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Old 2011-01-23, 03:34   Link #6981
Ithekro
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PvP in BG is entirely based on your battlegroup rather than just your server. So if you are losing badly it might be based on what time zone the majority of those servers are in plus how many are dominated by one faction over another since there will likely be a mix of PvE, PvP, and RP servers in the Battlegroup.

I played BGs for a few days to earn the needed marks for an honor mount (for the Achievement). AB went mostly Alliance. WSG was mostly Horde ( it seemed) and AV was half and half. Even then getting 30 marks for AV took forever. At this was early in 2010. If the zergs failed on both sides...It became like a short version of old AV. It lasted a long time and things mattered because it came down to who ran out of reenforcements first. Lots of honor in those fights...but a drag if all you want is the marks.
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Old 2011-01-23, 03:37   Link #6982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
PvP in BG is entirely based on your battlegroup rather than just your server. So if you are losing badly it might be based on what time zone the majority of those servers are in plus how many are dominated by one faction over another since there will likely be a mix of PvE, PvP, and RP servers in the Battlegroup.
I think my battlegroup is more based on PvE.

Quote:
I played BGs for a few days to earn the needed marks for an honor mount (for the Achievement). AB went mostly Alliance. WSG was mostly Horde ( it seemed) and AV was half and half. Even then getting 30 marks for AV took forever. At this was early in 2010. If the zergs failed on both sides...It became like a short version of old AV. It lasted a long time and things mattered because it came down to who ran out of reenforcements first. Lots of honor in those fights...but a drag if all you want is the marks.
What battlegroup are you in? Those situations sound extremely similar to mine.
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Old 2011-01-23, 09:35   Link #6983
Kyero Fox
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See on my Battlegroup the horde ALWAYS camp galv and then zerg the towers, theres no way to win anymore because the alliance keep fallin for their stupid tricks... I keep telling them get to the horde base towers first then work our way up
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Old 2011-01-23, 15:00   Link #6984
Ithekro
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The Horde tactic that messed up the zerging in AV was wait for half out group to pass the middle and them jump the other half. No one listens so we got bottled up and thrown back to the Stormpeak GY. We then got bottled up by the Horde at the bridge or the pass. The rest of us waited around trying to take the towers before going for the boss, not paying attention to the rest of us telling them to go now because we could not hold the horde back.

The other way is the same, but instead of going the normal path, part of the Alliance group intentionally ran into the Horde column. That was the battle were we had a real war going back and forth in the middle. The Alliance pushed the Horde back almost to their boss before they managed to push us back out into their base area. We won just barely because I and a few others ran back into the Horde mine to retake for the third time. We won with I think 17 reenforcements left.

I'm in Battlegroup Nightfall. However since Cataclysm launched, it is said that all BGs are cross battlegroups now for all US battlegroups. So you might just be getting bad RGN with your random BGs.
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Old 2011-01-23, 15:07   Link #6985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
However since Cataclysm launched, it is said that all BGs are cross battlegroups now for all US battlegroups. So you might just be getting bad RGN with your random BGs.
I think that was just for European battlegroups, and even then they just funneled them into 2 or 3 instead of the 16 or however many there were. Don't think US BGs have been funneled yet.
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Old 2011-01-23, 15:22   Link #6986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I think that was just for European battlegroups, and even then they just funneled them into 2 or 3 instead of the 16 or however many there were. Don't think US BGs have been funneled yet.
If it was funneled, then chances of winning would atleast have been an option instead of the constant losing one side gets.
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Old 2011-01-23, 15:29   Link #6987
Ithekro
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I've not played a BG since before 3.3.5 so I'm just going from what I've read.
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Old 2011-01-23, 23:37   Link #6988
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Tried some rated BGs with the guild for the first time. Wasn't too bad. But at the time we play there isnt much in the way of competition. Cause srsly, going against a team that is 1600 rating when your teams first time in (aka: 0 rating) on a battleground about 2 of us have seen before makes for painful learning. Although we did end up stomping one particular team that reamed us on a previous round twice (and they had like a 1100 rating). Still even though only 2/5 matches were won, could see definite improvement in our play.

I seemed to remember that the combined battlegrounds have been applied to the US servers as well, but its not yet complete let alone universal. Its only two or three battle-groups that are linked at a time. Basically, you can be grouped or paired against people of other battle-groups, but if that link happens to fall over for whatever reason it auto-reverts back to the old single battle-group until the link is available again. eventually they'll link them all, with various levels of fall back like mentioned above.
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Old 2011-01-24, 20:19   Link #6989
Konakaga
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Wow northrend is exp is so easy with guild exp, reduce exp per level, and etc, I got my alt up to 79 over the weekend , and I even got a rare for the achievement randomly . Also having a i308 weapon at 78 is sooo dam OP, I did two dungeons and my druid did more damage than the rest of the group combined despite being the lowest level .

