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Old 2007-09-12, 19:01   Link #201
Yorae_paladin1
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We need stronger humans a la guts and less useless guys like Raki at least the anime version manga version still has hope.
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Old 2007-09-12, 21:43   Link #202
DarkSide Hero
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damn too much HuMAN love in this thread. This series is called Claymore and the main star is female. =p
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Old 2007-09-12, 21:47   Link #203
Yorae_paladin1
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Originally Posted by DarkSide Hero View Post
damn too much HuMAN love in this thread. This series is called Claymore and the main star is female. =p
I do not mind if the strong human is female but anything is better than raki at this point. at least in the anime
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Old 2007-09-12, 22:00   Link #204
hollywoodlou
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I do not mind if the strong human is female but anything is better than raki at this point. at least in the anime
we're stuck with him. Unless yagi-san introduces another male character who's not an emotional wreck/wuss who says "Clare" 8 times an episode, he's here to stay. The lone human major character....(sigh) and he cries more than my 5 year old nephew.
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Old 2007-09-12, 23:14   Link #205
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So this is what it comes down to, hm? What started out as a promising analysis and dissection of a flawed character is now par boiled to more name-calling and throwing of rotten vegetables to get him off stage. I shouldn't take it personally, but... I do. Why? Because in the quest for more excitement, people are missing the point of the character.

I will reiterate: in the manga, the Raki character is the embodiment of perseverance, the human will to survive. Claire could've easily become another Ophelia without the guardianship qualities that Raki brings out in her. In that way, he's essential.

And yet, unlike so many other masculine characters in manga, the story doesn't revolve around him. Claire doesn't go, "God, I wish Raki was here! He would know what to do," which she would undoubtedly say if Raki was a superpowered half-yoma. He's still growing into his own... and because he and Claire live for each other, I am almost certain we're going to see him in the future manga stages, stronger than ever.

But in the meantime, I see you people. I see you throwing rotten tomatoes at his time on stage while he struggles through getting back to Claire. And I think to myself that I could have spent my time more productively than sitting here trying to convince people who won't listen to a word I have to say.

I bid you good day, ladies and gents. May our paths never cross.

P.S. @ Darkside Hero: This is the Raki discussion thread. You take your man-hating ways somewhere else, because Raki is all this thread's devoted to.
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Old 2007-09-12, 23:26   Link #206
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I've tried to avoid this thread religiously (up until now) and I see that nothing's really changed. XD

May GAR no Kami strike you all down for your unbelief.

I think that people nowadays have forgotten about hope without going GARlock and the like...

The energy in this place is horrible. Must use Feng Shui to correctly align it back to a more harmonious state...
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Old 2007-09-13, 01:39   Link #207
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by DazarGaidin View Post
Sure, there are tons of claymore swords laying around. Hell if he finds rifuls abandoned lair he could use some duff rods as weapons/spears/traps. :P As to weather it maintains its hardness etc, I don't see why not? Haven't really seen the bodies revert to a softer state or anything after they were killed. Thats not to say that over time they wont decay, but if its a hardened shell..wouldn't the likely hood be it stays hard?
We've never seen what happens to them after they've had weeks to decay. Besides, you're talking about AB body parts. Much rarer than yoma ones.

Yoma seem to be made almost entirely of soft tissue. Their skin and muscles are very tough, which makes them hard to cut, but it's likely they'll soften after death.

Quote:
I definitely think its possible to kill off regular yoma (priscilla did without much problem). Just probably not a good idea to go head on with one. Powerful ranged weapons, traps, containment...all possible.
Yeah, sure, but how do you find the yoma? How do you get it where you want it? How long do you have to prepare your traps and weapons?
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Old 2007-09-13, 03:53   Link #208
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Psh. Wherever I go and talk about Raki, I'm always met with him and his human limitations and how "he'd be s much cooler if he was half-yoma."
Erm, don't automatically assume I hate Raki I just don't see him turn into a powerful being that's able to hold ground versus an average Claymore. If humans can be that powerful why do they need Claymore's for? Its a limitation created by the story.

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Originally Posted by Hamstadini View Post
Fact of the matter is, we don't know what's happened to Raki after seven years. For all we know he ended up as Priscilla's side dish, carnal or literal.
I don't think he's dead from what I've seen so far Raki benefits the most from the seven year gap so it would be a cheap cop out if he's been killed in the seven year gap (and a missed opportunity as well)
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Old 2007-09-13, 08:48   Link #209
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For me Raki = Sakura(naruto 1st serie).

He does nothing but stand there when Clare is fighting with the enemy.

