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Old 2008-07-28, 00:59   Link #1141
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post

What would you do?
I don't know. I'm not the one who said finding answers to those questions was easy.
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Old 2008-07-28, 01:05   Link #1142
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
I am an agnostic (technically, an ignostic), and have been for decades (since I was a boy of 12 or 13), so let me attempt to answer your questions/comments.

As we get older, the desires that originally held us over tend to become less meaningful (not that being older necessarily makes one wiser or somehow better than a younger person, rather our perspectives simply change as we age). Both of you are still young, so the lack of a specific meaning, or searching for a specific meaning, does not currently seem important. But, as you age, you might find that your accomplishments, whatever they may be, may not live up to your original aspirations, hopes, and dreams. It is then that these question concerning meaning really matter, and an answer becomes important for further emotional and mental development. This answer could be as simple as living for your family (your wife or husband and your sons and or daughters) or it could become complex as you seek to establish a record of your existence in the annals of history. Then again, you could simply turn to religion or all of the above . Suffice to say, the question of meaning will matter eventually, especially as a way of creating and shaping an identity.
What you speak of I do not consider true meaning behind life itself. You seem to be describing "raison d'etre," which isn't necessarily the same as the religious 'meaning' we have discussed.
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Old 2008-07-28, 01:09   Link #1143
Fipskuul
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I only have one life as far as I know so I might as well try to enjoy it though.
So, maybe that is the meaning of life for you. Maybe what you are doing to enjoy yourself has become the meaning of your life. But, don't worry, when you have your own family, that meaning can shape itself to a much widely shared one.
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Old 2008-07-28, 01:13   Link #1144
monster
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
That's what the Bible said... but history is written by the victors (that is, those in power). You just can't take everything in it literally. The veracity of Moses as a historical figure is in doubt (unlike other Jewish heroes), for instance. But even if you take Moses out of the picture, the fact that the leading tribes wrote the Bible many years after the events had passed, and the fact that there are a lot of different metaphors for leaders (for example, each tribe is originally represented by a single man in the Bible, which even if you don't take historicity into account, is highly unlikely) scattered throughout the Torah give you another way of interpreting the situation.
If that is how you really feel about the way the Bible was written, then don't you think these so called men in power would've paint a better picture of themselves? Instead, we get stories after stories about, basically, how the Israelites fail time after time.
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The problem is when things are taken too literally and you end up with Creationists. It's those people the ones that end up being taken advantage of by those in powers. The ones that lack any sort of critical thinking ability.

I don't have a problem with people believing whatever they might. I cannot say I'm free of any sort of irrational belief--I am but a man, after all. But putting things into perspective and questioning whether things are really what they appear to be demonstrates intelligence. I have a lot of Christian friends, and our friend Kyuusai right here is the perfect example of a level-headed Christian who manages to be devout and critical at the same time.
Ok, hopefully I won't go off topic, but answer me this:

If a person belief in a supreme being, wouldn't it be logical for that person to also belief that this supreme being could do anything, including creating the world in six days without leaving any apparent evidence behind?

Note, I'm not trying to force the idea of creation on anybody here (I'm just using it since you already brought it up), but wouldn't what I just said be a relatively insignificant leap of faith for that person compared to believing in the supreme being in the first place?
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I am not blaming Christianity. Where did you get that idea? Of course, the way I see it, religions were created by man, but even if I take that out of the way, there's no reason for me to hate the religion itself. The problem I have is with those who take advantage of other people using religion as a tool... which has happened with every major religion throughout its history. Hating religion as a concept is as stupid and pointless as hating math because I suck at it.
The part I put in bold may be what you're trying to say. But by saying even the Bible cannot be trusted (since their writers were men in power, according to you), you're giving a different implication than that.

Instead of just saying you do not like how some people use religion to take advantage of other people, you're now also effectively saying the religion itself was made in order to take advantage of other people.

Hence, my statement that whatever bad things these people have done, Christianity itself is not about that and should not be blamed (not specifically referring to you).
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Why don't you read the thread and realize we were talking about the Old Testament? Or is it less Christian? Why don't you take it off your Bible then?
Let me quote what you said earlier in this thread that started this:

As someone said already, how would you know none of the current wars are divinely justified? How would you know that Bush was actually right and that the invasion of Iraq (with all its civilian casualties, and all the tortured Iraqi and American soldiers) was his God-given right?

