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Old 2009-04-15, 22:51   Link #1741
BanishingBook
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^ - not likely. they aren't looney, I can concur. I graduated from a Jesuit school and everybody had tolerance for religious diversity
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Old 2009-04-15, 23:24   Link #1742
danin8r44
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I've gone to private Catholic and Jesuit schools most of my life, and I found that there wasn't as much a culture of religion as there was a culture of money. Every single kid at those schools with very few exceptions were rich and white. I had religious classes in school when I was younger, but kids generally didn't care about those classes and many of the kids attending them weren't even religious. The looniness came from so much concentrated white money, hell a good portion of kids at private schools are there because they got in trouble at public schools and their parents can pay to keep them out of trouble by sending them to a private "religious" school. Of course I can't speak for Baptist or Evangelical private schools, just the Catholic ones.(coming from a rich(ish) white kid)
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Old 2009-09-10, 16:47   Link #1743
Xrayz0r
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Just thought I'd look up my old favorite thread and see if anyone's still interested in discussing the topic... my view has shifted these last few months.

Anyone there?
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Old 2009-09-10, 17:38   Link #1744
Dilla
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Religious views?

Well, I'm consider myself an agnostic at the moment.

Stratch that, the ways of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has gained my interest.

Last edited by Dilla; 2009-09-10 at 18:03.
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Old 2009-09-11, 01:06   Link #1745
Cipher
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Lots of atheists here(reminds me of japan). But I think most of the people who declared they're atheists are, in truth, actually agnostics. I mean... since all our scientific explanations regarding the origins of the world are all based on theoretical assumptions, denying the possibility of a supernatural being existence is a bit hard. Then again, Existence of God could possibly be a scientific theory itself. I, myself, think agnosticism to be the most intellectual/scientific stand.
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Old 2009-09-11, 03:09   Link #1746
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebichuman View Post
Even if they aren't looney, they still pose problems. I can only speak for the religious private school my brother went to, but there was a huge lack of diversity. Their ideas weren't forced on students in their curriculum, but were due to the environment they were in. A Christian private school, with Christian teachers, which naturally attracted only Christian parents. They claimed to be impartial, but I say "claimed" because I never heard any differing views. The pressure for conformity to one religious viewpoint was strong, even if that wasn't necessarily the schools intent.

They're better than public schools education wise, but I'd be nice if they were secular instead.
To be fair, I'm a muslim that has gone to private british grammar school where the majority were secular and i found the pressure to conform to conflicting viewpoints very strong. That pressure still exists even now.
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Old 2009-09-11, 03:17   Link #1747
npcomplete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
Just thought I'd look up my old favorite thread and see if anyone's still interested in discussing the topic... my view has shifted these last few months.
How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Lots of atheists here(reminds me of japan). But I think most of the people who declared they're atheists are, in truth, actually agnostics. I mean... since all our scientific explanations regarding the origins of the world are all based on theoretical assumptions, denying the possibility of a supernatural being existence is a bit hard. Then again, Existence of God could possibly be a scientific theory itself. I, myself, think agnosticism to be the most intellectual/scientific stand.
On Japan, yeah I also saw some 'official' chart on religious breakdown by country and it showed Japan as majorly atheist which I don't think is accurate at all. It's more like you said: agnostic. Perhaps there was some translation issue in administering the survey on which this was based.

Interestingly Buddhism is accurately classified "non-theistic". (Not atheistic, nor poly or mono-theistic). When you get down to the core philosophy, I'd also classify Hinduism and Shintoism as nontheistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
To be fair, I'm a muslim that has gone to private british grammar school where the majority were secular and i found the pressure to conform to conflicting viewpoints very strong. That pressure still exists even now.
That's an interesting point because I believe there is strong pressure both ways too, from different directions depending on location (people and school)

I myself went to a poor urban Catholic high school were people were hardly religious (and didn't care, nor were strictly secular) and our religion teachers were open to other ideas.
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Old 2009-09-11, 03:22   Link #1748
coderlan
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I'm a Jehovah's Witness but doutbting it, becoming an atheist as well. My parents are always denying my decision which sux.
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Old 2009-09-11, 11:26   Link #1749
Proto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Lots of atheists here(reminds me of japan). But I think most of the people who declared they're atheists are, in truth, actually agnostics. I mean... since all our scientific explanations regarding the origins of the world are all based on theoretical assumptions, denying the possibility of a supernatural being existence is a bit hard. Then again, Existence of God could possibly be a scientific theory itself. I, myself, think agnosticism to be the most intellectual/scientific stand.
One can be a strong agnostic or a weak atheist (aka agnostic atheist). The position is best summarized by Richard Dawkins:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dawkins
I am an agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden.
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Old 2009-09-11, 12:51   Link #1750
Vexx
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Aye, I'd recommend reading "The God Delusion" by Dawkins for a good exposition on the non-theistic categories.