In short he is a plot hole filler and nothing more.
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Old 2007-09-13, 11:39   Link #210
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I dunno how he qualifies as "plot hole filler and nothing more" if he is the one who saved Claire from Awakening in Rabonna Church.
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Old 2007-09-13, 11:48   Link #211
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Yeah. And he protected Clare from Ophelia, too. Without him, she would be dead by now.

And thanks to him we got to know Clare's human side better, too. Otherwise she would be just another 'cold badass character without emotions, searching for reveange'.

Don't forget Clare just went to that city in Riful's arc searching FOR HIM! Thanks for that Jean didn't awaked.

And thanks to him we got to know what happened to Priscilla since the Teresa's Arc, too. And there's a chance he touched her long-time lost human heart... what probably will help Clare and the others to survive, somehow.

Nothing bad for a "plot hole filler and nothing more".
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Old 2007-09-13, 11:51   Link #212
DarkSide Hero
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Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2 View Post
I dunno how he qualifies as "plot hole filler and nothing more" if he is the one who saved Claire from Awakening in Rabonna Church.
When was thelast chapter we actually saw him =p
Maybe Yagi got the memo and secretly killed him off.
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Old 2007-09-13, 12:34   Link #213
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With the last episode I am pleased to see his character develop (albeit late and slow)... I was waiting for that revelation, when he actually realizes that he has no chance of actually being the protector he tries to be. He became down on him self and now thanks to the newly added member of "the Raki Harem" Deneve now he is back on his feet (some what back on the delusional path of protector). However it is still an improvement that he reflected a bit and realized that him just swinging a sword will not do nothing in a world of yoma and claymores. Now the anime has to find hime some sort of niche, I have a feeling he is gonna evolve into more than just the side story character/side-kick and I think something that he does will be the direct result of the final outcome. Much to the horror of many of you im sure ...
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Old 2007-09-13, 15:13   Link #214
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I'm not a fan of Raki but I don't hate him. Sometimes the guy grates on my last nerve with his sorely deluded and naive belief he can stand with Clare during moments of mortal peril. But it's understandable that he just wants to help. He's just a kid after all with major tunnel vision when it comes to his favourite Claymore. I really wished she had smacked him instead when he refused to leave her while Ophelia was hunting them. I think that would have ante upped the guilt factor during their long separation and I always root for the angst. The kiss did nothing for me really.

Having said that, I'm really interested to see what's became of Raki after 7 years on his own. I'm hoping he's retained his kind hearted nature that makes him likable, but he's more tempered with a maturity that comes from becoming a warrior. I'm also hoping he's not some kick ass uber swordsman who can PWN yomas and Claymores with his abyssal flesh enhanced elite skills. I prefer a more grounded and vulnerable character. And I'm in the same camp who believe Raki's true strength lies in appealing to Clare's human heart and being a simple normal guy in extraordinary circumstances. Kinda like Xander in Buffy.

Well, I'm sure the manga will reveal all...eventually.
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Old 2007-09-13, 22:32   Link #215
DazarGaidin
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
We've never seen what happens to them after they've had weeks to decay. Besides, you're talking about AB body parts. Much rarer than yoma ones.

Yoma seem to be made almost entirely of soft tissue. Their skin and muscles are very tough, which makes them hard to cut, but it's likely they'll soften after death.
We really can't say for certain. I might be inclined to agree that regular yama don't seem particularly hardened fleshwise. But certainly some ab corpses are out there and since usually they die by claymore via a request from some town, they probably aren't too far from people.

Quote:
Yeah, sure, but how do you find the yoma? How do you get it where you want it? How long do you have to prepare your traps and weapons?
All of those are concerns, but if you think about it for a while, are you saying you can't figure it out? It wouldn't be easy but it is not impossible, some detective work maybe (again the rabona example, clare couldn't sense its location due to pills, so she had to rely on her knowledge of the enemy and deduction). Use some sort of bait?

And how long do you have to prepare a trap...i dunno, how long does it take to send a request to the org and a claymore to travel to a town? How long was the yoma in rabona killing off people (in fact, that city had implemented measures..they were just insufficient)?
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Old 2007-09-13, 23:13   Link #216
mrtictac
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im hopin isley makes raki half youma claymore :X

yea im just a romantic hopin and wishin lawl
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Old 2007-09-14, 01:45   Link #217
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by DazarGaidin View Post
We really can't say for certain. I might be inclined to agree that regular yama don't seem particularly hardened fleshwise. But certainly some ab corpses are out there and since usually they die by claymore via a request from some town, they probably aren't too far from people.
That's assuming the Organization doesn't retrieve the corpses, and that the Claymores leave anything usable.