So I answered using the New Testament as support. Nothing in that question says I have to reply using the Old Testament.

And please, just because I did not use the Old Testament in my first reply does not mean I don't care about it or it has no use in Christianity. In fact, in my second reply I did mention the Old Testament and I said that those rights in the Old Testament were given for a specific group for a specific reason. So even using the Old Testament, my answer would still be the same.

I really don't know why you're nitpicking about which part of the Bible that I use when the question itself is not even related to the Old Testament.
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Old 2008-07-28, 01:40   Link #1145
Fipskuul
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
What you speak of I do not consider true meaning behind life itself. You seem to be describing "raison d'etre," which isn't necessarily the same as the religious 'meaning' we have discussed.
What is the religious meaning you are referring to? To believe in the God? If that is the case, you do not have to believe in the God, to share the same meaning, cause, believing in God happens through the way you live your life. And, regardless of the belief you carry for a religion, the meaning at the end is what you do in your life. As long as you live your life in a widely shared way, then you are part of that meaning, whether you desire it or not. Maybe you can also assume that, as long as you continue to live to become a better person, then you share that meaning in the way you live. It may not be true, but that is what I believe anyways.
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Old 2008-07-28, 02:04   Link #1146
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Another atheist to add to the count here.

I believe religious texts and theories, though some are universal enough to remain applicable, are largely outdated and difficult to apply to our modern day world. One only has to look at the brand new list of sins to find that writing up new rules for the modern day isn't as easy as it sounds.

Quote:
1. "Bioethical" violations such as birth control
2. "Morally dubious" experiments such as stem cell research
3. Drug abuse
4. Polluting the environment
5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
7. Creating poverty
In general, I'd just say that there's wide controversy on the subject and that it is difficult to distinguish black & white as easily today than it was centuries ago. Society has changed, people have changed.

Let it not be thought that I'm making a bad case of Christians, I'm baptized and I've practiced (Even if that's a while ago). I'm pretty sure most religions out there have outdated texts and scripts that are no longer appropriate.

Back on topic: I thus believe religions are formations of values and beliefs that are impersonated by a single spiritual entity: A god. To me, as an atheist, it means that people around me choose to believe a certain dogma and follow a certain way of life and I treat them the same I would anyone else. It is when people try to enforce their own beliefs on me, whether they are religious or not, that I will react.

And being baptized, I am "officially" a Christian. And being told by a man of the faith that I will go in hell for my opinions on the new sins is when the man crosses the line.
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Old 2008-07-28, 02:06   Link #1147
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
What you speak of I do not consider true meaning behind life itself. You seem to be describing "raison d'etre," which isn't necessarily the same as the religious 'meaning' we have discussed.
You asked for an agnostic meaning in life, and now you wish to have a relgious meaning? I have to say, I am a little confused. An agnostic can only draw meaning from their life (friends, family, personal descions and motications, etc), they can not draw meaning from a higher power.So, are you actually looking for an agnostic meaning of life, or are you looking for a religious meaning?

That being said, true meaning can be found anywhere. Don't limit yourself to the seemingly "Big Answers", because those answers never bring true hapiness. Focus on what makes you, you. That is more than enough meaning for any one man or woman to have.
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Old 2008-07-28, 02:31   Link #1148
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
So, maybe that is the meaning of life for you. Maybe what you are doing to enjoy yourself has become the meaning of your life. But, don't worry, when you have your own family, that meaning can shape itself to a much widely shared one.
Desire is the meaning of life? Only if I consider it so. I do not see any meaning in pleasuring myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
But, as you age, you might find that your accomplishments, whatever they may be, may not live up to your original aspirations, hopes, and dreams. It is then that these question concerning meaning really matter, and an answer becomes important for further emotional and mental development.
The only reason I see this ever being true for a majority is because they have already lived a lot of what life has to offer already. The last piece in the puzzle for them would be death. Perhaps this changes perspective for them. For example, when they become fathers and see a newborn child they ask themselves, "Does my child's birth really have meaning?" I find it to be superficial at the very least. Anything we tell ourselves is only going to try and make us feel better about our deaths. We naturally fear death (As we do fear the unknown), hell I am one of those people who plans to freeze their brain .

