AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Claymore

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-08-26, 16:13   Link #101
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoryTate View Post
I agree with your scenario...they would do as you say. However, this doesn't meet the level of friendship I was referencing. There is a difference between your scenario and actively inviting Clare back. My scenario requires that they really want to catch up, or they miss having her around. Raki would do this, whereas Galk et al would not.
They had their own lives, whereas Raki didn't. It's true that Raki made Clare his world while they didn't. But it's not some kind of special virtue of his, seeing Clare as more human than they do. It's just a child's neediness that may have grown into some kind of unhealthy obsession.


Quote:
Good point! Children are more apt to question the world because they haven't yet been indoctrinated into its prejudices.
They also have a very erratic grasp on what's important or not, and on the cost of things.

Quote:
However, because young girls and boys aren't aware of politics yet, their opinions may actually have more merit than most. Ignorance and innocence may go hand in hand, but a child's innocence when confronted with racism, hatred, etc, are worthy in teaching us more about the reasons for our own adult(?) reactions.
That's what they say in Saturday morning cartoons. Which just goes to show that you shouldn't believe cartoons. An uninformed opinion based on emotion and ignorance does not trump one based on knowledge, experience, and reason.

Now, there are plenty of uninformed opinions among adults, that's true. So, yeah, sometimes adults are every bit as stupid as children. But an opinion doesn't become more valuable just because an ignorant kid formulated it.



Quote:
Yes, that is certainly the more reasonable choice, and Raki would do well to consider it. However...
If Raki wants to make himself useful, he'd better research ways for humans to identify and fight youmas. Enabling Claymores to visit Rabona would be a pretty hollow accomplishment - not that I think he could do it. Claymores don't want to go there in the first place, and if they wanted to, they'd just sneak in. Political protest would be a waste of time.


Quote:
I disagree very strongly here. Clare has had great difficulty in dealing with Theresa's death, although Irene did a good job in explaining the belief that a happier, caring Theresa who lived a shorter life, was preferable to an aloof, unhappy Theresa who may have survived for a longer time. Although who can say? Maybe if Clare didn't meet her, Theresa could have become happy through some other means, and still remain alive? This is a complex value judgment, full of uncertainties and unknown causalities. While I generally side with Irene on this, I still think it is a difficult question, and people will have many different opinions on it.

However, should Raki die then I think Clare would have to seriously ask the question of whether Claymores have any right to interact with humans on a personal level...to be "human" at all. Theresa's story highlights the fact that you can't be a human in a vacuum. Yet, if a pattern of misery and death is what always results from such interactions, then Clare and all Claymores should definitely avoid humans, for the benefit of both groups. Raki's death or suffering would immediately establish this pattern, and I don't believe anyone half-way rational within the story could argue otherwise...hence my use of the word "nihilistic".

The fate of Jeane does not apply here, because she is a Claymore, and there is no suggestion within the story that Claymores cannot interact deeply within their own kind, forming friendships, acting honourably, and the like. However, there is a strong, underlying question in the tale of whether Claymores and humans can live together...that is the conflict brought to the fore by Raki's character. And the decision about it still lies in the balance of his life.
My point was, one or two people aren't a pattern. You can't condemn the whole Claymore-human interaction just because it ends badly twice. Especially considering Clare's special circumstances.

But really, she should have made him stay in Rabona, just as Theresa made Clare stay in that ill-fated village. Think about it - they're always on the move, from one youma infested place to another. So... at best, a few years down the line, Clare is killed so she won't awaken. Raki is stranded in some place where he's a complete stranger. At worst, Clare is killed, and Raki is stranded some place with a youma in it. Or, heck, he's killed by the same critter that got Clare, as the only one daft enough to stay close to the fight, and maybe interfere if it goes wrong.

It'd be very nice if Claymores and humans could have a better relationship. But Raki-Clare is no example to follow in any case.
Anh_Minh is online now  
Old 2007-08-26, 20:27   Link #102
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
It is to my mind that Raki is little more than a plot-device to try and humanize the Claymores and AB's, more specifically, Clare and Priscilla. Raki is a tiny satellite around these heart-rending stories about humanity buried under the flesh of monsters. In other words, Raki is pretty much obligated to exist in Claymore, because all shounen anime are required by Japanese law to contain at least one character of pure and unadulterated idealism. A token character the audience can relate to basically.

