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Old 2009-09-19, 04:06   Link #1861
Siddyus
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
^ When the hell did I say that?
Didnt you read your own post? lol

Also, learn to use the quote feature.
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Last edited by Siddyus; 2009-09-19 at 04:23.
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Old 2009-09-19, 04:17   Link #1862
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Then quote the part I said "remain ignorant" smart ass.
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Old 2009-09-19, 04:19   Link #1863
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Relax guys....


Regarding Strong Agnosticism Vs. Atheists and Theists, it really is simply about Facts vs. Theories, Practicality vs. Imagination, Inside the box vs. Outside the box, Ball vs. Spike, and Scientific Conservative vs. Scientific Flexibility---in other words, individual personalities/backgrounds.

I'm confused, so can everybody kindly answer this question: Can supernatural beings' existence be logically disproved? If so, how?
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Old 2009-09-19, 04:32   Link #1864
Siddyus
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Then quote the part I said "remain ignorant" smart ass.
Look who's the smart ass now.

If you read your own post you should be able to translate it into: Be Ignorant. Go figure. If you cant then I feel sorry for you. And, why should I quote it in the first place when you can read it just a few pages up? lol


Quote:
Plus remember "religion" has never done anything wrong. It's people who do wrong and twist religion (whichever specific one it is) and it's teachings to fit their purposes.
Very true. Anyway, i think it is interesting to see if there wasn't any religion to twist with in the first place right? Just a thought.

Quote:
I'm confused, so can everybody kindly answer this question: Can supernatural beings' existence be logically disproved? If so, how?
No, it cant be disproved nor can it be confirmed without proper scientific study. Anything supernatural will remain a mystery until one day we can finally confirm it. I hope so.
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Old 2009-09-19, 04:36   Link #1865
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
I'm confused, so can everybody kindly answer this question: Can supernatural beings' existence be logically disproved? If so, how?
Supernatural means "not part of the natural laws that govern the universe". Currently, science mentions that the same laws like gravity and electromagnetism apply to every corner of the universe. For a being to be supernatural, means it is not part of the universe. Thus, it can't be part of it, it can't be explained by it.

So, unless someone proves the existence of parallel universes and their interactivity and that the laws there are different, then there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of such beings.

In the story I wrote about God, Earth is a videogame and God is both programmer and player. This sort of makes a simplified example of what a parallel world or a supernatural being is. The characters don't see God, yet he interacts with them by clicking commands. He affects them, they don't affect him. Time flows differently as when he stops playing time freezes and he can always fastforward the game speed. The characters can never enter reality, nor they realize the limits of their own dimension. Thus God in a way does exist outside time and space and can affect the universe despite never being seen.
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Old 2009-09-19, 04:47   Link #1866
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Supernatural means "not part of the natural laws that govern the universe". Currently, science mentions that the same laws like gravity and electromagnetism apply to every corner of the universe. For a being to be supernatural, means it is not part of the universe. Thus, it can't be part of it, it can't be explained by it.
I think your wrong there. "Natural laws that govern the universe" has and cannot even BE defined. If the supernatural does exists, then that just twists the definition of the word "natural" itself. We really don't have any idea what true nature is...what we have is an accepted "reality"--a theory.


I didn't understand the relation of this topic to your "game" but your answer is No, no?
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Old 2009-09-19, 05:27   Link #1867
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It's no, it cannot disprove.
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Old 2009-09-19, 05:36   Link #1868
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Thus God in a way does exist outside time and space and can affect the universe despite never being seen.
Nothing, absolutely nothing can exist outside of time and space. There is time within a "stopped time". There is also space within a "no-space". One may be able to control time...but that entity will not be able to control "his/her" own time. As long as he operates (doesn't matter if everyone else doesn't), he's time moves.

Last edited by Cipher; 2009-09-19 at 05:57.
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Old 2009-09-19, 05:36   Link #1869
Siddyus
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I think your wrong there. "Natural laws that govern the universe" has and cannot even BE defined. If the supernatural does exists, then that just twists the definition of the word "natural" itself. We really don't have any idea what true nature is...what we have is an accepted "reality"--a theory.
Natural Law can be defined already as "a principle or body of laws considered as derived from nature, right reason, or religion and as ethically binding in human society."

I believe he mixed Universal Law with Natural Law.
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Old 2009-09-19, 05:43   Link #1870
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Originally Posted by Siddyus View Post
Natural Law can be defined already as "a principle or body of laws considered as derived from nature, right reason, or religion and as ethically binding in human society."

I believe he mixed Universal Law with Natural Law.
yes, but the existence of something that cannot be disproved, obstructs those "laws". They're merely "laws" for simplification and to create an order of things. Unless we truly disprove the "supernatural", we will never know what's "natural".
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Old 2009-09-19, 05:55   Link #1871
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yes, but the existence of something that cannot be disproved, obstructs those "laws". They're merely "laws" for simplification and to create an order of things. Unless we truly disprove the "supernatural", we will never know what's "natural".
Indeed. That is why we have a Universal Law.