I do not seek an identity, nor do I think I ever will. This is because again, from a logical standpoint on life, an identity is just another veil we try to place ourselves behind in order to keep ourselves sane. "Oh I must have meaning in my life, I was a doctor who saved many lives and made many people happy!" I applaud it, life is precious. However if I step back and think about it... What meaning does keeping sags of meat have? We live maybe around 75 years average. The earth is like six billion years old and the Universe is what.. 27.6 billion or something I remember? We are insignificant in the stream of time. What I do today is not going to affect absolutely anyone a thousand, million, or billion years later. "Was making myself feel better really why I am alive? I was alive to make myself feel better? But... I actually do not know that because I am an agnostic!"

Answering this question on what I find meaningful just seems to be another attempt to escape this cruelty which is life. I plan to face it head on with what I know. Alleviating it with such delusions is just escapism. Running away from the truth that you are afraid that life may not have meaning at all, or that it may be something you do not like. I certainly hope I do not degrade my current resolutions in life based on such desperations.
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Old 2008-07-28, 02:52   Link #1149
Fipskuul
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Desire is the meaning of life? Only if I consider it so. I do not see any meaning in pleasuring myself.
You don't need to put boundaries on yourself regarding how one views the meaning of life. If something makes you hold on to your life, there is no reason to consider that something as meaningless.
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Old 2008-07-28, 03:34   Link #1150
james0246
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Answering this question on what I find meaningful just seems to be another attempt to escape this cruelty which is life. I plan to face it head on with what I know. Alleviating it with such delusions is just escapism. Running away from the truth that you are afraid that life may not have meaning at all, or that it may be something you do not like. I certainly hope I do not degrade my current resolutions in life based on such desperations.
I am not sure what you are talking about. No one has mentioned anywhere an opinion on death, and how one interacts with their eventual demise. That being said, Finding solace in the arms of a lover, or playing with you children (or friends), is not escapism or in any way a means of deluding oneself to our encroaching deaths. Rather, it is living with the knowledge that one day you will be dead, so why not just have fun with the time you have left. Will you be remebered across the universe upon you death, probably not, but who really cares. As long as you live your life the way you wish to live it (with certain societal restraints, of course), why should your eventual demise matter at all. We all know we are going to die, so why not just have fun until that happens .

Then again, if it is that upsetting, you should just end it now. If there is absolutely no reason to live, then stop living. Hell, even evolution can lead to a specific cases where death is the only option (ex: the mule), so if a person wishes for the end, then by all means let them accept their end.
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:07   Link #1151
TinyRedLeaf
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't know. I'm not the one who said finding answers to those questions was easy.
Well, I don't know either. I am not a wise man. I only have answers to my existential problems — and the solutions are simple to me and me alone. I don't have the answers to someone else's problems. In any case, your life is for you to live, not for me to decide. The best I can offer is counsel based on my own experiences. Whether you choose to listen to my advice is, however, your choice to make.

What is property? Property is what we own. I contend that the only thing we own is our dignity. No one can steal your self-respect unless you let him.

How do we balance our duties to society with our rights? Before we can govern a country, we must first govern a province. Before we can govern a province, we must first govern a town. Before we can govern a town, we must first govern a family. Before we can govern a family, we must first govern ourselves. Before we can govern ourselves, we must first govern our minds. Therefore, train your mind. The right balance will eventually reveal itself.

If knowledge is experience, then do more, think less. More action, more experience, therefore more learning gets done. But if the world exists as will and representation, then we are what we think, therefore endeavour to think as properly as you can.

(It also means that revelation is an intensely personal experience. Every individual is unique. Likewise his perspective of the world and reality.)

Regarding my dislike for complicated answers to the Meaning Of Lifetm, I like the moral of this apocryphal story:
Quote:
A soldier once asked one of Buddha's disciples to describe the Master's teaching. "Do good, avoid evil and keep your mind pure," the disciple replied. "That's it?" the soldier asked. "Any five-year-old child knows that."

"Maybe so," the disciple said, "but few men of 80 can practise it."
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Old 2008-07-28, 07:32   Link #1152
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Well, I don't know either. I am not a wise man. I only have answers to my existential problems — and the solutions are simple to me and me alone. I don't have the answers to someone else's problems. In any case, your life is for you to live, not for me to decide. The best I can offer is counsel based on my own experiences. Whether you choose to listen to my advice is, however, your choice to make.

