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Old 2007-09-20, 01:58   Link #141
Confessa
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Gah, Sukoshi!!! Thank you soooooooo much!! How can I ever repay you?!! I have been searching for that for soooo long!!!

Ah, it would have been nice for Sei and Shimako to kiss.

"Other such things"???
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Old 2007-09-20, 03:09   Link #142
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"Other Such Things" was a lame aftereffect of my translation (so please excuse it -_-''), but I hope it gets the point across. Basically, Sei was saying that she would be willing to go "all the way" (there's no actual explanation of "all the way" in the original Japanese, by the way) if Shimako wanted her to. For reference, I'll copy/paste the line I'm talking about.

Quote:
「選挙の時みたいに抱きしめようか。お望みなら、キスでも何でもしてあげるよ」
I didn't like the decision of the anime to place Ibara no Mori right before the end of the anime (I can't remember if this happens in the manga, but I don't think so), because in the novels, Sei appears randomly and leaves vague references to her feelings during and slightly before the time she was with Shiori, which really gives you a perspective on her that's missing otherwise.

Last edited by Sukoshi; 2007-09-20 at 08:53.
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Old 2007-09-21, 00:52   Link #143
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Sei also asked again Shimako if she liked to kiss her or do anything Shimako asked after the date with Shizuka. (The scene where Shimako keeled to Sei in the Yamayurikai Mansion) Of course, Shimako refused.. =P

I wonder why these two scenes with Sei offering Shimako a kiss were not included in the anime?
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Old 2007-09-23, 00:18   Link #144
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Question, I've been wondering..


1.) Why did Sei felt she was a black sheep?
2.) Why did she feel she was a vast dry wasteland?

I really never knew the answer..
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Old 2007-09-23, 21:10   Link #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
Question, I've been wondering..


1.) Why did Sei felt she was a black sheep?
2.) Why did she feel she was a vast dry wasteland?

I really never knew the answer..
I think Sei viewed herself as a 'black sheep' because she couldn't conform to what everyone expected of her. She was rebellious, aloof and world-weary, not able to fit in easily with the 'pure maidens' surrounding her at Lillian. I think it was also hinted that Sei was not especially religious, clearly having a few doubts about the beliefs she had been encouraged to follow, and this obviously made her feel even more like an outcast amongst so many devout Catholic girls. I also think she resented being in the Yamayurikai, as she became a focus of attention and admiration for the whole school despite her many problems with its values and traditions.

When she described herself as a 'wasteland', I think she was referring to her emotional nature at the time, before she fell in love with Shiori. She was angry and resentful, close to a very select few, not allowing anyone 'into' the depths of her soul. Because she closed herself up, she became almost 'barren', like a wasteland.
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Old 2007-09-26, 04:48   Link #146
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@Sarah
But why was she "rebellious, aloof and world-weary" in the first place?
I don't really think that being not religious made her a black sheep, if we look at the series, the characters don't even discuss religion throughout.. And besides, religion doesn't make one feel she's a black sheep, unless you're in a nun convention..

Just stating my point of view.. =P

The "wasteland" stuff was lovely, the way you put it.. n_n
Couldn't agree more..
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Old 2007-09-26, 07:13   Link #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
@Sarah
But why was she "rebellious, aloof and world-weary" in the first place?
I don't really think that being not religious made her a black sheep, if we look at the series, the characters don't even discuss religion throughout.. And besides, religion doesn't make one feel she's a black sheep, unless you're in a nun convention..

Just stating my point of view.. =P

The "wasteland" stuff was lovely, the way you put it.. n_n
Couldn't agree more..
My thoughts are that Sei feels she is different and stands out from other people, not just in terms of physical appearance (eg. looking "foreign") but also in terms of her approach to life. The majority of the other girls at Lillian are to always be poised and dignified, which seemingly conflicts with Sei's personality, or my perception of it as being a bit of a goofball. Sometimes being singled out as being different early on, (as Sei was) can make people use it as a shield, and try to encourage this difference or perception of it.

In terms of religion not being a factor in Sei feeling like a black sheep, I would beg to differ. The thread of religion runs all through Marimite (from praying in front of the statue, to the rosaries etc.) and has a large impact on the girls school lives. Being an atheist in a religious school (where a large majority of the students also practice the religion) can really make you feel like a black sheep, especially when the teachings really conflict with your own belief system. I speak from first hand experience
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Old 2007-09-26, 14:07   Link #148
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Ohh, I see.. Thank you..
So it's either a shield or the religion, maybe more on the religion eh?

