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View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 11 25.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 18 40.91%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 22.73%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 9.09%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 2.27%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-08-19, 23:13   Link #121
Rava
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Well, let's see the active teleporters we have here.

Fate, who we can assume teleported to Scaglietti's lair.

Vita

Signum, who is fighting Zest.

Zafira, Shamal, and Arf, who are included for completeness sake only since they are considered out of the fight.

Yuuno

Lutecia

TSAB ships.

Out of all of these teleporters, the only ones who have teleported more than just themselves are Lutecia, TSAB ships, and the trio of Yuuno, Shamal AND Arf all working at the same time, shoving the defensive program of the Book of Darkness up a giant space tube to be ejected in front of the Arthra.

So if they don't mind stranding the Forwards and Nanoha, I'm sure they can teleport.
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Old 2007-08-19, 23:22   Link #122
Serenity85
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has anybody else notice that the preview points at a really pissed off Lutecia (shes got the "I'm gonna beat the s*** out of you for some reason" (my guess is they're still trying the befriend via chat then force technique which is getting on Lutecia's nerve^^ The youngings need to the learn blast first befriend later technique perfected by Nanoaha^^)

In terms of how the last eps will work out fight wise, my bets is will get high focus per battle per ep. (this ep set up the fights but jumping from fight for 4-5 eps could get confusing)

ep 21 - Caro/Erio vs Lutecia?Garyu (preview has heavy focus on them, with little tid bits for the others)

22-26 are up in the air as we havn't seen previews yet, but my bets are:

ep 22 - Subaru vs Ginga
ep 23 - Teana vs Nouve/Wendi/Number 6
ep 24 - Vita vs ? (essentially my bets is will see her battle to the reactor whether she gets there is up in the air)
ep 25 - Fate vs Scag
ep 26 - Nanoha and Vivio + Final battle

A couple of these could be clumped together like Vita's allowing ep 25 be Nanoha, Vivio moment and ep 26 being the final fight

any other ideas?
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Old 2007-08-19, 23:28   Link #123
Chaos2Frozen
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@Serenity85

Don't forget that there are still 2 Numbers in 'Cradle' for Nanoha to deal with... And she has to do it under AMF conditions.

And if traditions hold, there won't be any fighting in the last episode

Vita probably won't have that much focus if all she'll be facing off is Stealth Drones.

I have high hopes for Team Lightning, I don't want them to be upstaged by Team Stars.
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Old 2007-08-19, 23:33   Link #124
Mirificus
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
Well, let's see the active teleporters we have here.

...

Out of all of these teleporters, the only ones who have teleported more than just themselves are Lutecia, TSAB ships, and the trio of Yuuno, Shamal AND Arf all working at the same time, shoving the defensive program of the Book of Darkness up a giant space tube to be ejected in front of the Arthra.

So if they don't mind stranding the Forwards and Nanoha, I'm sure they can teleport.
No one's suggested teleporting them out of their current predicament. If they were going to take advantage of the teleporters, they should have done it earlier, en masse, so they could all teleport in as a group.
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Old 2007-08-19, 23:33   Link #125
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Shamal's mainly just the doctor anyway.
She could've helped quite a lot as a mobile teleportation device. Without wasting time on flying Numbers and Jail could've been taken care of by combined RF6 forces, and then all attention could be turned to the Cradle.
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Old 2007-08-19, 23:44   Link #126
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Granted that super-nimble use of teleportation would give RF6 a big advantage. On the other hand, you guys are missing the point as far as which threat to confront.

They -can't ignore the Cradle-, because it's a "you all lose" situation if it goes where it's going. Even if you're callous enough to write off Vivio (and have the ten-ton testicles to confront Nanoha afterwards), you can't even assume that the big guns will work on it - if the AMF's powerful enough, it's entirely possible that Hayate's artillery shooting (or an Arc-en-Ciel) would simply fail. And if you're NOT prepared to write Vivio off, you have to get her out now, now, now, because the TSAB as a whole will absolutely kill her off to stop the Cradle - hell, Nanoha and Fate have been in the targeting zone of an Arc shot before, as well as all Nanoha's family, so she oughta know that much.