Quote:
* Divine Light mana cost has been increased by approximately 10%.
* Flash of Light mana cost has been increased by approximately 10%.
* Holy Light mana cost has been increased by approximately 10%.
I have to ask, why? I feel really bad for any one just hitting heroic point getting hit by this would make it stupidly easy to oom. Though at my gear level I don't think it will affect me to terribly at least not until attempting HC raids.

Also anyone know if 4.0.6 suppose to be this week or not? [I am nearly maxed on JP and nothing to spend it on atm, so I want that vendor added D:].
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Old 2011-01-24, 20:22   Link #6990
GDB
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
I have to ask, why? I feel really bad for any one just hitting heroic point getting hit by this would make it stupidly easy to oom. Though at my gear level I don't think it will affect me to terribly at least not until attempting HC raids.
They made mana regen better, so to offset it they made the spells cost more. Why balance things, when you can just make numbers bigger? Bigger is better, right?

And that (Blizzard's horrible "big numbers means better" attitude) is one of the many reasons I'm letting my account expire tomorrow rather than renew. Haven't even signed on in the last 2+ weeks.
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Old 2011-01-24, 20:29   Link #6991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
They made mana regen better, so to offset it they made the spells cost more. Why balance things, when you can just make numbers bigger? Bigger is better, right?
Wait, just because of the Divine Plea change, or was there some other mana regen changed that I missed?

Quote:
And that (Blizzard's horrible "big numbers means better" attitude) is one of the many reasons I'm letting my account expire tomorrow rather than renew. Haven't even signed on in the last 2+ weeks.
Eh, as an Ex-FFXI player I'd prefer it to the "We will attempt address the issue sometime in future"[ie between 6~18 months] that I had to dealing with .
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:08   Link #6992
GDB
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
Wait, just because of the Divine Plea change, or was there some other mana regen changed that I missed?
Divine Plea + Glyph of Divine Plea.

Quote:
Eh, as an Ex-FFXI player I'd prefer it to the "We will attempt address the issue sometime in future"[ie between 6~18 months] that I had to dealing with .
Meh, I'll take the other option of saving my money and take neither of their stances.
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:22   Link #6993
Ithekro
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I'm more amazed at how bad my dps was the last LFG random non-heroic dungeon I did was. Grim Batol...at level 85, with 4.5k dps as a destro warlock. I was doing better at level 80 on a target dummy at 8k dps, though not quite that good in dungeons as things had a tendancy to die befor I could get more than one Immolate duration on them...and usually faster than that. I Grim Batol things didn't die that fast (aside from the stuff we wounded from the drakes). The DK in the group was doing I guess 12k and the hunter I think 9k with the Pally tank at 5.5k. I haven't been below the tank in non-rushed dungeon content in a while (aside from if it is a pally verses a lot of undead, that extra damage mounts up).

Maybe my rotation is rusty, or maybe I don't have the stats I need (at level 80 I was in T10-ICC gear which allowed for a lot of haste and crit...now I have more Mastery than anything else it seem like, with Haste being the lower stat even to crit because of what stuff I could get...and that's with haste enchants and gems)
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Old 2011-01-25, 02:24   Link #6994
Skyfall
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The increased mana cost for Paladin spells isn't going to change that much really - Palies are still the strongest healer by a fair margin at the moment, followed by priests. Feeling kinda bad for Druids and especially shamans though ... our lifelong Shaman healer made his alt pala his new main, because he was too frustrated over his own performance and healing output in hardmodes. You know something ain't right when his blue geared paladin easily outdoes the numbers his mostly 359 geared Shaman did. Shammies seriously need some love right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro
I'm more amazed at how bad my dps was the last LFG random non-heroic dungeon I did was. Grim Batol...at level 85, with 4.5k dps as a destro warlock. I was doing better at level 80 on a target dummy at 8k dps, though not quite that good in dungeons as things had a tendancy to die befor I could get more than one Immolate duration on them...and usually faster than that. I Grim Batol things didn't die that fast (aside from the stuff we wounded from the drakes). The DK in the group was doing I guess 12k and the hunter I think 9k with the Pally tank at 5.5k. I haven't been below the tank in non-rushed dungeon content in a while (aside from if it is a pally verses a lot of undead, that extra damage mounts up).