What is property? Property is what we own. I contend that the only thing we own is our dignity. No one can steal your self-respect unless you let him.
So if a pickpocket makes off with your wallet, he's not a thief? Though my question referenced a less obvious problem: how do you own land? It's not like someone put it there. How do you own the fruit of a tree that grows on a land?

Quote:
How do we balance our duties to society with our rights? Before we can govern a country, we must first govern a province. Before we can govern a province, we must first govern a town. Before we can govern a town, we must first govern a family. Before we can govern a family, we must first govern ourselves. Before we can govern ourselves, we must first govern our minds. Therefore, train your mind. The right balance will eventually reveal itself.
How do you find an answer? By training your mind. Not very useful.

Quote:
If knowledge is experience, then do more, think less. More action, more experience, therefore more learning gets done. But if the world exists as will and representation, then we are what we think, therefore endeavour to think as properly as you can.
I actually agree with that... which is why I disagree with atheists "having" to define anything, or think about the meaning of their lives. It's enough to live. The rest can take care of itself.

Quote:
(It also means that revelation is an intensely personal experience. Every individual is unique. Likewise his perspective of the world and reality.)

Regarding my dislike for complicated answers to the Meaning Of Lifetm, I like the moral of this apocryphal story:
You said :
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
For atheists, the challenge is a lot greater. You have to define everything from scratch. What's good, what's evil. What is worth celebrating, what should be condemned.
And then, when I said I couldn't define anything:
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Try harder. Or rather, you don't have to try that hard. Life is "complex" because, sometimes, we think too much.
I take your dislike of complicated answers a step further: it is my contention that we don't have to give any sort of answer. Philosophy's a luxury, not a necessity. Furthermore, I think that any answer simple enough to be formulated is wrong and most probably useless.

Unless, of course, some genius comes along and makes sense of it all, like Kepler and Newton made sense of the movements of the stars. They were, of course, wrong. But not nearly as wrong as their predecessors. And what they said ultimately changed our vision of the world, and thus our world itself.

And to me, life is simple because we neglect a lot of things. Like calculating the trajectories of planets by counting only the sun and neglecting Jupiter. It's not necessarilly illegitimate. But it can be unstatisfactory, and it's certainly not looking at the truth.
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Old 2008-07-28, 08:45   Link #1153
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The part I put in bold may be what you're trying to say. But by saying even the Bible cannot be trusted (since their writers were men in power, according to you), you're giving a different implication than that.
I'm not saying it cannot be trusted. Please, stop putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that you cannot literally take the Bible and hope to apply it to today's society, because it doesn't work that way. The Garden of Eden is known to be a metaphor for the early Sumerian cities of the Tigris-Euphrates region, a region that is also known to be the origin of the Semite people that eventually gave way to the Hebrews. That's the way you read the Bible, taking it as metaphors rather than literal truth. Heck, the Genesis book even gives the reader specific directions as to where the Garden is located.

Suffice to say that I've been taught Catechism in elementary school (I went to a Catholic school), and that was one of the first things they taught us.

Quote:
Instead of just saying you do not like how some people use religion to take advantage of other people, you're now also effectively saying the religion itself was made in order to take advantage of other people.
That's my (and a lot of other people's) view on the matter, but that shouldn't prevent you from believing. I am not using that argument to shoot down anyone's beliefs.

Quote:
Let me quote what you said earlier in this thread that started this:

As someone said already, how would you know none of the current wars are divinely justified? How would you know that Bush was actually right and that the invasion of Iraq (with all its civilian casualties, and all the tortured Iraqi and American soldiers) was his God-given right?

So I answered using the New Testament as support. Nothing in that question says I have to reply using the Old Testament.
Reread the thread. We were talking about the Israelites' God-given right to wage war on the Canaanites and take their lives and their land. Which takes place in the Old Testament.

Quote:
I really don't know why you're nitpicking about which part of the Bible that I use when the question itself is not even related to the Old Testament.
Because you either lack reading comprehension skills, or aren't really reading what I'm writing.

