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Old 2009-01-03, 22:47   Link #1481
euphiexx
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I'm catholic too! mainly because my parents are,but I don't hate it... much..
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Old 2009-01-03, 23:13   Link #1482
Snooker
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I 'm roman catholic.Christian influences from both east and west reached Finland a thousand years ago.
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Old 2009-01-04, 13:44   Link #1483
Issac
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Agnostic, here. There might be something out there, yes, but many religions don't rub with me right. Especially western ones, all that talk about being absolute sinner no matter what, and how Jesus died because we were all so ugly and malevolent; I simply don't agree. I believe that I am myself, and I simply follow what my heart and my mind tune to. Fortunately for me, I have a good set of morals, and I never read one page of the Bible. I guess my mother just raised me to be so.

I decided to cut a whole chunk of my original post out, as I kinda derailed for no reason. Carry on. :3
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Last edited by Issac; 2009-01-05 at 12:32.
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Old 2009-01-05, 21:36   Link #1484
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac View Post
Especially western ones, all that talk about being absolute sinner no matter what, and how Jesus died because we were all so ugly and malevolent; I simply don't agree.
That's not really "western [religions]", that's Christianity. I don't have anything against Christianity, but the idea that you should practically hate yourself because you've always been a sinner and always will be was always strange to me. I joined a Christian group as an undergraduate university student in an effort to better understand some of the core Christian beliefs, and that was probably the most frustrating view that I encountered. I met some of the absolute nicest people, and yet they'd cut themselves down due to the sinning aspect. Granted, those people do not represent the collective of Christian thought, but they were extremely devoted to their religion. Whereas your average Christian likely has nothing more to do with the religion than napping in church every Sunday, I felt that the views of my peers in that group were quite insightful as they were very diligent about studying and discussing the religion.
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Old 2009-01-06, 00:37   Link #1485
Liddo-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac View Post
Especially western ones, all that talk about being absolute sinner no matter what, and how Jesus died because we were all so ugly and malevolent; I simply don't agree.
That part about Christian teaching (and a few other things) is what turned me into an atheist years ago.

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2009-01-06 at 01:11.
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Old 2009-01-06, 11:09   Link #1486
k'2
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i am muslim and a proud one too
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Old 2009-01-07, 10:12   Link #1487
Xrayz0r
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Originally Posted by Zaris View Post
I mean like me - I have a strong faith toward science. I think the universe was created through big bangs and eons of dust gathering and comet impact. But at the same time, I believe that there are many things about the universe that we do not understand nor will I ever be able to understand in the 77 years I have left on this Earth. The world, in my point of view, was created according to complex yet natural laws. But I don't deny the possibility that there are deities out there who may or may not have contributed to the forming of the cosmos. Star Trek has taught me this and to keep an open mind.
Strong faith toward science? If that were true, it would be just as valid as any other nonsense religion, which is not the case. By definition, science involves no faith. You should be more proud about that.

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Originally Posted by euphiexx View Post
I'm catholic too! mainly because my parents are,but I don't hate it... much..
What are you even saying? You're a catholic because you're parents are.

You're either a catholic because you believe catholic claims to be true and you live according to its doctrine, or you're not catholic.

Last edited by Xrayz0r; 2009-01-07 at 10:26.
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Old 2009-01-07, 10:57   Link #1488
Kaze
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I would consider myself as an atheist?
I have no religion
However, I do have respect for other religions though, it's an interesting thing, and it's a very old thing (See Middle ages and beyond)
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Old 2009-01-07, 13:31   Link #1489
tehjoker
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I'm a Latter-Day Saint.
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Old 2009-01-07, 17:30   Link #1490
Master Anime
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I am proud to be a muslim
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Old 2009-01-07, 17:37   Link #1491
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
Strong faith toward science? If that were true, it would be just as valid as any other nonsense religion, which is not the case. By definition, science involves no faith. You should be more proud about that.
Not quite true. Science involves the the faith that the world is intelligible. That tomorrow will be much the same as today, and thus the scientific method (whatever that means) will allow us to discover the rules of the world. We're pretty confident that the sun will rise tomorrow the same as it did today, and yesterday, and so on... But ultimately, we can't be 100% sure.


