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Old 2009-01-21, 19:44   Link #81
tanqexe
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Gym was an antagonist in that he was a character foil to Loran - and in turn, Turn X was a foil to Turn A.

Gym wanted a war against Earth. Philosophically, he believed that conflict drives humanity, and humanity can never shed itself of its violent instincts.

Loran believed in peace, cooperation, and prosperity. He saw no difference between Moon Race and people of Earth. He believed in the human capacity for good, and that the future was for a humanity at peace.

Turn X was a machine bred for all-out war, and was used as such. It could separate into remote bits, had a devastating Shining Finger ability, and had a rack for weapons in the back of the torso.

In a way, Turn A was as much a character as the humans. Turn A was a weapon of war that resulted in the Black History. Yet after committing this great sin, thousands of years later in the hands of Loran it became a symbol for peace. Loran never sought to kill people, only using Turn A for defense and hell, even doing menial labor (picking up a cow? lol). In a sense, much like Casshern in Casshern Sins, Turn A "sought" redemption through Loran, and achieved it by defeating Gym and the Turn X.
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Old 2009-01-21, 22:34   Link #82
Kenshin3
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saw EP 1 and was disapointed, was gonna continue, but based on your report, I won't bother.
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Old 2009-01-21, 22:59   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenshin3 View Post
saw EP 1 and was disapointed, was gonna continue, but based on your report, I won't bother.
Would you like to give more of a reason than that. I have also watched Turn A, and found it to be a solid show. Memories a little fuzzy on the details, was a long time ago, but I remember that most of the elements were there.
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Old 2009-01-21, 23:30   Link #84
tanqexe
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Goodness, it used to be that people would watch a show 5 eps in before giving up, now only 1?

To each their own.
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Old 2009-01-21, 23:59   Link #85
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He's an example of the clueless people.

He didn't read the rest of the thread at all, this is what I fear of bumping of such ranting threads.

Plus the member name and avatar combo just tells us what kind of anime watcher he is.
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Old 2009-01-22, 00:04   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellbore View Post
Would you like to give more of a reason than that. I have also watched Turn A, and found it to be a solid show. Memories a little fuzzy on the details, was a long time ago, but I remember that most of the elements were there.
Do not waste your time. People like those won't bother to listen.

Nowaday, one anime must have God's blessing to be able to please everyone.
....Or not, people will still complain because it gets God's blessing.
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Old 2009-01-22, 00:07   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Do not waste your time. People like those won't bother to listen.

Nowaday, one anime must have God's blessing to be able to please everyone.
....Or not, people will still complain because it gets God's blessing.
Its because their souls are still bound by the Earth's gravity.

They did not leave the gravity well early enough, we left and stayed in space for a good amount of time and have thus had a clearer view of things.
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Old 2009-01-22, 00:10   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenshin3 View Post
saw EP 1 and was disapointed, was gonna continue, but based on your report, I won't bother.
Please don't watch...One of the greatest anime-series ever doesn't need your eyes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanqexe
Turn X was a machine bred for all-out war, and was used as such. It could separate into remote bits, had a devastating Shining Finger ability, and had a rack for weapons in the back of the torso.
The greatness of TURN-X is that it was meant to be the final antagonist suit in Gundam history...In turn Tomino's genius here just shines sunspots...To create a suit that was in-effect a GIANT BIT (Playing off of almost every suit he ever conceptualized) is what makes it such an epic suit...I mean that $hit damn near brings a tear to my eyes when I think about the meaning behind the suit itself...It's beyond words...
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Old 2009-01-22, 00:12   Link #89
tanqexe
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Well to offset all that, I'll just have to say that, after Tomino got over his depression, he created a tremendous masterpiece with a feeling surpassing any of his previous work. Turn-A is so simple yet so heartfelt and wholesome. It is at once an homage to the franchise and a parody at the same time. After the tragic events of MSG, Z, ZZ, CCA, F91, and Victory, Tomino came back and delivered a vision of Gundam as an oxymoronic mover of peace rather than war, as Gundam has been depicted in previous incarnations. There is an earthen spirituality in the show, punctuated by an almost retro-70's/80's character design/color palette, and further polished through the moving scores from Yoko Kanno's brilliant mind.

If you are the type who's ADD and want explosions, fancy poses, poorly crafted melodrama and everything that's been wrong with modern dime-a-dozen mecha shows today, then this show is NOT for you.

For the patient ones who can see the big picture of things and can appreciate how far the concept of "Gundam" has come along and evolved in Tomino's mind, then watch this show.
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Old 2009-01-22, 10:00   Link #90
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Originally Posted by tanqexe View Post
That's because Fukuda was a blatant panderer and his direction was overtly shallow. His direction was a mess, just look at Destiny.

