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Old 2007-09-14, 10:49   Link #221
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DazarGaidin View Post
I knew the first thing you'd say was 'it isnt in the manga!' heh Well i can't really argue there, but then the manga doesn't specifically deny this either.
No, but it does say only Claymores can identify a yoma. If it was as easy as seeing people's blood, do you think they'd say that?

Quote:
Since i have one saying yes and the other saying nothing, I'll go with that. But thats not to say there aren't other ways we don't know about. I am sure if i thought long enough i could theorize on some ways (animals that can smell out a yoma could exist..fluffy might notice jimmy smells a little different, maybe capture a claymore, drug her or otherwise force her to do your bidding, 'rescue' a young girl claymore and use her for that purpose etc etc). If i think long enough ill figure out something.
Wishful thinking, no matter the quantity, won't change facts.

If any dog could detect a yoma and warn people, do you think, again, that they'd mention Claymores as the only way to detect yomas? Maybe trained dogs can do something... but how are you going to train them, without cooperation from the Organization to supply live yomas to practice on?

And capturing a Claymore? So, in addition to your yoma problem, you want a war with an organization full of superhumans? You mess with them that much, you think they'll hesitate even one second to drop an Ophelia on you?

Other possibilities: powerful microscopes. Mass spectrophotometers. Think they had those, in the middle ages?

Quote:
Assuming the blood thing, and you prick their finger, he kills you, and the preparations you had in place to combat this occurance deal with the yoma. Come on, yoma can be killed by people with enough forces, they aren't equal to an army. That is why the yoma in the cathedral would run if a large amount of soldiers came. How many of those spears you think he can deflect from all directions?
And do you think a yoma will let itself be cornered so easily? For that matter, do you think people will still want to fight the yoma who's only trying to get away, once the ten most heroic people around are dead?

The yoma in the cathedral ran because it had nothing to win by fighting. Not because it was in any real danger.

Quote:
As for the resources, yes you will need some weapons and a team of yoma hunter with the knowledge to mobilize and lead militia conscripted from the people. Depending on the size of the town (smaller town needs less mind..it will also be easier to weed out the yoma, less places/people to hide in/as), you have what...a cart of weapons? Thats assuming the town doesn't have weapons of their own that can be retrofitted. You make plans and put them in place, until the yoma is found and eradicated. When you leave, you leave behind a few stout men trained in what they need to reactivate the plan should the need arise, with instructions on how to have your faction dispatch any backup they may need.

All of the expense or downtime incurred probably doesn't equal the cost of a claymore, and you gain the benefit of the knowledge and plan to defend yourself in the long run.
Dozens of trained men necessary to bring down even a single yomas, for the weeks necessary to weed it out? Practically no work being done on account of everyone having to move in threes, and not sleeping so they can keep watching each other?

And again, you underestimate the number of people needed. Sure, a few dozens might be enough to corner and bring the yoma down. But how many do you need to make sure those dozens are at the right place when the yoma finally makes a mistake and is discovered? And they'll have to be rare men, able to keep attacking despite taking heavy casualties without visibly harming the opponent.

Quote:
Im not saying any of this is easy or even feasible for some towns (how many will just wet themselves and run?), i am saying that it is certainly possible. This is probably how the human population avoided eradication before the org developed claymores to combat the yoma (assuming they didn't churn them out from the start). Claymores were 'a better way' that the org developed and exploited. Doesn't mean it was the only way.
*shrug* Yomas don't eat that much. Assuming there just weren't too many, they wouldn't be worse than the plague, or wars, or whatever.

And sure, there may be ways for humans to fight yomas. But your scheme isn't it. At best, considering how long it'd take for your people to mobilize, come into a village, and get ready to finally hunt the yoma... At best, it'll force the yomas from village to village to move a bit more often. Big deal. (At worst, you'll just get a lot of people killed without accomplishing anything.)
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Old 2007-09-14, 11:50   Link #222
DazarGaidin
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Like i said before, you can continue to argue the difficulty of anything i suggest, but you can't say it is impossible. I already outlined possibilties, anyone could nickpick at them and claim a reason they won't work in any given situation. But you can't really say they couldn't work. I am sure if a little girl with an axe can ace one, a well trained human or force of human's with a head on their shoulders can do so as well.

