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Old 2008-03-25, 10:46   Link #621
Solais
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I'm always making up religions that fits my image of the World. My current one is the Maxdeitism. It says, there's about 6 billion gods, called humans, and every human is the god of something, something what is the part of their life, so much that they don't realize it. They have unlimited power above it, but they don't know how to use it, because nobody really knows what is their "something" . So there is a God of Toilet paper in this world, for example.
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Old 2008-03-25, 10:59   Link #622
faustianideals
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I worship hamsters, anyone got a problem with it?
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Old 2008-03-25, 11:22   Link #623
escimo
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Originally Posted by faustianideals View Post
I worship hamsters, anyone got a problem with it?
Not at all. I worship cats. Or at least my two little devils seem to run my life.
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Old 2008-03-25, 11:25   Link #624
aka Providence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faustianideals View Post
I worship hamsters, anyone got a problem with it?
i did mention that i also worship Cthulhu. i don't think Cthulhu likes hamsters that much. cats too, methinks. in a more serious note, i will believe in a god, without any doubt in my mind, provided that he/she/it doesn't demand my belief, and give to many rules in general.
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Old 2008-03-25, 12:24   Link #625
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
You're right, I can't say that they're not absolutely right. But I can say that the man who invented that idea was a science fiction writer who claimed that the best way to make money was to invent a religion, and therefore there's a very good chance that such an idea was just made up.

Just because I have to admit that Scientology's beliefs are a possibility (and they are, although there's a lot of damning evidence against them) doesn't mean that my argument is false
I think you understood my sarcasm, but just in case I'll clarify that I was being sarcastic. I am in totally agreement with your viewpoint.
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Old 2008-03-25, 14:06   Link #626
Vexx
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Originally Posted by faustianideals View Post
I worship hamsters, anyone got a problem with it?
I don't know... are they buttered or unbuttered?
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Old 2008-03-25, 15:31   Link #627
Icehawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I admit that I'm stretching the meanings of the word, but I can't think of any other way to prove my point. It also raises an interesting point.

The point I'm making is that you can't wave away the evidence behind religion objectively because doing so is purely subjective. Beyond a certain point you're believing the words/findings of other people; you're believing that your own sensory input isn't being fooled into seeing things. When it comes down to religious accounts we can say that it sounds unrealistic, but we don't know what really happened. Was it just a story? Was there a hint of truth in it? Was it written to be metaphorical? Did these seemingly unrealistic events really happen? If you pick the first or last possibility that I mentioned you're likely either a skeptic/Athiest or a religious follower. It's totally subjective, you're simply choosing an opinion (to use a new word instead of belief) on it. For all intents and purposes in every-day life, we have to make conclusions and we can't be overly insecure of our knowledge. There's nothing wrong with that, but especially when it comes to subjects like religion, please be open to new possibilities.
I understand your point about being "open" to possibilities, but this just sounds like one big "argumentum ad ignorantiam". Science isnt 100% on anything, but it IS safe to consider it 99.99% on alot of things due to its rigorous methodology of peer review and constant retesting of its established theories (they are STILL constantly retesting the theory of relativity, gravity, evolution, etc), and as such the reasonable thing to do is to treat its current conclusions as "truth" untill actually disproven via the same methodology.

You say we should be "open to new possibilities" with regards to religious claims. However just because their is a "possibility" that something might change down the line doesnt mean we should be treating scientific conclusions to be anywhere near on the same level as other peoples personal faith based claims (regardless of the number) just because they are reached via "human senses". Part of the whole point of the scientific method is to ensure that what we percieve through our human senses is as true as can reasonably be and it has more than shown itself to be accurate in that regard. To just say "Human senses are flawed, therefore scientific conclusions and religious opinions are equally possible" is just one big logical fallacy that doesnt get us anywhere.

