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Old 2007-08-20, 13:10   Link #101
Akabane_Kun
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The only thing that makoto did right was to give us watchers a new feeling of romance anime i dont remenber ever thinking stuff like(PLZ PLZ DONT END WHIF ONE OF THEM END MISEREBLY AND DIE)ever toward a male main charc sometimes they suck yes like otani of lovely complex but this guy is just wrong.
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Old 2007-08-20, 13:46   Link #102
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Originally Posted by AvatarST View Post
I mostly agree with your post, but I'll say it again; I really don't know anyone who acted like a clueless, worthless, complete, utter idiot like Makoto at his age. I expect much better of people.

His age is no justification or excuse. The guy's just a dumbass. If I was 16-17 I'd feel offended if everyone expected that little of people my age.

And don't take this the wrong way, I'm not shouting at you or anyone nor I'm annoyed in the least (some stuff may look like that when you just see letters rather than hear the person talking in front of you), just saying what I think about the subject.
Actually i have know quite a few people if not close or exactly like Itou and they have been between 15-17. The fact is people like this do exist in real life and some not all have come to their senses. The person who is the closest like Itou changed his ways after several people spoke to him about what he was doing. amazingly enough he never really thought about things the way people explained it him. The two girls who he was invovled with each explained how he had hurt them. After listening not only did he mend his ways but he went out his way to apologize to each writing each of them letters by hand no email or typing crap.

Most people who act like Itou actually change when after having a heart to heart with someone who is not spineless and they say the truth bluntly (some like Setsuna would be good for this role) The other eventually grew out of it as they got older and wiser. The first guy i talked about the girl he cheated with met years later and are now married with a daughter. Im not saying a happy ending awaits everyone Im just saying people can change if given the oppertunity to do so. I understand the hatred for Itou but really no one with the exception of Aceywacey, Metasigma,Klashikari and a handful of others have actually left room for him to change or learn from his mistakes. But hey everyone has their own opinion hate em if you want.
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Old 2007-08-20, 14:14   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Actually i have know quite a few people if not close or exactly like Itou and they have been between 15-17. The fact is people like this do exist in real life and some not all have come to their senses. The person who is the closest like Itou changed his ways after several people spoke to him about what he was doing. amazingly enough he never really thought about things the way people explained it him. The two girls who he was invovled with each explained how he had hurt them. After listening not only did he mend his ways but he went out his way to apologize to each writing each of them letters by hand no email or typing crap.

Most people who act like Itou actually change when after having a heart to heart with someone who is not spineless and they say the truth bluntly (some like Setsuna would be good for this role) The other eventually grew out of it as they got older and wiser. The first guy i talked about the girl he cheated with met years later and are now married with a daughter. Im not saying a happy ending awaits everyone Im just saying people can change if given the oppertunity to do so. I understand the hatred for Itou but really no one with the exception of Aceywacey, Metasigma,Klashikari and a handful of others have actually left room for him to change or learn from his mistakes. But hey everyone has their own opinion hate em if you want.
As shown by Sinestra...people can change, it's just we need to be willing to look past the past and help them toward the future. The BIG thing though is are they WILLING to change. That ONE thing is key to everything, because if they don't feel they need to change...then they never will. Makoto...being as young as he is has plenty of room to change and has not once yet said he doesn't need to. There by stating that he CAN indeed change. Mind you it'll be a long and hard change but he CAN.
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Old 2007-08-20, 15:27   Link #104
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Originally Posted by MetaSigma View Post
As shown by Sinestra...people can change, it's just we need to be willing to look past the past and help them toward the future. The BIG thing though is are they WILLING to change. That ONE thing is key to everything, because if they don't feel they need to change...then they never will. Makoto...being as young as he is has plenty of room to change and has not once yet said he doesn't need to. There by stating that he CAN indeed change. Mind you it'll be a long and hard change but he CAN.
Just to add to what Metasigma has so nicely explained. Itou has not once said he does not need to change as mentioned above But also no one has ever said anything to him to make him think he needs to, THe reason why he gets away with this crap is because NO ONE says anything to him not even the girls he is involved with. This is stupidity on his part but from what iv seen he honestly does not know that what he is doing is hurting people as badly as he has. Call it being stupid or just being plain oblivious to me it looks like he truly does not understand the repurcusion's of his action. I wonder if he would change if someone had a heart to heart with him. Any thoughts everyone?
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Old 2007-08-20, 15:41   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Just to add to what Metasigma has so nicely explained. Itou has not once said he does not need to change as mentioned above But also no one has ever said anything to him to make him think he needs to, THe reason why he gets away with this crap is because NO ONE says anything to him not even the girls he is involved with. This is stupidity on his part but from what iv seen he honestly does not know that what he is doing is hurting people as badly as he has. Call it being stupid or just being plain oblivious to me it looks like he truly does not understand the repurcusion's of his action. I wonder if he would change if someone had a heart to heart with him. Any thoughts everyone?
I would say yes he can change. Look at what happened when Sekai first started talking to him about girls. He took what she said to heart and worked hard to make it happen. That there proves that when spoken too about things he CAN listen and he CAN change for the better.

