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Old 2007-08-14, 16:33   Link #41
wingdarkness
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@avmoghe Dude you can scream $hit is irrelevant in caps until your lung collapses, doesn't mean I find it to be some dismissive content...Secondly every comparison you make to Churchill, Bin Laden, or random leaders to make your math problem work is asinine at best...You clearly have no idea of context and how it differs depending on the story...Character A doing something in a show with a different contextual make-up doesn't equal Character B doing the same thing in a different work (ofcourse unless you just ignore symbolism, expressionism, contextual value--You know $hit you don't watch Gundam for)...In the political realm Turn A gundam was far less strict than the texture of the political make-up in something like SEED and GSD...Each Gundam series is different in it's motivations and Turn A was more of a romanticizing view at a "coming of age story" with the backdrop of closing the Gundam lore...You probably think something like SEED or GSD is romantic because of fanservicey coupling things rather than the real contextual value it has in this series...

You proudly stand by the statement that Gundam is a stoopid toyline show that you don't watch for plot or characters (Which is sheer ignorance to many) but if that's your base thought concerning Gundam then why the hell would the switch-a-roo even get to you this much? It's just a stoopid toy show right? Who cares if Dianna defects like Sideways from the TRANSFORMERS? Surely not you who nearly had an aneurysm because the action wasn't as l33t as you expected...

If you think Turn A is $hit sobeit, but I refuse to suppress my natural intellect to engage you much further in a debate where your base-opinion is that of not even acknowledging Gundam as something that's even suppose to have a decent plot or characterization (Your ground-zero is sad IMHO)...Sorry man, but honestly most of your arguments simply fail to me...Your understanding of context is really bad, so please don't ever watch Turn A again, not with those eyes because your not watching a fresh new series, you're watching your misplaced expectations turn to crap...
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Old 2007-08-14, 16:48   Link #42
Terrestrial Dream
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Not really. While the pre-war politicians misread their counterparts, they had relatively good reasons for what they did.


Why do you find this surprising? As I noted above, Destiny is literally the second-most popular Gundam shows in the last twenty years: above Victory, G Gundam, Wing, Gundam X, and Turn A. Obviously, not everyone is going to prefer it over them, but there should be a fair number of people that do so. Besides, avmoghe's list is probably less weird than mine (admittedly, I'm not really a Gundam fan):

My favorites:
1. Victory - Lots of great moments and lots of bizzare/goofy moments. Easily the most enjoyment I had watching Gundam.
2. Turn A - Superb setting and good character interaction. The ending was a little weak, but it doesn't really detract from the whole.
3. Seed - Plenty of compelling drama marred by some bad writing. I found the characters very appealing.
4. Destiny - Flawed; but it still presented the most interesting ideas in Gundam. It made me think the most, and I like that.

Enjoyable:
5. Mobile Suit Gundam - A solid show; it has one of the best depictions of war in Gundam.
6. Gundam X - I liked the characters, but it doesn't really live up to its setting.
7. Zeta Gundam - A pretty decent show, but it's sort of dragged down by the ending and some of the directorial choices.
8. Gundam Wing - I thought that it was pretty bad, but I still liked it.

Not enjoyable:
9. ZZ Gundam - I didn't mind the beginning, but I hated the ending.
10. G Gundam - A pretty good show, but none of the characters worked for me.

I might as well add the shorter works:
1. 08th MS Team - Good atmosphere overall. The Shattering Mountain episodes were also some of the best episodes in Gundam. I even liked the last episode.
2. 0080 - A very interesting character piece. I especially liked the portrayal of the kids' reactions to the war.
3. Endless Waltz - Better than Wing. Dorothy and her eyebrows make the movie version better than the OVAs.
4. 0083 - Lots of eyecandy, but I don't think it has as much substance as it could have had. Nina Purpleton is my least favorite Gundam character.
5. Char's Counterattack - I didn't buy the ending at all.
Even though they did had reason but imo it was really dumb for them to just let Hitler get Austria and let him take Czech and let him build back German military. Problem with those politician before ww2 they had no back bone and Hitler actually wrote a book that tells what he was going to do and they still didn't do anything about it. So I would say leader in CCA are quite dumb as them those politician back then. Well for Destiny it just disappoint me so much it was great in the beginning but later on it just got really bad and if felt really rushed and with 4 recap episode there shouldn't be any excuse how Destiny turned out. I could still understand why you liked Destiny there were some interesting issue that were dealt within the show. But I still can't believe that someone would rank Destiny over other Gundam.
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Old 2007-08-14, 16:54   Link #43
avmoghe
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You probably think something like SEED or GSD is romantic because of fanservicey coupling things rather than the real contextual value it has in this series...
Part of Seed is indeed fan service and romance... what makes me like Seed so much is the portrayal of hate based on immutable human characteristics. Make no mistake... genetic engineering is going to be upon us within the next fifty years..

