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Old 2007-08-20, 08:23   Link #81
Klashikari
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That's kinda hard to say. Basically, Arthas power isn't exactly possible to "deduce".
I don't think we can ever reverse engineering ner'zhul power, since it was kinda erratic (supposed to grow exponentially, when he became the lich king, because of Kil'Jaeden). and i don't think we can say that "Lich King Arthas" is the "sum" of [Death Knight Arthas] and [Lich King Ner'zhul].

But as far as i can see with The Sundering, Azshara is probably as powerful or even more powerful than Arthas.
Being the queen of the first generation of the Kaldorei isn't something to discard.
That means she was bathed with the energies of the first well of eternity. She also participates a lot on the research of the arcane energies, and was able to get a contact with Sargeras.

If we mention the gigantic battle she did against Furion, you can tell she is extremely badass already. (One special Note: She was already mroe powerful than Mannoroth at that period of time. In fact, it is revealed that only Sargeras and Archimonde could pretend to surpass her in powers)

But that doesn't end, since now, she got completely mutated from the energies of the well of eternity + the possible corruption of the ancient gods, who were plotting behind this, as they were taking advantage that sargeras wouldn't be able to invade azeroth. And thus she became the queen of the naga

A third potential energy source is the Maelstrom, the everlasting scar of the sundering.

Therefore, i believe all of these details are enough to say that Azshara isn't exactly a "cheapy" boss, but rather one of the most powerful entity on Azeroth.
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Old 2007-08-20, 08:33   Link #82
StarTouch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Isn't Azshara more powerful than Arthas anyway?
It is really tough to say. All one can say is that Azshara is around Sargeras / Archimonde / Kil'jaeden's level. (She forced Mannoroth to back down and realise that only Sargeras and Archimonde could match / have a chance to surpass her.)
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Old 2007-08-20, 12:33   Link #83
Demongod86
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If Azshara was more powerful than Arthas, she would have risen up and pwned someone or something by now.

She hasn't.
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Old 2007-08-20, 12:51   Link #84
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
If Azshara was more powerful than Arthas, she would have risen up and pwned someone or something by now.

She hasn't.
err... you know... Baddies in warcraft has the horrible habit to stay idle

to be more serious, well, even arthas stays idle in Icecrown (frankly, sending Kel'thuzad and some loosy undead army is laughable, if not, insulting ~~")
Same for Sargeras and Kil'jaeden, who aren't exactly active. (Illidan might be stuck because of Both alliances stronhold, the Wildhammer and the Shadowmoon, but well... i believe it hard that he is stuck in his black temple because of this)

If we take account that Azshara was contacted by the old gods and they were trying to get their hands on the dragon soul (by corrupting Neltharion, into Deathwing, with a failed attempt to corrupt Malfurion, while he was fleeing with brox), and tainting the emerald dream, they are probably preparing something huge ^^

Aside of the "plan", there is also another problem : the maelstrom itself so.
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Old 2007-08-21, 13:30   Link #85
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Its hard for me to care about WoW anymore. I quit the game a month ago since PvP was getting out of control. Even with a 2k arena rating team, I was bored out of my mind. With the new expansion coming, more talents are going to mean more imbalances in PvP so screw it. :3

Doesn't look like they added much to PvP anyways.

WoW = Waiting on Warhammer for me.
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Old 2007-08-23, 12:09   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Well after they kill Arthas, at least they'll have no more famous characters to stupidly slaughter. Oh well. RIP Illidan and Arthas, the two most badass warcraft characters in history .
thats why theres still Deathwing.
and the emerald dream still left isnt there? :P
any ways WoW has still many many strong charecters such as Kil'Jaeden which hasnt been introduced yet and also Archimonde is still left to kill which is probably THE strongest Boss type humanoid we'll fight because HE DOES destroy dalaran and trys to destroy the world tree to keep the night elf's from being immortal :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
err... you know... Baddies in warcraft has the horrible habit to stay idle

to be more serious, well, even arthas stays idle in Icecrown (frankly, sending Kel'thuzad and some loosy undead army is laughable, if not, insulting ~~")
Same for Sargeras and Kil'jaeden, who aren't exactly active. (Illidan might be stuck because of Both alliances stronhold, the Wildhammer and the Shadowmoon, but well... i believe it hard that he is stuck in his black temple because of this)

