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Old 2011-02-22, 16:31   Link #3101
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Has he advocated violence against those who disagreed with him? Can't be much of an extremist if he hasn't.

Labeling someone an extremist is a broad term. Extremist aren't just people who advocate violence. There are atheists who are extremists in their own right. None of the ones I know endorse violence, but they don't need to to be extreme with their beliefs.

I see Anh Minh thinks that an extremists is only one when violence is involved. If you don't like me calling Dawkins an extremist, can you at least see my point, without being too attached to words. A fundamentalist that is a Christian, who doesn't endorse violence but is over the top with their views and how they preach and promote them; think of someone like that. Dawkins is like an atheist version of said Christians. So maybe choosing the word extremist wasn't the best fit. But do you see my view now?
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Old 2011-02-22, 16:40   Link #3102
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Labeling someone an extremist is a broad term. Extremist aren't just people who advocate violence. There are atheists who are extremists in their own right. None of the ones I know endorse violence, but they don't need to to be extreme with their beliefs.

I see Anh Minh thinks that an extremists is only one when violence is involved. If you don't like me calling Dawkins an extremist, can you at least see my point, without being too attached to words. A fundamentalist that is a Christian, who doesn't endorse violence but is over the top with their views and how they preach and promote them; think of someone like that. Dawkins is like an atheist version of said Christians. So maybe choosing the word extremist wasn't the best fit. But do you see my view now?
Sure. An unpleasant man is, of course, unpleasant. It doesn't even matter what beliefs he holds. But I don't think it's fair to put him in the same bag as terrorists or even their supporters. (Like clinic bombers. Don't think I'm only referring to islamic terrorists.)

One is to be tolerated, as long as he doesn't corner you and force you to listen. The other isn't. It's as simple as that.
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Old 2011-02-22, 17:03   Link #3103
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Sure. An unpleasant man is, of course, unpleasant. It doesn't even matter what beliefs he holds. But I don't think it's fair to put him in the same bag as terrorists or even their supporters. (Like clinic bombers. Don't think I'm only referring to islamic terrorists.)

One is to be tolerated, as long as he doesn't corner you and force you to listen. The other isn't. It's as simple as that.
Maybe I chose the wrong word when I labeled him an extremist, but be assured, I definitely don't put him in the same boat as terrorists.
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Old 2011-02-22, 17:09   Link #3104
SkyFlames
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I was a christian catholic till 10 years old, then I decided to become an atheist. Although I do not think anything bad about religions
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Old 2011-02-23, 06:14   Link #3105
Doma Yuset
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My religion? Well I don't really have one, I wouldn't call logic or science or atheism religions or faiths per se. I guess my answer is: I don't happen to have any particular religion.
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Old 2011-02-23, 06:21   Link #3106
JuGG
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Originally Posted by Doma Yuset View Post
My religion? Well I don't really have one, I wouldn't call logic or science or atheism religions or faiths per se. I guess my answer is: I don't happen to have any particular religion.
Maybe this thread should be titled "what are your religious beliefs?"? However, that may sound to specific.
I fall under the atheist category after being a Catholic when I was really young, then choosing to come away from it and being unsure (agnostic) to finally settling on atheism. But, to be honest, I'm pretty open--maybe when I'm older I'll become religious once more--but at the moment I think I'm to young to grasp on to a unifying theory.
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Old 2011-02-23, 06:27   Link #3107
Hiroi Sekai
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I'm straight up Christian. My parents were raised as Roman Catholics, but I converted as I attended youth group in my town.

There are so many Christians who are going about it the wrong way; you don't force somebody to become Christian, you don't get upset that somebody has a different view, and nowhere in the Bible did it say that one must attend church every Sunday to go to heaven. I have a friend who has a strong faith in Christianity but sometimes takes it a little too far.

Just so you all know, I have quite a few atheist friends, and I rarely have time to attend church. However, I am a leader at the youth group that made me Christian to begin with. I volunteered at their summer camp for over 350 kids. Do I promote missing out on church? Absolutely not.

Thing is, I don't mind any religious beliefs (okay, there's those that base their operations on terrorism, but the proper ones). You could believe in no religion or something that opposes my views completely; at the end we're all individual beings with separate views and ideals. I respect those who can stand up for themselves and speak out their religious views despite the unfair abuse that gets thrown back at them.
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Old 2011-02-23, 07:05   Link #3108
JuGG
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Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
I'm straight up Christian. My parents were raised as Roman Catholics, but I converted as I attended youth group in my town.