I'll make no claims about Destiny.. since I've never said its among my favorites...

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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
If you think Turn A is $hit sobeit, but I refuse to suppress my natural intellect to engage you much further in a debate where your base-opinion is that of not even acknowledging Gundam as something that's even suppose to have a decent plot or characterization (Your ground-zero is sad IMHO)...Sorry man, but honestly most of your arguments simply fail to me...Your understanding of context is really bad, so please don't ever watch Turn A again, not with those eyes because your not watching a fresh new series, you're watching your misplaced expectations turn to crap...
Rest assured I will never watch Turn A again.....I'm not sure what put the idea into your head that I may even consider doing this (given my tone in this thread).

We are simply talking on different levels... I expect my shows to make sense in a real and concrete way, while you fawn over the alleged symbolism and artistic expressionism. Either way, I suppose you should be able to understand why I absolutely love the Wire.... incredibly complex plotting, no "layers" of character that I must appreciate in order to understand the tale...etc..

Either way, its been fun
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Old 2007-08-14, 17:00   Link #44
Terrestrial Dream
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Originally Posted by avmoghe View Post
To you I pose the same question..... show me what in Gundam Seed compares to the utter stupidity of a leader handing over her power to an any for absolutely no freaking reason (Yes, I know the bullcrap reason was that she wanted to live with earth race.. blah blah blah.. its still stupid)

Kihel / Dianna switch is NOT a plothole.... it is stupidity of the highest order... I think this may even rival episode 39 of Monster (or some episode thereabouts).

I'm no Gundam fan (in terms of being a fanboy of the franchise). I've seen essentially everything the franchise has to offer... (no I will not watch G Gundam) I like Seed and the MSG movies as I've mentioned. Almost every other Gundam show was mediocre IMO.... Yes, I ranked Destiny above 2-3 other Gundam shows....
You want to know? how about Lacus giving Kira Freedom, she gave one of the most top secret military weapon that could endanger Plant to somebody she barely know now that is dumber then Kihel and Dianna switching. Now there also many dumb thing in Seed but wingdarkness mentioned most of them so I don't really have to.
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Old 2007-08-14, 17:05   Link #45
avmoghe
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You want to know? how about Lacus giving Kira Freedom, she gave one of the most top secret military weapon that could endanger Plant to somebody she barely know now that is dumber then Kihel and Dianna switching. Now there also many dumb thing in Seed but wingdarkness mentioned most of them so I don't really have to.
Joking right? She spent several days herself with Kira while he was healing... (not to mention she has knowledge of his personality from the people who rescued him from Strike). Finally she gave him *a COORDINATOR* one Gundam (knowing fully well that they also have Justice as a backup). This does not compare to just giving up your entire military and political leadership to a possible enemy.....

Now if you had Azrael giving up command of Earth forces to Kira for no reason... then you might have a point...Thankfully no series aside from Turn A Gundam has tried to pull this off...
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Old 2007-08-14, 20:51   Link #46
Kittie Rose
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Laura Rolla.

Though SEED is under-rated. It gets the most dumbass criticisms. It's a great show.
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Old 2007-08-14, 21:10   Link #47
4Tran
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Originally Posted by hyperlion
Even though they did had reason but imo it was really dumb for them to just let Hitler get Austria and let him take Czech and let him build back German military. Problem with those politician before ww2 they had no back bone and Hitler actually wrote a book that tells what he was going to do and they still didn't do anything about it.
They did know about Mein Kampf; and they drew three conclusions about Germany's situation:

1. Germany wasn't ready for an all-out war in 1939. Hence giving up on Czechoslovakia in 1938 would preserve the peace until at least 1942-1943.

