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Old 2008-02-13, 16:16   Link #341
Clarste
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Let's please not turn this into the WoW forum. As much as I love yelling at people who get things unbelievably wrong (and I do), this is certainly the wrong place to do it.
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Old 2008-02-13, 16:29   Link #342
Rembr
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In pug BGs you can get by with raid gear. Pugs are sometimes still wearing green, so of course purples of any caliber will tear it up.

Arenas will be far less forgiving. Raid gear will not take you beyond a certain point. Hell, it's hard enough for starters with moderate resilience to break 1500s as it is with all the point sellers.
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Old 2008-02-13, 17:30   Link #343
Ending
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What is your main goal? PVP or PVE? If PVE and end game raid why are you bothering with PVP gear *_*? there are alot better ways to get better gear ( for PVE)and at the same time good amount of gold with less time. Just do regular dungeons over and over untill you get your gear.
Both, of course, since I don't want to fence out half of the game. As to my gear, it's already pretty good and I will soon stand in 2,000 +heal, 170 Mp5, 300 resilience, and 9,000 health. I got the primal mooncloth set, two pieces of S1 gladiator gear, some badge stuff, and they all are enchanted for max heal. Oh, and I also have the cenarian war hippogryph *brag*

So PvE-wise the next upgrades come from either tier-5 or 6, so even heroics are way behind me now. PvP-wise I'm aiming for a mix of S2 and 3 gear. It's just a question of time, since I don't like to grind. What I'm seeking is the most efficient way to get the stuff to be able to compete in the arena in equal terms.
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Old 2008-02-13, 20:06   Link #344
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBladewing View Post
Yes, uniqueness is great and new or unpopular things can become new trends, I am not disagreeing with that. I am the last person to ever say the majority is always right. I am also not saying it is impossible for someone trying something new to beat someone with better gear or a cookie cutter build. WoW is, however, a game based heavily on numbers, and when you look at those numbers, the PvP gear comes out as more effective. A level 40 is not gonna beat a lv 70 unless he is afk, and a hunter whose strategy is to melee is not going to be effective, the nature of the game just doesn't allow it. Sure, it is possible that you could have a brand new strategy that would make all the current gear stats worthless and revolutionize the entire game, but in a game based so heavily on numbers and statistics it is highly unlikely.

Saying "I have a certain playstyle and I find Tier 6 is better suited for it than PvP gear" is perfectly fine, but it'd be preferable to have more solid reasoning when claiming "Season 3 gear is outright worse than Tier 5 for PvP" when all past experience has proven otherwise.



As I said in my above post and in this one, I don't question the way other people choose to play. If you find a playstyle that works for you, go for it.

And yeah, the WoW forums are filled with idiots and trolls, but there are many there who do actually know what they are talking about.

This is my orignal post *_*. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=324 . It was just curved to be a PVP vs PVE discussion. I just said tier 6 is the best set in the game. i wasnt talking about PVP. Well i meant to say tier 5 Is about the same as Last PVP set. I didnt mean to say it is worse. Sorry for the misundrestanding.

Also about tier 6 i thought i did mention that (expcept for stamina for some classes) The other stats ( numbers as you stated) are far better ( by 60 to 80 ) higher than PVP 3. So that was my reasoning behind it. And i also added if you kill the enemy fast, You dont really need to worry that much about surviving. I also Mentioned that The Survival factors of Tier 6 is almost as good as PVP 3. I mean if you look at the numbers the tier 6 is higher level than tier 5 ( source thottbot.com although my opinion of tier 6 isnt based on level, its just based on usage).

Since i wasnt clear enought with numbers , iwill compare few of them for you:

Rouge:
- Tier 6: Pvp 3:
agi:204 159
stam: 237 235
crict hit: 101 79
attak power: 414 156


This is just one numerical example ( i got bored to post any other than this ) .

Tier 6 set has almost 2 times more DPS output than PVP 3. Tier 6 isnt better than PVP 3 set in terms of surviving ( but preaty darn close). Combination of these 2 Survi/dps, makes the Tier 6 a better set. Tier serves you with your PVE needs and also can be used in PVP. And due to it having Huge DPS output and crict chance and .... It will easily balance that survivablity of PVP3.

Yes yes, PVP 3 gets Resil/stamina, But With the huge DPS output and other stats that tier 6 has, that is easily canceled out. I know many ( and Yes maaaaaany) people that would argue with your point about Tier 6 not being better than PVP 3. Skillwise equals, Its one of those things that you have to put against each other in a duel to see which one is better i guess.

