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Old 2007-09-06, 03:06   Link #161
Nintendo
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Flow straight from the survival scrolls.

take that for whatever its worth.
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Old 2007-09-14, 11:36   Link #162
Hotaru Suzume
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Pagan. I win.

Shinto to be exact.
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Old 2007-09-14, 14:45   Link #163
Makito-chan
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I`m actually Catholic since most of my ancestors where Catholic, so basically I grew up with the Catholic faith.
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Old 2007-09-16, 00:47   Link #164
Diaboso
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I wonder what would happen if no one spoke of religion or showed anything to do with it to their children? would the children make up their own religion or go in search of one......
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Old 2007-09-16, 07:29   Link #165
hireshi
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I'm not religious but it would've been Buddhist.
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Old 2007-09-16, 08:04   Link #166
TakutoKun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaboso View Post
I wonder what would happen if no one spoke of religion or showed anything to do with it to their children? would the children make up their own religion or go in search of one......
Though this is sort of a hypothetical question, I would believe that, even though no one spoke about religion or showed anything(?), children would still be lead to something. Someone will always ask the questions:

- Where do we go after a certain time (after death)?
- How do we get there?
- Who started all of this?

Those types of questions lead to inquiries. It is human nature to ask questions.
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Old 2007-09-16, 09:05   Link #167
Hotaru Suzume
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaboso View Post
I wonder what would happen if no one spoke of religion or showed anything to do with it to their children? would the children make up their own religion or go in search of one......
I think anyone would look for or create a religion no matter what their upbringing is. My parents raised me as a Christian, but the idea of one omnipresent god isn't how it works for me, so I searched around and eventually took up Shinto.

Animism + polytheism FTW. xD
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Old 2007-09-16, 11:47   Link #168
ChainLegacy
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I have a Catholic background, and will probably go to a Jesuit college, but I myself am agnostic.
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Old 2007-09-16, 12:49   Link #169
Vidofnir
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I used to believe in a higher existance when i was a kid (but not a specific religion),
mostly because of parental influence. After spending some time thinking it all over and
pondering the meaning of life, I came to the conclusion that there can be no such thing
as a "creator". Other philosophies like reincarnation don't seem logical either to me.
So I've been an atheist for a couple years now.
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Old 2007-09-16, 14:19   Link #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewoud View Post
I think anyone would look for or create a religion no matter what their upbringing is. My parents raised me as a Christian, but the idea of one omnipresent god isn't how it works for me, so I searched around and eventually took up Shinto.

Animism + polytheism FTW. xD
I would disagree, as I was not raised into any religion (although both my were raised Catholic, they did not bring me up to belive in any religion), and I am, and pretty much always have been, an atheist.
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Old 2007-09-16, 16:11   Link #171
lenneal
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I am christan i worship the lord its just that i dont like going to chruch much cuz i get bored but besides all that i love to worship a higher power u have some one to pray to when u need and all thank when things work out and to pray for better days when things dont work out =)
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Old 2007-09-17, 00:03   Link #172
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by matradley View Post
Though this is sort of a hypothetical question, I would believe that, even though no one spoke about religion or showed anything(?), children would still be lead to something. Someone will always ask the questions:

- Where do we go after a certain time (after death)?
- How do we get there?
- Who started all of this?

Those types of questions lead to inquiries. It is human nature to ask questions.
Yes, but how many children would even consider those questions? Personally, I didn't care much about those even though I knew them as long as my memory still held. It's only the past 1-2 years that I find myself questioning the stuffs you mentioned.

Since that was off-topic...

I'm a Buddhist, although I already said that in a post before
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Old 2007-09-17, 00:40   Link #173
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I'm really surprised at the direction this thread has taken. Or should I say the lack of deviation it's maintained? I didn't have the time to reply when it was originally created, but since it's been bumped back up, I suppose it's a good time.

I have to begin my answer with the question, "What is religion?" A friend of mine wears a shirt with the message "There's no room in my relationship for a religion." I think that expresses the gist of where I stand on the subject, but there is no succinct way of expressing the important details. I will try best express my position by describing how I came to where I am now.

Trying to express having a relationship with God to a person who doesn't share the same without making yourself sound like a madman is, well... If it's possible, I'm really not sure how to do it. Call me crazy, or deluded, but it's very much like trying to express the concept of hearing to a deaf person.

I've had that relationship since I was a child, but I soon realized that not every one believes the same thing, even if they profess to be the same religion. How could denominations exist if they were all operating from the same source material?