There are so many Christians who are going about it the wrong way; you don't force somebody to become Christian, you don't get upset that somebody has a different view, and nowhere in the Bible did it say that one must attend church every Sunday to go to heaven.[...]
Please tell my parents this, even though they don't attend every week and known that I haven't been religious for over five years they still moan at me whenever I mention that I don't go to church. It easily the most hypocritical and strange argument I have on a regular basis, but I suppose my folks are a bit on the traditional side and they are "getting on"...
They just clearly don't know how to lead by example.
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Old 2011-02-23, 07:11   Link #3109
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuGG View Post
Please tell my parents this, even though they don't attend every week and known that I haven't been religious for over five years they still moan at me whenever I mention that I don't go to church. It easily the most hypocritical and strange argument I have on a regular basis, but I suppose my folks are a bit on the traditional side and they are "getting on"...
They just clearly don't know how to lead by example.
You can't force change, but that certainly is hypocritical. My parents actually made me attend a Korean Roman Catholic church every weekend for several years, and I couldn't get into it. Years later, they came out and apologized to me for forcing it on me, and that they respect my decisions. Thing is, if you're strong in your beliefs, your parents usually do want the best for you.

Leading by example is something my parents have difficulty doing, but it's something humans have trouble doing, so I never blame them.
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Old 2011-02-23, 13:25   Link #3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah. As I said, as long as violence in uninvolved, I think the label of "extremist" is unwarranted.
I'd have to disagree, if they're extreme enough to cause to be extremely insensitive to people or show no concern to how their actions effect people, yet aren't violent I would definitely still call them extremist.

i.e. the preachers whom feel the need to show up my college's campus and yell/scream at people though a megaphone in a rather disruptive way, and they've yelled at seemingly randomly picked people as victims to their verbal assaults, say things such they're damned to hell forever in a second of judgment by them, like a girl who was pregnant was targeted by them since she had sex, or another girl was because of simply the way she was dresses . Mind you this is an area of school where people are either going to/from class, or trying to eat, and recently they're don't care that they're being loud enough to disrupt some people in classes at the two near by buildings .
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Old 2011-02-23, 13:36   Link #3111
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
I'd have to disagree, if they're extreme enough to cause to be extremely insensitive to people or show no concern to how their actions effect people, yet aren't violent I would definitely still call them extremist.

i.e. the preachers whom feel the need to show up my college's campus and yell/scream at people though a megaphone in a rather disruptive way, and they've yelled at seemingly randomly picked people as victims to their verbal assaults, say things such they're damned to hell forever in a second of judgment by them, like a girl who was pregnant was targeted by them since she had sex, or another girl was because of simply the way she was dresses . Mind you this is an area of school where people are either going to/from class, or trying to eat, and recently they're don't care that they're being loud enough to disrupt some people in classes at the two near by buildings .
I am convinced that America has the largest concentration of the worst Christians in the world (especially in the Bible belt).
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Old 2011-02-23, 14:23   Link #3112
Remon
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I'm agnostic. I will only believe in God after his existence is proven, or I see it for myself.
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Old 2011-02-23, 15:45   Link #3113
monster
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Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
There are so many Christians who are going about it the wrong way; you don't force somebody to become Christian, you don't get upset that somebody has a different view,
I feel the same way.
Quote:
and nowhere in the Bible did it say that one must attend church every Sunday to go to heaven.
On the other hand, many Christians think that all they have to do are the things that they think can get them to heaven.

So then we get Christians saying something like, "Nowhere in the Bible did it say that one must do such-and-such to go to heaven, that means I don't have to do it."

Now, I'm not saying that I do everything, far from it. Like, there are times where I would miss going to church or whatever. But I don't try to excuse such things by saying, "The Bible doesn't say I have to do it to go to heaven." Sometimes it's not just about me going to heaven myself.
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Old 2011-02-23, 16:22   Link #3114
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
I feel the same way. On the other hand, many Christians think that all they have to do are the things that they think can get them to heaven.

So then we get Christians saying something like, "Nowhere in the Bible did it say that one must do such-and-such to go to heaven, that means I don't have to do it."

