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View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 8 17.02%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 7 14.89%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 40.43%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 12.77%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 12.77%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 2.13%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-08-02, 21:24   Link #581
krisslanza
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Join Date: May 2007
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Oh yup, Chaos is broken. Who knows how fix him?

Oh it's an actual line? XD My friend mentioned it for some reason that I don't remember... But it's a very true line.
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Old 2007-08-02, 21:29   Link #582
Mirificus
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Oh it's an actual line? XD My friend mentioned it for some reason that I don't remember... But it's a very true line.
The proverb is, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
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Old 2007-08-03, 01:50   Link #583
Fabien
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Oh yup, Chaos is broken. Who knows how fix him?
I'm pretty sure Jail could. Shall we ask him?
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Old 2007-08-03, 01:51   Link #584
Fabien
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Yes, but you didn't overlook the 'comforting' part did you? Cause that's the point I'm getting.

Doctors/nurses would at least attempt to calm the child down.
Some (most?) doctors would. Some just don't care. Which doesn't make them less efficient at treating the medical problem.
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Old 2007-08-03, 02:15   Link #585
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
I'm pretty sure Jail could. Shall we ask him?
I only need 'cetain' simple things to revive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
Some (most?) doctors would. Some just don't care. Which doesn't make them less efficient at treating the medical problem.
Very very few people are a Dr House, they can be asshole AND not be good at their jobs. It's not a character trade.

You keep calling it a medical problem, but the truth is that he's doing this for himself, Vivio isn't sick.

Hmmm, I think I can hear the blast-doors closing...
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Old 2007-08-03, 02:17   Link #586
An Hero in Disguise
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You keep calling it a medical problem, but the truth is that he's doing this for himself, Vivio isn't sick.

Hmmm, I think I can hear the blast-doors closing...
He's doing it for the whole mankind! To cure it from the sickness that is TSAB!

I think you hear it right.
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Old 2007-08-03, 02:28   Link #587
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
As a kid, I was very afraid of doctors. (Well, I still am, but I've gotten better at hiding it ). I don't remember well, but before a shot, I may have been crying as much as Vivio at the same age.
I know, I was scared at well, but did you notice that the doctor that helped you did not tie you up, did not laugh like an insane scientist, did care about your feelings and did everything to calm you and make everything as quick as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
And the bind is definitely the less painful way to make sure she'll stay still.
Less painfull then sleep or illusions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
I'm pretty sure Jail could. Shall we ask him?
*gets visions of Chaos bound with Jail laughing while bringing a relic closer to Chaos*

Let's... not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
Some (most?) doctors would. Some just don't care. Which doesn't make them less efficient at treating the medical problem.
Change the 'some' to very few. And yes, it does make them less efficient. Why? Because they don't care. You are always less cautious when doing things you don't care about, which means doctors that don't care about patients are less efficient.
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Old 2007-08-03, 02:46   Link #588
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I know, I was scared at well, but did you notice that the doctor that helped you did not tie you up,
If the operation required that you hold still, then tying you up is a logical move.

Quote:
did not laugh like an insane scientist,
True, but Vivio's so scared already I bet it made no difference. When you are talking about the culmination of a great plan, I'd forgive him for indulging himself for a minute.

Quote:
did care about your feelings and did everything to calm you and make everything as quick as possible.
Not doing any comforting is a way of speeding up the process.

Quote:
Less painfull then sleep or illusions?
Proof that the operation/experiment/whatever can be done just as well after anaesthesia?
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Old 2007-08-03, 02:47   Link #589
Fabien
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You keep calling it a medical problem, but the truth is that he's doing this for himself, Vivio isn't sick.
So why does she spend most of her time crying, even when she's with Nanoha?

Bad jokes aside, I agree with you on that point. He's doing it because it's his passion. He's about to achieve his masterpiece; it's not that surprising to see him oblivious to anything else.

But my point was: he isn't a sadist, he doesn't enjoy inflicting pain; he just doesn't care. Or maybe he doesn't even notice.
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Old 2007-08-03, 02:51   Link #590
Fabien
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
[about the bind]
Less painfull then sleep or illusions?
AFAIK, a bind is not especially painful.
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Old 2007-08-03, 02:58   Link #591
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
So why does she spend most of her time crying, even when she's with Nanoha?
But she smiled a good number of time when she's with her

And going by your theory, the problem should be in nanoha, seeing how many girls cry around her as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
Bad jokes aside, I agree with you on that point. He's doing it because it's his passion. He's about to achieve his masterpiece; it's not that surprising to see him oblivious to anything else.
I don't disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
But my point was: he isn't a sadist, he doesn't enjoy inflicting pain; he just doesn't care. Or maybe he doesn't even notice.
I don't disagree.
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:00   Link #592
Fabien
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
But she smiled a good number of time when she's with her
First she cried, and after that she smiled.
Give a chance, and a bit more time, to Jail...