Tomino's direction is very mature and is more novel-like in terms of pacing and approach, having had three decades under his belt to get over the "wow kids with flashy poses, flashy recycled animations, and boobs" formula.
Let's not get carried away here. While Tomino is certainly quite a bit better than Fukuda in certain areas of direction, it's not as if he's some sort of sterling example of this job. In fact, a lot of his direction is outright terrible; especially for his older works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Why can't people just give it a break, and not expect action action action. We get this from a lot of people when there's an episode of Gundam 00 with no action.
Conversely, I greatly preferred the non-action parts of Turn A to the action parts - I only wished that the second half had more of the former.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenshin3 View Post
saw EP 1 and was disapointed, was gonna continue, but based on your report, I won't bother.
It's worth pointing out that the first couple of episodes are markedly different than the rest of the show. They are there mostly to provide exposition, so there's no real place to put in mecha action. There is lots more later on in the series, and some of the choreography can be quite creative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
He didn't read the rest of the thread at all, this is what I fear of bumping of such ranting threads.

Plus the member name and avatar combo just tells us what kind of anime watcher he is.
Please don't go there. There's no need to make generalizations based on such abstract indicators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanqexe View Post
Well to offset all that, I'll just have to say that, after Tomino got over his depression, he created a tremendous masterpiece with a feeling surpassing any of his previous work. Turn-A is so simple yet so heartfelt and wholesome. It is at once an homage to the franchise and a parody at the same time. After the tragic events of MSG, Z, ZZ, CCA, F91, and Victory, Tomino came back and delivered a vision of Gundam as an oxymoronic mover of peace rather than war, as Gundam has been depicted in previous incarnations. There is an earthen spirituality in the show, punctuated by an almost retro-70's/80's character design/color palette, and further polished through the moving scores from Yoko Kanno's brilliant mind.

If you are the type who's ADD and want explosions, fancy poses, poorly crafted melodrama and everything that's been wrong with modern dime-a-dozen mecha shows today, then this show is NOT for you.

For the patient ones who can see the big picture of things and can appreciate how far the concept of "Gundam" has come along and evolved in Tomino's mind, then watch this show.
There's a certain sense of truth to this. The characterizations and the way the atmosphere is put together, and the overall quality of the world-building is perhaps the best of any Gundam shows. I'm not sure if this is carried over as well for the grand ideas that Tomino put in though. The Alpha-Omeganess of the Moonlight Butterfly never really worked for me, and the idea of coalescing all of the Gundam shows into this one seemed ludicrous. Luckily, both of these points can be glossed over without detracting from Turn A Gundam's other qualities.
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Old 2009-01-22, 12:28   Link #91
Kenshin3
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no gundam in ep 1 = fail.

I can't think of a series in gundam where the first ep did not contain a gundam..

and I stopped because A) didn't catch me at all, B) the testimony here seemed solid...

however...I will try to check out after ep 5
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Old 2009-01-22, 12:53   Link #92
randus
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Well, I certainly enjoyed Turn A. I just watched it like earlier this month also.
Then again, I only starting watching after reading some interesting tidbits about Turn A and that my sister was nagging me to "get" it. So, then I got it through a certain means(you should know).

The story was interesting. If I could had gotten all the episodes once, I might had watched it until the end non-stop(with toilet breaks and sleep in-between =P). The pacing was good and the developments were interesting.
I certainly liked the art style used for the story. Very, very nice. Even my sister liked it. It felt nicer, in fact I liked it more than SEED's. This is because I felt it had feeling of finer detail in the drawings even though it was made in 1999.

Well, I liked to say more, but it'll be just some random babble that'd be a waste of space. XP
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Old 2009-01-22, 12:59   Link #93
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Originally Posted by Kenshin3 View Post
no gundam in ep 1 = fail.

I can't think of a series in gundam where the first ep did not contain a gundam..

and I stopped because A) didn't catch me at all, B) the testimony here seemed solid...

however...I will try to check out after ep 5
Do you know Tomino waited 20 years so that he could write a Gundam story that did not need to show a Gundam in episode 1? And you didn't give him a chance. Oh, yea, because you don't know. Wait, do you know who Tomino is?

The reason why Gundam always had Gundam in episode 1 is because of damned merchandise companies pressing on his directives, insisting they must have a Gundam in episode 1 to help push model sales. Only until 19 years later after he created the first Gundam, was he given this chance to write a story any way he wanted.

He was always frustrated with the merchandise companies telling him what to do and what not to do, he couldn't write a Gundam that was true to what he always wanted to write. But not Turn A, its a story he created with all his heart and is the most wonderful of all Gundam stories.

A) The problem lies with you, your preference, your idea of what 'Gundam' is, not the show.

B) Have you listened to the testimonies of the rest of us? No.