Quote:
What are you even saying? You're a catholic because you're parents are.

You're either a catholic because you believe catholic claims to be true and you live according to its doctrine, or you're not catholic.
Depends what you call being Catholic. Are you a Catholic if you go to mass out of habit? Do you stop being Catholic if you're not some fundamentalist whackjob practicing the countless practically forgotten customs? There's no one right answer to those questions.
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Old 2009-01-07, 18:02   Link #1492
RandomGuy
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not quite true. Science involves the the faith that the world is intelligible. That tomorrow will be much the same as today, and thus the scientific method (whatever that means) will allow us to discover the rules of the world. We're pretty confident that the sun will rise tomorrow the same as it did today, and yesterday, and so on... But ultimately, we can't be 100% sure.
More to the point, it's the belief in the consistency and constancy of the universe: that the principles by which the cosmos operate will be the same from one moment to the next, and not spontaneously "rewritten". Obviously, this is out of keeping with any faith that believes in a deity who actively tinkers with His creations, hence the rise of of religious beliefs in a "Clockwork Universe" and "Natural Laws", as well as Deism, alongside the development of science.

Of course, people can never be 100 percent sure of anything, but science is ultimately about how well a theory's predictions fit the data. If they don't, the idea is discarded and something else is tried until the conceptual framework matches real-life output. There is no such thing as complete certainty (such is more common in religions, which believe in the ability to have absolute truths), but as an ongoing process, science constantly strives to better align its theories with observed reality. In this way, science is, and has been, quite iconoclastic, since it goes where the evidence leads rather than kowtowing to accepted Authority, and any upstart can upend even the most respected of theories by presenting a model that better accounts for the facts.

Now obviously, if the uniformitarian assumption happened to break down due to a supernatural entity rewriting local (or universal) reality, science would have to revisit its most basic tenets. But so far, it's worked pretty well.
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Old 2009-01-08, 02:44   Link #1493
YoSneaky
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I used to be a Jehovah's Witness, but I stopped. So now, I have no religion I guess.
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Old 2009-01-08, 08:04   Link #1494
Katocchi
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Originally Posted by Master Anime View Post
I am proud to be a muslim
I'm proud to be Muslim too ..


Anyone become Flying Spaghetty Monster ??
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Old 2009-01-08, 09:39   Link #1495
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Konata Fanboy View Post
I am a christian. Or a Baptist to be more specific. I am also a Haruhiist ^^
You can't have more than 2 religions if one of them is Haruhiism! Haruhi wouldn't allow it, and you won't be included in the creation of the next universe!

As a part to make you repent, I shall channel some of her moe-stic power to make you do so.....

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I'm proud to be Muslim too ..


Anyone become Flying Spaghetty Monster ??
LOL! Pastafarian. But actually that religion was created as a counter to something stupid called intelligent design.
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Old 2009-01-08, 12:56   Link #1496
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You can't have more than 2 religions if one of them is Haruhiism! Haruhi wouldn't allow it, and you won't be included in the creation of the next universe!
The fact than peoples can follow Shinto and Buddism prove than you can have 2 religion,and Haruhism is no different ( unless you can prove me wrong).
And don't forget this tread is not for conversion .
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Old 2009-01-11, 11:53   Link #1497
Xrayz0r
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not quite true. Science involves the the faith that the world is intelligible. That tomorrow will be much the same as today, and thus the scientific method (whatever that means) will allow us to discover the rules of the world. We're pretty confident that the sun will rise tomorrow the same as it did today, and yesterday, and so on... But ultimately, we can't be 100% sure.
That's plain philosophy, but it doesn't really help your point. The way you use faith, I can apply it to anything you've ever believed in and turn it into nothing, so the word faith won't even be useful anymore. Faith's current definition is belief unfounded by evidence.

Quote:
Depends what you call being Catholic. Are you a Catholic if you go to mass out of habit? Do you stop being Catholic if you're not some fundamentalist whackjob practicing the countless practically forgotten customs? There's no one right answer to those questions.
I can live with any criterion so long as it's consistent. Let's just make it a rule for now you are not a christian unless you literally believe all the things Jesus allegedly did. I'm just saying, it sounds ridiculous for people to call themselves *whatever they are* due to some random reason other than having thought about something and accepted it as their truth because it really made sense to them. "I'm christian because my parents are" sounds ridiculous, when you're talking about the truth of the world. As if it's nothing.

