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View Poll Results: Ratings for Shippuuden - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 5 5.10%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 3 3.06%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 10.20%
7 out of 10 : Good 17 17.35%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 11.22%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 15 15.31%
4 out of 10 : Poor 8 8.16%
3 out of 10 : Bad 7 7.14%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 5 5.10%
1 out of 10 : Painful 17 17.35%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-08-11, 01:28   Link #61
ShadowClone
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A LOT could happen in 2.5 years, like
Spoiler:


I can forgive THAT, but the HORRIBLE, REPETITIVE animation in the clone fights? NO WAY!
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Old 2007-08-11, 01:47   Link #62
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0Taku0
(if all the posts from people who thinks Naruto is a whiny little bitch, or them not caring about the main character any more, is not enough to show you this, then I don’t know what is).
Nah, not really. Because people were complaining about Naruto's attitude when the manga originally came out. It's only natural that anime viewers are going to come to the same conclusion. Hell, people still whine about Naruto's character in the manga. And when those chapters are finally animated, people will attribute those same flaws to the anime team and say the manga handled it fine.

Quote:
BTW, I seriously don’t remember even one flashback of Sasuke from Sakura during the Sakura & Chiyo vs Sasori fight (I never said in the whole Manga, just during that fight), I could be wrong however right now I'm too lazy to go check the Manga . None the less, it doesn’t matter because my point still stands
Oh, it's there alright. When Sasori releases the poison gas. That's why I say you should re-read the manga before making rants comparing the anime to the manga. I got the point of your posts fine. But reading them, it seemed to me your memory of how and when the events were shown is slightly off. The craptacular animation, however I will make no effort to defend.
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Old 2007-08-11, 01:54   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
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No thats how it was in the manga chapter as well.
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Old 2007-08-11, 02:48   Link #64
Kazuma77
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you know, even in anime, hair grow maybe she cut it again afterwards..
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Old 2007-08-11, 05:20   Link #65
Sakuyakun
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This episode is painful. It's like the animation studio used up all the budget on the first episode and didn't have a choice but use southpark's animation techniques. This is like "how to sabotage your company reputation".
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Old 2007-08-11, 08:38   Link #66
Kenu
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Rubbish episode.

The whole fight dragged out in the manga and I can't believe they are dragging it out even more in the anime..

I shouldn't be surprised.

Bleagh rubbish.


I didn't watch DBZ because of the long drawn out fights which nothing happens for 5 episodes, now it's happening all again to Naruto.
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Old 2007-08-11, 10:05   Link #67
Hunter
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Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
Yes Naruto is "like that" in the Manga(I am not denying that and, I have not been) however keeping him as he is for that many scene changes has effected the way some people view Naruto (just read all the posts in this thread and, in the 22-23 thread and you will see). I just wanted to inform the people to not blame Naruto because it is different in the Manga. That, it is the Anime Team who is extending it more then necessary, while you may feel "a bit" I would use the word excessively / too much (for Naruto's own good), Naruto is not a whiny little bitch, and he does have control of his actions.
I have to agree with Sabaku Kyu here, re-read the threads about the equivalent chapters 2 years ago and you will find the exact same remarks about Naruto behavior. I find everything happening in the anime lengthy due to the current 1:1 equivalence but everything the anime has shown about Naruto has happened in the manga and repeatedly so. It may seem longer (and it is) but it isn't something particular to the representation of Naruto, everything seem longer when the anime team chooses to anime 3 minute out of 2-3 pages.
That being said I don't see how this representation is misleading, this behavior was the only thing Naruto had shown at this point, showing anything else would be misleading.


Personally I found way more concerning the destruction of the cave among other examples, that's the kind of little thing making the anime unsavory for me :



See that's the state of the cave after a little while, seems pretty much the same than the anime right? But in the manga the way the cave ends like this isn't shown, it happens off-panel. We only hear Sasori commenting about Sakura's unnatural strength.

A gigantic cave completely destroyed, huge block of rocks still falling in the water seemingly from the sky due to the fight between unnatural strength and huge block of Iron Sand : in my imagination that's definitively badass.
In the anime we are actually shown what happen, the rectangular-shaped Iron Sand got in the roof and the whole thing broken down alone after that : well that was definitively boring.