Spoiler for On why I think it wasn't religion (my rant, off topic):


So, well, that's just me and my experience, but all people are different, I guess.. =P
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Old 2007-09-27, 12:49   Link #149
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I've always thought that Sei being a dry wasteland or a black sheep was caused by disillusionment. It seemed to me like she had grown up knowing Lillian as a school of perfect maidens, and when she reached a certain age, she started realizing that she herself wasn't the "maiden" that everyone else was. It broke her child-like naivete about perfection and sort of ostracised her from the rest, because she criticized herself of being imperfect (of being human) when she thought that everyone else wasn't. My guess is that the intense alienation eventually became jealousy in her, and she became hateful towards others, which is why she always talks about not wanting to talk to others or being weary of her everyday life.
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Old 2007-09-28, 00:14   Link #150
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Yeah, Sei herself has a lot of insecurities of being an 'anchor' to anyone. She didn't want to bother anyone as to she feels she will only weigh or burden them down.


Anyway, OMG I re-watch the 1st season, and Yumi said something like, "I was just fine watching her from afar, but to be near her all of a sudden it's too much.. I have feelings for Sachiko-sama, why can't Sachiko-sama understand that?"

Now, doesn't THAT settle it?
Can't be any other thoughts.. Oh yes! I am happeeehhhh~!!!
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Old 2007-09-29, 07:46   Link #151
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What I wanna know, is that why did the other girls break-up with their soeurs when Rei and Yoshino broke up one time?
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Old 2007-09-29, 07:55   Link #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonjour View Post
Anyway, OMG I re-watch the 1st season, and Yumi said something like, "I was just fine watching her from afar, but to be near her all of a sudden it's too much.. I have feelings for Sachiko-sama, why can't Sachiko-sama understand that?"

Now, doesn't THAT settle it?
Can't be any other thoughts.. Oh yes! I am happeeehhhh~!!!
What she actually says is:

『すきだから。サチコーさまがすきだから。。。』 (Suki dakara. Sachiko-sama ga suki dakara...)

Which, in reality, is closer to: "Because I like her, because I like Sachiko-sama..."

The fansubbers always take some liberties with the script to make it more relevant/fluent to non-japanese speakers, which sometimes changes what is actually being said a little.

Sorry to burst your bubble though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastRaven
What I wanna know, is that why did the other girls break-up with their soeurs when Rei and Yoshino broke up one time?
All hail the power of fangirls! It's basically just showing how much influence the roses have on the student body. Because Yoshino (a future rose) gave her rosary back to Rei, it was seen by the impressionable student body as the 'fashionable' thing to do. If a relationship broke down between the most respected students in the school, then what's to say that the average student's relationship with their Onee-sama's is any better.

Last edited by Woodchips; 2007-10-01 at 23:27. Reason: Added comments
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Old 2007-10-08, 09:35   Link #153
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Well, not really "Romance", but as I opened the TV today, I saw Maria-sama on Animax and decided why not view it again.. (Even if I had seen the 1st season 7times, and 2nd 5times)

It was about the "Mystery Men" in Eriko Torii's life (yes, her siblings and the elephant man),
Well, what I learned from it (surprisingly since I saw this episode more than 5 times) is that Sei and Youko were betting whether the Elephant man will accept Eriko's proposal or not.

From what I see, this are very close and dear friends to each other, and no, they don't really intend to bet, lol.. I just realized that, in letting people grow, even if their choices seems irrational and weird (speaking in terms of Eriko), you don't need to contradict them, in the end, everybody chooses the path they want to follow, and if one gets weary, we can just influence them, but it is only by themselves, by their choices, and by choosing to stand up already that they can help themselves..

Friends are there to help only shed a few light among the road, but it is up to the traveler to move his feet and walk..

Though, anyway, not all choices are made by oneself only, everybody's decision is usually influenced from other people (quote from Paradise Kiss, lol)

Well, anyway, ramble ramble.. No one's posting much.. So there.. =P
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Old 2007-10-08, 10:23   Link #154
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Subtlety is the key in this series (and the very reason some hated it).

You know it may look like that, but they won't show it to you.

I wonder that's Konno Oyuki-san's plan with this series after all.
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Old 2007-10-09, 15:35   Link #155
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Ahh, I caught up. I haven't been on in a while, but some things were cleared up yet again for me. Thank jeebus. The cool thing is my wife and I finished the series and are on the 5th OAV now. I think it's my 4th time watching the first and second season and I can't count how many times I've seen the OAV's. But I'll quote my wife "Sachiko and Yumi are da' gay"
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Old 2007-11-20, 20:19   Link #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chihaki View Post
Subtlety is the key in this series (and the very reason some hated it).

You know it may look like that, but they won't show it to you.

I wonder that's Konno Oyuki-san's plan with this series after all.
I agree, though I think she probably wouldn't have spent so much time creating so many hints for them not to lead somewhere. There would be more than a few
disgruntled fans if she didn't resolve all the relationships in some way (SachiYumi in particular), even if eventually, they all grow up, get married (to men) and fondly remember their 'schoolgirl crushes'. I kind of suspect at least one pairing will last, and progress to something more serious (once again I would probably guess Sachiko and Yumi), since no one can deny the fact that the series has lesbian undertones, and these are important to both the characterisations and the narrative.