Note that, if we were to dispense with Raki, the core story would simply be conveyed by other means. Since Claymore, is indeed, simply a story about humanity twisted into monstrous shapes and driven to morally questionable acts, blah, blah blah. Clare would still get her growth and blooming humanity by her socialization with other Claymores or with other equally disposable pieces of livestock. . .umm. . . humans. Priscilla will still be a weepy little AB with a child-like mentality and weepiness, taken-in by Isley's lordly protection.

Now, I don't particularly hate Raki, as that would be giving him more credit than a character of his caliber deserves. He's pretty much beneath my attention. I'm just saying he's equally interchangeable with any other piece of cardboard.
Finally someone who shares my view of Raki or should I say Mr "Plot Device"?

Quote:
For Raki to die or truly suffer would be a very nihilistic and depressing message to come out of Claymore, IMO. It would say "don't try to fight against injustice, and always tow society's line, or you will suffer as a result".
No, it would say "When you put yourself in an extremely dangerous situation and yet insist of behaving like a suicidal moron, you die". Not very cheerful but still not too bad, IMO. Anyway, I'd have a depressing and nihilistic message any day over "Good intentions and pure heart must prevail against anything and everything because the scriptwriters say so" but mabe that's just me.
__________________
'The world we live in is always in darkness.'
'Yes, and that is why we seek light.'

Matrim is offline  
Old 2007-08-26, 21:13   Link #103
Sci-Fi
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
You see nits of "human traits" all through Claymore. Clare commenting that she decided to try to use her human will to control Ilena's arm for instance. Raki just brings it all out at once...lol...he's supposed to be the frail and helpless one and by appealing to the "human side", he might be able to bring a few back or least show human values and beliefs can be just as strong.

As far as Rabona, the laws can be changed. Just about all the priests and the bishop himself understood they would have been wiped out without Clare's help. The problem is that they couldn't tell the population about it...at least not yet. It would be a convenient place for Claymores, if they left "en mass" from the Org to start a competing business to kill yomas. Just operate in teams so nobody gets overwhelmed or outclassed if the intel is wrong.
Sci-Fi is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 03:20   Link #104
FuzzyWuzzy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
I would like more shows about Raki but as it stands right now, he is worthless. He doesn't even have much of a role in Claire's world. Claire gets stronger without Raki. So what's the point of having Raki around anyway.

Anyway, I'm hoping the anime turns around and show more of Raki. Hey, maybe it will be like twelve kingdoms anime. Maybe we first get to see how useless he is and how much we hate him then it turns around in some episode or something.
FuzzyWuzzy is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 08:08   Link #105
Mr Hat and Clogs
Troublemaker Fanclub
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 31
Quote:
Maybe we first get to see how useless he is and how much we hate him then it turns around in some episode or something.
Maybe thats the path the manga will take, he hasn't been seen for a while, so it is a possiblity, however the path the anime is taking maybe different. Considering there are 5 episodes left, I don't think they could do much with him to make him stronger. Unless they leave it for a season two, "loosely" based on the manga.

I don't mind Raki, I think he does have his place, he does humanise elements of the story to help draw people into the world as someone said, but all in all I think he is OK, just his whiny voice gets annoying. He is just a naive, lost little boy, trying to find a foot-hold in a world going to the dogs, and in Clare he see a rock to hold onto. In the end he most likely just wants a place to live in peace with someone he can care for, isn't that what we all really want out of life . I do hope he may be in for some reality checks, questions or decisions in the near future which will force him to face up to 'real life' as it is and may draw out something deeper in his character.
__________________
Mr Hat and Clogs is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 11:24   Link #106
Hikikomori Ja nai
Pony-tails Turn me on >_<
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York City
Send a message via AIM to Hikikomori Ja nai
I believe Raki is indeed brave and strong, even more than the little credit people give him. I don't think he got enough credit for trying to protect Clare against Ophelia. Then fight Ophelia for about 5 minutes and swing a sword and hit a AB in a nose. That episode to me showed volumes about the heights Raki can reach for the need to protect the person he cares for. It showed a lot about his character, strong willed, courageous, impulsive. His character since has taken a hit but then once again who would try to snatch a meal out of an Priscilla's mouth. He is in a position in which he has to tread lightly to survive.

I don't see how Raki can possibly be a threat to a yoma, claymore, ab, nor do i want him claymored. I just want a even comparison of Raki versus the average human to get sort of a grasp that he is indeed not incompetent like many viewers have come to the opinion of.
__________________

Mikoo is my hero!! ......wait... I can't wear women's clothes! Look I'm... born with this Dandyism! - Makoto/Mako-Chan
Hikikomori Ja nai is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 11:31   Link #107
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
He's a kid with little training. How is he "competent"?