Out of the horrible pacing (12 pages for 20 minutes this week, impressive) I think this is the real problem of Shippuden : imagination simply have 10000 fold the budget the anime team has, so for many people the fights were way more epic in their memory than what they are seeing now.
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Old 2007-08-11, 10:13   Link #68
Hiking_Bear
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Maybe 10 minutes of new material. The rest was Gai and his team punching and kicking against their clones and the animation was like looped 5 times for each of them. Then, it was probably the same animation of Naruto and Kakashi chasing Deidara from last week except redubbed with new dialogue. Then, Sakura had two flashbacks to previous episodes and then we see her finally take on Sasori's iron sand. Very slow-paced episode this time.
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Old 2007-08-11, 12:13   Link #69
ghstwrld
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Agreed with what the Hunter fellow said. Shippuuden has felt uninspired pretty much since the first episode. Studio Pierrot has no command over the source material, even more so than in part 1. Hopefully, things will get better.
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Old 2007-08-11, 16:34   Link #70
0TaKu0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
That being said I don't see how this representation is misleading, this behavior was the only thing Naruto had shown at this point, showing anything else would be misleading.
Yes, I'm not stating that the representation of Naruto's behavior at this point is misleading (nor did I ever), in fact I took the liberty of typing the same thing again because, it seems my point was misunderstood again. "So my point being is not that, what Naruto is doing in the Anime did not happen but, it just didn’t happen this many times (a scene change every episode)".

I have looked over the chapters since the start of the fight, the anime is roughly at chapter 270, the first scene change to Naruto and Kakashi takes place in chapter 266 (one chapter after the Sakura and Chiyo vs. Sasori fight starts), and the second scene change takes place in chapter 270 (where the anime is at right now), 4 chapters later. My point being is if I were to compare the anime episodes to manga chapters then a scene change to Naruto and Kakashi would occur from chapter 265 all the way through 270. However, in reality only 2 scene changes occur in the Manga (up until chapter 270), and it is separated by 4 full chapters that is 1 month later in real time.

It's not the length of the scene change that happened in this one episode that bothers me, or the way Naruto’s behavior was in it, its the fact that it has happened every episode previous to this one since the fight started, which is definitely not the case of the Manga. While I understand each time it was necessary to leave Naruto as is (in terms of behavior) because that’s how he was at this point and it would be misleading to show anything else. However, instead of using a scene change every episode just to eat up some air time, the anime team could have just took a 1-2 episode interval before showing a scene change to Kakashi and Naruto (considering they would both remain the same) just as the Manga took a 4 chapter interval so it didn’t get too annoying.

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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Oh, it's there alright. When Sasori releases the poison gas. That's why I say you should re-read the manga before making rants comparing the anime to the manga.
Well, that was a tasteless cheap shot, even for you. I explained that I honestly did not recall a flash back during the fight, and that I did not have the time at that moment to go check the Manga because it was very late. Do not pretend as if you never rely on your memory when you are short on time, I trust my memory very much however, sadly sometimes it will fail me when it comes to insignificant / unimportant details. None the less, I checked it now starting from chapter 263 (fight starts) to 270 (where the anime is now roughly), and you are right the first flash back takes place chapter 267 page 5 and while I was wrong when I stated I don’t remember a single flashback in the full fight. After looking at the previous chapters before the first flashback I was definitely not wrong about all the filler flash backs the Anime Team added to Sakura, since the beginning of the fight.

Also my post’s are far from simple minded rants, the Sakura example was definitely not a rant just something I used to back up my previous point, while it wasn’t completely right because of my failure to do research by checking the Manga due to lack of time. It definitely wasn’t completely wrong considering all the filler flash backs that were added, and all the things that were removed and changed to show zero development between NarutoxSakura, while at the same time providing some fan service by showing there is still the possibility of SakuraxSasuke (that you can’t argue against). Even a blind man can see that the Anime Team prefers NarutoxHinata over NarutoxSakura.
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Old 2007-08-11, 17:13   Link #71
wingdarkness
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This episode was great, Baa-chan got OWNED by a rock Lmao , and the Gai part of the clone fight nearly made me fall outta my chair it was so funny (Looked like two little gingerbread men fighting their a$$ess off rotfl)...As for me I actually liked the Naruto chase part for once because Naruto was telling Kakashi what I think most of us want to tell him, "Your the f**king legendary Copy-Ninja for God's sake, hurry your a$$ up and help me deal with this guy!!!" Naruto was basically telling him stop daydreaming and do some legendary white fang $hit instead of worrying about him...That I can respect, because Kakashi has been loosing points with me because he's supposedly the best ninja yet he's also the most passive guy on this damn show...

Now the meat of the episode which was Sakura vs. Sasori, again I was impressed with her...I liked how they really examined her preparation for a fight like this making it more believable...I like that she's doing some very surprising things yet still getting her butt kicked which doesn't nerf Sasori in the process IMO..If Sasori was just looking nerfed during this fight I would be pi$$ed, but he's not and Sakura is barely surviving yet still getting her licks in...Playing off the momentum of last week's ep this fight had me very entertained and Sakura's final attack was well played (Previous to this Sasori's iron-sand spike attack was good too)...I can only hope next episode really ends the fight because the mood is set to finish this one way or another; I'd be disappointed if they stretch this out past one more ep, but this is Nowruto...