I was thinking about something I'd forgotten about which has popped up in the series from time to time. The comparison of the Virgin Mary's heart to a sapphire in the school song seemed to be emphasised by both Yumi and Sachiko, who feel there is 'something wrong' with it. I read a review which suggested 'sapphire' was be a veiled allusion to 'sapphic', i.e. lesbian. I found this an interesting idea, and I think the fact that both Yumi and Sachiko notice it, feel strangely about it and comment on it (Sachiko somehow quite seductively, I might add) suggests they do know what they feel for each other, or at least that they will come to eventually. Any thoughts?
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Old 2007-11-22, 16:51   Link #157
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Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
Anyway, to all your discussions whether or not there's romance in MariMite (w/c I do believe there is), I found out a source on why women like other women.. (Click)

There's a link there where it'll lead you to "Understanding the lesbian client" and some of my inputs as well..

Now, looking back to MariMite, I now understand why MariMite suddenly brings smiles to our faces (well, to some of us) because subconsciously, the link I gave is what runs through our minds.. We don't need Yuri to prove them of their feelings.. And, even if many argue it's not 'lovers', but more like 'sisters' or 'friends', I think deep within all of us, we wanted them to be..
Just popping in to the thread and...

I'm sorry but I have to say that the article you linked to is full of BS. Its underlying premise is that a lesbian relationship is fundamentally different from any other type of relationship and it makes wild, unsupported claims based on this assumption. For instance the very first paragraph claims that homosexuality is more about emotional attraction than sexual attraction. This is just the inverted stereotype that gays only want sex and it sounds just as ludicrous.

Then there's the paragraph claiming that lesbians have "a fragile relational bond ridden with fear and anxiety...For example, we see fears of abandonment and/or engulfment, struggles involving power (or powerlessness) and control, and desires to merge with another person to obtain a sense of security and significance."

Well yes, I'm sure those issues do crop up with many couples - straight and gay. That's a human problem, not specifically a lesbian issue. Anybody checked the divorce rates lately?

Then I just burst out laughing when the author even went Freudian with the "Will you be my mommy?" quote. Really, I should have seen that one coming.

Yes... er... anyway, that was a bit off topic but the article bothered (and amused) me so much that I had to say something. I know I came off as very condescending but that's directed towards the article, not you. Unless of course you're the one who wrote it.

As for Marimite, I've seen the first season and the only time the show decided to have an overtly romantic relationship was with Sei and Shiori. And then immediately after their kiss (which the camera panned away from) one of the girls runs off to become a nun. So make of that what you will. Marimite is like the posterchild for yuri series without actually containing any yuri.
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Old 2007-11-23, 00:37   Link #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboutblue View Post
Just popping in to the thread and...
Then I bet you didn't even read the comments in the page n_n

As I said I needed info on why women tend to look for other women.. The article is just a topic starter.

EDIT:
Hmm, it appears I gave the wrong link, go here instead: clicky
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Last edited by Stephanie; 2007-11-23 at 01:00.
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Old 2007-11-23, 02:12   Link #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
Then I bet you didn't even read the comments in the page n_n

As I said I needed info on why women tend to look for other women.. The article is just a topic starter.

EDIT:
Hmm, it appears I gave the wrong link, go here instead: clicky
By "just popping in" I meant I'm just posting now, not that I didn't bother to read the thread.

I guess I'm not the only one who didn't like the article? It does make for some interesting discussion though.

Actually what I wonder about is why yuri/shojo-ai/girls love/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is not as popular in other countries or in Japan (as far as I know) as yaoi/BL is. I mean... you'd think that with all the males out there this genre would be quite popular. Rather like how yaoi appeals to straight females. Any thoughts on this?
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Old 2007-11-23, 06:09   Link #160
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Ah, no.. I just quoted your 'popping in'
I was lost on why on earth I like women, so before, I came to believe that article I found was true..

Anyway, as for yuri/shoujo-ai, it seems yaoi actually is more accepted.. If you look around Anime with a 'hint' of yuri in it and it becomes televised, it's either cut or changed.. Like the sailormoon cousins.. They're not 'cousins' rather they are childhood friends, but were made cousins to explain their closeness I think..

Most (not all) bi women's psychology is that they look for yaoi more instead of yuri because those who still have a hard time accepting it didn't want to watch it.. But those who did bother, well, stayed liking it.

That's why I think Yaoi is more well known than Yuri, but hey, there are like millions of other animes out there not recognized. Blue Drop and Ice OVA are new Yuri animes out now.

Hmm, sorry for off-topic.
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