2. In Mein Kampf, Hitler was mostly talking about a war with the Soviet Union. Britain and France actually hoped that they could form an anti-Communist alliance with him at some point in the future.

3. As long as Germany's main enemy was the Soviet Union, they wouldn't dare try to annex any of Poland's territory.

The Germans themselves didn't think that they'd be ready for war until 1942. The reason they started the war in 1939 was because they miscalculated the Allies' resolve. The Soviet Union was fully aware of Mein Kampf, and they had been trying to form an anti-German alliance with Britain and France for years. Eventually, their refusal led Stalin to believe that they were prodding Germany into attacking him, hence leading to his signing the Non-Aggression Pact with Germany. What was once the situation in 1938 had changed a great deal by August of 1939.

Moreover, you have to look at the alternatives available to Britain and France - Britain's army was small and France's lack of manpower meant that they were basically incapable of offensive operations into Germany. If they did fight a war over Czechoslovakia, they stood to lose a lot while (apparently) gaining very little. The history behind the popular view of these events is much more complex than most people believe, and I think Chamberlain got a much worse rap than he truly deserved.

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Originally Posted by hyperlion
So I would say leader in CCA are quite dumb as them those politician back then.
Nope. They're not even in the same category.

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Originally Posted by hyperlion
Well for Destiny it just disappoint me so much it was great in the beginning but later on it just got really bad and if felt really rushed and with 4 recap episode there shouldn't be any excuse how Destiny turned out. I could still understand why you liked Destiny there were some interesting issue that were dealt within the show. But I still can't believe that someone would rank Destiny over other Gundam.
Why not? For example, I didn't like the early episodes that much, and I felt that the middle section was fairly weak. I think that the best parts took place after Stellar died (including the last dozen episodes). It boils down to different tastes and all.

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Originally Posted by wingdarkness
Sorry to lump you in there, you and he seem to have a similiar viewing style//defensive argument is all...Oh and I am kinda good at it ^^...
I can't speak for anyone else, but you're not even close when you presume things about me. I suspect that the same is true for avmoghe as well. Besides, most people are quite willing to tell you exactly why they like or dislike a show; you don't have to make anything up on their behalf.
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Old 2007-08-14, 21:26   Link #48
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Though SEED is under-rated. It gets the most dumbass criticisms. It's a great show.
Yeah really. I though Gundam Seed was a great show actually. I enjoyed everything from the designs, characters, music, and the storyline. I enjoyed it all from episode one all the way to fifty . . .

Everyone has different tastes and expectations when it comes to Gundam. As for me I just take it easy. I sit back enjoy the show (whether it be Gundam Seed or one of the older shows like the MS 08th team) and take the show for what it is. Instead of criticizing all the faults or unrealsitic things that happen in a series I just enjoy it.
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Old 2007-08-15, 00:44   Link #49
Terrestrial Dream
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Joking right? She spent several days herself with Kira while he was healing... (not to mention she has knowledge of his personality from the people who rescued him from Strike). Finally she gave him *a COORDINATOR* one Gundam (knowing fully well that they also have Justice as a backup). This does not compare to just giving up your entire military and political leadership to a possible enemy.....

Now if you had Azrael giving up command of Earth forces to Kira for no reason... then you might have a point...Thankfully no series aside from Turn A Gundam has tried to pull this off...
She gave a N-jammer canceller to a freaking civilian. And he was going right into the battle in Alaska, there could have been many uncertain variable if he had joined that fight, without Cyclops System who knew what might have happened with Kira. Would you give a civilian an a nuke loaded plane just because you thought he was good and he wouldn't use it? To me giving a civilian one of the most dangerous technology without any control from anybody is really dumb.
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
They did know about Mein Kampf; and they drew three conclusions about Germany's situation:

1. Germany wasn't ready for an all-out war in 1939. Hence giving up on Czechoslovakia in 1938 would preserve the peace until at least 1942-1943.