I, for one, find it amusing that Buddhism is so hard for some to categorize (theistic or non-theistic). And Shinto might best be described as pan-theistic or animist.... its not non-theistic at all. Personally, I find it quite poetic in its lyrical description of the world and what motivates it.
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Old 2009-09-11, 13:01   Link #1751
Kafriel
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Guess I'm part of the christian orthodox minority...no need to look at anything scientifically, it's the way I was raised, and since religion is all about faith, it's been too convenient to even think about something else.
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Old 2009-09-11, 13:26   Link #1752
don_Durandal
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Atheist, in the strict sense of the word.
Not agnostic as I don't even want to consider the existence of the supernatural.
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Old 2009-09-11, 13:27   Link #1753
Tsuyoshi
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Well, I was born and raised catholic by my family, but ever since I moved out into the world, starting from Saudi Arabia, I started realizing there are too many inconsistencies in the bible to list because of how many things were taken from other religions. Don't get me wrong, I still believe in God, but I don't believe the stories written in the bible are true or correctly interpret its will and testament. I'm still officially roman catholic, but I see myself as agnostic.
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Old 2009-09-11, 14:50   Link #1754
Proto
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Hmm... if you still believe in God you might something more on the lines of a Agnostic theist or even a deist, depending on your degree of faith.

Quote:
I, for one, find it amusing that Buddhism is so hard for some to categorize (theistic or non-theistic). And Shinto might best be described as pan-theistic or animist.... its not non-theistic at all. Personally, I find it quite poetic in its lyrical description of the world and what motivates it.
Aye. Some people on the theist side went as far as denying it was a religion during some of the debates I've been in in.
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Old 2009-09-11, 17:55   Link #1755
npcomplete
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye, I'd recommend reading "The God Delusion" by Dawkins for a good exposition on the non-theistic categories.

I, for one, find it amusing that Buddhism is so hard for some to categorize (theistic or non-theistic). And Shinto might best be described as pan-theistic or animist.... its not non-theistic at all. Personally, I find it quite poetic in its lyrical description of the world and what motivates it.
(Yeah I've been meaning to pick up that book a while back. Good thing you reminded me)

I was probably conflating terms myself there .. although wikipedia does define Pantheism as non-theistic

I was thinking more along the lines of a requirement of a belief on certain deities for salvation. That there is a primary motivation to worship those deities. I suppose that later part fits in with Shintoism as well, although what is worshiped is basically arbitrary, or dependent on local customs.

However I wonder if theism covers how god-like the deities that are worshipped. Is animism a form of theism? I ask that because it seems many animists (like Shintoists) treat the supernatural as simply part of the natural world. In other words are there any requirements for a certain level of divinity for theism, since wikipedia defines it as:
Quote:
In a more specific sense, theism refers to a particular doctrine concerning the nature of God and his relationship to the universe.[3] Theism, in this specific sense, conceives of God as personal and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe.
And what if you're an animist and also a pantheist like you mentioned? Meaning you believe spirits and things exist and can have personal affects much like anything else "alive", but have no control over the world at large, (at least individually)? Likewise believing that there is/are no supreme personal god(s) involved in making constant decisions about the universe and rendering judgment for each individual?

Which brings us into the subject of Deism, which most of the founding fathers believed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Hmm... if you still believe in God you might something more on the lines of a Agnostic theist or even a deist, depending on your degree of faith.

Aye. Some people on the theist side went as far as denying it was a religion during some of the debates I've been in in.
It's easier to lay out a belief system than to classify it.
tl;dr - labels are hard?
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Old 2009-09-11, 18:25   Link #1756
synaesthetic
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Apatheistic. Yes, I just made that word up.

I don't care enough to bother with religion or faith. The here-and-now is rough enough to be busy worrying about what will happen after I die.
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Old 2009-09-11, 18:29   Link #1757
Gin
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Scientologist.
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Old 2009-09-11, 18:40   Link #1758
klowny
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Old 2009-09-11, 18:53   Link #1759
Kyero Fox
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Scientologist because in my opinion god and jesus are made up stories from the past to scare people from doing bad things. and other stuff. Humanity has been swindling each other since the stone ages.
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Old 2009-09-11, 19:03   Link #1760
Proto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npcomplete View Post
(Yeah I've been meaning to pick up that book a while back. Good thing you reminded me)

I was probably conflating terms myself there .. although wikipedia does define Pantheism as non-theistic

I was thinking more along the lines of a requirement of a belief on certain deities for salvation. That there is a primary motivation to worship those deities. I suppose that later part fits in with Shintoism as well, although what is worshiped is basically arbitrary, or dependent on local customs.

However I wonder if theism covers how god-like the deities that are worshipped. Is animism a form of theism? I ask that because it seems many animists (like Shintoists) treat the supernatural as simply part of the natural world. In other words are there any requirements for a certain level of divinity for theism, since wikipedia defines it as:

And what if you're an animist and also a pantheist like you mentioned? Meaning you believe spirits and things exist and can have personal affects much like anything else "alive", but have no control over the world at large, (at least individually)? Likewise believing that there is/are no supreme personal god(s) involved in making constant decisions about the universe and rendering judgment for each individual?

Which brings us into the subject of Deism, which most of the founding fathers believed:


It's easier to lay out a belief system than to classify it.
tl;dr - labels are hard?
Yet classification is useful in order to quickly know where do someone stands before getting involved in all the little details. Well, for some people its useful, myself included I guess in order to give a more meaningful direction to any discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Apatheistic. Yes, I just made that word up.

I don't care enough to bother with religion or faith. The here-and-now is rough enough to be busy worrying about what will happen after I die.
It actually exists already. Apatheism, or apathetic agnosticism. Also known as practical atheism.
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