You can't let Scag go unmolested, because if he pulls the quick fade, next time you've got 20 or 40 or 100 Numbers coming at you instead of a dozen. And you need to find out who the hell his sponsor is, right quick. You don't necessarily have to punch him out instantly - so you certainly can't justify putting your whole force in there - but you do need to pin him in there. There's also the chance of a "big victory" if he sent out all his mobile forces - decapitate the command center, and you might be able to force a surrender (or turn off) the rest of the forces.

You can't ignore the drones. Not only is it really the only thing Hayate can do well (she ain't an indoor fighter, man), but if you leave them unmolested, they'll tear up your other forces and civilian infrastructure.

You COULD afford to let the loose party of Numbers go, sure. But you can't really utilize the forces it frees up for any of your other objectives... they can't fight in the AMF in the Cradle, you can't afford to send them gift-wrapped to Jail, and they're not air-mobile enough to take on the drones (possibly excepting Caro, but Voltaire is one of your final reserves, and they're probably ready for him given ep 17.) So what else are you going to do with them? You can't even pretend to be "holding them in reserve", really, if all the committed forces you have are in areas you can't send your forwards into ANYWAY. You engage the loose Numbers with them, or you tell them to stay home, and that's all there is to it. (And here we're confronted with the stupidity of putting Nanoha and Fate in squads with buck rookies...)

There's an additional danger in getting too fancy with teleportation - especially if you know your enemy is fiddling around with anti-whatever fields. Say they all decided it would be a good idea to rescue Vivio quickly, and they all jumped in... and the AMF pins them all to the Cradle. Sure, they'll rock the Cradle that much faster, but in the meantime Jail gets away, the Numbers hit their objective unobstructed, and the drones tear the ever-loving hell out of a lot of your comrades (and civilians!)

Of course, even if you -can- teleport away, that doesn't mean that engaged forces will. If Nanoha and Fate are two minutes away from pulling Vivio out, you might tell them "we need one of you here right now or the Numbers are going to kill the high command"... but they might not actually go! (Not that killing the TSAB high command wouldn't be a beneficial thing in the long run, idiots that they are...) Disengaging from the enemy is always a tricky business. Setting up a defensive plan where you have to punch out one force, get clear of them, and wheel on another is always tricky... you're quite likely to be unable to disengage, and either get pinned between two forces, or held down while the second force goes off and has a party in your rear area.

(One other point - it's just as dumb for Scag to split off the Numbers, Lulu, and Zest as it is for Hayate to divert forces to stop them. That much more defense would really firm up either his personal guard or the Cradle's close-in defense, or both. So that implies that their objective is important enough to open HIS forces up to a defeat in detail - especially since he can't reasonably expect reinforcements, whereas RF6 will inevitably be reinforced by heavier forces as TSAB gets their head out of their rear.

Unless they can. What the heck is an Einherjar, anyway? Must be pretty cool if Regius is putting his faith in it rather than traditional mages or whatever. If Regius is actually the sponsor of Scag and friends, then it's entirely possible that his trump card will come in on the other side. (Then again, isn't that more unlikely now? If he had the support of the high council, why have Duo kill them off?) That's still our real wild card here, but it's almost certain that they (it?) will show up before the end.
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Old 2007-08-19, 23:49   Link #127
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
@Serenity85

Don't forget that there are still 2 Numbers in 'Cradle' for Nanoha to deal with... And she has to do it under AMF conditions.

And if traditions hold, there won't be any fighting in the last episode

Vita probably won't have that much focus if all she'll be facing off is Stealth Drones.

I have high hopes for Team Lightning, I don't want them to be upstaged by Team Stars.
Technically, it's just one since Quattro's not a combat-type, and unless Deici's reload speed had been upped, she's not really suited for urban shooting, but we'll see.

Elio will probably get the shaft of the Lightning since well...he fights Garyuu. Where's the goddamn drama in that? I expect Garyuu to be defeated or something next episode, or at least something happened to piss Lutecia off. I think there was a light or so sparkling when Lutecia gave the FU look... White Sky King summoning?