2. In Mein Kampf, Hitler was mostly talking about a war with the Soviet Union. Britain and France actually hoped that they could form an anti-Communist alliance with him at some point in the future.

3. As long as Germany's main enemy was the Soviet Union, they wouldn't dare try to annex any of Poland's territory.

The Germans themselves didn't think that they'd be ready for war until 1942. The reason they started the war in 1939 was because they miscalculated the Allies' resolve. The Soviet Union was fully aware of Mein Kampf, and they had been trying to form an anti-German alliance with Britain and France for years. Eventually, their refusal led Stalin to believe that they were prodding Germany into attacking him, hence leading to his signing the Non-Aggression Pact with Germany. What was once the situation in 1938 had changed a great deal by August of 1939.

Moreover, you have to look at the alternatives available to Britain and France - Britain's army was small and France's lack of manpower meant that they were basically incapable of offensive operations into Germany. If they did fight a war over Czechoslovakia, they stood to lose a lot while (apparently) gaining very little. The history behind the popular view of these events is much more complex than most people believe, and I think Chamberlain got a much worse rap than he truly deserved.


Nope. They're not even in the same category.
I still think that England letting German build back military was dumb, I know that Hitler want to share empire with England but still in my opinion England let them have too much military power. And the fact that England and France signed treaty with Poland and yet they knew that Hitler wanted Poland and they still let him have powerful military. You seem to be more knowledgeable in history then me so I don't think that I could win this argument .
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Old 2007-08-15, 01:19   Link #50
avmoghe
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She gave a N-jammer canceller to a freaking civilian. And he was going right into the battle in Alaska, there could have been many uncertain variable if he had joined that fight, without Cyclops System who knew what might have happened with Kira. Would you give a civilian an a nuke loaded plane just because you thought he was good and he wouldn't use it? To me giving a civilian one of the most dangerous technology without any control from anybody is really dumb.
Err.. he was a civilian who had repeatedly saved the Archangel repeatedly.. he knew how to handle Gundams.. and he was a coordinator. If you're claiming Kira is a normal civilian by Episode 35 of Seed, you're absolutely wrong. He was not an unknown unlike Kihel....was to Dianna. Lacus spent several days with him while he recovered and so did the reverend Malchio. Kira did NOT have control of Plant's entire military.. he had control of ONE gundam (albeit powerful)...

What you have is two very different situations..

In situation A, you have Lacus and the Reverend spending several days with someone talking together about what Kira will do. They sympathize with his situation, befriend him, and let him stay at Lacus place until he has fully recovered. They also know that this fellow is a coordinator who has repeatedly fought in battles, is a technical wiz, and is tired of the war... and is also Athrun Zara's childhood friend. Upon this, he is given one single Gundam to do what he can to stop the war....

In situation B, you have the queen of the Moon abandoning her people to a girl who is virtually unknown. This girl is nothing more than a secretary from the ENEMY side. with no demonstrated ability to lead people, inspire people, or know how to run a war. Kihel and Dianna spoke together ONCE in private, and in those few minutes they automatically decide to switch places and hand over the fate of the moon's army to Kihel...

Situation A is giving one single powerful gundam to a known technical wiz who has demonstrated his ability to handle Gundams repeatedly. Situation B is giving up the command of the entire military in wartime to an girl with unknown loyalties with absolutely no demonstrated knowledge of leadership, war, or politics....

Lacus is smart enough to give one single gundam to a guy she (and her fiance) know.... have interacted with for multiple days... AND has demonstrated knowledge of Gundam technology and piloting ability....

Dianna is dumb enough to give over the fate of her entire race to an unknown secretary from the Enemy race after speaking to her once and having no demonstrated abilities of leadership...