Clone fights gave me the impression they are gonna end soon coinciding with the end of Sakura's fight, so maybe some Naruto vs. Deidera in 3 weeks?? O_o Anyways gave the ep an 8 and no I ain't ain't ducking my head in the crowd so you don't see who cast that vote...3 good eps in a row for me, quite the conundrum ...Good thing the manga doesn't exist to me and I can hate or enjoy an ep with no source material to consider unlike many of you unfortunate saps...
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Old 2007-08-11, 19:32   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
That being said I don't see how this representation is misleading, this behavior was the only thing Naruto had shown at this point, showing anything else would be misleading.
There is a fine line between acting impatient and acting crazy (you can consider same for being bad and being evil). You can understand the first, whereas the second may not be that well understood. Naruto acts close to the border in the manga, still within it, he is even though impatient, still able to calm down at some point, and it feels to happen much earlier in the manga. I don't know why you consider that as not misleading. Any kind of exaggeration that changes many viewer's reaction to a character's action from understandable level to unlike or even hate level, it becomes misleading. Yes, compared to the cases for which that expression is used, this one might look rather innocent, but stealing a penny is still stealing.
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Old 2007-08-11, 19:52   Link #73
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by 0TaKu0 View Post
Yes, I'm not stating that the representation of Naruto's behavior at this point is misleading (nor did I ever), in fact I took the liberty of typing the same thing again because, it seems my point was misunderstood again. "So my point being is not that, what Naruto is doing in the Anime did not happen but, it just didn’t happen this many times (a scene change every episode)".
Well, you said the anime team was showing Naruto as a "whiny bitch" who can't think for himself, And I was saying the manga doesn't show otherwise. I will admit they have added scenes with Naruto and Kakashi just like they are adding scenes with team Gai fighting. Neither is particularly well done, but I don't understand how showing more of Naruto in his frenzied state degrades him. You should be used to the unwritten rule that Naruto must appear in every episode of the anime by now.

Quote:
I have looked over the chapters since the start of the fight, the anime is roughly at chapter 270, the first scene change to Naruto and Kakashi takes place in chapter 266 (one chapter after the Sakura and Chiyo vs. Sasori fight starts), and the second scene change takes place in chapter 270 (where the anime is at right now)
Yes, but reading that you should also realize Naruto up until this point in the manga was acting the same as he is being shown in the anime.

Quote:
Well, that was a tasteless cheap shot, even for you. I explained that I honestly did not recall a flash back during the fight, None the less, I checked it now starting from chapter 263 (fight starts) to 270 (where the anime is now roughly), and you are right the first flash back takes place chapter 267 page 5
Thank you for noticing. I've really been working on increasing the level of tastelessness and cheapness in my posts.

But no, I wasn't trying to bruise your ego with that comment. I've had my mistakes pointed out to me plenty of times so I'm not trying to build myself up either. Nor do I care about NaruXSaku vs. NaruXHinata. I was trying to make a point that the anime doesn't always deviate from the manga as much as people think it does. And when you haven't read the manga in a long time, it is sometimes difficult to compare the two in detail. And although you haven't changed your opinion (and I didn't expect that) you've at least explained it better.

Quote:
Also my post’s are far from simple minded rants, the Sakura example was definitely not a rant just something I used to back up my previous point, while it wasn’t completely right because of my failure to do research by checking the Manga due to lack of time...

Even a blind man can see that the Anime Team prefers NarutoxHinata over NarutoxSakura.
No, your posts aren't simple minded. That's not what I meant by "rant". I just meant they are long and somewhat emotional. I don't really care about Naruto's relationships. Ultimately, the anime team has no say in who he'll eventually end up with.

But anyways, I guess I'm through cluttering up the boards with this topic. PM me if you still really want to discuss it
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Old 2007-08-11, 20:55   Link #74
0TaKu0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Well, you said the anime team was showing Naruto as a "whiny bitch" who can't think for himself, And I was saying the manga doesn't show otherwise.
Well this might be a matter of opinion (by now its pretty obvious that our opinions are on different polarity), but to be honest when I read the manga during the Sasori fight, and now that I re-read it, I still find it that the manga portrays Naruto as more calm and thoughtful, willing to cooperate, then the anime has. However I don’t think that really has anything to do with you, Hunter, or my self, it is just the way we perceive things (all differently). Maybe I see a difference because of how I am (as you said my post's are long and emotional), yes you are correct I am a very emotional person, but rather then emotional I would say passionate and strongly opinionated about my point of views and the things I believe in. (However I wont deny that I am not emotional, because I clearly am.)