Now, I'm not saying that I do everything, far from it. Like, there are times where I would miss going to church or whatever. But I don't try to excuse such things by saying, "The Bible doesn't say I have to do it to go to heaven." Sometimes it's not just about me going to heaven myself.
That's quite true. Trust me, I don't often miss church because I'm hiding behind the fine print, but I often can't find time to. In return, I spend my holidays and breaks getting involved with my youth group leader activities, seminars and meetings. During breaks I can attend Saturday night mass as well, as Sunday mornings I have leadership activities at my college.
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Old 2011-02-23, 16:50   Link #3115
JC...
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
I feel the same way. On the other hand, many Christians think that all they have to do are the things that they think can get them to heaven.
This is one reason I believe some of Christianity is outdated. It was used in the past (Middle ages) to control the general population to some extent. With images (Actual pictures) of hell as a threat. If you don't attend church on sunday you will suffer, despite most not being able to understand the bible (I believe it was mostly only in Latin).
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Old 2011-02-24, 06:37   Link #3116
JuGG
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Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
You can't force change, but that certainly is hypocritical. My parents actually made me attend a Korean Roman Catholic church every weekend for several years, and I couldn't get into it. Years later, they came out and apologized to me for forcing it on me, and that they respect my decisions. Thing is, if you're strong in your beliefs, your parents usually do want the best for you.

Leading by example is something my parents have difficulty doing, but it's something humans have trouble doing, so I never blame them.
It's really good that they realised their mistake though--even if an apology is late or at the wrong time then it's valuable to some extent. And I do agree that leading by example is probably one of the hardest things for humans to do--we're just really bad at it; just like water we take the route of least resistance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
I'd have to disagree, if they're extreme enough to cause to be extremely insensitive to people or show no concern to how their actions effect people, yet aren't violent I would definitely still call them extremist.

i.e. the preachers whom feel the need to show up my college's campus and yell/scream at people though a megaphone in a rather disruptive way, and they've yelled at seemingly randomly picked people as victims to their verbal assaults, say things such they're damned to hell forever in a second of judgment by them, like a girl who was pregnant was targeted by them since she had sex, or another girl was because of simply the way she was dresses . Mind you this is an area of school where people are either going to/from class, or trying to eat, and recently they're don't care that they're being loud enough to disrupt some people in classes at the two near by buildings .
This is unbelievable and should be stopped, they have no right to disrupt such a large amount of people's lives. Plus, who do they think they're going to change--would anyone join up with such a band after enduring this kind of constant abuse? Preachers shouldn't be targeting anyone who doesn't want to be targeted, people like that are meant to be approachable. They should be kicked out as they are helping no-one.
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Old 2011-02-24, 18:43   Link #3117
SkyFlames
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Originally Posted by Remon View Post
I'm agnostic. I will only believe in God after his existence is proven, or I see it for myself.
You just put a name to my believes
Though I don't currently believe in god(s), if an event such as a proper miracle happens, then I think that I'd become a believer. But I found persons in my way that have said me things like "you won't get god manifistated if you don't belive in him" or "god doesn't need to show up anything but the creation to proove himselft", another things a bit hardbish like "you will discover that god exist when you burn in hell", I always answer that I'm sorry but I can't force myselft to belive in something I can't proove, isn't on my personality. As I think in myselft as a good person since I never hurt the others intentionally, I'm not afraid of suffering anything after death (if there is something) I enjoy my time here and now, not wondering which will happen after.
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Old 2011-02-27, 13:41   Link #3118
Prongs
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I'm Moslem fairly and simple.

why?

- because their god is one.
- because weren't any incovenient rite for you to communicate with god.
- easy to understand. why god command moslem lady to use hijab, or to grooming your beard? because god say so (dogmatic).
- simple

oh what about cyber beings or augments or clone or aliens does they have rigts to their salvation? yep they have, anyting that can think has equal chance to have their salvation.
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Last edited by james0246; 2011-02-27 at 15:37. Reason: the point of this thread is not to question the existence of god/God...
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Old 2011-02-27, 15:26   Link #3119
Leo Keichi
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[snip]
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Originally Posted by SkyFlames View Post
But I found persons in my way that have said me things like "you won't get god manifistated if you don't belive in him" or "god doesn't need to show up anything but the creation to proove himselft", another things a bit hardbish like "you will discover that god exist when you burn in hell", I always answer that I'm sorry but I can't force myselft to belive in something I can't proove, isn't on my personality. As I think in myselft as a good person since I never hurt the others intentionally, I'm not afraid of suffering anything after death (if there is something) I enjoy my time here and now, not wondering which will happen after.
Who said the gods are fair?
(evil laugh)

Last edited by james0246; 2011-02-27 at 15:39. Reason: irrelevant to the discussion
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Old 2011-02-28, 11:29   Link #3120
DDshoeshowz
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I identify as Buddhist, but I suppose that my religion falls more along Deist-Buddhism.
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