Sorry, these do not compare in stupidity... As I said, unless you have something like Azreal or Zara completely handing over military authority in wartime to an unknown enemy, you're not going to be able to make this argument....
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Old 2007-08-15, 04:10   Link #51
flobo
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Diana never considered people of earth as "enemy".
It is mostly earth people that were opposed to moonrace in the beginning (even if some moonrace made a few mistakes too).
When the switch occured, there weren't really at war yet, and dianna just wanted to have some fun, to know the people of earth, i dont think it was suposed to last very long.
Then it turned out that Keil and Dianna both made better in their new role than in their formers, so they stayed like that.
IMO, CE did much worse, with people having been in all the possible factions several times .
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Old 2007-08-15, 09:07   Link #52
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avmoghe
Situation B is giving up the command of the entire military in wartime to an girl with unknown loyalties with absolutely no demonstrated knowledge of leadership, war, or politics....
In a lot of ways, Dianna was almost completely powerless. She never wanted a war in the first place; it was mostly caused by the independent actions of Dianna Counter's troops, and by Guin Lineford's stupidity. Even though Dianna was technically the most powerful leader of the most powerful nation, given the lack of loyalty of her troops, nothing she would have much impact on the conflict. And of course, like with all "the Prince and the Pauper" type stories, the switch was supposed to be only for a couple of days.

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I still think that England letting German build back military was dumb, I know that Hitler want to share empire with England but still in my opinion England let them have too much military power.
Britain was a democracy; and the British people rather liked what the Nazis did to apparently turn its economy around. British public opinion of Germany didn't really change to hostility until the Anschluss in 1938. Besides, the German rearmament happened during the Great Depression - and the Allies didn't have a whole lot of options in dealing with Germany to begin with. And of course, everyone thought of a resurgent Germany as a useful counter to the greater threat that the Soviet Union and Communism imposed.

The situation wasn't all that different from how the U.S. doesn't like China's armament program - they can't really do all that much about it.
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Old 2007-08-15, 11:11   Link #53
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Originally Posted by avmoghe View Post
Lacus is smart enough to give one single gundam to a guy she (and her fiance) know.... have interacted with for multiple days... AND has demonstrated knowledge of Gundam technology and piloting ability....
Which directly contribute to the fall of his dad's power, and subsequently cost his life. That's really wise.

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In situation B, you have the queen of the Moon abandoning her people to a girl who is virtually unknown. This girl is nothing more than a secretary from the ENEMY side .
So... when great wise Lacus-sama gave the mech to Kira, aren't he's still considered as from the enemy side by Zaft? Even worse, he's the ace pilot from the enemy side.


BTW, I enjoy both Seed & Turn A. Both have pros & cons.
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Old 2007-08-15, 11:55   Link #54
4Tran
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Which directly contribute to the fall of his dad's power, and subsequently cost his life. That's really wise.
Sigel Clyne and his supporters had already decided to rebel against Patrick Zala, and the theft of Freedom was just their first blow. And in fact, they had already made quite a bit of preparations beforehand. There's no real reason to assume that Lacus was acting on her own initiative.

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So... when great wise Lacus-sama gave the mech to Kira, aren't he's still considered as from the enemy side by Zaft? Even worse, he's the ace pilot from the enemy side.
Define "enemy". ZAFT was no more Sigel Clyne's friend than Orb was. And Kira's views were much more in accord with his own than just about anyone else's was.
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Old 2007-08-15, 19:15   Link #55
avmoghe
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In a lot of ways, Dianna was almost completely powerless. She never wanted a war in the first place; it was mostly caused by the independent actions of Dianna Counter's troops, and by Guin Lineford's stupidity. Even though Dianna was technically the most powerful leader of the most powerful nation, given the lack of loyalty of her troops, nothing she would have much impact on the conflict. And of course, like with all "the Prince and the Pauper" type stories, the switch was supposed to be only for a couple of days.
No doubt she never wanted a war... but the fact is that a war had started and the moonrace needed someone capable to talk with Guin. Phil, Poe, Miran, and the other betrayals came much later in the show, while the switch happened around the first ten episodes or so.. (If Dianna knew she was about to be betrayed, all the more reason for her not to put Kihel in that situation). She was still in charge of negotiating with other politicians and addressing the moonrace as its protector...(Let's not forget she was still the one who announce on giving up the idea of establishing a moonrace nation without negotiating). Consider the absolute moral degradation and havoc Kihel could have caused if she wanted. Furthermore, consider the risk of what happens if Kihel turns out to be an "normal" Earthrace.. and supplies them with crucial wartime intelligence. Nope.. it was still too huge of a risk at an absolutely critical moment in the war. Kihel put the lives of the moorace people she loved and also Kihels in order to go off and explore living on Earth...