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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
And going by your theory, the problem should be in nanoha, seeing how many girls cry around her as well
Yup, she ain't called the White Devil for nothing.
It seems contagious, BTW: in this episode, lots of girls are crying when with Fate-chan.
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:01   Link #593
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
If the operation required that you hold still, then tying you up is a logical move.
Sedating even more so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
True, but Vivio's so scared already I bet it made no difference. When you are talking about the culmination of a great plan, I'd forgive him for indulging himself for a minute.
That's not the point, the point is that you try to portray him as humane. Laughing while a little kid is absolutely terrified of you and not caring one bit is not humane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Not doing any comforting is a way of speeding up the process.
But again, it's not humane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Proof that the operation/experiment/whatever can be done just as well after anaesthesia?
Proof that it can't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
But my point was: he isn't a sadist, he doesn't enjoy inflicting pain; he just doesn't care. Or maybe he doesn't even notice.
Not caring about inflicting pain or fear to achieve your goals is sadistic on its own, you know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien View Post
AFAIK, a bind is not especially painful.
Neither is sedation, a sleep spell or an illusion. All of which would have had the added bonus of a not-terrified Vivio.
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:10   Link #594
Nightengale
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Sedating even more so.
But Jail clearly wants immediate reaction and results. Since it's half-proven (( by Zest/Relic Weapon connection )) that no physical changes occur, so it's not like the changes are visible with sedation.

I mean, he's been pretty patient considering how badly he wants Vivio. Now that he's gotten her hands on her, I'm surprised he waited A WHOLE DAY before inserting it into her.

Shows that for all his craziness, he cares too, about Cinque, Nove and Ginga...a little.
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:19   Link #595
Keroko
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But Jail clearly wants immediate reaction and results. Since it's half-proven (( by Zest/Relic Weapon connection )) that no physical changes occur, so it's not like the changes are visible with sedation.
*Tilts head* Must've missed that, could you expand on that a little?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
I mean, he's been pretty patient considering how badly he wants Vivio. Now that he's gotten her hands on her, I'm surprised he waited A WHOLE DAY before inserting it into her.

Shows that for all his craziness, he cares too, about Cinque, Nove and Ginga...a little.
I fail to see how making a little girl shiver in fear for a whole day shows he cares.

And he still needs the numbers, getting rid of them now would prove counter-active.
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:24   Link #596
Nightengale
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*Tilts head* Must've missed that, could you expand on that a little?
Implications :

Zest and Lutecia are said to be Relic Weapons = involved with Relics.

Zest said he was a dead man who's living on borrowed time before returning to where he should belong. Jail said Relic Core XI can revive Rider-lookalike = Relic possibly restores life, memories, conscience, whatever.

Regius recognizes Zest = No physical changes to Zest.

So, it can be assumed implanting Relics DOES NOT induce physical changes, and thus any legit changes (( in the heart, conscious, action, personality, magic, etc )) can only be seen when conscious.

So, Jail needs her awake. It's not like calming her down will really work (( Quattro's NOT helping though )), so why bother?
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:32   Link #597
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Implications :

Zest and Lutecia are said to be Relic Weapons = involved with Relics.

Zest said he was a dead man who's living on borrowed time before returning to where he should belong. Jail said Relic Core XI can revive Rider-lookalike = Relic possibly restores life, memories, conscience, whatever.

Regius recognizes Zest = No physical changes to Zest.

So, it can be assumed implanting Relics DOES NOT induce physical changes, and thus any legit changes (( in the heart, conscious, action, personality, magic, etc )) can only be seen when conscious.

So, Jail needs her awake. It's not like calming her down will really work (( Quattro's NOT helping though )), so why bother?
A simple illusion would do, making Vivio see something different, like still being at RF6. Even if the change is not physical, you would notice a change in behaviour.
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:33   Link #598
Fabien
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Not caring about inflicting pain or fear to achieve your goals is sadistic on its own, you know...
Merriam-Webster defines sadism as "excessive cruelty".

So during nearly a whole minute, we see that the easily-scared Vivio is really scared. And that might even carry on for a few minutes.
OK, it's not really humane not to comfort her. It's debatable whether doing what has to be done as fast as possible, so that it's over as soon as possible, is a good idea or not.
But anyway, it's hardly "excessive cruelty".
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:34   Link #599
FlameSparkZ
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
So, Jail needs her awake. It's not like calming her down will really work (( Quattro's NOT helping though )), so why bother?
Yeah...

But from Vivio's reaction from being bond (and how she was found by the Forwards) She must have gone through what Jail was about to do to her, since she immediatelty recognized the Relic's case when Jail and Uno entered the room.

Before that, she was just terrified, probably because Vivio knew she was going to be experimented on...
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Old 2007-08-03, 03:35   Link #600
Fabien
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A simple illusion would do, making Vivio see something different, like still being at RF6.
What makes you think she wouldn't see through the illusion? Remember, Vivio is a powerful (if latent) mage.
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