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Old 2012-05-07, 20:07   Link #7701
Nixl
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Join Date: Sep 2009
I think in MoP, at least from what I read in the dev blog, they are taking away the roll option almost completely in certain raid/group settings and the system does it automatically for the player.

All I know, whatever happened in the months I have been gone must have been toxic in the raid finder if they are implementing a change just to stop people from stealing gear.
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Old 2012-05-07, 20:11   Link #7702
GDB
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I think that's just for raids. The current raid NbG is going into the dungeons.
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Old 2012-05-08, 11:46   Link #7703
NightbatŪ
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Originally Posted by Nixl View Post
Although I am wondering if they are making offspec rolls completely impossible, which might be annoying
Oh but that's an easy fix: lootpriority could be made if all Mainspecs pass, offspec gets to roll - problem solved
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Old 2012-05-08, 12:10   Link #7704
GDB
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That's basically how LFR works at the moment. Main spec + usable = Need roll + 100 (thus automatically making it so main spec always beats off spec). Off spec + usable = Need roll + 0 (thus making it so if all main specs pass, greed, or disenchant, the off spec will win). Not usable = greed.
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Old 2012-05-08, 16:34   Link #7705
NightbatŪ
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Ah well, it's not like I ever been a supporter for LFD

if one thing killed the social aspect of WoW, it's that
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Old 2012-05-08, 16:49   Link #7706
Nixl
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Ah well, it's not like I ever been a supporter for LFD

if one thing killed the social aspect of WoW, it's that
I am not sure I agree. Outside of guilds, I never really met anyone that I needed social interaction with. If anything, LFD made people impatient and less inclined to stay in a bad group when they can get better, but it did not destroy social connections.

I would argue that what hurt the social aspects of WoW was it's own popularity in conjunction with the power of anonymity online. What was once a Warcraft nerd/MMO community became indistinguishable with online communities elsewhere. Look at places like 4chan, Youtube, Reddit, etc or even other gaming communities like DOTA. You have a very vitriolic discourse among users driven by the protection/freedom on anonymity.

Warcraft was not immune and with its popularity it became no different than any other online community out there. I simply do not think we can blame Blizzard for what has largely become the internet community in general.
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Old 2012-05-08, 17:20   Link #7707
GDB
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No, LFD definitely pushed the bolder down the slope of destroying the society of the game. With it, you no longer had to care about your reputation. You had people being complete asshats just because they could. You had ninjas doing their thing because they could. You'd have people do nothing but auto-attack and pull to prevent kicks, because they could.

Yes, anonymity contributed, but you were always anonymous outside of your character name. When that no longer mattered, then true anonymous behavior began.

The problem is, it's impossible to fix at this point. Even removing LFD/LFR wouldn't solve it. People wouldn't get better, they'd just quit, because those without good guilds wouldn't be able to group up anymore. They'd get bored, Blizzard would lose massive money, and the game would end.
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Old 2012-05-08, 17:36   Link #7708
Nixl
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My issue with that is if LFD was such a huge culprit then why are we seeing the same behavior in so many other online communities across different game genres? Dota, AoC, LoL, TOR, Aion, HoN, and so forth. Not all those games have LFD, but still have rough communities. For that reason I still think it revolves more around the state of the internet community as a whole and how cheap the investment of characters/gaming have become.

Let me start by saying that that I experienced ninjas, assholes, and like way before LFD was even implemented. Part of the reason I quit TBC was that my guilds self destructed over one reason or another or plainly just how rude many players were. I do not think the rudeness started with the LFD.

In Vanilla WoW, it is true that you had tight knit communities, but one had to in order to raid. WoW was not the mega giant that it became and raids required 40 people.

Furthermore, leveling and gearing was such an endeavor back then that if you totally screwed up your reputation you had to start all over again. Vanilla WoW was a grind and no sane man or women would want to do it after investing so heavily in a character. Leveling and gearing became easier, characters meant less.

During Wotlk the game became much easier, thus the investment meant less and there were many many more people. LFD may have exacerbated the issue in some respects, but I do not think it was the root cause to a vitriolic community.
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Old 2012-05-08, 20:04   Link #7709
NightbatŪ
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Funny that you say that, since before the LFD the only times I had asshats in pugs were rare
the whole thing started once Battlegroups were merged, the BGs became a festering pool of childish rude player calling eachother out for no reason at all

No LFD is not the sole contributor
But add the chance to 'disappear' (name/server/character/race/faction/whatever-change) and you've got a recipe for egocentric rude bastards willing to get over everyone's backs and knowing they're gonna get away with it

Why be civil and social and make an effort when these days you even can anonimously join the same guild you just got kicked out of and start pulling the same shit all over again?
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Old 2012-05-09, 04:41   Link #7710
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Well, the panda dances are amusing... TBH I like em.... but.. yee gods, it has that damnable song in my head again.