If we take account that Azshara was contacted by the old gods and they were trying to get their hands on the dragon soul (by corrupting Neltharion, into Deathwing, with a failed attempt to corrupt Malfurion, while he was fleeing with brox), and tainting the emerald dream, they are probably preparing something huge ^^

Aside of the "plan", there is also another problem : the maelstrom itself so.
also :/ Sargera's is dead <---- Kil'jaeden and Archimonde took over his power literally
Azshara From my point of view is dead. <---------------------------------------------- thats what i think because she does sink down to bottom of the ocean. <------------ never mind klashikari just clarifyed of her becoming a naga thanks for the tip

Dragon soul which is also the Demon soul is destroyed in the book Day of the dragon by a former young mage
Rhonin by Neltharion's own scale. So all the other aspects gain their strength's back and chase after the Deathwing and he was critically injured. but hes still alive some where in probably some volcano and such awaiting for his time to rise. i hope this post helped even by a little

Last edited by grandia09; 2007-08-23 at 12:16. Reason: need to put moreeeeeeee stuff in
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Old 2007-08-23, 17:56   Link #87
Jaden
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Hey, just my 3 cents on this expansion and some other concerns...

As for Illidan being there for "players to stupidly slaughter" why don't you go kill him and then come here to boast? Same with his lieutenants. And there isn't anything wrong with making them raid bosses anyway. I thought after Frozen Throne it was where their stories ended. They were defeated and with nowhere to go to, impending execution from their demon master. They are still around in TBC because Kil'Jaeden thought to pit them against the Naaru. Perfect raid bosses. They'll think of something to make raiding Arthas acceptable, will just have to wait and see.

Before the expansion I hear Blizzard will add the Sunwell as a raid instance (25 man, harder than Black Temple). That probably means the expansion isn't coming out for a while. They also plan on reviving Naxxramas in norhtrend to give people another go at it, there wasn't much time to raid it before TBC. This means they might do the same with other places too, to make raid content more available.

When I first heard of playable Death Knight I figured it'd be something like playing as orcs/monsters in LotRO. But they'll be just a normal class, only with the unlocking quest. I can't get the ridiculous image out of my mind where paladins and death knights fight alongside. But, it seems the meaning of "Death Knight" will change again. At first they were shadow council warlocks that had taken over the bodies of human knights, next they were the Lich King's champions, now they'll just be doods and chicks that use runeblades and necromancy. Not really worse than warlocks, so I guess I'll get used to it.
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Old 2007-08-24, 03:06   Link #88
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandia09 View Post
thats why theres still Deathwing.
and the emerald dream still left isnt there? :P
any ways WoW has still many many strong charecters such as Kil'Jaeden which hasnt been introduced yet and also Archimonde is still left to kill which is probably THE strongest Boss type humanoid we'll fight because HE DOES destroy dalaran and trys to destroy the world tree to keep the night elf's from being immortal :/
Errr, no. Archimonde is already considered dead, and the Caverns of Time already give an opportunity to fight him.

Quote:
also :/ Sargera's is dead <---- Kil'jaeden and Archimonde took over his power literally
Azshara From my point of view is dead. <---------------------------------------------- thats what i think because she does sink down to bottom of the ocean. <------------ never mind klashikari just clarifyed of her becoming a naga thanks for the tip
That's not true. Sargeras was never defeated to begin with. What happened with Aegwynn was just a trap he could lay for Medivh.
As for what happened when Khadgar and Lothar killed Medivh, that just freed the sorcerer being corrupted by sargeras. Sargeras controlled him just with a part of his soul. Basically, his bulky and massive body is still somewhere in the nether.