As well, just because someone takes a stance on something, like say atheism in my case, doesn't mean that they are NOT open to a change in their stance. Its just that given what we currently know about reality and the universe via the scientific method, it really needs to be something beyond the claims made in religious literature or the personal claims of the followers of any religion. I'm pretty sure most if not all of the atheists here would agree with this. Richard Dawkins made an interesting point in his book The God Delusion to the effect that if the fundamental constants that took effect after the "Big Bang" which govern the physical laws of the universe were ever properly shown to be more "finely tuned" as apposed to naturally occuring, then a "god hypothesis" might not be quite so far out of the question. However, there is of course nothing yet that points to any "fine tuning", and hell, even IF there ever was, it and of itself wouldnt mean that most of the claims of the bible or other religious literature are actually any more true to their word, it would simply mean there is some sort of other power at work in the universe that we hadnt yet observed.

Last edited by Icehawk; 2008-03-25 at 22:09.
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:35   Link #628
Ledgem
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I agree with your points, Icehawk. The main point I've been trying to get across really targets people who are a bit more closed on the subject. I mentioned the moon walk skeptics to show that if a person wants to believe something then no amount of proof or reasoning will convince them otherwise. To be honest I'd forgotten that Athiesm could simply be a current view that was held with an open mind. Most Athiests seem to become very defensive when put under religious discussions and seem to reach a level of conviction in their beliefs similar to those of a very religious person. My wish is that people think about what we know for themselves and reach their own understanding. You can reject the popularized version of God, but don't presume that God must match that version - as I've said, I think that a lot of religious people have only a light understanding of their religion (if they have an understanding at all).
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Old 2008-03-27, 07:53   Link #629
Suhaki
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Athiest. Religion is evil...almost every war started because of religion or beliefs, but most of them started cause of religion...it brings no good to this world. Just look what's happening now beacuse of religion. Of course that's only mine opinion...
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Old 2008-03-27, 08:03   Link #630
escimo
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Originally Posted by Suhaki View Post
Religion is evil...almost every war started because of religion or beliefs, but most of them started cause of religion...
I actually disagree. Religion has throughout history been a most used excuse for wars. Especially in nations where religions influence is large it's been a convenient pretext to justify hostilities to the general public and to gather and motivate the forces.
However almost every single time the underlying reason is something else. Perhaps most commonly greed.
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Old 2008-03-27, 08:55   Link #631
Liddo-kun
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Originally Posted by nines View Post
yes also in buddhism it is also to rob a store as long as your not caught -.-
This is the first time I've heard of this. Can you mention the source of your information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhaki View Post
Athiest. Religion is evil...almost every war started because of religion or beliefs, but most of them started cause of religion...it brings no good to this world. Just look what's happening now beacuse of religion. Of course that's only mine opinion...
Well, I partly agree with your post. Jews were massacred in WWII simply because they were Jews.
And there was the time a Pope ordered crusades to take back Constantinople from muslims - those wars claimed a lot of lives.

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2008-03-27 at 11:04.
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Old 2008-03-27, 09:57   Link #632
aka Providence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhaki View Post
Athiest. Religion is evil...almost every war started because of religion or beliefs, but most of them started cause of religion...it brings no good to this world. Just look what's happening now beacuse of religion. Of course that's only mine opinion...
i will have to disagree with this. to say that religion is evil is almost the same as denying the good brought upon by believing in a god. and since you said almost every war started because of religion and beliefs -- and the word i'm looking at is beliefs, which is quite different from religion. note that i don't think religion is a resevoir of good, either.
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Old 2008-03-27, 13:27   Link #633
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhaki View Post
Athiest. Religion is evil...almost every war started because of religion or beliefs, but most of them started cause of religion...it brings no good to this world. Just look what's happening now beacuse of religion. Of course that's only mine opinion...
Once again I'm going to respond like I did to a similar poster earlier on.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
If you are going to take that view point let me point out something for you.

Religion was something that for many years actually created order in society.