He didn't fight Ophelia for five minutes. He was toyed around for five minutes. As for that AB - she didn't even try to dodge because Raki's blows were no danger to her.

Courageous and strong willed? Maybe. But that's all.
Anh_Minh is online now  
Old 2007-08-28, 12:16   Link #108
Hikikomori Ja nai
Pony-tails Turn me on >_<
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York City
Send a message via AIM to Hikikomori Ja nai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He's a kid with little training. How is he "competent"?

He didn't fight Ophelia for five minutes. He was toyed around for five minutes. As for that AB - she didn't even try to dodge because Raki's blows were no danger to her.

Courageous and strong willed? Maybe. But that's all.
Toyed around I disagree with , It was a fight that he was obviously not going to win. It was more meant to toy around with Clare. He didn't just stand there he did make an attempt to fight and claw out a way to survive. And of course the AB didn't block, but how many weak and pathetic shounen characters would have given up long before and just awaited death until and unlikely life saving event occurred?

Look at Raki for what he is, of course he is a Kid, obviously he had no training, but thats even more reason to commend him. All he did was carry a sword in his arm for the series and now he takes it out and uses it for the sake of Clare who is obviously more capable for defending herself than he is of defending not only himself but also Clare.

Now he has become sort of like a "defender" with nothing to defend. That's where Priscilla comes in, while he no longer has Clare to look up to and pretend to protect he now sees Priscilla as that sort of weak figure who he can help. It's all like an humanitarian effort for Raki. Weird indeed but I still commend his character for being somewhat strong.
__________________

Mikoo is my hero!! ......wait... I can't wear women's clothes! Look I'm... born with this Dandyism! - Makoto/Mako-Chan

Last edited by Hikikomori Ja nai; 2007-08-28 at 12:26. Reason: addtion....
Hikikomori Ja nai is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 13:44   Link #109
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hikikomori Ja nai View Post
Toyed around I disagree with , It was a fight that he was obviously not going to win. It was more meant to toy around with Clare. He didn't just stand there he did make an attempt to fight and claw out a way to survive.
Whatever. The point is, Ophelia wasn't trying to kill him. She was trying to make his torment last. That took absolutely no skill on his part.


Quote:
And of course the AB didn't block, but how many weak and pathetic shounen characters would have given up long before and just awaited death until and unlikely life saving event occurred?
Among main casts? None, or close to it. The only ones who give up in such circumstances are nameless bit-characters whose only role in the story is to be victims and show off the enemy's evil.

Some protagonists, I'll grant, start off cowardly before growing into heroes. But when cornered into "protecting their friends", they'll show as much courage as anyone.

Quote:
Look at Raki for what he is, of course he is a Kid, obviously he had no training, but thats even more reason to commend him. All he did was carry a sword in his arm for the series and now he takes it out and uses it for the sake of Clare who is obviously more capable for defending herself than he is of defending not only himself but also Clare.

Now he has become sort of like a "defender" with nothing to defend. That's where Priscilla comes in, while he no longer has Clare to look up to and pretend to protect he now sees Priscilla as that sort of weak figure who he can help. It's all like an humanitarian effort for Raki. Weird indeed but I still commend his character for being somewhat strong.
But none of that makes him "competent", which is what I was disputing. He may be brave, but he's a yorkshire in a world of dobermans. No matter how bravely he barks, he has no bite.
Anh_Minh is online now  
Old 2007-08-28, 20:51   Link #110
Hikikomori Ja nai
Pony-tails Turn me on >_<
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York City
Send a message via AIM to Hikikomori Ja nai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
But none of that makes him "competent", which is what I was disputing. He may be brave, but he's a yorkshire in a world of dobermans. No matter how bravely he barks, he has no bite.
So your saying he is not competent as a yorkshire? well I think he is competent in his role, Just my misguided opinion though

Going to have to agree to disagree....
__________________

Mikoo is my hero!! ......wait... I can't wear women's clothes! Look I'm... born with this Dandyism! - Makoto/Mako-Chan
Hikikomori Ja nai is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 21:33   Link #111
Davidj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hikikomori Ja nai View Post
I don't see how Raki can possibly be a threat to a yoma, claymore, ab, nor do i want him claymored. I just want a even comparison of Raki versus the average human to get sort of a grasp that he is indeed not incompetent like many viewers have come to the opinion of.
Well the lesson here is that humans have no use except as morality pets. But we knew that already.
Davidj is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 21:49   Link #112
Twisted Reality
Is Neither Goth Nor Emo
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidj View Post
Well the lesson here is that humans have no use except as morality pets. But we knew that already.
Cyborgs or half-demon hybrids are just Human +. A case proven by pretty much any cyberpunk anime/manga, Inuyasha or whatever narrative nvolving protagonists tormented by living a life in the limbo between the supernatural and the human world.

