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Old 2008-03-24, 18:38   Link #601
twkiwilee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Wellllllll, *some* Buddhists believe in reincarnation. Others find the idea irrelevant and remain silent on the subject. Core Buddhism is about the direct experience of reality.
And many Taoists do practice ancestor-worship or ancestor-respect (their ancestors are not "gods" in the Western sense. This is one of those word-problems where a concept like "kami" does not directly translate to "god" thing .... more like "spirits", though some are very powerful).

If a woman sits quietly meditating at her parent's tombstone/grave and having a private conversation with them ... is she praying to them?

The answer kind of depends on your cultural context and how you load the words with meaning.
Um.. I think you misundestood my meaning of reincarnation.
Here try this site:Click!
Or here for a simple explanation Wikipedia is not always correct. And it cannot be trusted or explained well.

If Buddhists doesn't believe in rebirth then like I said, people/countries change the Buddhist teachings to fit their believe/taste. And if Buddhist doesn't believe them, then they have missed the purpose of life.

Moreover I didn't really mean that their ancestors are literally gods, but they worship as if they are gods.
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Old 2008-03-24, 18:40   Link #602
nines
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athiest. if you look at it this way almost all of the wars are revolved around religon or one of the other sides is a crazy religon place. thinking theirs a giant dude in the sky who will make your life better just seems stupid to me.
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Old 2008-03-24, 19:25   Link #603
aka Providence
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that may be true, or not. however, a lot of people need religion, or the idea that there is a god somewhere out there to exist. in fact, most humans need an idea to survive, and one of the most simple ideas there is would be a god. at least, it certainly has little need for many questions.
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Old 2008-03-24, 19:29   Link #604
twkiwilee
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Originally Posted by nines View Post
athiest. if you look at it this way almost all of the wars are revolved around religon or one of the other sides is a crazy religon place. thinking theirs a giant dude in the sky who will make your life better just seems stupid to me.
Well in BUddhism, there is no "giant dude in the sky"
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Old 2008-03-24, 19:32   Link #605
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by nines View Post
athiest. if you look at it this way almost all of the wars are revolved around religon or one of the other sides is a crazy religon place. thinking theirs a giant dude in the sky who will make your life better just seems stupid to me.
If you are going to take that view point let me point out something for you.

Religion was something that for many years actually created order in society.

"Why should I not kill people around me?"
"Because you go to hell"

As irrational a thought as it may seem to others, this held society together. It provided encouragement for those living to keep living despite the bad things in life, and it motivated others to do things for good causes. By having religion, society was in a way controlled.

And even if we were to abolish religion because it is as bad as you say it is, people will always fill that void with something else. The atheistic communists of yesterday and today fill that gap with their government. Their own government becomes their religion! The state, not the individual.

I'm in no way a religious person by any means, I'm agnostic, but I just feel that you have a narrow outlook on what role religion plays in life.
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Old 2008-03-24, 19:39   Link #606
aka Providence
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one other thing about wars with religion is that very few actually believe they're fighting because of god. many people kill just because other people told them to do it, or because they're people.
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Old 2008-03-24, 19:54   Link #607
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yes also in buddhism it is also to rob a store as long as your not caught -.-
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Old 2008-03-24, 20:20   Link #608
twkiwilee
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yes also in buddhism it is also to rob a store as long as your not caught -.-
What the heck are you talking about?

"rob a store and don't get caught?"

and no. There's no God in Buddhism.

Click!
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Old 2008-03-24, 20:47   Link #609
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
@Ledgem

According to scientologists, you can't say they are not absolutely right about our world because the only reason you would disagree is that your memory was erased as a thetan or whatnot.

You're whole argument is therefor false .
You're right, I can't say that they're not absolutely right. But I can say that the man who invented that idea was a science fiction writer who claimed that the best way to make money was to invent a religion, and therefore there's a very good chance that such an idea was just made up.

Just because I have to admit that Scientology's beliefs are a possibility (and they are, although there's a lot of damning evidence against them) doesn't mean that my argument is false
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Old 2008-03-24, 21:29   Link #610
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by aka Providence View Post
one other thing about wars with religion is that very few actually believe they're fighting because of god. many people kill just because other people told them to do it, or because they're people.
Yea... I don't think it all has to do with religion though. Religion was probably just used as a convenient excuse, and if it didn't exist, people would use something else anyway.

