AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-08-14, 17:34   Link #2561
Cub-Sama
Member of DOLLARS
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Also, your logic is pretty spotty. Why should there be a creator at all? And why can't time have a beginning?
What starts the beginning of time though? We tell time through our own perceptions, if someone wanted it to be then a minute could be 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds, a day could be 38 hours instead of 24.
__________________

We are DOLLARS, credit for sig goes to CMHerrera-chan
Cub-Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-14, 17:39   Link #2562
idiffer
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Russia, Moscow
Age: 25
Send a message via ICQ to idiffer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
What starts the beginning of time though? We tell time through our own perceptions, if someone wanted it to be then a minute could be 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds, a day could be 38 hours instead of 24.
time is the attribute/quality of matter or so science tells us. so technically god has to be outside of (before) time to create the world (and time with it).
and that technically is eternity. at least human mind cant comprehend this any closer to what it is than eternity.
well, unless the world also existed forever and whenever.
__________________
My posts seem retarted? I invoke the freedomof choice upon thee to choose one of the below.
a) Iím batshit insane or mentally challenged. Nyan!
b) Wasu~p?! *brofist*
c) Your mind is too narrow to embrace my genius, de geso.
d) I was accidentally dropped into a barrel of whiskey, so now I am constantly drunk.
e) Go home and die! Dattebayo!
idiffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-14, 17:44   Link #2563
Kaze
「Darkly Charismatic 」
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Lounge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
What starts the beginning of time though? We tell time through our own perceptions, if someone wanted it to be then a minute could be 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds, a day could be 38 hours instead of 24.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer View Post
time is the attribute/quality of matter or so science tells us. so technically god has to be outside of (before) time to create the world (and time with it).
and that technically is eternity. at least human mind cant comprehend this any closer to what it is than eternity.
Yeah,

OR:



PS: I'm AtheÔst,
which is not a religion
__________________
Kaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-14, 18:25   Link #2564
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 22
Everything is ultimately subjective to human consciousness, because without our souls perceiving things, nothing can "exist" since there is nothing to behold it. Even the sundial. If I don't recognize the shadow or shapes "correctly", then there still isn't any time. If I don't have the idea of time, then the shapes and shadow means not time but something else, and I have no idea what it would mean since the idea of time is so fundamental to me. If I am a small child and don't know all the words of an adult, I will also have a different perception of the sundial.

Human perception makes the environment. Further articulation modifies it further. I say this in contrast to the common view of material as the primary form of existence. In fact, I find that perception (ideas) and material are simultaneously indispensable to what consists of "reality" and existence. Ironically, Marxism (a materialist philosophy) has a similar view with the idea of the base and superstructure, which I find exists not only on a societal but psychological level, where concepts and perceptions of reality are in fact fabricated from more and more simple observations and theses on "reality", to the point where it escapes the plane of human thought.

My personal view on Gods and spirits is that humans, being physically pieces of meat, are no doubt infinitely simple compared to what must exist in the incomprehensibly far-reaching extents of the universe. After all, the earth is no more than a speck of dust next to the great stars and galaxies. There must be great planes of existence that we cannot comprehend. The existence of greater "beings" (if such puny humans are considered "beings" I shall use this word freely) is inevitable. I do not profess to know what comprehensible effects, if any, these "beings" may have on our world or us, and I am not going to say that I believe in "religion x", but I will say that there is bound to be a higher power(s) beyond man with its(their) own "perceptions" and rules of existence, probably beyond our human-oriented scientific reasoning.
Despite not having explicit faith in a religion, I respect religions greatly as in my view their founders and great thinkers (not the politicians and warmongers who used them to control people) realized that humans are fundamentally limited and thus wanted to acknowledge the existence of other realms of perception/existence/all the stuff I mused about.

Therefore, I am not an atheist, and not an agnostic who simply says "we don't know anything." Instead, I have faith that there is more to the universe than what we as mankind can humanly perceive.
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-14, 22:37   Link #2565
Ascaloth
I don't give a damn, dude
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer View Post
the whole concept of a higher power loses meaning, if its not omnipotent. the whole concept of god and god-like entities, such as atman, tao and so on is that they are in fact perfect. so perfect that they have no form, you cannot perceive them.
"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul." - Thomas Jefferson

Quote:
using logic, you come to the conclusion that either there is an endless cycle (this created the world, that created this, x created that) or there is god, which is all and didnt need creating for he always was and always will be.
(btw i'm not referng to the christian god. just in general)
False Dilemma based on a petitio principii. On what basis do you claim that the origin of the world can only be explained by either an infinite loop or the presence of a higher entity, instead of some other mechanism? Additionally, on what evidence do you postulate the existence of said higher entity, and ascribe to it the properties of "perfection", "formlessness", "existence outside of time", and "eternal existence"?