To be honest i am getting bored of this discussion since it is just going in a circle and nothing new. I do think you know what you are talking about and your reasoning are valid. I had fun chatting with you, but lets be fair to others and not turn this to a WOW forum.

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Originally Posted by Wordplay View Post
Both, of course, since I don't want to fence out half of the game. As to my gear, it's already pretty good and I will soon stand in 2,000 +heal, 170 Mp5, 300 resilience, and 9,000 health. I got the primal mooncloth set, two pieces of S1 gladiator gear, some badge stuff, and they all are enchanted for max heal. Oh, and I also have the cenarian war hippogryph *brag*

So PvE-wise the next upgrades come from either tier-5 or 6, so even heroics are way behind me now. PvP-wise I'm aiming for a mix of S2 and 3 gear. It's just a question of time, since I don't like to grind. What I'm seeking is the most efficient way to get the stuff to be able to compete in the arena in equal terms.
Yeah PVP can be fun if its just mainly for the fun . You are preaty much set. I would personally would get season 1 first. I wouldnt save it for season 2. Get them first and it will be a bit easier in BGs. Its just something i learn from Dota. Building up with weaker items and working yourself through to stronger item is alot easier and playable than saving up for stronger items. Of course its up to you.

as for PVE/end game raid, just finish up your Mooncloth set and try to grab few items from regular dungeons. Doing that could server as warm-up for end game raids and at the same time few greens/cloth/grey/white that can get you some good gold. I hate grinding too . But i have a way to get alot of gold in a short amount of time with enchanting so gold isnt an issue. Just enchanting BOP blue can get you tons of gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
In pug BGs you can get by with raid gear. Pugs are sometimes still wearing green, so of course purples of any caliber will tear it up.

Arenas will be far less forgiving. Raid gear will not take you beyond a certain point. Hell, it's hard enough for starters with moderate resilience to break 1500s as it is with all the point sellers.

Areana is all about skills and strats. Items do play a role but Skills > items.
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Old 2008-02-13, 22:07   Link #345
RWBladewing
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This is going to be my last post on this subject because you keep bringing up the same points no matter how many times they are refuted, by myself and every other person who has posted, and it is pointless to continue. In summary, Survival > Raw Damage for PvP, Tier 6 does not offer the same or similar survivability of Season 3, Tier 5 is not even close to Season 3, skill does not always account for a gear gap, there is no "overall best set" in the game because they play different roles, those numbers you provided are wrong, the stamina count is way off, I didn't bother to add up the rest. That is all.
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Old 2008-02-13, 22:25   Link #346
Rembr
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Areana is all about skills and strats. Items do play a role but Skills > items.
Oh I agree. And part of being skillful is realizing that survivability outweighs dps in the arenas especially in recent seasons.

Got armory?
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Old 2008-02-13, 23:29   Link #347
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
Oh I agree. And part of being skillful is realizing that survivability outweighs dps in the arenas especially in recent seasons.

Got armory?
I dont know if you guys ever noticed, The only person that i said i would show it, was RWBladewing. If he wants me , he can PM and i will link it for him. and for the other guy here, Kimori,Doesnt he realize he has been ignored from the begining? Well he can talk with himself. I will continue ignoring him untill he tones down his attitude in his Posts.

This is going to be my last post on this subject because you keep bringing up the same points no matter how many times they are refuted, by myself and every other person who has posted, and it is pointless to continue. In summary, Survival > Raw Damage for PvP, Tier 6 does not offer the same or similar survivability of Season 3, Tier 5 is not even close to Season 3, skill does not always account for a gear gap, there is no "overall best set" in the game because they play different roles, those numbers you provided are wrong, the stamina count is way off, I didn't bother to add up the rest. That is all.

Yes i will stop too. I was about too re explain one more time but just deleted ( and it was about 1 page long). To be honest I disagree with most of your points. You stick with yours and i will do mine. If you think PVP is better then I guess You think PVP better.
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Old 2008-02-13, 23:41   Link #348
Rembr
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
I dont like people who dont back up their Claims with reasoning to be honest. I dont know if you guys ever noticed, The only person that i said i would show it, was RWBladewing. If he wants me , he can PM and i will link it for him. and for the other guy here, Kimori,Doesnt he realize he has been ignored from the begining? Well he can talk with himself.
Okay, can you find me any proof of top-tier arena teams that has no BG gear?
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Old 2008-02-13, 23:48   Link #349
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
Okay, can you find me any proof of top-tier arena teams that has no BG gear?
Well most of the arena players will have PVP gear lol . Thats obvious. Their reward is PVP items afterall.