Last edited by Xrayz0r; 2009-01-11 at 12:08.
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Old 2009-01-11, 12:39   Link #1498
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
That's plain philosophy, but it doesn't really help your point. The way you use faith, I can apply it to anything you've ever believed in and turn it into nothing, so the word faith won't even be useful anymore. Faith's current definition is belief unfounded by evidence.
Where's your evidence that the sun will come up tomorrow? "It came up today"?

And note, that's a limit of science in general. A small leap of faith every rational being has to make. When it comes to particulars... Well, there is no human being on Earth who's done all the scientific experiments, acquired all the knowledge, done all the thinking to put the sum total of human scientific knowledge inside his own head. What does it mean? That at some points, he must take on faith that other scientists knew what they were doing.

And at best, because that is the way science works, he does it all with the knowledge that what science says isn't absolute truth, but merely close enough (or not) - for now.

So, yeah. Easy on the arrogance.

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I can live with any criterion so long as it's consistent. Let's just make it a rule for now you are not a christian unless you literally believe all the things Jesus allegedly did.
Alleged by whom? It can have a wide range of meaning, depending on what you think is apocryphal and what's not. Or metaphorical, for that matter. Walking on water? Appearing in some bowl of cereals? Those are both things he "allegedly" did.

Quote:
I'm just saying, it sounds ridiculous for people to call themselves *whatever they are* due to some random reason other than having thought about something and accepted it as their truth because it really made sense to them. "I'm christian because my parents are" sounds ridiculous, when you're talking about the truth of the world. As if it's nothing.
Why? Religion can mean different things to different people. For the strongly religious, certainly it represents the Truth of the World(tm). For many, it's more of a culture thing. IIRC, Ledgem once wrote a post about how being Jewish could be meant religiously, culturally, or ethnically. Who are you to say one meaning's the only right one, at the exclusion of all others?
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Old 2009-01-11, 14:10   Link #1499
Kimfamous
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I'm a christian, I love God, and I don't need to prove my belief to anyone, nor do I need to prove he exists.
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Old 2009-01-13, 14:07   Link #1500
Xrayz0r
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Where's your evidence that the sun will come up tomorrow? "It came up today"?

And note, that's a limit of science in general. A small leap of faith every rational being has to make. When it comes to particulars... Well, there is no human being on Earth who's done all the scientific experiments, acquired all the knowledge, done all the thinking to put the sum total of human scientific knowledge inside his own head. What does it mean? That at some points, he must take on faith that other scientists knew what they were doing.

And at best, because that is the way science works, he does it all with the knowledge that what science says isn't absolute truth, but merely close enough (or not) - for now.

So, yeah. Easy on the arrogance.
Your response is perfectly consistent with what I said, I take it you didn't understand what I meant, not even slightly. What I meant was that your definition of faith really kills the use for the word in the first place, because there really isn't anything in your knowledge that you do know for sure. Same goes for the sun going up, and for your knowledge that your mother is your mother. So you end up with a word that really isn't useful in any kind of context, because suddenly everything becomes faith.

With that in mind, I use the term faith as defined by belief unfounded by evidence. Now, we already know that science is based on some basic assumptions. One, that if a pattern repeats itself it is safe to assume it will remain the same (hence a law), and that a natural law once formulated extends to everywhere else in the universe. Any respectable scientist is aware of this, it's pretty basic and I hope you didn't think you were the only one to ever figure this out when you entered this thread. It's blown this thing entirely out of proportion after I simply commented on a guy who thought religion and science are equal in terms of dependency of faith. They are obviously not, I dare you challenge that.

On the religion topic, pretty much the same thing. You're not arguing my point, you're messing with definitions, and religion suddenly becomes a bunch of other stuff I didn't consider posting my thoughts. You were obviously aware of this. Kind of lame you feel like picking on words rather than ideas. I'll say, if tomorrow the dictionary doesn't have their number #1 definition of religion as this, and Christianity, I shall lay down my argument that being a christian simply because your parents are is pretty ridiculous.

Last edited by Xrayz0r; 2009-01-13 at 14:17.
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