Also, i don't get what nines means by "yes also in buddhism it is also to rob a store as long as your not caught -.-"
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Old 2008-03-24, 23:21   Link #611
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nines View Post
yes also in buddhism it is also to rob a store as long as your not caught -.-
I think nines need to try that again using English grammar --- that sentence has no meaning we can discern.

@twkiwileereincarnation click:On Reincarnation) As it says, this notion of the transmigration of the soul definitely does not exist in Buddhism. Buddhanet is a good source for written materials. (note: I consider myself a Buddhist with some nasty secular humanist tendencies and a love of Shinto, eh? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by twkiwilee
If Buddhists doesn't believe in rebirth then like I said, people/countries change the Buddhist teachings to fit their believe/taste. And if Buddhist doesn't believe them, then they have missed the purpose of life.
I'm not clear on what you mean by the second sentence. Cultures don't really *change* the teachings of Buddha so much as they *integrate* them. Sometimes that makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.
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Old 2008-03-24, 23:52   Link #612
twkiwilee
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm not clear on what you mean by the second sentence. Cultures don't really *change* the teachings of Buddha so much as they *integrate* them. Sometimes that makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.
Quote:
Buddhism offers the most satisfactory explanation of where beings come from and where they are going. When we die, the mind, with all the tendencies, preferences, abilities and characteristics that have been developed and conditioned in this life, re-establishes itself in a fertilised egg. Thus the individual grows, is re-born and develops a personality conditioned both by the mental characteristics that have been carried over. And by the new environment, the personality will change and be modified by conscious effort ;and conditioning factors like education, parental influence and society and once again at death, re-establishing itself in a new fertilised egg. This process of dying and being reborn will continue until the conditions that cause it, craving and ignorance, cease. When they do, instead of being reborn, the mind attains a state called Nirvana and this is the ultimate goal of Buddhism and the purpose of life.
The bold is what I meant by reincarnation.

Different Cultures intergrate their own beliefs and/or "religion" into Buddhism. For example, Hinduism intergrate or alter Buddhism in a way that I can't believe I have friends who are from the middle east said that [in religion I forgot the name, since there just so many different relugion names in the middle east] Buddhism has a God!? What? and not just that they thought Buddha was God, which I disagree. Or another example, some Christians say: " Oh i believe in Buddhism except we'll just intergrate God into this religion" And in some countries int he middle east that [I've heard] said made up stories about Buddhism, and say that's Buddhism. And so I was kind of pissed at that.

so yea.. I hope I explained more clearly.

O yea, and what you said about "Buddhanet.net is a good source for written material"
I don't what you mean by that. (I'm not asking just so that I can rebuke you, but because I really don't know what you mean)

Last edited by twkiwilee; 2008-03-25 at 00:05.
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Old 2008-03-25, 00:20   Link #613
oompa loompa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twkiwilee View Post
Different Cultures intergrate their own beliefs and/or "religion" into Buddhism. For example, Hinduism intergrate or alter Buddhism in a way that I can't believe
get your facts straight, hinduism has absolutely nothing integrated from buddhism. theyre polar opposites as religions.. besides, hinduism is more an integration of practices from all around the subcontinent, and started taking definite shape before buddhism came into existence. there has been a long history of conflict between hinduism and buddhism in south asia. perhaps only the vaguest things are similiar - for example, initially pretty much everything in hinduism was related to birth which is the exact opposite of buddhism - buddhism is all about what you make of your life, not where you were born. also, buddhism started in the subcontinent, truth be told all the most ancient buddhist sites , sanchi, kusinagara, lumbini, bodh gaya, show definitive influences of practices outside buddhism.