But i can tell you this, Out of 17 matches that i have played areana, i have won 14 and lost 3. Me and 4 of my guildies, were all in PVE gear. So Type of gear has nothing to do with it.
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Old 2008-02-13, 23:58   Link #350
Rembr
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Well most of the arena players will have PVP gear lol . Thats obvious. Their reward is PVP items afterall.


But i can tell you this, Out of 17 matches that i have played areana, i have won 14 and lost 3. Me and 4 of my guildies, were all in PVE gear. So Type of gear has nothing to do with it.
If type of gear didn't matter don't you think top tier teams will have more diversity in gear? If PvE gears were superior or even equal, you'd see a lot more of PvE geared people in the top tiers. Do you see several? Do you even see any?
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Old 2008-02-14, 00:22   Link #351
Komori
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
and for the other guy here, Kimori,Doesnt he realize he has been ignored from the begining? Well he can talk with himself. I will continue ignoring him untill he tones down his attitude in his Posts.
I'm sorry that you can't take someone throwing facts at you in a way that you don't like. Please forgive me. m(-_-)m

It doesn't matter if you ignore me, you felt the need to respond to me indirectly which tells me that you do read my posts. It also tells me that you can't think of anything to disprove what I'm saying, so you'd rather ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
I dont know if you guys ever noticed, The only person that i said i would show it, was RWBladewing. If he wants me , he can PM and i will link it for him.
Sounds like you're afraid to back up what you've been saying.
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Old 2008-02-14, 03:55   Link #352
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
If type of gear didn't matter don't you think top tier teams will have more diversity in gear? If PvE gears were superior or even equal, you'd see a lot more of PvE geared people in the top tiers. Do you see several? Do you even see any?
You do see but not as often. Most PVErs dont play much PVP. If they do its mainly for fun. I mean they already have their gear from PVE which is much better than PVP gear. There is no need to waste time for those items any more. Its just the casual for fun games for PVErs. As an example i just mentioned one for you in my previous posts.




I thought you would figure that out yourself. I mean its not that hard to figure it out. Well i bet you will have more common sense questions for me next. But please think about them yourself a bit, and then if you cant figure it out, i would be glad to explain.



P.S. Well that is the case with organized PVE guilds. Unorganized ones that cant even get past Kara and call themselves a PVE guild, do alot of PVP too.
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Old 2008-02-14, 11:40   Link #353
Ending
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I mean they already have their gear from PVE which is much better than PVP gear.
Have to disagree there. Like I mentioned earlier, I carry two pieces of season 1 gear and several pieces of vindicator/veteran stuff and I do that because of a simple reason: they're way better than anything dropped in Karazhan, Gruul's, or Mag's Lair. They have stamina, intelligence, Mp5, high +heal, and sometimes even sockets.

So yeah: PvP gear beats pretty much anything until tier-5, so for new players they are the best choise for both PvP and PvE. At least from the point of view of a healing priest (might be different for other classes).
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Old 2008-02-14, 16:28   Link #354
Rembr
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
You do see but not as often. Most PVErs dont play much PVP. If they do its mainly for fun. I mean they already have their gear from PVE which is much better than PVP gear. There is no need to waste time for those items any more. Its just the casual for fun games for PVErs. As an example i just mentioned one for you in my previous posts.




I thought you would figure that out yourself. I mean its not that hard to figure it out. Well i bet you will have more common sense questions for me next. But please think about them yourself a bit, and then if you cant figure it out, i would be glad to explain.



P.S. Well that is the case with organized PVE guilds. Unorganized ones that cant even get past Kara and call themselves a PVE guild, do alot of PVP too.
?

I still see zero PvE gear in peak tiers.

Are you saying that PvE gear is enough for casual PvP? If so I agree, it'll be enough to beat median teams. But no peak tier teams have ever gotten to the peak by neglecting resilience.

And there are actually some hardcore players within raiding guilds who participate in arenas not for pure entertainment but to get gold to cover their raiding costs. Do you know what they wear in order to maximize their output?

Or are you talking in terms of pre-BC PvP?
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Old 2008-02-14, 17:34   Link #355
Komori
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Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
And there are actually some hardcore players within raiding guilds who participate in arenas not for pure entertainment but to get gold to cover their raiding costs. Do you know what they wear in order to maximize their output?
You don't make any gold from arena. If anything, you lose gold since you have to pay for the teams. I guess the only way arena could save you money is if you buy your epic flying skill but don't buy a mount, then you get in the top (0.5%?) of your entire battlegroup and get the free epic flying mount they give as rewards.