I'll repeat it once more: The difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is proof enough that the Bible should be read differently depending on the historical moment each book was written, and what intentions it had in mind. Read Asimov's Guide to the Bible, which is easy enough and, once more, it doesn't question your belief in a superior being.
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Old 2008-07-28, 11:41   Link #1154
TinyRedLeaf
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
So if a pickpocket makes off with your wallet, he's not a thief? Though my question referenced a less obvious problem: how do you own land? It's not like someone put it there. How do you own the fruit of a tree that grows on a land?
Legally, I own property when I have exclusive rights over it. If I choose not to exercise the right, would it still be theft when someone takes the property from me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
How do you find an answer? By training your mind. Not very useful.
Being dumb is not very useful either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
... which is why I disagree with atheists "having" to define anything, or think about the meaning of their lives. It's enough to live. The rest can take care of itself... I take your dislike of complicated answers a step further: it is my contention that we don't have to give any sort of answer. Philosophy's a luxury, not a necessity.
I agree. What do you think when Socrates meant when he said the only thing he knows is that he knows nothing? "Knowing nothing" is knowing plenty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
Furthermore, I think that any answer simple enough to be formulated is wrong and most probably useless.
What makes you happy? Do you need a formula as complex as E=mc2 to describe it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
Unless, of course, some genius comes along and makes sense of it all, like Kepler and Newton made sense of the movements of the stars. They were, of course, wrong. But not nearly as wrong as their predecessors. And what they said ultimately changed our vision of the world, and thus our world itself.
I like Western philosophy and I value scientific inquiry. Certainly the nature of reality is highly complex, and apparently full of hidden rules waiting to be discovered. But does understanding the movement of the stars give your life any personal meaning? Maybe it does for you. For me, it doesn't. It only tells me about the mechanics of gravity, which is interesting to know, but it does not particularly enrich my life in any appreciable way.

Sometimes, I find that some people grow too proud of their own genius. In which case, it becomes a form of conceit. So, yeah, I'm suspicious of people who claim to be geniuses. I suspect you are too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
And to me, life is simple because we neglect a lot of things. Like calculating the trajectories of planets by counting only the sun and neglecting Jupiter. It's not necessarilly illegitimate. But it can be unstatisfactory, and it's certainly not looking at the truth.
To me, life is simple when I realise that, in the end, not a lot of things are really that important. That's not the same as neglecting them. It's accepting that the knowledge of these things don't actually matter to my happiness. They're good to know, but not strictly necessary, I believe.
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Old 2008-07-28, 11:52   Link #1155
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
You asked for an agnostic meaning in life, and now you wish to have a relgious meaning? I have to say, I am a little confused. An agnostic can only draw meaning from their life (friends, family, personal descions and motications, etc), they can not draw meaning from a higher power.So, are you actually looking for an agnostic meaning of life, or are you looking for a religious meaning?

That being said, true meaning can be found anywhere. Don't limit yourself to the seemingly "Big Answers", because those answers never bring true hapiness. Focus on what makes you, you. That is more than enough meaning for any one man or woman to have.
I do not feel an agnostic can draw 'meaning' for life itself. They can find personal reasons for living, but not a grander meaning behind life. Nowhere did I ask for an agnostic meaning behind life, for there really cannot be one. Honestly, as I do not actively believe in a higher power, I do not think there is any set purpose to our life. Life itself is simply chemicals and evolution with the right conditions, as far as I'm aware. The only 'true' purpose to living is to pass down one's genes.