Remember that he was focused on himself on their date and had no idea what happened, from that point on if you noticed he tried to actually make the next date better using Sekai's suggestions. I would say Makoto is truly dense as they come, but if you explain it to him then he can change his ways. Sekai's advice alone has proven this to be a true point.
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Old 2007-08-20, 16:03   Link #106
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If he's gonna change, it should be done believably, and he should change a fair bit. I don't really want him to get away with everything either, so it'd be great if he learns the hard way, somehow.

I'm certainly not gonna say "he's great now" just because he finally picks a girl in the end (wow, how admirable!) after acting like a moron for a long time.

And people are free to dislike him because there's many, many, many guys who aren't that dense and know or learn these things without anyone helping them in such a fashion.
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Old 2007-08-20, 16:13   Link #107
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Originally Posted by AvatarST View Post
If he's gonna change, it should be done believably, and he should change a fair bit. I don't really want him to get away with everything either, so it'd be great if he learns the hard way, somehow.

I'm certainly not gonna say "he's great now" just because he finally picks a girl in the end (wow, how admirable!) after acting like a moron for a long time.

And people are free to dislike him because there's many, many, many guys who aren't that dense and know or learn these things without anyone helping them in such a fashion.
true the problem is the anime is short there is not enough time to have him learn his lesson and make changes. At this point it wouldnt be believable if the anime were say 24-26 episodes long then there would ample time for it to happen.

Picking a girl in the end does not make him great by any means, and yes some people learn and wise up without having to be told. But not everyone learns at the same pace and yes he is dense but someone could come and tell us hey your dense for this so it 2 way street what others are weak in some are strong in and vice versa. In Matoko's case i think he is one of these people who find thing more profound when they are spelled out for him
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Old 2007-08-20, 17:57   Link #108
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The main issue with that is that I don't really see any redeeming qualities with him, though. There's some things you more or less are expected to know if you led a normal life, especially those that are blatantly obvious and related to people's feelings. So yes, I do consider him to be a "worse person" than most, and I wouldn't want to befriend someone like that. It may be because he's a moron rather than evil, but if you're a moron and you do harm, the harm is still done.
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Old 2007-08-20, 18:29   Link #109
Akabane_Kun
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I think setsuna is the ideal girl to make sense into makoto head and its possible to hapeen in the future,if makoto decides to leave sekai to go back to koto she would whithout a doubt teach im some things about live the hard way
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Old 2007-08-20, 19:24   Link #110
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Of course people can change, even Makoto. I mean, he is just a dumb teenager, he doesn't know squat about real life and love.

However, I do not think the producers can make him change before the end of the show and make it look convincing. It's just that, he does not have any redeemable qualities after all. What might possibly happen is him choosing one girl and then breaking up properly with the other and apologizing. I've seen this happen in other shows, like KGNE. Of course, this is not enough for us to forgive him for acting like a complete and total dumbass for 11 and a half episodes.

However, I do not think I will be satisfied with such an end. In KGNE the main character at least had some redeemable qualities. I mean, he was a nice guy after all, he was just completely clueless about the whole situation during the whole show and he had severe self-esteem issues, but I guess I could believe he could realize he was wrong and do the right thing in the end. I cannot see Makoto do such a thing, it just isn't realistic. I will be pretty pissed if they choose such an ending.

The more realistic ending for me would be Makoto getting dumped by both girls and realizing how he had been so terrible to both of them. I can see him apologizing to them and telling them that even if they never forgive him he is going to work hard from now on to become a better person in the future. I agree that if the show was 25-26 episodes long, it could provide us with a complete turnover of his character, but don't you guys thing it would be pretty boring for him to act like Mr. Nice Guy for 13 episodes.

In the end, I do not want him to die, since I do not think he has done anything to deserve the death penalty. However, he needs to learn things the hard way.
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Old 2007-08-21, 15:38   Link #111
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Lightbulb Just chiming in...

(This has been on my mind for quite some time now, so I'm a bit compelled to post, even though I should be working. Please forgive me if my post has an abrupt ending. If that's the case, I'll try to gather more thoughts on continue this post later.)

I just recently watched the first seven episodes in a row last week and I am anxiously waiting for episode 8. Even though everyone seems to take sides with each of the characters (and perhaps no one is on Makoto's side), I can't take any of the characters' side because they're all extremely flawed. Each of the character's decision thus far, no matter how reprehensible or how stupid one's actions may look to the viewer/witness, I can understand how and why these characters reach upon their decision.

I've tried to read each and every post on this thread, and I do agree that Makoto's infidelity is undeniably wrong. And not breaking up with Kotonoha before falling in love with Sekai exacerbates the problem. But the way I see it, is that he's stuck between a rock and a hard place, as the old cliche goes.

I must stress that I'm taking no sides in any School Days characters, so please don't take the following paragraph as a kind of "typical male chauvinist reasoning."