People from various guilds on my server who have had Illidan on farm for a while now do a lot of PVP since there's nothing else to do until Sunwell. And yes, in case you're wondering Whitemoon, they wear full S3.
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Old 2008-02-14, 19:03   Link #356
Rembr
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Originally Posted by Komori View Post
You don't make any gold from arena. If anything, you lose gold since you have to pay for the teams. I guess the only way arena could save you money is if you buy your epic flying skill but don't buy a mount, then you get in the top (0.5%?) of your entire battlegroup and get the free epic flying mount they give as rewards.

People from various guilds on my server who have had Illidan on farm for a while now do a lot of PVP since there's nothing else to do until Sunwell. And yes, in case you're wondering Whitemoon, they wear full S3.
Ever hear of point selling?
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Old 2008-02-14, 19:24   Link #357
Komori
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Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
Ever hear of point selling?
I forgot all about that. It's not as bad here as it is on some servers so we don't really hear about it much. I've only seen maybe 2 teams publicly advertise point selling, but I'm sure there's a few more teams out there that sell just to friends or guild members.
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Old 2008-02-14, 21:19   Link #358
RWBladewing
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Originally Posted by Komori View Post
I forgot all about that. It's not as bad here as it is on some servers so we don't really hear about it much. I've only seen maybe 2 teams publicly advertise point selling, but I'm sure there's a few more teams out there that sell just to friends or guild members.
Yeah, I have people in my guild who are doing it. It really annoys me but I don't really feel like yelling at or trying to report guildies. Another guildy who took them up on it actually got a temp ban for it though, apparently they noticed that his points suddenly spiked or that he had gear that was higher than his personal rating indicated he should have. Too bad there are no repercussions for the people actually doing the selling though.
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Old 2008-02-14, 22:13   Link #359
Neki Ecko
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Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
Ever hear of point selling?
I heard about that alot, it is the same like Tier selling, I know one guild on Dath'Remar(my former server) was doing selling Tier equipment for almost 1k - 2k of gold and I think they was doing point selling as well. But for me, I am only like 1,200 exp more to get my dragon and its feel great(btw, getting eggs is the best way to get Netherwing exp fast)
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Old 2008-02-14, 22:52   Link #360
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by Wordplay View Post
Have to disagree there. Like I mentioned earlier, I carry two pieces of season 1 gear and several pieces of vindicator/veteran stuff and I do that because of a simple reason: they're way better than anything dropped in Karazhan, Gruul's, or Mag's Lair. They have stamina, intelligence, Mp5, high +heal, and sometimes even sockets.

So yeah: PvP gear beats pretty much anything until tier-5, so for new players they are the best choise for both PvP and PvE. At least from the point of view of a healing priest (might be different for other classes).
You are correct. A Mix of both for diffrent bosses actually works quite well. However you do need most of Karazhan to go for the next level. But yeah as you said a mix can actually very well. There are diffrent bosses and for each there needs to be diffrent stats, res and ... .

What i am saying If you get your tier 6, you dont really need to work PVP 3 ( mainly for PVE ). And also with tier 6 You can beat the teams with epic pvps too.


P.S. It seems you are another person that knows what he is talking about *_*.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
?

I still see zero PvE gear in peak tiers.

Are you saying that PvE gear is enough for casual PvP? If so I agree, it'll be enough to beat median teams. But no peak tier teams have ever gotten to the peak by neglecting resilience.

And there are actually some hardcore players within raiding guilds who participate in arenas not for pure entertainment but to get gold to cover their raiding costs. Do you know what they wear in order to maximize their output?

Or are you talking in terms of pre-BC PvP?
Another common sense question that you actually asnwered yourself. They got their tier 6 and now they go after PVP 3. Because they have the best gear set in the game, it is now easy to get PVP 3. Some people want to have both gear sets and have the time for it and go for it. And yeah We have teams from our guild that have tried to get their PVP 3. And actually they have done it preaty fast. I remember my friend told me he got his PVP 3 in less than 2 weeks. But I dont have time to do it. And he did. And he was fine with his Tier 6. You forget sometimes that 5 piece isnt the only pieces you have. You have sockets, enchants and other pieces. So he didnt really neglicted anything. You definitly do need alot of resil. I never said you can ignore Res.

All i am saying Tier 6 > than PVP 3.

If i would Give a number from 1 to 100 to each set it would go like this.

Tier 6= 100
Tier 5= 98
PVP3= 93
Tier 4= 81.

P.S. Again this is my take on the item, and millions of people migh disagree and at the same time millions of people might agree. So i hope i am not getting any one frustrated by my persistence. Its just how so many people think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembr View Post
Ever hear of point selling?
Isnt that against Blizz rule? I thought you could get ban from it. I have heard rumors of people getting banned from doing that.
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