Manga info to create a twisted story with the use of filler would just be an upgrade of the filler arc.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2007-07-26 at 14:33.
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Old 2007-07-26, 15:10   Link #102
wingdarkness
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Well I also voted the ep a 6...Thought I was gonna give it a 7 but it's redundant lunacy just annoys me so much (Sakura's improvement despite a good explanation irks me still-Has the feel of Krillen going SSJ)...But it's like a sports team that wins the championship a few times, you always expect them to be in the hunt...So basically eventhough I thought the animation was pretty good and the action concerning the needles was pretty good doesn't mean that level of stuff overly impresses me..I want the championship episode, or atleast a playoff episode...Hell Game of The Week will do...

Now for the part 1//part 2 comparison the difference is in the lack of a payoff...You are comparing an average Naruto part 1 ep to this ep, instead of comparing an average part 1 PROGRESSION...In part 1 once they got thru the bull$hit you had a high level fight-a payoff..Shippuden has had almost none of this...Most of the fights are segmented in such a cut-edit fashion you can't even appreciate or enjoy any of it in it's entirety...That's not to suggest that lots of the segmented action hasn't been good but the quality overall hasn't been as consistent as part 1 as I remember it...This show (or perhaps even the manga) has no concept of showing us a completion of one aspect of the fighting...

Generally speaking fights like Haku-Sasuke-Naruto, Rock Lee-Gaara, Kimmimaru-Rock Lee, Naruto-Gaara, Sandaime-Oro, etc. (despite being partial and cut to show other events or plot-points) seem to have a progressive nature to it (in-effect when we return to the fight THE FIGHT IS HAPPENING as oppose to shippudden which all too often returns to them discussing the impending fight or strategy for the fight or simply classic stance (or some redundant action that has already been shown offering nothing new) ...That's the difference...That's the frustration...Couple that with the BGM's, asinine pacing, and a lack of just superficial goodness from the main character and this is what you have, something very close to apathetic...
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Old 2007-07-26, 15:27   Link #103
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Now for the part 1//part 2 comparison the difference is in the lack of a payoff...You are comparing an average Naruto part 1 ep to this ep, instead of comparing an average part 1 PROGRESSION...In part 1 once they got thru the bull$hit you had a high level fight-a payoff..Shippuden has had almost none of this...Most of the fights are segmented in such a cut-edit fashion you can't even appreciate or enjoy any of it in it's entirety...That's not to suggest that lots of segmented action hasn't been good but the quality overall hasn't been as consistent as part 1 as I remember it...This show (or perhaps even the manga) has no concept of showing us a completion of one aspect of the fighting...

Generally speaking fights like Haku-Sasuke-Naruto, Rock Lee-Gaara, Kimmimaru-Rock Lee, Naruto-Gaara, Sandaime-Oro, etc. (despite being partial and cut to show other events or plot-points) seem to have a progressive nature to it (in-effect when we return to the fight THE FIGHT IS HAPPENING as oppose to shippudden which returns to them discussing the impending fight or strategy for the fight or simply classic stance (or some redundant action that has already been shown offering nothing new) ...That's the difference...That's the frustration...Couple that with the BGM's, asinine pacing, and a lack of just superficial goodness from the main character and this is what you have, something very close to apathetic...

Well, this is then were I say: you are getting the same as the Manga, but the Anime adaptation of it. the Manga chapters that this Anime episode is covering seems better because you don’t have this cuts on the action that send you to another plot, but in essence, what you saw here, Chiyo talking to Sakura and the other part of Kakashi and Naruto with Deidara are the same as the Manga.

And you know, now that I think about it a good reason why some Manga readers are complaining so much, is because a good deal of those readers begun to read the Manga when the Filler episodes started, and they did not get to live trough Naruto part 1 animated while reading the Manga. For example, when the fight of Naruto and Sasuke was animated, is the same exact thing Shipuden is doing now. Also Haku vs Sasuke before the moment Naruto reached the bridge, was also the same.

And, given I could not say more to not get banned, I just going to say, the complaint of the Main character lack of doing something good was identical when it happened in the Manga. Also, I’m waiting to see how the anime team is going to handle this fight (the other fights were filler meaningless fights, even within the Manga) to give you a final verdict of what I think of it.
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Old 2007-07-26, 15:52   Link #104
wingdarkness
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So in-effect you're saying the anime's handling of manga source material in part 1 was good (a bit contrary to your "average Naruto ep" comparison) while in part 2 it's basically following the manga closley and more or less is lacking in anyones mind like the manga is lacking...The fact that filler-jumpers (newer manga readers) seem to be frustrated more, in your opinion, suggests also that part 1 was done much better, no? Your own account based on your part 1 frustrations bares this out...So in a nutshell (at this point, discarding the gimmick or non gimmick that part 2 is or is not), Part 2 animated is simply worse than part 1 (Which I believe--Which I've been saying)...This is the summation of what you are saying (until further events somehow change this)...
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Old 2007-07-26, 16:19   Link #105
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
So in-effect you're saying the anime's handling of manga source material in part 1 was good (a bit contrary to your "average Naruto ep" comparison) while in part 2 it's basically following the manga closley and more or less is lacking in anyones mind like the manga is lacking...The fact that filler-jumpers (newer manga readers) seem to be frustrated more, in your opinion, suggests also that part 1 was done much better, no? Your own account based your part 1 frustrations bares this out...So in a nutshell (at this point, discarding the gimmick or non gimmick that part 2 is or is not), Part 2 animated is simply worse than part 1 (Which I believe)...This is the summation of what you are saying (until further events somehow change this)...
I could say that you got my point right, but To sum it up

- IMO, As of now, overall, Naruto shipuden is not better than Overall Part 1. (not that I’m saying is Bad – but not saying is good either).