Azshara isn't dead either. the major explosion and the maelström forced them to fall back in the sea, especially if you add the old gods offer.
Quote:
Dragon soul which is also the Demon soul is destroyed in the book Day of the dragon by a former young mage
Rhonin by Neltharion's own scale. So all the other aspects gain their strength's back and chase after the Deathwing and he was critically injured. but hes still alive some where in probably some volcano and such awaiting for his time to rise. i hope this post helped even by a little
I know the Dragon Soul has been destroyed (while it was hold by Zuhuled, who gave it to Nekros), but i mentioned it, since the Old Gods were kinda strange, plotting various things behind. Hopefully, they won't be "weak" as C'thun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Hey, just my 3 cents on this expansion and some other concerns...

As for Illidan being there for "players to stupidly slaughter" why don't you go kill him and then come here to boast? Same with his lieutenants. And there isn't anything wrong with making them raid bosses anyway. I thought after Frozen Throne it was where their stories ended. They were defeated and with nowhere to go to, impending execution from their demon master. They are still around in TBC because Kil'Jaeden thought to pit them against the Naaru. Perfect raid bosses. They'll think of something to make raiding Arthas acceptable, will just have to wait and see.
The problem isn't actually the difficulty or anything. I don't think i ever implied that Illidan encounter was free loot
More likely, it is the execution of the event, which is barely one, with Maiev popping like an emo assassin from nowhere, and just giving 1-2 yell line. end, loot, next!

Personally, i was expecting some lore and other twists. (i don't understand why Illidan didn't flee, while Kael'thas did...)
but oh well, i don't see that a problem that both can be "boss". But since how illidan was thrown as a "meaty loot hardcore boss", i'm wondering if they will coever Arthas lore. (quests aren't exactly enough, but we will see)
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Old 2007-08-25, 01:21   Link #89
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I just decided to return to WoW. I just heard of this new expansion. It sounds interesting. I just discovered I have to create my character all over again :/ oh well. maybe I'll try a pvp type character. Anyone know a good race/class/talent tree? I like playing the Horde, but I don't mind trying the alliance either.
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Old 2007-08-25, 08:01   Link #90
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
If Azshara was more powerful than Arthas, she would have risen up and pwned someone or something by now.

She hasn't.
I dont think , in this case its a matter of who is stronger and who isnt. I think Arthas and Azshara have about the same amount of power, However Arthas have a bigger army under hiscommand. Arthas has at least 2 strong and loyal servant while Azshara is probably the only super strong person in her army. And Nagas are sea creatures, so i doubt they will match Arthas and in his army in an icy land.
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Old 2007-08-25, 17:57   Link #91
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Just thought to note that even if Illidan and Arthas die in-game, Blizzard still has the (very likely) possibility of ignoring it. After all, they have stated in the lore that the Black Temple was an impenetrable fortress, so they can simply ignore the fact that players killed him off and say "Well, it also remained impenetrable!"

Even though they are killable by players, it shouldn't be presumed that they automatically die in the lore too.
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Old 2007-08-25, 20:50   Link #92
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Just thought to note that even if Illidan and Arthas die in-game, Blizzard still has the (very likely) possibility of ignoring it. After all, they have stated in the lore that the Black Temple was an impenetrable fortress, so they can simply ignore the fact that players killed him off and say "Well, it also remained impenetrable!"

Even though they are killable by players, it shouldn't be presumed that they automatically die in the lore too.
I think you got a point. Maybe in warcraft 4 they will just continue the story from where they left the story and also the same in wc4 expansion ( asuming there will be one). Although many people play WOW , they dont ( or cant) folow the story.
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Old 2007-08-27, 02:33   Link #93
StarTouch
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I am 99.9999999% sure that Blizzard has stated in the past (if you ask me to dig up the source, I'm afraid I can't do that as it's lost in the god-knows-where regions of history) that World of Warcraft will continue where WC3 : TFT left off (storyline-wise). This is the reason I picked up WoW to begin with in the past. I wanted to know the aftermath of Arthas claiming the frozen throne and fusing with Ner'zhul.