In any case this is how i see it, its one thing if it was tail’s, I wouldn’t have a problem with constant scene changes to Naruto and Kakashi and showing Naruto at his worst (because of tails it is understandable) but this is not even tails man, we have seen Naruto act very human, calm, and, cooperative with eyes before in part II. Not only that but as a Manga reader I don’t have to remind you of how Naruto is with tails, so it was only reasonable for me to feel the way I do during this stage of Naruto's Kyubification (yes I realize that is not a word). So it basically comes down to what Hunter posted in terms of the cave, I guess in my mind when I read the Manga before all this was animated I felt that Naruto (with ONLY Kyubi eyes, not tails) was in control, co-operative, had made progression in terms of mentally and spiritually but, after seeing it like this its contradictory to me.

Quote:
Yes, but reading that you should also realize Naruto up until this point in the manga was acting the same as he is being shown in the anime.
I do realize it, why are you challenging me on this when you have seen me point out plenty of times that my point being is not that, what Naruto is doing in the Anime did not happen but, it just didn’t happen this many times (meaning a scene change every episode). The Manga only had 2 scene changes, chapter 266, and chapter 270, this means there was a timeline of 1 full month (real time) before we actually saw Naruto and Kakashi again after the 266 scene change. While in the anime this is not the case, the scene changes to Naruto and Kakashi were constant with every episode since the start of the fight, and in each episode it is a similar shot of Naruto and Kakashi, just differently edited.

I am complaining about the fact that the Anime did not follow the example of the Manga ( which used a interval of 4 chapters before a scene change back to Naruto and Kakashi, one month in real time) and use an interval of at least 1-2 episodes before changing scenes again to Naruto / Kakashi, because the constant use of this every episode is degrading Naruto's character because it makes him seem annoying (To me it is, I'm sure I’m not the only one who feels this way).

Quote:
but I don't understand how showing more of Naruto in his frenzied state degrades him. You should be used to the unwritten rule that Naruto must appear in every episode of the anime by now.
Are you serious? I am some what baffled by this comment. How can Naruto's character not be degraded when the anime team is repeatedly showing Naruto at his worst, no control, no maturity, not willing to cooperate. It's like video taping some one at their worst, and showing it to the whole world over and over again. However because this is a anime, it is easier to edit and mask the same thing over and over to give the illusion of variety but, the character acts the same (and yes I understand the character acts the same because, at this point this is how Naruto was acting in the manga).

However, that is not an excuse for the anime team to use the scene change method over and over again every episode just to eat up a few minutes of air time, because it is even worst. Rather then taping some one once in their worst and showing it to the whole world, it is like taping some one at their worst everyday at different situations and showing it to the whole world, that would destroy the way people view them. So how can you even say that showing more of this does not degrade his character?
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Old 2007-08-11, 23:50   Link #75
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Good thing the manga doesn't exist to me and I can hate or enjoy an ep with no source material to consider unlike many of you unfortunate saps...


What does the manga have to do with inconsistent art, janked animation, crappy music, horrible storytelling, and all the other problems plaguing shippuuden at the moment?
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Old 2007-08-12, 01:37   Link #76
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Originally Posted by ghstwrld View Post


What does the manga have to do with inconsistent art, janked animation, crappy music, horrible storytelling, and all the other problems plaguing shippuuden at the moment?
I think wingdarkness means that he/she isn't going to be let down as much as those who have read the manga and are expecting more out of the anime for certain parts.
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Old 2007-08-12, 01:55   Link #77
EnZimE
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The group who did FLCL and is currently doing Gurren Lagann did the Garaa vs Lee fight, Sasuke vs Orochimaru fight, and the Naruto vs Sasuke fight. They are busy on another anime to even think of coming back but hey Gurren Lagann ends soon.
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Old 2007-08-12, 07:13   Link #78
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Originally Posted by ghstwrld View Post


What does the manga have to do with inconsistent art, janked animation, crappy music, horrible storytelling, and all the other problems plaguing shippuuden at the moment?
I thought the music is quite good...anyway, I think the animation was poor at some points never the less I still think the storyline is quite good. We all tend to expect the episodes to progress a hell of a lot within 30/45mins...but I think in order to not get super filler arcs again, I think it's the only solution.

IF they do bring a filler arc after this one... I will be so pee'd off. In fact, after the first ep teaser, it wouldn't be fair! I would probably just give up on the anime and stick with the manga.

On the note of filler arcs...there is a very important mini-arc which they could be using as a filler...of sorts (which happened between Part1 and Part 2)...but I don't know why they decided not to show that. I think everyone was overly hyped to see it at the beginning of shippuden...but they decided not to show it.
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Old 2007-08-12, 19:10   Link #79
7thFonon
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This ep was so garbage. I couldn't stop laughing at the Gai fight. I actually went back and watched that one scene again, just because of that fight.
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Old 2007-08-13, 16:57   Link #80
Shinosan
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I didnt like this ep. The animation sucked and the storyline feels so dragged out.
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