But, OK, they might find some.

Quote:
All of those are concerns, but if you think about it for a while, are you saying you can't figure it out? It wouldn't be easy but it is not impossible, some detective work maybe (again the rabona example, clare couldn't sense its location due to pills, so she had to rely on her knowledge of the enemy and deduction).
And in the end, it didn't work. She had to rely on her youki sense after all, to eliminate the humans from the suspect list.

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Use some sort of bait?
How? Yomas are known for striking whoever, whenever, wherever. How will you make anyone particularly attractive? Ask a volunteer to bath in barbecue sauce? And how will you keep the knowledge of the existence of a bait from the yoma?

Quote:
And how long do you have to prepare a trap...i dunno, how long does it take to send a request to the org and a claymore to travel to a town? How long was the yoma in rabona killing off people (in fact, that city had implemented measures..they were just insufficient)?
But remember that yoma look human most of the time. They look like your neighbor you've known all your life. So how are you going to prepare traps without the yoma knowing? If making the traps takes too long, or demands too many resources, it's impossible.
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Old 2007-09-14, 07:21   Link #218
DazarGaidin
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And in the end, it didn't work. She had to rely on her youki sense after all, to eliminate the humans from the suspect list.
Cathedral scene. Insert a smart yoma hunting human. Up to this point you determined that the yoma has to be in the cathedral. You gather everyone up who is a suspect. You walk up to the first one and reach...for his hand. You pull out a dagger and prick his finger. Oh its red...hmmm they all have red blood instead of purple. Ok, so..based on my knowledge ...he must be disguising as a corpse!

Quote:
How? Yomas are known for striking whoever, whenever, wherever. How will you make anyone particularly attractive? Ask a volunteer to bath in barbecue sauce? And how will you keep the knowledge of the existence of a bait from the yoma?
I am not so sure they are known for that. But assuming thats true, they still are hiding as a particular person (at least we haven't seen examples of them switching around). That means there will be some sort of pattern based on a particular 'persons' actions. Superman scenario...where was clark when that superman killin was going on last night..no one should be alone..

That aside, you don't have to know or suspect the person anyway. Create a starvation scenario. Military law is enforced, people are kept under watch, set up patrols. Everyone is armed with a whistle, travel in pairs of 3 is required. If you live alone you don't anymore, you are put with other people. Also, systematic blood tests are being conducted dailey, adding pressure and desperation to the yoma (this is also how you ensure your key allies and those who know about the plans are legit).

The yoma has to avoid these situations. Targets become more scarce, any successful attack will be easier to deduce what happened. Then, you send out some juicy bait alone, seperated from the other 2 people, do it in multiple areas with sufficient backup squads. Squads are armed with powerful bows, poison tipped arrows (poison developed over time fighting them, after all you are yoma hunter). Before you say arrows wont work, an arrow is far faster and hits way harder than the daggers that little ratty dude sunk into that yoma (admittedly with little to no effect...but they werent poisoned..) A few soldiers/militia equipped with spears, a couple of your yoma hunting mercenaries accompany the regulars with claymores they found as grave markers in case the yoma gets past spears....or if he falls from the poison you can finish them.

If you think about any problem long enough someone will find a way to solve it. And thats my point. Hell if i was a yoma and i was faced with this level of security i would just leave the town.
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Old 2007-09-14, 08:40   Link #219
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by DazarGaidin View Post
Cathedral scene. Insert a smart yoma hunting human. Up to this point you determined that the yoma has to be in the cathedral. You gather everyone up who is a suspect. You walk up to the first one and reach...for his hand. You pull out a dagger and prick his finger. Oh its red...hmmm they all have red blood instead of purple. Ok, so..based on my knowledge ...he must be disguising as a corpse!
The purple blood is an anime thing. No mention of it is made in manga. But let's say detecting a yoma is as simple as pricking their fingers.

So you use your dagger and find purple blood! You're dead. The guards who were pointing their spears at the suspect, with just that mix of tension and boredom that ensures they'll be extra-slow? They're dead, too. Well, done, you've forced the yoma to change its hiding place! At the expense of several lives. And, in a city like Rabona, with all its goings and comings, and that huge population to choose from, how hard will it be for it to find a new person to imitate?

And if you truly make an inescapable deathtrap for your suspects... Chances are, the yoma will just escape early instead of doing after he's killed you and your men. But he'll still be at large, maybe even in your city.