My theorycraft on the matter (concerning the storyline) would be that if / when blizzard pulls out a Warcraft 4, they would introduce a whole new line-up of heroes / villains and MAYBE bring back a few "old" heroes.

Edit : While Illidan's Black Temple is indeed an impenetrable fortress as has been said, players actually enter it (lore-wise, through quests) as a distraction was provided by Xi'ri and the Naaru forces. This enabled Akama, Maiev and the players to happily skip into the Black Temple. By no means were the front doors busted wide open through an outright frontal attack.
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Old 2007-08-27, 22:38   Link #94
Demongod86
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For being so impenetrable, the orcs sure had no problems...I will forever believe that WoW is the ultimate milking attempt...more than all of the final fantasy 7 spinoffs, more than X-2, the star wars prequels, you name it...
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Old 2007-08-27, 23:43   Link #95
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Blizz are idiots. They should release more than just a sissy expansion. You can mostly complete it in under 1-2 months, 1 month if you're really fast. Adding 1 hero class dont really make the game that uber, unless.... nvm I still don't have enough info to argue about this.
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Old 2007-08-28, 04:27   Link #96
StarTouch
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Blizz are idiots. They should release more than just a sissy expansion. You can mostly complete it in under 1-2 months, 1 month if you're really fast. Adding 1 hero class dont really make the game that uber, unless.... nvm I still don't have enough info to argue about this.
Personally, I'd be amazingly impressed if a guild / raid can clear Karazhan to Black Temple in 1-2 months

In terms of PvE content, there will always be some obvious "cockblocks" to prevent raiders from progressing too quickly OR a few unintentional bugs in a few encounters that would make them virtually impossible to beat (which would take blizz like a month to fix).

For example, Lady Vashj mind control (before she was nerfed). GG mind-controlling the main tank and she runs rampant on the raid killing everyone! And yes, there's not a thing you can do about it. Nihilum did beat Lady Vashj but it was a fluke that she despawned and respawned again with 1% hp (stated on their site). The only other guild Method did it twice, once by abusing a bug in fearward and another...soulstoning the entire raid (before blizz nerfed this tactic). Other obviously overtuned bosses included Al'ar, Leotheras and a few others that I can't remember off the top of my head (they've all been nerfed now though, pretty easy atm).
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Old 2007-08-28, 18:18   Link #97
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I wish they could make the Scourge a Playable race...maybe not directly with Arthas, but it would b e cool if it could be through missions that inderectly ties to Arthas and the Scourge. Right now though I'm just working on creating a new guild...I named it the Secret Scourge Society, but I'm finding it hard to find people to join.
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Old 2007-08-29, 07:39   Link #98
Westlo
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Sunwell the last 25 man raid for TBC final boss will be.... the big KJ... seriously you better be stopping him from getting summoned through the Sunwell and not actually end up killing a weakened KJ who just got summoned.
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Old 2007-08-29, 08:57   Link #99
StarTouch
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We'll be probably facing off against Kael'thas in a "round 2" and Kil'jaeden in a half-summoned / twisted state (the former is my theorycraft and SHOULD be correct...the latter is obtained from wowwiki.com, though wowwiki.com is not always 100% correct hehe. Just a disclaimer ^_^)
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Old 2007-08-29, 14:41   Link #100
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@Westlo what's your avatar from?

Well personally I don't mind the expansion coming out. I'm interested on how everything will play out. Right now I'm just happy that I finally got my guild started : )

As for story-wise they'll just create an expansion for when Warcraft 4 comes out that will coincide w/ the story or they'll call it another dimesion or another plausable history for the world of warcraft. At least that's what Sony did with Everquest...
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