At that time, my father and step-mother attended a very friendly Baptist church, and during the times I was with them, I went along (whether I wanted to or not). Reflecting on the wide-range of religious disagreement one day as I sat on a church pew after service, I said to the sweet, old lady next me, "I believe my parents always try to make the right decisions, and that's why they chose to be Baptist. But what do we, as Baptists, believe?"

She smiled sweetly and replied, "We just believe everything that's in the Bible. And we don't drink." And so my religious searching began there, when I decided that I would have to better understand what I believed. Little did she or I know that by taking her at her word I would come to many conclusions that, if stated openly, would make me very unpopular at that church (a situation I thankfully never faced).

As I began down the path of that study, though, I realized that I couldn't start with any assumptions. I couldn't just study what I believed, as I had to decide for myself what I believed, first! I had to start from the bottom and work up from there. I had to face the fact that any perceived relationship I had with God could be the result of sheer imagination, and I knew that I had to choose each and every one of my beliefs for myself, from my own best judgement, rather than picking between sets of beliefs espoused by others.

I started with the concept of a creator. Not minding any issues of human ancestry or the age of the earth, I admitted that everything being the way it is now could possibly be from sheer chance... but concluded that if the odds were that small, it would make more sense to do most reasoning from the presumption that there was a creator. That conclusion implied nothing about what that creator was or anything about its nature.

Beyond that, though, my reasoning can't really be shared by most. I had certain experiences that most don't. These experiences were very concrete things that I had no natural explanation for. What they had in common was that they all occurred in the context of "Christianity in practice". Though not things I could share with other people, it would have been intellectually dishonest of me to disregard them. It was upon reflecting on those experiences, and going through more of them, that I became comfortable and confident that my relationship with God wasn't merely my imagination. Based on that, I made many presumptions that I would constantly re-evaluate upon the reception of new information. Even if I was going to make the presumptions about religious truth, I couldn't accept any wholesale set of beliefs: every single aspect of what I was going to presume had to be supported. To put it as Vexx stated it so well, I set out to construct a viewpoint best explains the data I'd encountered, so long as new data didn't contradict it.

In my study of and experience with other religions, Christianity, and the religion from which it sprung, what we now call Judaism, seemed to be unique in many regards, ranging from the acceptance as canon and subsequent preservation of its religious texts to the style of miracles generally attributed to them. Nonetheless, it was undeniable that seemingly supernatural things happened amongst people of all religions. Then there were the arguments against Christianity and Judaism: Contradictions in the texts, valid questions about God ("If there exists a loving God, why is there suffering?"), the fact that spirituality--and even a relationship with God, existed outside of Christianity...

I couldn't find an answer that supported all the evidence in any non-Judeo-Christian religion. Weighing historical evidence and personal experience, I was inclined to say that Christianity was the answer... But try as I might, I couldn't find it in any denomination or belief system within Judaism or Christianity, either.

I did find, though, that if I disregarded all the masses in any religion who didn't truly believe or follow, or even understand their faith...
If I disregarded away all the cultural belief that had grown up around it...
If I didn't follow the human leaders of the faith as infallible, but as shepherds of varying scholarly reliability...
If, instead of interpreting bits and pieces via a modern, western mindset, I instead interpreted everything in context of its culture and history...
If I didn't read from it what I'd been told all my life that it said, but only what it actually said...
If I didn't believe something simply because it sounded nice, because I grew up hearing it or believing it, or because it seemed like a nice philosophy...

If I did all that, Judaism and Christianity following suddenly made a whole lot more sense. Not only that, but the context of the rest of the world, and all its other religions, also fits together with it much better.

I've found that most people who reject Christianity are instead rejecting what they think Christianity is. And who could blame them? After all, most professed Christians only believe in what they think their religion is--and the same could be said to the adherents of most religions. A bearded man in the sky and a hoofed red man with a pitchfork? Who came up with that? It's not part of my religion, I know that much. What I've found looks much more like traditional Judaism in worldview (if not completely in practice for me personally, since I'm not of Hebrew descent). And although I have a few beliefs and viewpoints I'm stuck on after all I've been through, I'm constantly re-evaluating what I believe--and frequently being corrected.

It isn't that Judaism and Christianity claim to have a monopoly on God and truth, despite what some of their adherents think--especially on the Christian side. After all, there are other religions that worship the same God, and even Judeo-Christian religious documents recognize that people can seek and find something even while not a part of Judaism/Christianity (most would be surprised to hear what Shinto has to do with Judaism, or what the Motilone BarÝ South American Indians had to do with Christianity). Instead, they claim to have certain truths that they should be sharing with the rest of the world. They've certainly done a lousy job at times--Judaism and Christianity's own religious texts demonstrate this the best, documenting corruption amongst its adherents and religious leaders more often than it documents them operating as they ought to be (I agree wholeheartedly with Vexx that religion--especially, though not only, its human component--should be up for criticism).