(Damn, it's been a while since I did something like this. )
Ascaloth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 02:11   Link #2566
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
What starts the beginning of time though? We tell time through our own perceptions, if someone wanted it to be then a minute could be 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds, a day could be 38 hours instead of 24.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer View Post
time is the attribute/quality of matter or so science tells us. so technically god has to be outside of (before) time to create the world (and time with it).
and that technically is eternity. at least human mind cant comprehend this any closer to what it is than eternity.
well, unless the world also existed forever and whenever.
I wished both of you studied science in school. Time is quantified for reference and usage, so the seconds, hours, days, etc are considered periodic measurement.

Like photons, in which energy is quantified into light quanta, one could say that a second is a time quanta for mathematical calculations and such.

It isn't a hardcore definition - it is only a technical reference. In statistics, we call it quantifiers.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 03:20   Link #2567
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer View Post
i know, but the greeks were primitive. their religious system as their philosophy (well, aristotel for example) were pretty simple and down to earth.
Simpler doesn't mean wrong. For that matter, modern, scientific cosmogony doesn't include gods at all. So why don't you throw away all your religious textbooks?

Quote:
how can you settle for this - a god just appeared at the beginning of time out of nowhere wearing a robe, looking very human and decided to create the world.
It's no sillier than anything you've had to say regarding the subject. And imperfect gods would at least be consistent with our imperfect world.

Quote:
yes, everything stems from what you feel is right, but the more you know, the more it narrows down. u think its just a coincidence that so many religions share alot of the same concepts?
I think it tells us more about the human mind than about the universe. In other words, it's a matter for psychologists and sociologists, not physicists.

Quote:
and if there is no creator, i would like to see your worldview of how that would be like, please. nothing is impossible, but i am interested.
My worldview is that "a wizard did it" is no explanation. Even if you call him a God and add cheesy qualifiers such as "omnipotent" or "outside time and space".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
What starts the beginning of time though?
The Universe. Just because we're not entirely clear on how that happened (IIRC, we've got good models for what happened very soon after the beginning, but not right at the beginning.) is no call to involve God. It certainly isn't any reason to feel all superior and accomplished once you've done it.

Quote:
We tell time through our own perceptions, if someone wanted it to be then a minute could be 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds, a day could be 38 hours instead of 24.
How we humans choose to quantify time is irrelevant to the existence of time itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
(Damn, it's been a while since I did something like this. )
Yeah. I kinda missed it.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:11   Link #2568
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
What starts the beginning of time though? We tell time through our own perceptions, if someone wanted it to be then a minute could be 90 seconds instead of 60 seconds, a day could be 38 hours instead of 24.
I think you're just boiling down to semantics in this statement, which lmao doesn't really matter. Unless what you are saying is that an hour to me feels like 30 hours to someone else, in which case I think that's a pretty silly thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
(Damn, it's been a while since I did something like this. )
It's why we love you man .
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:17   Link #2569
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
It's why we love you man .
If he is what he is in his avatar you are incurring the wrath of "god".
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:21   Link #2570
Hooves
♣~Sleepy~♣
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 20
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
If he is what he is in his avatar you are incurring the wrath of "god".
Indeed

Also I think I might be an Atheist since I do not specifically believe in any religion..
Hooves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:23   Link #2571
Kaze
「Darkly Charismatic 」
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Lounge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Indeed

Also I think I might be an Atheist since I do not specifically believe in any religion..
That qualifies you as an AtheÔst, or an Agnostic


Oh and

If you do not know what being an Agnostic means:

Quote:
Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief.