"Why should I not kill people around me?"
"Because you go to hell"

As irrational a thought as it may seem to others, this held society together. It provided encouragement for those living to keep living despite the bad things in life, and it motivated others to do things for good causes. By having religion, society was in a way controlled.

And even if we were to abolish religion because it is as bad as you say it is, people will always fill that void with something else. The atheistic communists of yesterday and today fill that gap with their government. Their own government becomes their religion! The state, not the individual.

I'm in no way a religious person by any means, I'm agnostic, but I just feel that you have a narrow outlook on what role religion plays in life.
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Old 2008-03-27, 13:40   Link #634
KholdStare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faustianideals View Post
I worship hamsters, anyone got a problem with it?
No problem at all, as long as it's not Haruhi Suzumiya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Religion was something that for many years actually created order in society.
Very good point, one I have been trying to make since forever. All major religions suggests (or in the case of some, forces) some type of system that defines morality. Except for the big law in monotheistic religions, which is roughly "I am your only God," the other "rules" help control human emotions and actions, in a good way. While the question, "Will I really go to Hell?" can be debated, we're giving Hell the benefit of the doubt, even if there is no concrete evidence.
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Old 2008-03-27, 14:16   Link #635
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
This is the first time I've heard of this. Can you mention the source of your information?
He was asked repeatedly about this with no response. Frankly, it was pulled out of thin air (i.e. no source) as it has no basis. It also has so many grammatical problems that it isn't quite clear it means what it seems to mean. (the quote was: "yes also in buddhism it is also to rob a store as long as your not caught -.-")

Quote:
Well, I partly agree with your post. Jews were massacred in WWII simply because they were Jews.
And there was the time a Pope ordered crusades to take back Constantinople from muslims - those wars claimed a lot of lives.
No, that was the *excuse* given for the treatment of Jews --- again, it traces back to greed and perceived injustice (some Jews in Germany WW2 were upper middle class and wealthy, many found work in the "white collar" banking sector - Hitler publicly blamed them for not having problems while the "average German" was crushed under their economic collapse after WWI).
The Crusades were ALL about greed and the Church wanting control over trade routes and resources. Religion was simply used to round up the troops... (which should sound familiar to those watching a certain current war in creating the "Us vs Them" rhetoric).

This is why Marxists have such disdain for religion -- over and over again through history it is used by the powerful to manipulate the masses. The guy on the ground thinks he's there defending "God and Country" or a way of life --- but the leaders are all about the power and assets mostly.

There's some quote by Oscar Wilde I think? Something like, "Men may do evil, but it takes religion to get Good Men to do Extreme Evil." I'm sure someone will look it up and correct me, but back to work for me.
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Old 2008-03-27, 14:30   Link #636
Ashihana
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haha

my god is yaranaika guy !


let's say it everyone

yaranaika
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Old 2008-03-27, 18:20   Link #637
Anh_Minh
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg


I'm not sure religion can be credited with murder laws. Even in the short term, it seems such an obvious benefit to society. I do, however, think it has much to do with our willingness to do "useless" things. Like art, or history, or sciences. (I know science is useful. A lot of it isn't immediately so, however. And you can't always tell which bit will have a use, and when.)
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Old 2008-03-27, 20:03   Link #638
Claude
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This topic was supposed to be about what everyone's religion is but most of the posts seem to just talk about religion itself... Anyway, I'm a seventh day adventist christian.
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Old 2008-03-27, 21:12   Link #639
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This topic was supposed to be about what everyone's religion is but most of the posts seem to just talk about religion itself... Anyway, I'm a seventh day adventist christian.
That's okay, I already got shot down by saying that, so if you can't win, join in the crowd and discuss religion.
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Old 2008-03-27, 23:03   Link #640
desi09
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I was raised catholic, but I realized throughout my years that I never believed in "God" (always fell asleep in mass and in Sunday school ^_^). I just can't abide to the rules, regulations, and beliefs that the Catholic church holds...not my cup of tea. So currently I am of no religion, and plan to keep it like that.
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