Maybe my rotation is rusty, or maybe I don't have the stats I need (at level 80 I was in T10-ICC gear which allowed for a lot of haste and crit...now I have more Mastery than anything else it seem like, with Haste being the lower stat even to crit because of what stuff I could get...and that's with haste enchants and gems)
4.5k is definitely low, you should be able to manage notably more. What rotation are you using ? Are you keeping the ISF buff up ? Corruption ?


Regarding stats, crit is the strongest stat for destro at the moment, followed by haste, then mastery. Basically, you should be reforging your mastery to crit/haste when possible. (Haste pulls ahead if you can hit new thresholds for immolate ticks, those being 10%, 30%, 50% haste), but i guess 30% might be a bit out of your reach if you just dinged 85. My advice would be not to worry about the haste thresholds - if you keep collecting gear with crit/haste you will arrive at the 30% tick naturally, and 50% is something attainable only in BiS gear anyways.

Gemming for haste though ? That's not a good idea, unless you meant int+haste gems in yellow sockets. Int is by far the strongest stat now for any caster, nothing else comes close. When determining gear upgrades, your first question should be "does it have more Int than my current piece"

Destro locks are in a very strong position right now, just need to gear up some probably and get that rust off your rotation. My DPS on trash can vary a good deal (though usually around the 12k -14k region ... just don't aoe, Destro has horrid AOE, shadowflame usage aside) and goes up on bosses where i have a chance to get going. ~17k is the norm on bosses for me, highest has been 19.7k or so ...damn, was so close to breaking 20 (No, not on Karsh Steelbender). Though i am way outgearing heroics at this point i guess.
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Old 2011-01-25, 04:49   Link #6995
Ithekro
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Did better today with 5.7k dps in HoO. I think the group I was with in Grim Batol just outgeared me to the point my dots didn't work completely.

I've not been keeping ISF up as I've not gotten Shadowbolt into my rotation unless I get hit (backlash), then instant SB. I've still not come to a satifactory rotation that allows for Felflame to help refresh Immolate each time. Also forget about soulfire unless it procs off my imp. And I have an annoying tendancy to not use Corruption (also sometimes forget to useDark Intent...but that's only because I don't use it for dailies, and so far have only been running a single dungeon a day). I've not been using the demon soul spell since I'm not sure when to use it.

Basically I'm still using more or less the same rotation I would use in ICC10, just with instant Soulfires added every once in a while and sometimes a Felflame if I can get it off before Immolate drops off. CoE, BoA, Immolate, Chaos Bolt, Conflagrate, Incinerate x3, (Felflame), Conflagrate, Chaos Bolt, Incinerate x2, BoA, (Felflame) Conflagrate....Sometimes I remember to add Corruption when I hear Dark Intent going off. Sometimes I cast Immolate before BoA because of dailies since CoE doesn't tag the target, and BoA doesn't until it ticks...thus I use it the other way to slow down people taking my mobs (instead of opening with FelFlame, which is only if someone is stealing named mobs repeatedly..that or either shadowflame or shadowfury because you don't have to target the mob first.), but then I also use Conflagrate before Chaos Bolt for such times since it takes just a little longer than a GCD for Conflagrate to come up after Immolate is on the target it seems.

This seems to be muscle memory than anything else. As dailies and leveling require different rotations than dungeons. Fortunately I'm getting closer to being exalted with all the Cataclysm rep groups that have dailies and won't have to do those aside from grinding Guild Rep or getting gold. One assumes if the guild was running heroics for badges like ini Wrath, I'm not be this rusty, but since we pretty much only run one normal for the Justice Points right now...yeah...rusty.

I've mostly been gemming Int or Int+Hit so I can be sure not to miss. The one haste gem I have was just to fill a yellow slot with what we had in the guild bank (a +30 haste gem) All the other slots are better gems than that one.

I probably have too much mastery since both of my ilvl333 trinkets are mastery (one replacing an ilvl325 int with mastery proc trinket, with ilvl333 mastery and spell power proc below 35%...the other being the engineering dragonling trinket) Since my mastery is at 19% while Haste is at 6% and crit is at 11%. I'm not hit capped for raiding. I am trying to balance my Hit to be hit capped for level 87 mobs.

I suppose I'm back where I was before patch 3.3 came out...except that I know I can raid as oppose to figuring we'd never raid. Only this time I'm not going for pvp gear at all (aside from Tol Barad rep gear since those are really pve weapons and trinkets) The only gear I have that is under ilvl333 is my wand and by helm. The helm I intend to replace after I get my first Chaos Orb in heroics (Engineering ilvl359 helm), and the wand just needs to wait for a drop.