Quote:
And capturing a Claymore? So, in addition to your yoma problem, you want a war with an organization full of superhumans? You mess with them that much, you think they'll hesitate even one second to drop an Ophelia on you?

Other possibilities: powerful microscopes. Mass spectrophotometers. Think they had those, in the middle ages?
Sure i do, they have to maintain their facade to the rest of the world. Is she gonna lay waste to an entire town or city of humans? How long before there is an uprising? People far outnumber claymores, i dont care how powerful they are they wont stop mass armies of people. The org will lose its meal ticket as well. Im not saying some action would be taken by the org (if they do control the yoma as is theorized, im sure waves will start appearing..). Besides there might be people who hate the organization for stealing their people and turning them into monsters...im sure some of them wouldn't hesitate to do something terrible to a claymore.

But then, it was just something off the top of my head. Take a yoma instead. If you can get a yoma to the point you can kill it, you can subdue it instead somehow i am sure. Then you can keep it down with drugs and starve it to do your bidding whatever. I doubt they owe enough allegiance to any of their counterparts to risk death or even discomfort.

Oh look i am doing it again, ill just keep thinking up things for you to dismiss as not feasible lol

The whole comment about microscopes and such. I never made such suggestions but they sure do make me look silly when you loop it in with my comments!

Anyway, i find your example funny when you do have an organization capable of grafting people flesh and conducting these experiments. Teresa also mentions bacteria in relation to infections, so who knows? The might be laying around the org offices. lol
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Old 2007-09-14, 12:17   Link #223
Yorae_paladin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DazarGaidin View Post
Like i said before, you can continue to argue the difficulty of anything i suggest, but you can't say it is impossible. I already outlined possibilties, anyone could nickpick at them and claim a reason they won't work in any given situation. But you can't really say they couldn't work. I am sure if a little girl with an axe can ace one, a well trained human or force of human's with a head on their shoulders can do so as well.



Sure i do, they have to maintain their facade to the rest of the world. Is she gonna lay waste to an entire town or city of humans? How long before there is an uprising? People far outnumber claymores, i dont care how powerful they are they wont stop mass armies of people. The org will lose its meal ticket as well. Im not saying some action would be taken by the org (if they do control the yoma as is theorized, im sure waves will start appearing..). Besides there might be people who hate the organization for stealing their people and turning them into monsters...im sure some of them wouldn't hesitate to do something terrible to a claymore.

But then, it was just something off the top of my head. Take a yoma instead. If you can get a yoma to the point you can kill it, you can subdue it instead somehow i am sure. Then you can keep it down with drugs and starve it to do your bidding whatever. I doubt they owe enough allegiance to any of their counterparts to risk death or even discomfort.

Oh look i am doing it again, ill just keep thinking up things for you to dismiss as not feasible lol

The whole comment about microscopes and such. I never made such suggestions but they sure do make me look silly when you loop it in with my comments!

Anyway, i find your example funny when you do have an organization capable of grafting people flesh and conducting these experiments. Teresa also mentions bacteria in relation to infections, so who knows? The might be laying around the org offices. lol
Hmm yah the org won't make a move against humans no matter what if they do thats it for there business. If they do send claymores this will get out and humans will never trust them again. If they do control yoma again they will lose trust basically humanity will not want the orgs protection. The only way i can see them feasibly doing thatis if they put a rogue claymore/awakened and say they had nothing to do with them however this also works againstt hem cause the awakened secret is out and humanity will probably choose the lesser of two evils which si the regular yoma.
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Old 2007-09-14, 13:20   Link #224
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DazarGaidin View Post
Like i said before, you can continue to argue the difficulty of anything i suggest, but you can't say it is impossible.
I can't say it impossible for the yoma to mysteriously die off for no reason, either. Or that it's impossible for me to become a best-selling novelist. Odds are against it, though.