Vita's fight seem done for most parts. Even if she wins, chances are she won't reach the Reactor nor fight anymore. Now we just need the "OMG that signal loss ...It...can't...be!" to complete the drama package.

Depending on Jail, Fate's fight would probably last 2 episodes while Nanoha's 1 not counting possibly Vivio. There's still the need for OMG REVELATION for Jail and Vivio, which would probably tip the drama scale and such before decisions decisions. Subaru and Teana...it really depends, but I expect all current underdog and last major revalation problems to be finished by the end of episode 24. Signum's too, would probably last 2 episodes.

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Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV View Post
(One other point - it's just as dumb for Scag to split off the Numbers, Lulu, and Zest as it is for Hayate to divert forces to stop them. That much more defense would really firm up either his personal guard or the Cradle's close-in defense, or both. So that implies that their objective is important enough to open HIS forces up to a defeat in detail - especially since he can't reasonably expect reinforcements, whereas RF6 will inevitably be reinforced by heavier forces as TSAB gets their head out of their rear.

Unless they can. What the heck is an Einherjar, anyway? Must be pretty cool if Regius is putting his faith in it rather than traditional mages or whatever. If Regius is actually the sponsor of Scag and friends, then it's entirely possible that his trump card will come in on the other side. (Then again, isn't that more unlikely now? If he had the support of the high council, why have Duo kill them off?) That's still our real wild card here, but it's almost certain that they (it?) will show up before the end.
Well, Scag has no control over Zest/Agito whatsoever, so he's moot. Lulu is pointless near Cradle since she can't really fly and AMF would best her inside the Cradle. Numbers...well, the division is a little strange, but then again, considering the lack of Number versatility, he's probably making do, since he seems to value his laboratory to the point he did not escape at all last episode, while still needing Cradle defenses alongside other things. But yeah.

Eihenjar is DISABLED. That stupid-surface-to-air weapon is dealt with and done.

And the reason he killed off his sponsors is because by awakening Cradle, he backstabbed them, and since they clearly won't help him anymore, why let them live?
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Old 2007-08-19, 23:49   Link #128
Serenity85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
@Serenity85

Don't forget that there are still 2 Numbers in 'Cradle' for Nanoha to deal with... And she has to do it under AMF conditions.

And if traditions hold, there won't be any fighting in the last episode

Vita probably won't have that much focus if all she'll be facing off is Stealth Drones.

I have high hopes for Team Lightning, I don't want them to be upstaged by Team Stars.
lol I forgot about the tradition of last ep being recap lol. And when I said Nanoha/Vivio moments included a fight with numbers (theres no way she can just walk in and save Vivio without a fight. ok then 21-23 will contain the forward fights with vita interspursed leaving 24-25 for Fate, Nanoha and Signum (forgot to include her in my first post battles tieing in Scags ultimate defeat and the final fight^^ Scag and Vivio shouldn't be finished till 25 and Zest and signum must get a fair bit of focus but not on the same scale so 24 should conclude their fight. If they spread focus out correctly we may not see any or much of their fight till the end giving us our forwards in their shinning moments^^

At least this is how I would like things to go. We get action from all key players with no one getting shafted
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:04   Link #129
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As things stands things does not look good for both Vita and Teana with both of them wounded and one seriously at that. While I do not think any shafting is going to occur given how season one and two have turned out I'm getting bad vibs from Vita at least.

I do hope Signum and Zest does finish their fight about ep 23, that gives more time for us to see Hex Goddess Hayate in unison mode .
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:04   Link #130
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Spoiler for 22-23:
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:07   Link #131
An Hero in Disguise
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Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV View Post
Granted that super-nimble use of teleportation would give RF6 a big advantage. On the other hand, you guys are missing the point as far as which threat to confront.
Not simply to confront but to deal with. As far as we see now their separated forces aren't making progress that quick. If they started by going all-out against the Numbers in the city / Lulu team this threat would've been taken care of already most probably. Then they have Jail and the Cradle left, and if they certainly want to take them out at once, they can separate the forces similar to the way they did but with Signum going to the Cradle while Shamal teleports Fate and the Forwards to Scaglietti's Lab.