Quote:
Nothing, absolutely nothing can exist outside of time and space. There is time within a "stopped time". There is also space within a "no-space". One may be able to control time...but that entity will not be able to control his/her own time. As he operates, he's time moves.
But nothing is impossible for a God right? If God really exists. Then as a God he has no time whatsoever. Nor is he affected by our laws. He is the God. He makes all the laws. etc etc
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:04   Link #1872
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Ok guys now you are going to the realm of false opposite matter (or whatever they call it). Many things exist and have their opposite term which does not exist. For example, real has as an opposite the unreal/fictional. Something that is real exists; something that is unreal does not. Yet, through fiction things that do not exist can come into existence. Like the airplane. It was fictional until it was invented.

Another example is light. Its opposite is darkness. Darkness does not exist. It is the absence of light. It is a state of the same phenomenon. This is also why they say Abrahamic religions are NOT dualistic. Good and evil are not two opposite and equal forces. The devil is not equal to God. Evil is actually the absence of good.

That means, unless we can be sure if through fiction something supernatural cannot be made natural, we have no right disproving it. I mean, television would seem like a crazy and impossible thing a few centuries ago. And no one predicted the internet or the cell phones to such degree and fast spread in any sci-fi scenario of the past. Such things were supernatural in a way because the technology and the mindset were not there.
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:04   Link #1873
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Originally Posted by Siddyus View Post
Indeed. That is why we have a Universal Law.
With humans and anything relating to "reality", there is nothing universal. That "Law" isn't "Universal" as you think it is. Its just a name to group a list of constant variables.

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But nothing is impossible for a God right? If God really exists. Then as a God he has no time whatsoever. Nor is he affected by our laws. He is the God. He makes all the laws. etc etc
"Nothing is impossible" is a paradox. There are always impossibilities. To theists: if god can truly do anything, what's the purpose of our existence? why does it take time for anything to happen? There is "our" laws, there is "his" laws. There is also "everyone's" laws...we just don't know these laws..perhaps we will never.
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:08   Link #1874
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"Nothing is impossible" is a paradox. There are always impossibilities.
Are you sure about this? I hear nothing is impossible. It is impossible for something to be impossible. There is no zero chances of something happening. Only astronomically close to zero.
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:10   Link #1875
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Ok guys now you are going to the realm of false opposite matter (or whatever they call it). Many things exist and have their opposite term which does not exist. For example, real has as an opposite the unreal/fictional. Something that is real exists; something that is unreal does not. Yet, through fiction things that do not exist can come into existence. Like the airplane. It was fictional until it was invented.

Another example is light. Its opposite is darkness. Darkness does not exist. It is the absence of light. It is a state of the same phenomenon. This is also why they say Abrahamic religions are NOT dualistic. Good and evil are not two opposite and equal forces. The devil is not equal to God. Evil is actually the absence of good.

That means, unless we can be sure if through fiction something supernatural cannot be made natural, we have no right disproving it. I mean, television would seem like a crazy and impossible thing a few centuries ago. And no one predicted the internet or the cell phones to such degree and fast spread in any sci-fi scenario of the past. Such things were supernatural in a way because the technology and the mindset were not there.
To be more precise, they weren't "supernatural", they were undiscovered. As crazy as it may seem, I can say flying motorcycles are natural. Like TV, they were natural even before they weren't innovated.
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:13   Link #1876
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Are you sure about this? I hear nothing is impossible. It is impossible for something to be impossible. There is no zero chances of something happening. Only astronomically close to zero.
haha...I can argue this with you......there are 100%'s! just like the one on my classmate's test paper..
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:15   Link #1877
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
To be more precise, they weren't "supernatural", they were undiscovered. As crazy as it may seem, I can say flying motorcycles are natural. Like TV, they were natural even before they weren't innovated.
Yes but spliting the atom was also something impossible up until 60 years ago. So was to consider time and space to actually connect in one. Furthermore, nobody could accept such theories prior to their innovation. They were considered supernatural. Things we consider supernatural today may not be tommorow.
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:31   Link #1878
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Yes but spliting the atom was also something impossible up until 60 years ago. So was to consider time and space to actually connect in one. Furthermore, nobody could accept such theories prior to their innovation. They were considered supernatural. Things we consider supernatural today may not be tommorow.
"Considered Supernatural" but in reality they are not. ..... (This is coming from the more general idea:"Believing is not the same as Knowing")
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:34   Link #1879
Siddyus
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"Nothing is impossible" is a paradox. There are always impossibilities. To theists: if god can truly do anything, what's the purpose of our existence? why does it take time for anything to happen? There is "our" laws, there is "his" laws. There is also "everyone's" laws...we just don't know these laws..perhaps we will never.
Because of our so-called sin. Had Adam and Eve not committed any sin. Then everything would be perfect right now. Thats what I hear from most christians if I ask them the same question.

Quote:
Yes but spliting the atom was also something impossible up until 60 years ago. So was to consider time and space to actually connect in one. Furthermore, nobody could accept such theories prior to their innovation. They were considered supernatural. Things we consider supernatural today may not be tommorow.
I believe there is a difference from the word supernatural and theory/Hypothesis.
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Old 2009-09-19, 06:38   Link #1880
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Because of our so-called sin. Had Adam and Eve not committed any sin. Then everything would be perfect right now. Thats what I hear from most christians if I ask them the same question.
I'd like to not get "christiany" here. That religion already has too much arguments and contradictory roots.

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I believe there is a difference from the word supernatural and theory/Hypothesis.
There is the spelling and there is the meaning..so of course there is a difference..larger than even how you believe it is. On a more serious note, it is because we do not know what is supernatural and what is natural that we create Theories and Hypothesis's.
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