Once again, you are talking about "raison d'etre," a term that essentially means one's reason to live. Family, friends, etc - these things are what bring us happiness, satisfaction, and the desire to continue living. They are our personal 'reason for continuing to live,' not the reason behind life itself. You seem to be failing to make that distinction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
What is the religious meaning you are referring to? To believe in the God? If that is the case, you do not have to believe in the God, to share the same meaning, cause, believing in God happens through the way you live your life. And, regardless of the belief you carry for a religion, the meaning at the end is what you do in your life. As long as you live your life in a widely shared way, then you are part of that meaning, whether you desire it or not. Maybe you can also assume that, as long as you continue to live to become a better person, then you share that meaning in the way you live. It may not be true, but that is what I believe anyways.
Refer to the rest of this post, as I basically explain what I meant. To reiterate, my comment on religious meaning refers to life as a whole and why life exists in the first place. An agnostic cannot answer that question, as it steps beyond known science.
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Old 2008-07-28, 12:05   Link #1156
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^Thank you for clearing up my confusion. You are looking for a meaning to existence, not a meaning to life (you are looking for a reason why you were born, not a reason to continue living). Those are vastly different questions. Meaning to life can be determined by whatever you want. A (positive) meaning to existence, though, can only be determined by the posibility of a higher power, otherwise there is no real meaning, you just are.
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Old 2008-07-28, 12:15   Link #1157
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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
^Thank you for clearing up my confusion. You are looking for a meaning to existence, not a meaning to life (you are looking for a reason why you were born, not a reason to continue living). Those are vastly different questions. Meaning to life can be determined by whatever you want. A (positive) meaning to existence, though, can only be determined by the posibility of a higher power, otherwise there is no real meaning, you just are.
All right, I believe this is also where you and I reached a misunderstanding as well.

Sure there are plenty of reasons to keep myself alive... Family, friends, entertainment, and just the fact that I only have one life.
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Old 2008-07-28, 13:18   Link #1158
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
^Thank you for clearing up my confusion. You are looking for a meaning to existence, not a meaning to life (you are looking for a reason why you were born, not a reason to continue living). Those are vastly different questions. Meaning to life can be determined by whatever you want. A (positive) meaning to existence, though, can only be determined by the posibility of a higher power, otherwise there is no real meaning, you just are.
I have always felt the meaning of existence is a more 'religious' question than what you call 'meaning of life.' That is why I was discussing it in this thread. (Technically, I suppose a devout religious person might have religion behind both meanings ). Sorry for the confusion!
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Old 2008-07-28, 13:54   Link #1159
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Legally, I own property when I have exclusive rights over it.
"Legally", yes. That means, when the government, with its cops, and lawyers, and judges, decides to enforce those rights. But laws are just a social construct. Are cops keeper of something that's "right", or thugs in uniform?

To go back from the abstract to the practical, when is it right for the poor and downtrodden to rise up and take the land back from rich landowners living off the sweat of other people?

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If I choose not to exercise the right, would it still be theft when someone takes the property from me?



Being dumb is not very useful either.
I didn't mean training your mind was useless. I meant your answer was. Too obvious, and to generic. It works for just about any subject of interest, whether it's the computation of pi's digits in base 16, or 19th century Flemish art.


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I agree. What do you think when Socrates meant when he said the only thing he knows is that he knows nothing? "Knowing nothing" is knowing plenty.
No clue.


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What makes you happy? Do you need a formula as complex as E=mc2 to describe it?
What's happiness got to do with truth?


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I like Western philosophy and I value scientific inquiry. Certainly the nature of reality is highly complex, and apparently full of hidden rules waiting to be discovered. But does understanding the movement of the stars give your life any personal meaning? Maybe it does for you. For me, it doesn't. It only tells me about the mechanics of gravity, which is interesting to know, but it does not particularly enrich my life in any appreciable way.
I was drawing a comparison, not saying the two were directly related. What I'm saying is that life is complex. To draw from its raw form a truth that is greater and simpler, that takes a touch of genius.

So it was for the movements of the stars. Newton's theory is simpler, and truer, than a lifetime of astronomical observations which only sum up to lots of numbers.

I don't mean that I, personally, am all that interested in astronomy.
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Sometimes, I find that some people grow too proud of their own genius. In which case, it becomes a form of conceit. So, yeah, I'm suspicious of people who claim to be geniuses. I suspect you are too.
People can claim what they want. The proof of the cake is in its eating.

If someone can figure out the meaning of life, or the difference good and evil, great. Let him or her write a book. There's a demand for that sort of thing. Hopefully, this time it won't end up with people getting nailed to trees.

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To me, life is simple when I realise that, in the end, not a lot of things are really that important. That's not the same as neglecting them. It's accepting that the knowledge of these things don't actually matter to my happiness. They're good to know, but not strictly necessary, I believe.
Is your happiness the meaning of life? Is it all that is good? 'cause that's what you were talking about defining.
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Old 2008-07-28, 13:57   Link #1160
TinyRedLeaf
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
You'd rather be unhappy?
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