Quote:
I already outlined possibilties, anyone could nickpick at them and claim a reason they won't work in any given situation. But you can't really say they couldn't work. I am sure if a little girl with an axe can ace one, a well trained human or force of human's with a head on their shoulders can do so as well.
It's a matter of scale. Sure, a freak accident where a little girl sneaks up on a yoma and kills it is bound to happen sometime. You only have to wait long enough. But a band of humans being consistently successful against the yomas, over and over again, instead of being killed in the first year? Much more unlikely.



Quote:
Sure i do, they have to maintain their facade to the rest of the world. Is she gonna lay waste to an entire town or city of humans? How long before there is an uprising? People far outnumber claymores, i dont care how powerful they are they wont stop mass armies of people. The org will lose its meal ticket as well. Im not saying some action would be taken by the org (if they do control the yoma as is theorized, im sure waves will start appearing..). Besides there might be people who hate the organization for stealing their people and turning them into monsters...im sure some of them wouldn't hesitate to do something terrible to a claymore.
And I'm sure the organization wouldn't hesitate to retaliate. With extreme prejudice. Even if an Ophelia is excessive, a Raphaela would be enough to briefly convince them it was a bad idea.

There are some things you can do to the org. You can be rude to its agents, for example. But you can't stiff them out of their payment, and you certainly can't actually try to steal one of their precious tools to set yourself up as their competition without expecting retaliation.

Quote:
But then, it was just something off the top of my head. Take a yoma instead. If you can get a yoma to the point you can kill it, you can subdue it instead somehow i am sure. Then you can keep it down with drugs and starve it to do your bidding whatever. I doubt they owe enough allegiance to any of their counterparts to risk death or even discomfort.
Actually, capturing something alive and keeping it under control is harder than killing it.

You also have the problem of how to learn what drugs will work.

But let's say you do it. Then there's the problem of keeping it fed.


But let's say people decide it's alright to give you a steady supply of human guts. Then, yes, maybe you have you yoma detector... And then, it depends on how smart they are. If yomas or even AB see the danger and decide to care, they'll exterminate everyone in sight, even if they have to band together. It won't take that many of them.

Quote:
Oh look i am doing it again, ill just keep thinking up things for you to dismiss as not feasible lol
I don't dismiss them as not feasible out of hand. I try to explain why it won't work as ideally as you think.

Quote:
The whole comment about microscopes and such. I never made such suggestions but they sure do make me look silly when you loop it in with my comments!
I mentioned it because I think it's a realistic way to differentiate yomas from humans. Unfortunately, the tech level is wrong.

Just as it was impossible to combat some diseases in the middle ages, no matter how long people "thought about it". They had to reach the appropriate tech level. It's the same for yomas. Without the right tools, you're not going anywhere.

Quote:
Anyway, i find your example funny when you do have an organization capable of grafting people flesh and conducting these experiments. Teresa also mentions bacteria in relation to infections, so who knows? The might be laying around the org offices. lol
You'll have to remind me where she mentions bacterias. I certainly don't remember it.

And we don't know what's involved in the Claymorisation process. For all we know, it's as simple as "1. Cut open girl. 2. Insert yoma flesh. 3. ???? 4. Profit!". Or maybe the Organisation is made up of remnant of some long lost advanced civilization. That would explain their advanced metallurgy, too. Or it's all magic.

Whatever. For now, it looks like the Organisation has a monopoly on those resources, and they're not sharing.

I'll say this: the organisation could conceivably, with cooperation from the largest states, give normal humans ways to fight against yomas. They have access to both dead and live yomas to experiment on (well, we don't know if they ever bother capturing live yomas, but they could easily enough), they have a larger knowledge base on yomas, and can make sort-of-secure environments to experiment and train people with yoma search and destroying methods. But they don't seem to be interested.
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Old 2007-09-14, 17:27   Link #225
Ace_Sky
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Raki's AWESOME! Stop hating on him. He's way strong and emotionally harden for a kid, and plus Clare might need him to protect her someday!
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Old 2007-09-14, 19:48   Link #226
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Originally Posted by Ace_Sky View Post
Raki's AWESOME! Stop hating on him. He's way strong and emotionally harden for a kid, and plus Clare might need him to protect her someday!
I fail to see what is so awesome about Raki. He pretty much serves no purpose in the anime at all in my opinion.
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Old 2007-09-15, 14:19   Link #227
PersocomChi
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Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?i...2840307vs0.jpg