In simple terms:

You don't believe in god, but you don't believe he doesn't exist either, you can't prove a higher power exists, but you can't prove he doesn't exist either.
__________________
Kaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:26   Link #2572
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
If he is what he is in his avatar you are incurring the wrath of "god".
Tis' true, thank you for stopping me from sending our world into ruin .
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:28   Link #2573
Hooves
♣~Sleepy~♣
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 20
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
That qualifies you as an AtheÔst, or an Agnostic
I could be both if that is still technically possible... Its very hard to tell which one I am since I'm not quite sure which side I learn more towards. Like how the author author Philip Pullman is thought to be both an Atheist and a Agnostic. (Also I know Kaze, I read it up on Wikipedia)

Also I wonder if people use the religion of "Haruhiism" in this thread... Reckoner was about to invoke the wrath of Haruhiism
Hooves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:31   Link #2574
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
I think what he's talking about is the seemingly arbitrary assignments of the length between intervals of time measurement, such that there's no universal law that dictates that the interval between two specific points in time must be of a specific length. Example would be the specific interval between seconds, such that the interval is assigned a specific length while it is also possible for the length to be different yet still allows for time to be measured.

Of course time itself is relative to specific and periodic measurements as Saintess said, whether it be by lunar cycles in Chinese and other Asian cultures of the relative motion of the sun by some African and American cultures, but the measuring length in between is possibly relative.
MeoTwister5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:31   Link #2575
Cub-Sama
Member of DOLLARS
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 19
Well I'm Christian, I just think it is the right way to go, I don't like every aspect of the people within my religion, such as people trying to force their own personal beliefs onto everyone like my own mother does (saying stuff like "If you don't go to church you are not christian/you don't worship God because you don't go to church every sunday") which pisses me off to no end because:
a) Going to church every week is not a requirement to be a Christian
b) I don't go to church every week because the bus journey is long and boring and most of the time I'm told things I already know.
c) I'm pretty sure God knows I love him and doesn't stop knowing that just because I don't say it every 5 seconds.

Sure people can point out the flaws in the Bible until the day I die but humans wrote the Bible and from my experience with humans they interpret things their own way, have flaws themselves. I believe in the basis of Christianity: Jesus is the Son of God and my personal saviour, God is almighty.

To me it just makes sense.
__________________

We are DOLLARS, credit for sig goes to CMHerrera-chan
Cub-Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:37   Link #2576
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I think what he's talking about is the seemingly arbitrary assignments of the length between intervals of time measurement, such that there's no universal law that dictates that the interval between two specific points in time must be of a specific length. Example would be the specific interval between seconds, such that the interval is assigned a specific length while it is also possible for the length to be different yet still allows for time to be measured.

Of course time itself is relative to specific and periodic measurements as Saintess said, whether it be by lunar cycles in Chinese and other Asian cultures of the relative motion of the sun by some African and American cultures, but the measuring length in between is possibly relative.
Forgive me, I'm sleepless right now and I didn't even really read to understand the context of his post.

Time for bed.
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:43   Link #2577
Kaze
「Darkly Charismatic 」
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Lounge
I'm glad I have no religion, why am I glad?

Because I'm in the grey middle ground, what does that mean?

being not on one side or the other, allows the wider view of all sides, with greater respect to all religions.
__________________
Kaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-15, 05:49   Link #2578
Hooves
♣~Sleepy~♣
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 20
Send a message via Skype™ to Hooves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
I'm glad I have no religion, why am I glad?

Because I'm in the grey middle ground, what does that mean?

being not on one side or the other, allows the wider view of all sides, with greater respect to all religions.
You are kinda right there, and that is what I like about being part of no religion.

You can view the majority of religions without being discriminated from the other due to the historical issues that they might still contain through the courses of history. It also helps due to the fact that there are some type of people who just love to "hate" on certain religion types.