Quote:
I am not so sure they are known for that.
Among Claymores, they are. Everyone is a potential meal. The population at large may have other ideas, involving sinners or whatever, but the Claymores know better. And so would any yoma expert.

Quote:
But assuming thats true, they still are hiding as a particular person (at least we haven't seen examples of them switching around). That means there will be some sort of pattern based on a particular 'persons' actions. Superman scenario...where was clark when that superman killin was going on last night..no one should be alone..

That aside, you don't have to know or suspect the person anyway. Create a starvation scenario. Military law is enforced, people are kept under watch, set up patrols. Everyone is armed with a whistle, travel in pairs of 3 is required. If you live alone you don't anymore, you are put with other people. Also, systematic blood tests are being conducted dailey, adding pressure and desperation to the yoma (this is also how you ensure your key allies and those who know about the plans are legit).

The yoma has to avoid these situations. Targets become more scarce, any successful attack will be easier to deduce what happened. Then, you send out some juicy bait alone, seperated from the other 2 people, do it in multiple areas with sufficient backup squads. Squads are armed with powerful bows, poison tipped arrows (poison developed over time fighting them, after all you are yoma hunter). Before you say arrows wont work, an arrow is far faster and hits way harder than the daggers that little ratty dude sunk into that yoma (admittedly with little to no effect...but they werent poisoned..) A few soldiers/militia equipped with spears, a couple of your yoma hunting mercenaries accompany the regulars with claymores they found as grave markers in case the yoma gets past spears....or if he falls from the poison you can finish them.

If you think about any problem long enough someone will find a way to solve it. And thats my point. Hell if i was a yoma and i was faced with this level of security i would just leave the town.
That assumes huge resources on your part. Where are you going to get all those soldiers? Certainly not in a small village. And let's not even talk about the loss of productivity of having everyone watch everyone else.

And remember a yoma can last weeks on a single meal. In those weeks, he'll surely find an opportunity to sabotage your efforts. Kill you most seasoned warriors and go away. Sure, the yoma problem will be temporarily solved, at a huge cost... assuming it doesn't decide to double back once the state of alert is gone. How long can you keep it up?

Though, on a brighter note, we haven't seen much smarts from yomas. Some low level cunning, but no real long term planning. So maybe it'd go better than what I've described - at least, you might be able to chase it off. Make it decide that there are easier meals out there.

But see, hunting yomas is neither easy nor cheap. I think you underestimate the difficulty, the risks, and the costs involved in dealing with even one yoma grunt, let alone an AB (who do have human-like intelligence. Fortunately, they may not look like your childhood friend.).
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Old 2007-09-14, 09:57   Link #220
DazarGaidin
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I knew the first thing you'd say was 'it isnt in the manga!' heh Well i can't really argue there, but then the manga doesn't specifically deny this either. Since i have one saying yes and the other saying nothing, I'll go with that. But thats not to say there aren't other ways we don't know about. I am sure if i thought long enough i could theorize on some ways (animals that can smell out a yoma could exist..fluffy might notice jimmy smells a little different, maybe capture a claymore, drug her or otherwise force her to do your bidding, 'rescue' a young girl claymore and use her for that purpose, or even capture and force a yoma to etc etc). If i think long enough ill figure out something.

Assuming the blood thing, and you prick their finger, he kills you, and the preparations you had in place to combat this occurance deal with the yoma. Come on, yoma can be killed by people with enough forces, they aren't equal to an army. That is why the yoma in the cathedral would run if a large amount of soldiers came. How many of those spears you think he can deflect from all directions?

As for the resources, yes you will need some weapons and a team of yoma hunter with the knowledge to mobilize and lead militia conscripted from the people. Depending on the size of the town (smaller town needs less mind..it will also be easier to weed out the yoma, less places/people to hide in/as), you have what...a cart of weapons? Thats assuming the town doesn't have weapons of their own that can be retrofitted. You make plans and put them in place, until the yoma is found and eradicated. When you leave, you leave behind a few stout men trained in what they need to reactivate the plan should the need arise, with instructions on how to have your faction dispatch any backup they may need.

All of the expense or downtime incurred probably doesn't equal the cost of a claymore, and you gain the benefit of the knowledge and plan to defend yourself in the long run.

Im not saying any of this is easy or even feasible for some towns (how many will just wet themselves and run?), i am saying that it is certainly possible. This is probably how the human population avoided eradication before the org developed claymores to combat the yoma (assuming they didn't churn them out from the start). Claymores were 'a better way' that the org developed and exploited. Doesn't mean it was the only way.
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