most importantly they didnt alter buddhism, the altered buddhism youre talking about is buddhism in its most basic form
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Old 2008-03-25, 00:29   Link #614
twkiwilee
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Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
get your facts straight, hinduism has absolutely nothing integrated from buddhism. theyre polar opposites as religions.. besides, hinduism is more an integration of practices from all around the subcontinent, and started taking definite shape before buddhism came into existence. there has been a long history of conflict between hinduism and buddhism in south asia. perhaps only the vaguest things are similiar - for example, initially pretty much everything in hinduism was related to birth which is the exact opposite of buddhism - buddhism is all about what you make of your life, not where you were born. also, buddhism started in the subcontinent, truth be told all the most ancient buddhist sites , sanchi, kusinagara, lumbini, bodh gaya, show definitive influences of practices outside buddhism.

most importantly they didnt alter buddhism, the altered buddhism youre talking about is buddhism in its most basic form

I'm not saying Hinduism is the same as Buddhism or Hinduism intergates parts from Buddhism. I'm just upset at the fact that they talk/made up stories about how Buddhism (but not on purpose--that's what they learned) has something "holy" that's related or has some connections to Hinduism..Muslim..etc. <-- It just doesn't has to be about Hinduism..muslim..it could be anyone/ any religion, but I'm just saying it based on my past experience/encounters.

Last edited by twkiwilee; 2008-03-25 at 00:57.
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Old 2008-03-25, 01:22   Link #615
Vexx
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Its pretty typical for people to map things they don't understand onto concepts they *do* understand.... even if they're unclear on the concepts of their own belief system. That sounds a bit of what your acquaintences are doing.

As for buddhanet.net, I just meant it was a good source for getting a clue about Buddhism or in reading essays on Buddhism.
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Old 2008-03-25, 02:48   Link #616
twkiwilee
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I don't believe my acquaintences are doing anything.

but your reply and mine are actually the same for you stated: "this notion of the transmigration of the soul definitely does not exist in Buddhism" and mine "is re-born and develops a personality conditioned both by the mental characteristics that have been carried over...This process of dying and being reborn will continue until the conditions that cause it, craving" and ignorance, cease. When they do, instead of being reborn, the mind attains a state called Nirvana and this is the ultimate goal of Buddhism and the purpose of life." means the same thing.

So I don't know what you mean by "typical to map things they don't understand onto stuff they do" I didn't not try change the wordings to fit my belief/statement.

i was afraid that you might be like others that don't know what it means when Buddhist say reincarnation.
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Old 2008-03-25, 02:50   Link #617
oompa loompa
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Originally Posted by twkiwilee View Post
I'm not saying Hinduism is the same as Buddhism or Hinduism intergates parts from Buddhism. I'm just upset at the fact that they talk/made up stories about how Buddhism (but not on purpose--that's what they learned) has something "holy" that's related or has some connections to Hinduism..Muslim..etc. <-- It just doesn't has to be about Hinduism..muslim..it could be anyone/ any religion, but I'm just saying it based on my past experience/encounters.
this is true.. its a bad practice that the brahamanas used to have a bad habit of trying to integrate everything into hinduism to make it seem superior.. and i can see what you mean..

although.. im not sure about this myself, but buddhism was somewhat of an exception to this, and jainism to some extent. buddhism was pretty fervently rejected, that is exactly why ( im saying this even though ive been raised hindu ) a religion/philosophy like buddhism which is more logical and believable in every way compared to hinduism, was never too succesful, and instead really started developing further east.
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Old 2008-03-25, 03:06   Link #618
Vexx
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I think we're all nodding in synchrony (though my head hurts and its time for bed here).
What oompa posts about your friends may be what I was trying to say with "remapping".

Must sleep...
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Old 2008-03-25, 04:17   Link #619
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Those who have been following the International Saimoe League 2008 thread may have realized by now that I am indeed Roman Catholic.
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Old 2008-03-25, 08:53   Link #620
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I'm not any religion that anyone would know about. I go through life mixing what I believe is true into one thing, which is my religion. I'm not really sure if there is a term for it.

I have some things that I grabbed from a few different religions, and intertwined it together with my own thoughts.

The closest thing I could find to this was something in one of my History books called "Divine Faith", which was the belief that all religions are pretty much the same. I can't find anything about it anywhere else though. Probably because it was very old, and only existed in one small country.
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