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Old 2007-09-15, 14:25   Link #228
DazarGaidin
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LOL people never realized Gut's real name was Raki :P
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Old 2007-09-15, 14:53   Link #229
mrtictac
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Originally Posted by PersocomChi View Post
Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?i...2840307vs0.jpg

i hope raki turns like that, but u can already sense the berserk fanboys screaming if the new raki even closely resembles gatts
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Old 2007-09-15, 19:14   Link #230
shouri
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Originally Posted by PersocomChi View Post
Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?i...2840307vs0.jpg

Haha, that'd be great. I'm assuming something similar will happen in the manga though.
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Old 2007-09-20, 20:22   Link #231
Hypervalor
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Raki is useful to claymores.

He can cook food for claymores... Especially for Helen :P
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Old 2007-09-20, 20:25   Link #232
DazarGaidin
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Originally Posted by Hypervalor View Post
Raki is useful to claymores.

He can cook food for claymores... Especially for Helen :P
yeah helen should totally dig on raki lol
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Old 2007-09-20, 20:31   Link #233
Hypervalor
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lol, Raki is the only and current toy for claymores :P

Raki: Clare!!!
Clare: *Whisper on Jean's ear*

minute later...
Jean: Raki...
Raki: huh? eh? oh no! Clare!!!
Jean: Hihihihehehe!

Clare: No more Raki... Just as planned!
-----------------------------------------
lol, I think Raki can't become a claymore but he can become Man in black suit like Rubel :P

or Raki was planning something...

Last edited by Hypervalor; 2007-09-21 at 20:53.
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Old 2007-09-22, 11:32   Link #234
Enara
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if raki becomes a claymore ( in a 1/10000000000 chance ) i would hate if the only reson her didn't AB was him thinking of clare like "clare I won't AB ontell i see you again" or "clare i love you i won't leave you" also i hate the rakiXclare pare
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Old 2007-09-22, 11:33   Link #235
Enara
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i do not hate Raki
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Old 2007-09-22, 11:40   Link #236
Pell14
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I hate the raki in the anime.
Raki is actually quite cool in the manga, but seriously annoying in the anime. Probably gotta
to do with the seiyu haha

As for Raki becoming a claymore, that is just LOL, cant imagine it. He probably will break the limit on his first try since he is so horny
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Old 2007-09-22, 17:10   Link #237
Hypervalor
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If raki take Clare's blood inside of him, he will be 7/8 human and 1/8 yoma.

Teresa = Half Human, Half Yoma; 1/2
Clare = 1 quarter yoma; 1/4
Claymore Raki = 1/8 yoma

Legends:
+: Human
-: Yoma

Teresa: + - (1/2 yoma)
Clare Human take Teresa's blood: + + with + - (1/4 yoma)
If Raki take Clare's blood: + + + + with + + + - (1/8 yoma)

lol, if raki become 1/2 or 1/4 yoma, awaking for him will be quick.
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Old 2007-09-22, 20:13   Link #238
King Lycan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PersocomChi View Post
Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?i...2840307vs0.jpg

Even If Raki Turned Into Guts From Berserk I DOnt He Could Take On Awakend Beings
But i Think Ishely Is Going to give him some of his flesh and turn him into the frist claymore{wat ever u wanna call} to be made using an AO's flesh thats the only way he could beat an Ao none the less an Yoma
ANd I Hate-Raki To all he does is cry alll that clare yelling that he was doing was all a lie
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Last edited by King Lycan; 2007-09-22 at 20:25.
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Old 2007-09-22, 22:02   Link #239
defrule
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I always thought Raki would protect Clare from turning to the dark side.
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Old 2007-09-22, 22:20   Link #240
King Lycan
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Well Just Being AN AO Doesnt Mean Ur On The Dark Side Even If They Eat Human's There Doing Because They Need To Live Dont We Do The Same
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