So yes, I am a Christian, although probably not as most would think of one. I see the adoption of faith without reasoning and understanding as dangerous, the reasoning of religion without a (perhaps subsequent) relationship as empty, and I see the condition of the heart as far more relevant than attendance of an institution's building. I don't follow a set of rules for behavior and thought, but have a relationship with some one that drives me to behave in certain ways out of love and respect. I won't tell you that you're wrong, but I will share with you what I've found to be true. I won't condemn you as being hellbound, but I'll share with you what I've found to be the only guarantee for eternal security as well as peace in the present, (not to mention the meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything).

All of that ends up being very different from how most people view Christianity. But with all of the above as a qualifying statement, I say that I am a Christian.

Last edited by Kyuusai; 2007-09-17 at 00:56.
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Old 2007-09-17, 00:49   Link #174
Ancient Death
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...I'm a Christian yet I'm suprised that there are lots of Atheist... but nothing I have againist you guys, so I will leave at that.
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Old 2007-09-17, 00:50   Link #175
Ancient Death
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Originally Posted by jtrog View Post
I'd have to say Anime is my religion at the moment. I wont go near a church or a hospital.. lol.
Why a hospital?
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Old 2007-09-17, 00:54   Link #176
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Quote:
Trying to express having a relationship with God to a person who doesn't share the same without making yourself sound like a madman is, well... If it's possible, I'm really not sure how to do it. Call me crazy, or deluded, but it's very much like trying to express the concept of hearing to a deaf person.
I'd try to word my analogies a bit more carefully next time... it does sound a bit offensive to an atheist like me (I know you mean no harm, but just in case...).

From reading your post, Kyuusai, I've come (kind of) to understand why does religion put me off... It's because it claims to know the truth. I'm not trying to be offensive here, and I don't want to start an argument, but that sole attitude is enough for me to frown at it.
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Old 2007-09-17, 01:02   Link #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
I'd try to word my analogies a bit more carefully next time... it does sound a bit offensive to an atheist like me (I know you mean no harm, but just in case...).
I think you're right that it might sound a bit offensive. It certainly wasn't my intention to be insulting, but to describe how hard it is to communicate a sense of something intangible to some one who doesn't share the experience. Please know that I'm not implying a deficiency on the part of the person who doesn't share the experience, but only trying to convey the idea that they haven't had that experience, and how that can make the person describing that sense seem like they have a case of the crazies.

I'm not sure of a better way of explaining it, but I will certainly adjust the analogy should I use it in the future to avoid it being interpreted as insulting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
From reading your post, Kyuusai, I've come (kind of) to understand why does religion put me off... It's because it claims to know the truth. I'm not trying to be offensive here, and I don't want to start an argument, but that sole attitude is enough for me to frown at it.
Don't worry, you aren't offensive at all. That's what offends me about most religious practice, myself. I can only claim to share the truth as best I've been able to determine. I do believe there are certain things that are true... but there are certainly reasons why, and simply because I believe something doesn't mean that I'm not seeking to understand it better. That is not an attitude shared by most of the religious world.
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Old 2007-09-17, 01:14   Link #178
Takeru
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Spoiler for for quote:

That actually makes a lot of sense, especially since the lesson taught at the church I attended today was pretty much "are you doing it because everyone else does, or because you acutally understand what you're believing." Placing the story in the context of a man going "I believe what my pastor believes", not knowing at all what he was actually into.

And to keep me on topic...once again, I am an Agnostic-Theist.
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Old 2007-09-17, 01:45   Link #179
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
From reading your post, Kyuusai, I've come (kind of) to understand why does religion put me off... It's because it claims to know the truth. I'm not trying to be offensive here, and I don't want to start an argument, but that sole attitude is enough for me to frown at it.
What about one that claims to know the truth (I think) while at the same time telling you to trust your direct experience more and pick [Kalama Sutta]

Personally, that's also something that turns me off from religion... And I believe to a majority of people, too.

I also think your point of view is right. This is not directing at you, but there are also a lot of atheists out there who are too offensive that they are no different from the religious radicals...
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Old 2007-09-17, 07:46   Link #180
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Religion is too bothersome, i'm Atheist.
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