That is, their souls are just as rich as any other squishy meatbags, but without the meatbag part. Faster, deadlier and more than capable of rendering older and clunkier pieces of wetware obsolete.

Remember, you're human if you hold enough faith in the fact. It doesn't matter how many enhancements you have.
__________________
There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

Big List of Anime Tropes
Flame Warriors Roster
Twisted Reality is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 22:04   Link #113
emu777
Shapeshifter Imperius
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Geez!!! with this new episode my belief of Raki's invunerability has increased..

Spoiler for Reason:
__________________
emu777 is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 22:07   Link #114
Twisted Reality
Is Neither Goth Nor Emo
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by emu777 View Post
Geez with this new episode my belief of rakis invunerability has increased..

Spoiler for Reason:
Nah. . .Clare's got him beat.
-A Yoma abused her on a repeated basis.
-She got kicked multiple times by Theresa.
-She fell off a cliff without dying, much less breaking anything.
-She survived a bandit attack.
-She survived Priscilla's Awakening.
-Then she went through a painful surgical process to become a Claymore.

It's not even really necessary to go through her career as a Claymore.
__________________
There are women who, however you may search them, prove to have no content but are purely masks. The man who associates with such almost spectral, necessarily unsatisfied beings is to be commiserated with, yet it is precisely they who are able to arouse the desire of the man most strongly: he seeks for her soul -- and goes on seeking.
-from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.405, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

Big List of Anime Tropes
Flame Warriors Roster
Twisted Reality is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 22:10   Link #115
emu777
Shapeshifter Imperius
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Reality View Post
Nah. . .Clare's got him beat.
-A Yoma abused her on a repeated basis.
-She got kicked multiple times by Theresa.
-She fell off a cliff without dying, much less breaking anything.
-She survived a bandit attack.
-She survived Priscilla's Awakening.
-Then she went through a painful surgical process to become a Claymore.

It's not even really necessary to go through her career as a Claymore.
...Touche

But that only means that both of the are protected by "the force"(the main character plot protection force that is )
__________________
emu777 is offline  
Old 2007-08-28, 22:29   Link #116
zhoutai753
zhoutai753
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGilis View Post
In short, all the male Claymores masturbates until become A.O.s.

And i doubt Raki would be different... unless, like i said some posts before, Clare gives to him all the 'sexual excitement' he needs.
LOL im sure Clare will give him all the pleasure he needs
zhoutai753 is offline  
Old 2007-08-29, 08:42   Link #117
PGilis
B-Gamer and anime otaku
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Send a message via Yahoo to PGilis
The way the things are going right now, it's her or Priscilla!!
PGilis is offline  
Old 2007-08-29, 09:04   Link #118
Cococokie
Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
116 replies lol. Many Raki "lovers" must be in here ha ha ha. I'm in the raki hater FC who want to join xD. Joining that FC = dun bother about Raki totally.
__________________
www.cococokie.wordpress.com - Claymore reviews
Cococokie is offline  
Old 2007-08-29, 11:44   Link #119
PGilis
B-Gamer and anime otaku
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Send a message via Yahoo to PGilis
Quote:
Originally Posted by emu777 View Post
...Touche

But that only means that both of the are protected by "the force"(the main character plot protection force that is )

Nah. That only means they're made to each other... a truly indestrutible couple.


No matter how much stronger enemies #47 Clare - the weakest of all the Claymores - will fight, she will survive to all of them.

And no matter how much man-eating monsters, slave traders or crazy claymores the weak human-boy Raki meets, he will survive to all of them, too.

Truly a couple made by heavens (or made by the will of the mangaka ).
PGilis is offline  
Old 2007-08-29, 12:24   Link #120
jesuita83
Curses!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: RJ, Brazil
Age: 30
Raki sux.. But The main character should have other character for Romance and stuff, so Raki shouldn't die as he's importante as some said "Plot Device", I think he's gonna transform into a male claymore under Isley or train his as off and become a super human as Guts in Berserk.. (sorry to compare Raki to Guts)
Anyway, I would love to see his death by the hand of Clare. That would rock ;P
jesuita83 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.