I did manage to get all my professions maxed out today. Even First Aid, that I almost never use since I can heal myself in almost every instance. Archeology, Fishing, Cooking as well are done.
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Old 2011-01-25, 04:57   Link #6996
Konakaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
The increased mana cost for Paladin spells isn't going to change that much really - Palies are still the strongest healer by a fair margin at the moment, followed by priests. Feeling kinda bad for Druids and especially shamans though ... our lifelong Shaman healer made his alt pala his new main, because he was too frustrated over his own performance and healing output in hardmodes. You know something ain't right when his blue geared paladin easily outdoes the numbers his mostly 359 geared Shaman did. Shammies seriously need some love right now.
I'd have to agree druid and shaman heals need some buffing from what I've seen, and while I don't think anyone with at least i346 gear is gonna be effected too much by this, I am worried for the repercussions on entry level HC people, or people leveling as holy paladin.
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Old 2011-01-25, 06:11   Link #6997
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I've not been keeping ISF up as I've not gotten Shadowbolt into my rotation unless I get hit (backlash), then instant SB. I've still not come to a satifactory rotation that allows for Felflame to help refresh Immolate each time. Also forget about soulfire unless it procs off my imp. And I have an annoying tendancy to not use Corruption (also sometimes forget to useDark Intent...but that's only because I don't use it for dailies, and so far have only been running a single dungeon a day). I've not been using the demon soul spell since I'm not sure when to use it.
By ISF i mean Improved Soul Fire, the bread and butter for all warlock specs at the moment - this buff should have as close to 100% uptime as possible, it's your first priority.

You were referring to the 5% crit buff ... which i don't usually bother with, i don't have the room on my keybinds for that, and in raids someone else brings it (also a non-issue come 4.0.6, when incinerate will proc it as well).

Dark intent is good, both for the haste and dot damage ... even if you don't have any appreciable dot/hot class present, it's worth casting for the haste anyways.

Demon Soul ...just macro it in to your incinerate or something and forget about it.

Rotation (priority) wise, what destro currently looks like is something like this:

Keep ISF up > keep immolate up > Conflagrate > Bane of Doom (Destro never uses Agony, if the mob is going to live less than 15 sec, don't use anything at all) keep Corruption up > Shadowflame (if you are in melee range, the dot on this thing is powerful) > Chaos Bolt > Shadowburn > Incinerate spam.

Dots should be refreshed just before the last tick (except doom) without allowing them to fall off - you no longer reset the duration when refreshing, only extend it. I usually start recasting my immolate (or try to time it so to the best of my ability) when 2-2.5 seconds are left. Don't use Fel Flame unless you are moving, it shouldn't be in your rotation while standing still, it does pitiful damage per GCD and refreshing immolate via recasting is better (Immolate's cast time is the same as Fel Flame actually for all intents and purposes when standing still, because Fel Flame still subjects you to the GCD).

Destro is quite the attention hog compared to what it was during WOTLK days, there is a lot to keep track of
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Old 2011-01-25, 12:58   Link #6998
Ithekro
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Oh, I thought you meant Improved Shadow Bolt, which I've been calling Improved Shadow and Flame (ISF) since I know it will apply to Incinerate soon. Did they change Improved Soul Fire so it gives the haste bonus below 80%? I keep forgetting that.

Question, is an 8% increase in crit chance to Bane of Doom (and Bane of Agony, whcih is why I way using BoA) worth two talent points? Or should those two be somewhere else? (is 8% more damage for corruption worth it in its place if one of the other is going to be up a lot?) Or just throw them in Improved Life Tap, or Demonic Aegis so I heal myself even more when my spells land after the Fel Armor change n 4.0.6 (but I like my passive health regeneration, and my healer does too). (I'm presently running a 2/8/31 build)
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Old 2011-01-26, 05:39   Link #6999
Skyfall
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12% increase in corruption's damage will outdo 8% crit on bane, so that's where you should invest for the biggest DPS gain. I am running 3/7/31, which is the standard Destro build as of now. (Don't mind the 20 int 20 haste gems, i am gemming haste instead of crit so i can offspec in to Demo more easily and don't have to regem each time, haste is still a good stat for destro, while crit isn't so much for demo).

And yes, ISF works all the time regardless of mob health, look at the tooltip
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Old 2011-01-26, 08:12   Link #7000
Kyero Fox
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i was able to get into a heroic dead mines, but for some reason i kept getting derp DPS who kept wipping on the first boss seconds after he does the Fire wall thing... so then its just me and the healer.. it would have been enough if the healer would stay by me to get the adds off them with my Hammer of rightiousness...
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