Thank you for addressing the issues brought up by daibomui..

daibomui: 4Tran has addressed the issues you've brought up more than sufficiently.
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Old 2007-08-15, 21:54   Link #56
4Tran
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Originally Posted by avmoghe
No doubt she never wanted a war... but the fact is that a war had started and the moonrace needed someone capable to talk with Guin. Phil, Poe, Miran, and the other betrayals came much later in the show, while the switch happened around the first ten episodes or so..
At that point in the story, there wasn't really any war at all. Dianna would continually order her forces to not attack the Inglessian people, and they'd constantly find ways to circumvent that order. And the Dianna Counter was so much superior to anything the Militia had except for Turn A, that the conflict stayed strictly low-key. The war, such as it was, didn't really start up until the Militia foolishly launched their attack, after the switch. If there had been a war, there'd be no way for Dianna and Kihel to meet as they did.

And when I spoke of "lack of loyalty", I don't mean betrayal at all. Most of Dianna's people and troops seemed to genuinely like her, but they displayed almost no respect for her authority (this seems to be surprisingly common in Tomino shows). Dianna, and Kihel in her place, had very little capability of changing things for either good or ill. It's only natural that such an environment ended up stifling her.

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Originally Posted by avmoghe
Furthermore, consider the risk of what happens if Kihel turns out to be an "normal" Earthrace.. and supplies them with crucial wartime intelligence. Nope.. it was still too huge of a risk at an absolutely critical moment in the war.
In normal circumstances, it could have been disasterous. However, the situation in Turn A was anything but normal. First, the Dianna Counter easily swept aside the Militia. In fact, they were so much stronger that no amount of intelligence would have made any difference. Second, there really wasn't any intelligence to gather - troop numbers, deployment, intentions and capabilities; Inglessa already knew about all of that. The only things of interest that Kihel could have passed on were that the Dianna Counter were strictly amateurs, and that Dianna herself had almost no real power. And both points should have been obvious to any astute observer. Finally, who could Kihel have told any of this information to? Guin Lineford was an idiot, and no one else had the ability to do anything useful with any important information (assuming that any existed) she gathered.

I don't think that any of this would have amounted to much if they had made the switch back after a couple of days.
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Old 2007-08-16, 14:18   Link #57
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I agree with the previous poster. Turn A was crap. The story was ridiculous and some of it didnt make any sesne, like the black history thing. And the simple fact that it "ranks high" with SEED automatically tells me its garbage. SEED was a horrible series and the only kind of people who like it are people who never saw the original series or any of the UC universe. UC is REAL Gundam, not the garbage they spit out today. The only reason SEED ranks so high is because it appeals to kids these days, kids who never saw a REAL Gundam series. Then again, most kids dont appreciate the original series.

Also, dont steryotype Gundam as a "toy commercial". Thats an idiotic statement. Ill agree that SEED was, just because it was the worst thing since G Gundam. But Gundam was a revolutionary anime. If it wasnt for Gundam we'd still be stuck with the super robot crap. Gundam set the standard mech anime, and to down play it and call it a "toy commercial" is insane. Things like that are the reason that Gundam (sadly) will probably never be popular in America again. The new animu fans dont appreciate Gundam for what it is and dont pay any attention to the story.
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Old 2007-08-16, 15:49   Link #58
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu
Turn A was crap. The story was ridiculous and some of it didnt make any sesne, like the black history thing.
The same charge can be applied to a great many Gundam shows; does that mean that they're all crap?

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Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu
And the simple fact that it "ranks high" with SEED automatically tells me its garbage.
So the fact that people have a high opinion of Turn A automatically means that it's garbage? One would imagine that the very opposite is more likely to be true.