Also you will not have to be given decisions of "Having to go to the church every week or you are not a Christian" from Cub-Sama's post, I am wrong on this, but I just don't like being told that by people who are "Fanatically" involved to deeply in that specific religion. (No offense to anyone.....) (Especially towards Cub-Sama's mother)
Hooves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-03, 15:39   Link #2579
Heiwatsuki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
I am Athiest, ive grown up as a christian, but as i grew i begane to learn and understand. many people say the view of an athiest is right, many say their religion is right, but my point of view is... Tadaaa.... its Neither or both right.(btw im 14). my view on life is that everyone should live as they please and spend the rest of their life doing what they want to do(even if its killing, it followed the general idea but based on laws and majority of the world, its considered wrong). Dont waste your life, grow up and follow your dream. The reason why i stopped becoming a christian is this... ill start with a story. one day i began to wonder about the possibility of no god... and soon i came across all the things that would be if there was no god. ever since then i began to learn and think more and more. soon my conclusion was. There is no way to prove there is a god. and and ill explain. first off. how did laws come to exist? laws were created through feelings and emotions. in the beginning people thought, oh! i dont want to be killed so lets make a rule stating that murder is illegal. and the others came to being the same way. everything was based on a persons being. as you know about only 20%(guess but i read somewhere.. but you get the point its very little percent) of our personality comes from our parents, our likes and dislikes of food and things come from them. other than that, our general everyday personality comes from experience and growth. its very important at an early age to teach children. when we are young, we are merly dolls. dolls that needs data. based on our enviroment, everyone develops their personalityes on their train of thought, experience, and ect. if a person was never introduced to the concept of being nice, they wouldnt be a nice person. each person develops differently. and this factor is one of the crucial reasons in believing in a religion or not. why do people believe in a religion? for many many reasons. some might be because they grew up with it(these kind of people i call ignorant and foolish), some because other people believe in it, and many other reasons why, one big reason would be that they cant comprehend, come to accept, or understand of the possibility of no god, no god would mean just a complete darkness where you are unaware that you are in that state, its the same as sleeping. many people view that as horrid and scary. but of course, thats just a view, some people believe that eternal life is a hell in itself, the ability to accept a certain view is all based on what kind of person you are, whether you cant accept the possibilities of there being no god, or whether you plain just dont believe it. people can even be born with the tendacy to believe that some omnicient,sentient being created the universe, and vice versa. its based on how we are born and how we grew up. there are other factors but they dont need to be said. everthing is also based on points of view. nobody is right and nobody is wrong. why do criminals think killing and stealing is more okay and not serious than others? its because of human nature of growing up. their ''viewpoints'' are the laws of their own world. since the laws we have currently worldwide in our world now were based on something so easy persuaded as personality, nothing is right or wrong. its only YOUR perspective. there are many religious fanatics who have yet to view the point of the opposite site or even understand the beginning of all. one christian might say, how did the universe be here from the start, i dont believe it was here already. and yet this idiot believes that god was here from way beyond the beginning. Existance is existance. it doesnt need a reason to exist. its the very being of everything.there is no god. and if he existed, i would resent him. i dont like the fact we were created to become slaves to some almight being who can destroy universes with the snap of his finger. also if you look at it from the view of a christian, god is the one who made our personalities the way it is. and if he sent his son to die for our sins which he created in the first place. it pretty much sums up that he set everything up to make himself look like some mighty being. anyway i would rather die and go into the eterntal darkness than be forced to live for all eternity and suffer the fate of immortality. as you saw, my reason is because i dislike and cant believe that god exists, simple and that. but.. im neither right nor wrong. religion is set so that there is nto enough proof that god exists and at the same time there is only enough proof to understand the concept of who they are worshiping. i once told my church pastor that religious people are blind, and he said they are not, they just have a different view. and from that i thought and realized that the view of an athiest and the view of a religious person are 2 sides of a coin. neither is right nor wrong. it depends on our personalities and what side of the coin it picks(and there is also a middle side...which im too lazy to explain and just pm if you want to know). since god cannot be proven or disproven, neither side is right nor wrong. my world view is that we should just live our lives doing what we want in the short time that we have( and when i mean do what we want, please consider other peoples feelings and not go insane and drive a motercycle strapped with c4 into a building or something crazy like that....live a more normal life that other people can agree on) . you can never prove your own religion exists(and if there was proof jejus christ existed, it doesnt mean that he is the son of god, please remember that). the only positive benefit i find out of religion is that it turns people into saints through a lie(my opinion). to sum it all up. the ability to believe in a certain side is because of how we are born and how we grew up mentally(this applies to all beliefs). the answer to the meaning of life is different for everyone, butt he most simpliest and best is that you should live your life the way you want, dont let an opportunity pass. dont waste life and live it to the fullest. (and this huge huge paragraph is disorganized and i may have misspelled and/or not have correctly conveyed my point of view
__________________
Heiwatsuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-03, 17:56   Link #2580
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
It's fine to not believe in God, but I wish you'd believe in proper capitalization and in paragraphs.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
not a debate, philosophy, religion

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.