-The last 5 or 6 Naruto shipudden episode have followed your average part 1 episode formula (i.e. I don’t find any difference at all).

- Naruto up to this point after the time skip was not that good in the manga, by the time this Manga chapters were released, people were saying that Naruto was not the same as before. I’ll Say the people compared them mostly with the Zabuza arc or the Chuni arc (similar to what you see people doing now).


- I think that those "filler-jumpers" are frustrated because they never got to live reading the manga and seen Anime part 1 (notice Im saying "live" that is a bit different than going now and red all the manga chapters in part 1).
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Old 2007-07-26, 16:50   Link #106
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
So in-effect you're saying the anime's handling of manga source material in part 1 was good (a bit contrary to your "average Naruto ep" comparison) while in part 2 it's basically following the manga closley and more or less is lacking in anyones mind like the manga is lacking...
I don't know what Rurik is saying, but the anime in part II is not following the manga closely. It has lots of ups and downs. It doesn't allow the viewer to enter the mood most of the time by slowing the pace unnecessarily and adding fillers that do not even aim to provide consistency (normally, you would expect funny fillers when the mood is calm, and tension-improving fillers when it is stressful, it is nothing like that).

And Rurik gave the ratio to show that not-closely following clearly (though, he evaluates differently), 1.43 chapters per episode, and this is the time you would expect, not 1.85 chapters per episode, but more like close to 2 chapters per episodes because of the action content and the tension-filled pace in the manga. And, if you project this ratio into duration of anime episode, it would make around 6 minutes of fillers per episode. That is a pretty big amount, considering that, for such an anime, even 1 minute break should be undesirable.
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Old 2007-07-26, 17:13   Link #107
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^That's why I was finding it hard to believe the manga could be as bad, because the lulls in non-animated form would have to be much much worse IMO just by default (although I am not an avid manga reader--Just using my common sense on that)...Rurik even seems to be glazing over the fact the pacings based on how they nonsensically cut and shift from scene to scene isn't that big an issue based on the anime...If the manga doesn't really do that, like the anime DOES, that's a big difference in overall flow...An episode like ep 20 would be fine if it focused on Sasori's end for the first half of the ep, then shows Naruto's part, then concluding with Sasori's part (instead of basically doing a shift-shift shift-shift between those developments)...
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Old 2007-07-26, 23:45   Link #108
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The fault of the anime team is (from my POV) is the inappropriate scene jumping and incorrect use of filler jokes.. the Gai's team chant for example is really kills the mood totally.

In a way, Rurik is right, but I cant deny that wing is also correct in his assesment
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Old 2007-07-27, 08:07   Link #109
Rurik
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I think my post are not been paying attention to, I have not say the anime overall has done so, I’m talking about the latest chapters, one of my post said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
But consider this, in the last 7 Episodes Shipuden have covered 10 Manga chapters, meaning that from this point on Shipuden has had a ratio of 1.5 Manga chapters per episode, that’s a difference of just 0.3 Compared to part 1 that had usually a ratio of 1.8 chapters per Anime episode.
That ratio was made after reviewing the Manga, whereas the complete Shipuden Ratio is around 1 Manga chapter per episode (Yikes).

And the latest chapter follow the formula Anime team have also followed (more specifically chapter 20), they made this exact same cuts in the fight for the necessity of going to where Naruto is. The cuts to jump to another scene have always been there, whereas is been handle in a less proper way is a different story.

Is a have say, compared to what I saw in part 1, there is really no difference at all, and I remember like now how people were more or less complaining with the Anime team with the Tsunade arc, and the Chase Sasuke arc, specifically the Sasuke and Naruto fight and the Itachi flashback.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
^That's why I was finding it hard to believe the manga could be as bad, because the lulls in non-animated form would have to be much much worse IMO just by default (although I am not an avid manga reader--Just using my common sense on that)...Rurik even seems to be glazing over the fact the pacings based on how they nonsensically cut and shift from scene to scene isn't that big an issue based on the anime...If the manga doesn't really do that, like the anime DOES, that's a big difference in overall flow...An episode like ep 20 would be fine if it focused on Sasori's end for the first half of the ep, then shows Naruto's part, then concluding with Sasori's part (instead of basically doing a shift-shift shift-shift between those developments)...
The last chapter is a faithfull representation of what happened in part 1, not only the fight of Sasori vs Chiyo and Sakura is going to really start this upcoming episode, but the filler are almost non-existent here, I could be wrong because I saw 19 and 20 one after the other, but werent in Episode 20 cuts to Gai team fighting?

That’s something else, we are getting a better treatment that I tought, were are been shown bit of the Team gai fight, whereas a good amount of people tought the Anime team was going to take a good advantage of this and create complete filler fights of team Gai.

As I said, I can’t judge the real quality if the Anime team completley until the real fight that is coming now is produced.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2007-07-27 at 08:18.
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