But we don't need a testimony, because all of us think that its probably one of the greatest, if not, the greatest Gundam story ever.
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Old 2009-01-22, 13:09   Link #94
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To be fair, having at least one Gundam show up in the first eps works pretty well in both s1 and s2 of 00 - in one case, their arrival is the whole point, and in the other, it shows a last gasp of one generation, while paving the way for another.


And while I haven't seen ∀ yet, I for one reserve the right not to like it, or to prefer 00 even if I do, if that turns out to be the case.
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Old 2009-01-22, 13:27   Link #95
C.A.
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Originally Posted by Nerroth View Post
To be fair, having at least one Gundam show up in the first eps works pretty well in both s1 and s2 of 00 - in one case, their arrival is the whole point, and in the other, it shows a last gasp of one generation, while paving the way for another.


And while I haven't seen ∀ yet, I for one reserve the right not to like it, or to prefer 00 even if I do, if that turns out to be the case.
Well, the point is Tomino finally got to write what he wants to.

If you've seen his old works, he puts his frustration into the story itself, though they're masterpieces, you can still sense a lingering anger in them. Not just by killing nearly everyone near the end, but also the messages he made the series carry.

Did you know he was asked/forced to make Amuro alive at the end of the first Gundam? He originally wrote Amuro dead.
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Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
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Old 2009-01-22, 14:22   Link #96
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I suppose I can understand why people can't get into Turn A, but I just can't directly compare this to other gundam shows. Its so different than the Gundam shows of the past. I just recently finished the first season of 00, and while I found it more enjoyable than the older Gundams((0079, 0083, X[], G-, Wing, and Seed/GSD) from an overall standpoint), it just doesn't feel comparable to Turn A. I don't know what it is, but maybe it's this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanqexe
delivered a vision of Gundam as an oxymoronic mover of peace rather than war, as Gundam has been depicted in previous incarnations. There is an earthen spirituality in the show, punctuated by an almost retro-70's/80's character design/color palette, and further polished through the moving scores from Yoko Kanno's brilliant mind.
I actually plan to watch Turn A over again(3rd time) before continuing with the 2nd season of 00.
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Old 2009-01-22, 14:58   Link #97
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Turn A gave me the impression that this is Tomino's true expression of his work. The series left me feeling pretty optimistic about the whole series. I always thought that the Gundam series is about selling their model kits. That would explain why Turn A had poor sales in merchandise. The series is completely different from any other Gundam series I have seen so far.
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Old 2009-01-22, 15:02   Link #98
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Nerroth View Post
And while I haven't seen ∀ yet, I for one reserve the right not to like it, or to prefer 00 even if I do, if that turns out to be the case.
No one's saying you don't have your own right to an opinion, it's just how people go about it, hating on it because of the lack of action, and now a new one --- 'because a Gundam didn't appear in the first episode.
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Old 2009-01-22, 15:06   Link #99
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That'll be like "Kids these days. Action, special effects, explosions, and mobile suits appearing in the first episode. We didn't have things like that back then. It's a story about a boy who is caught up in a storm of events that will affect the fate of two worlds." Love the 1920s settings and then stumble upon the White Doll from a statue. Talk about a perfectly preserved fossil.
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Old 2009-01-22, 15:42   Link #100
tanqexe
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Let's not get carried away here. While Tomino is certainly quite a bit better than Fukuda in certain areas of direction, it's not as if he's some sort of sterling example of this job. In fact, a lot of his direction is outright terrible; especially for his older works.

*snip*

There's a certain sense of truth to this. The characterizations and the way the atmosphere is put together, and the overall quality of the world-building is perhaps the best of any Gundam shows. I'm not sure if this is carried over as well for the grand ideas that Tomino put in though. The Alpha-Omeganess of the Moonlight Butterfly never really worked for me, and the idea of coalescing all of the Gundam shows into this one seemed ludicrous. Luckily, both of these points can be glossed over without detracting from Turn A Gundam's other qualities.
Actually I was referring to Tomino's direction in Turn-A, noting the evolution and maturation of his style. The Amuros and Camilles of his older works were downright depressing to watch, and the Hathaways (team killer) and Katsus (pink hair-chan horndog) were frustrating to behold. In Turn-A, even the somewhat annoying characters, like Sochie, you can empathize with for their naivete, while the funky characters, like Corin, were fun to observe as they did their...funky thing.

Turn-A's weakness was its great ambition to be the bookend, end-all-be-all of the Gundam multiverse. It may perhaps seem ludicrous, but I think at the time Tomino really wanted to put a conclusion to the Gundam era of his life. Unfortunately, I feel that as Tomino was weaving his tale, he finally realized that he was running out of time towards the last 6-8 episodes, as directors are often wont to do. Given another few episodes, the Black History and its legacy in the Correct Century would've been more fleshed out.

Plus, I'm going to have to disagree on one thing. Moonlight Butterfly is amazing, plus it, the Turn-A, and what the Moonlight Butterfly did to the world was an apt metaphor for the Gundam franchise.
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