"Dear Gods, what have we done."
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Old 2012-05-09, 08:38   Link #7711
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
"Dear Gods, what have we done."
Jesse's comments are always fun. ^^ I love the dances though, the animation is great and the Panda models blow the older races out of the water (Goblin is still pretty good, but Worgen and the others look really dated now). The new character models should be a treat if they're anywhere near as good as the Pandas.
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Old 2012-05-09, 08:48   Link #7712
GDB
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Worgen isn't that bad. At least they have fingers in their Worgen form, unlike the perpetual flipper that all the other TBC and Vanilla races have.
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Old 2012-05-09, 11:02   Link #7713
Nixl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ View Post
Funny that you say that, since before the LFD the only times I had asshats in pugs were rare
the whole thing started once Battlegroups were merged, the BGs became a festering pool of childish rude player calling eachother out for no reason at all

No LFD is not the sole contributor
But add the chance to 'disappear' (name/server/character/race/faction/whatever-change) and you've got a recipe for egocentric rude bastards willing to get over everyone's backs and knowing they're gonna get away with it

Why be civil and social and make an effort when these days you even can anonimously join the same guild you just got kicked out of and start pulling the same shit all over again?
To be honest, I have encountered less asshats during Wotlk and Cata then Vanilla and TBC. It is a strange stroke of luck on my end then.

My issue is that these attitudes exists in other games (LoL, HoN, TOR, AoC, etc) and even websites (4chan, Youtube, Reddit). For that reason I do not think we can blame LFD for something that has taken over large portions of the internet, including WoW.

Did it open up a new avenue to be rude? Yes, but LFD is just a tool to find players. The fault rests with the community in WoW and in other internet communities, not a tool.

Edit: God I hope they have new models previews for the old races soon. Needs humans that do not look like creepy clay figures and Dranei...with more /waggle.
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Old 2012-05-09, 11:28   Link #7714
GDB
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They've already said they won't have new models ready for MoP. At most, they have Dwarves, Humans, and Orcs done. They don't intend to release them without having all of them done, so expect them in the next expansion at the earliest. Unless if course they start bleeding out money, in which case expect them to be quickly slapped together.
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Old 2012-05-09, 11:41   Link #7715
Nixl
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
They've already said they won't have new models ready for MoP. At most, they have Dwarves, Humans, and Orcs done. They don't intend to release them without having all of them done, so expect them in the next expansion at the earliest. Unless if course they start bleeding out money, in which case expect them to be quickly slapped together.
I want my /waggle 2.0 damn it.
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Old 2012-05-09, 11:56   Link #7716
Solace
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I doubt it will be another expansion before we see them, since they've admitted to already working on them and stating one of them is done already (Dwarves). We'll probably see them go out mid-expansion so that they have something to keep interest going after the "rush to see all new content" boom wears off and players move into stuff like alts, challenge mode epeen contests, and achievement hunting.

Besides, this expansion isn't ready to go out the door at all, and I doubt it will be ready until the end of summer at the very earliest. They don't even have half the systems in the game yet. No raids, no scenarios, no challenge modes, level isn't capped yet, half the dungeons are missing, etc. And what is there is incomplete and very buggy. The beta is playable but there is a ton of stuff to do. To be honest it's impressive how hard Blizzard is working on MoP, you can really see the effort they're putting into the content. It's leagues past Cata even in its current state.

So if I had to put money on it, I'd say new character models no later than a year from now, and probably tied to a new content push like a raid or something.
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Old 2012-05-09, 12:06   Link #7717
Nixl
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I also do not think the xpac is as close as many people.

I remember a podcast stating that all the races are getting monk, but the monk class requires animations only found in the Pandaren model at the moment.

I have no clue how Blizzard could solve that issue without having new models follow asap.
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Old 2012-05-09, 12:47   Link #7718
Solace
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They'll have to make the animations for the old models anyway, since they'll likely offer a toggle for players unhappy with the new look and for those with lower end systems. Other MMO's have done this too to prevent backlash. It's more work for the company, but beats bad PR and lost accounts from people who don't like the changes.

Besides, it's just the Vanilla races getting a revamp. The BC and Cata races are going to stay the same.
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Old 2012-05-09, 12:48   Link #7719
Awrya
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Quick question, any comments from Blizz how PVP power works for healers? For damage they can deal more damage against players, do healers heal higher as well?
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Old 2012-05-09, 12:55   Link #7720
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
Well, the panda dances are amusing... TBH I like em.... but.. yee gods, it has that damnable song in my head again.



"Dear Gods, what have we done."
yet we still have horrible textures for humans.
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