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Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu
SEED was a horrible series and the only kind of people who like it are people who never saw the original series or any of the UC universe. UC is REAL Gundam, not the garbage they spit out today. The only reason SEED ranks so high is because it appeals to kids these days, kids who never saw a REAL Gundam series.
Why would you make that kind of assumption? After all, you couldn't possibly have talked to everyone who likes Seed, and asked their opinions on other Gundam shows. And what's a "REAL" Gundam show, and who gets to arbitrate whether one is "REAL" or not?

Besides, what bearing does the quality of Seed have on the quality of Turn A? While people may like both, they tend to do so for very different reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu
Also, dont steryotype Gundam as a "toy commercial".
That's sort of what they were. Mobile Suit Gundam was designed to promote a series of toys (apparently, Bandai wasn't part of the deal), and it was dropped largely because those toys didn't sell very well. However, since quality and financial interest are different things, that doesn't mean that it can't be any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu
But Gundam was a revolutionary anime. If it wasnt for Gundam we'd still be stuck with the super robot crap. Gundam set the standard mech anime, and to down play it and call it a "toy commercial" is insane.
Arguably, Mobile Suit Gundam isn't really all that far removed from its Super Robot predecessors. While it did innovate the genre, it's up to other shows like Patlabor, Macross and VOTOMS to give it a sense of realism. Even today, many shows use Mobile Suit Gundam as a baseline, which sadly means that the mecha genre is a lot less realistic and less interesting than it could be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu
Things like that are the reason that Gundam (sadly) will probably never be popular in America again.
Mobile Suit Gundam will never be all that popular in North America is because it's almost thirty years old; and it looks every bit that old. All of it's other qualities are almost irrelevant compared to that. If there had been any sense of nostalgia attached to Mobile Suit Gundam (as there is with Robotech, or Battle of the Planets), then there'd still be a chance, but there isn't.

Heck, you're not exactly likely to go out and buy a DVD set of something like Soap, are you?
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2007-08-16 at 18:15.
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Old 2007-08-16, 16:12   Link #59
wingdarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu
I agree with the previous poster. Turn A was crap. The story was ridiculous and some of it didnt make any sesne, like the black history thing. And the simple fact that it "ranks high" with SEED automatically tells me its garbage. SEED was a horrible series and the only kind of people who like it are people who never saw the original series or any of the UC universe. UC is REAL Gundam, not the garbage they spit out today. The only reason SEED ranks so high is because it appeals to kids these days, kids who never saw a REAL Gundam series. Then again, most kids dont appreciate the original series.
Did your big-brain ever get around to realizing that the people who polled SEED #1 aren't the same as those that polled Turn-A second?? To think the exact same fanbase that ranked SEED #1, ranked Turn A #2 is a slight error in over-boast...UC blood-loyalist are far more in the Turn A style of thinking than the SEED style...Tomino, who created UC, made TURN-A BTW as a means to conclude the Gundam timeline...Your lack of putting 2 and 2 together on this makes me speculate the trueness of your UC chest-pounding...I've talked to many UC lovers who consider Turn-A unofficially UC anyways...

Quote:
Also, dont steryotype Gundam as a "toy commercial". Thats an idiotic statement. Ill agree that SEED was, just because it was the worst thing since G Gundam. But Gundam was a revolutionary anime. If it wasnt for Gundam we'd still be stuck with the super robot crap. Gundam set the standard mech anime, and to down play it and call it a "toy commercial" is insane.
Now that gets you a bit back on track, but don't di$$ us who love Turn-A and love UC Gundam as a revolutionary genre...You're totally offbase thinking we ranked Turn A #2 as some combination with SEED as oppose to trying to compete with the newer Gundam viewers who simply watched SEED first; Many in this forum simply have (Honestly though I can't hate on someone who only saw the SEED universe and doesn't have more source material to understand where people like you and//or me are coming from, I just try to encourage them to watch the older stuff)...
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Old 2007-08-16, 18:32   Link #60
dodgethis_sg
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rii_Mashuu View Post
If it wasnt for Gundam we'd still be stuck with the super robot crap.
If there wasn't any 'super robot crap', there wouldn't be mecha in the first place, nor would Tomino have created Gundam.

Last edited by dodgethis_sg; 2007-08-16 at 20:37.
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