Kotonoha is an extremely sensitive and kind girl, but at the same time, being with her is like walking on egg shells. Granted, Makoto wants to make "sexy time" with Kotonoha, but other than that Makoto began to realize that he has to go through hoops just to please her. While at the same time, the more Makoto hangs out with Sekai, the more he realizes how easy it is to have fun and enjoy life with Sekai. At this point of the series, I actually liked how Makoto made a firm decision and went for Sekai instead of Kotonoha. But again, I have to agree with everyone that Makoto could've at least break up with Kotonoha and not prolong the relationship.

To say that Makoto has some ill-intent on hurting Kotonoha and Makoto is driven ONLY by his sexual desires is simplifying the complexities of love, not just in this anime series, but life in general.

(to be continued... maybe ^o^)
(back to work!)
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Old 2007-08-25, 17:51   Link #112
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After reading all of this he deserves to die in a bloody dungeon. Since he using people for what he truly seeks sex. Even other anime perverts I seen aren't as bad as him. Since they still hav e 1 vaule left in him while Makaoto doesn't.

Wishes for the girls to get over him and leave him in a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry black gruesome corner.
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Old 2007-08-25, 20:48   Link #113
kayos
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The way I see it, Makoto is driven by teenage hormones. He realized his love for Sekai instantly the moment she allowed him to practice on her. That's just too fast, one moment his full attention was on Kotonoha and finding ways to advance in their relationship then suddenly just dropped her like a bag of nickels because she's conservative.

Makoto love Sekai because he's getting what he wants from her unlike Kotonoha who refuses his advances. It's pretty much just a average teenage hormone drama.

I agree with everyone else, Makoto is completely worthless, noted I was irritated after the first two eps but I continued to follow the series just to witness the conclusion.

Of course this is just my standing.
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Old 2007-08-27, 00:47   Link #114
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At least he will make more romantic progress then 90% of men I see in Romance animes...(want me to make a list?)
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Old 2007-08-27, 01:34   Link #115
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^ Not sure about that, as the 'romance' progress has been pretty low, if not nonexistent as far as Makoto is concerned I will fully agree as far as the physical side of the relationships is concerned though - he is moving at a steady pace on that front.
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Old 2007-08-27, 01:46   Link #116
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Exactly, I measure Romance by how much Physical progress you make...
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Old 2007-08-27, 02:29   Link #117
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That's not romance.

As far as romance is concerned, not much has happened, but the stage has been set for many events to unfold. Maybe we'll even see some character development for Makoto. Well, probably not, but it's possible.
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Old 2007-08-27, 04:01   Link #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayos View Post
The way I see it, Makoto is driven by teenage hormones. He realized his love for Sekai instantly the moment she allowed him to practice on her.
Not exactly true. By this point he had already told Sekai that being with Kotonoha was "tiring". So his feelings for Koto was already cooling by that point.

He already had more fun and was at ease with Sekai. When he realised he was attracted to her too (practise), why wouldn't you switch? It's better you drop someone and go for the one you like, than stay with them out of pity.

Of course Makoto's problem is that he hasn't dropped Koto yet :P
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Old 2007-08-27, 05:01   Link #119
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After watching episode 7 and 8, I think Makoto has a hard time choosing whose side to be on...he sees Kotonoha being treated badly, suddenly he feels like he needs to be with Kotonoha just to comfort her from the way she's been treated in those episodes. Its like "she's my first girlfriend, so I have to protect her" kind of thing.
But when it comes to Sekai, he changes again. He doesn't even know that Kotonoha was even his girlfriend and thinks that he is now Sekai's boyfriend. The "Makoto's house" incident at the end of episode 7 really shows how Makoto has a hard time choosing sides.
All in all, Makoto is also part of the problem on why everyone suddenly hates Kotonoha.
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Old 2007-08-27, 16:18   Link #120
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Exactly, I measure Romance by how much Physical progress you make...
Well we all have our own interpretation of romance but the dictionary version stated it's to have a love affair. Makoto sort of fits right in there. But I haven't seen any progression as for relationship wise beside being bed buddies with Sekai.

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Originally Posted by Aceywacey View Post
Not exactly true. By this point he had already told Sekai that being with Kotonoha was "tiring". So his feelings for Koto was already cooling by that point.
We all can agree that Makoto justified his switch to Sekai because he was tired of Kotonoha unwillingness to satisfy his lustful desires, which in the end made him feel uncomfortable. I still wonder considering the circumstances, Makoto showed no attraction to Sekai until she allowed him to play with her, but if another girl would have done the same, would he have thrown himself into that relationship as well.

Quote:
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he sees Kotonoha being treated badly, suddenly he feels like he needs to be with Kotonoha just to comfort her from the way she's been treated in those episodes. Its like "she's my first girlfriend, so I have to protect her" kind of thing.
It's funny you should say that, because in one of the recent episode (can't remember which one), the scene where Kotonoha was bullied right in front of him until tears started to fall and yet he did nothing. Nor did he even attempt to comfort her.

The reason why Makoto find it soooooo hard to release one of the girls is because he's indecisive and totally clueless to the emotions around him. My question is, was he raised by animals?
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