Quote:
They -can't ignore the Cradle-, because it's a "you all lose" situation if it goes where it's going. Even if you're callous enough to write off Vivio (and have the ten-ton testicles to confront Nanoha afterwards), you can't even assume that the big guns will work on it - if the AMF's powerful enough, it's entirely possible that Hayate's artillery shooting (or an Arc-en-Ciel) would simply fail. And if you're NOT prepared to write Vivio off, you have to get her out now, now, now, because the TSAB as a whole will absolutely kill her off to stop the Cradle - hell, Nanoha and Fate have been in the targeting zone of an Arc shot before, as well as all Nanoha's family, so she oughta know that much.
I doubt that Arc-en-Ciel would fail, at least while the Cradle didn't reach its designated point where it should obtain a power boost, but whatever. It was pointed out several times already that going after all targets at once doesn't necessarily mean the fastest way to succeed.

Quote:
You can't let Scag go unmolested, because if he pulls the quick fade, next time you've got 20 or 40 or 100 Numbers coming at you instead of a dozen. And you need to find out who the hell his sponsor is, right quick. You don't necessarily have to punch him out instantly - so you certainly can't justify putting your whole force in there - but you do need to pin him in there. There's also the chance of a "big victory" if he sent out all his mobile forces - decapitate the command center, and you might be able to force a surrender (or turn off) the rest of the forces.
He didn't move from his place since it was discovered, so a half an hour delay to defeat the Numbers/Lulu team won't change much. And I can't understand why you're afraid to send Forwards to confront Jail.

Quote:
You can't ignore the drones. Not only is it really the only thing Hayate can do well (she ain't an indoor fighter, man), but if you leave them unmolested, they'll tear up your other forces and civilian infrastructure.
Hayate can keep doing that if she really has no other uses.

Quote:
You COULD afford to let the loose party of Numbers go, sure. But you can't really utilize the forces it frees up for any of your other objectives... they can't fight in the AMF in the Cradle, you can't afford to send them gift-wrapped to Jail, and they're not air-mobile enough to take on the drones (possibly excepting Caro, but Voltaire is one of your final reserves, and they're probably ready for him given ep 17.) So what else are you going to do with them? You can't even pretend to be "holding them in reserve", really, if all the committed forces you have are in areas you can't send your forwards into ANYWAY. You engage the loose Numbers with them, or you tell them to stay home, and that's all there is to it. (And here we're confronted with the stupidity of putting Nanoha and Fate in squads with buck rookies...)
Why can't the Forwards be sent against Jail as well once the Numbers party is obliterated?

Quote:
Unless they can. What the heck is an Einherjar, anyway? Must be pretty cool if Regius is putting his faith in it rather than traditional mages or whatever. If Regius is actually the sponsor of Scag and friends, then it's entirely possible that his trump card will come in on the other side. (Then again, isn't that more unlikely now? If he had the support of the high council, why have Duo kill them off?) That's still our real wild card here, but it's almost certain that they (it?) will show up before the end.
I guess we won't hear about Enherjar anymore.
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:16   Link #132
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After all, there's such thing as a AAA ranked not being able to fly...
Schach ...
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:23   Link #133
Mirificus
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Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV View Post
(One other point - it's just as dumb for Scag to split off the Numbers, Lulu, and Zest as it is for Hayate to divert forces to stop them. That much more defense would really firm up either his personal guard or the Cradle's close-in defense, or both. So that implies that their objective is important enough to open HIS forces up to a defeat in detail - especially since he can't reasonably expect reinforcements, whereas RF6 will inevitably be reinforced by heavier forces as TSAB gets their head out of their rear.
Agreed but I'd rather take a risk that they're diversionary attacks and make sure I win at the Cradle and Jail's lab.

Quote:
Granted that super-nimble use of teleportation would give RF6 a big advantage. On the other hand, you guys are missing the point as far as which threat to confront.
If you try to secure everywhere at once, none of those areas will be secure.

1) Jail
2) Cradle/Vivio
3) Drones
4) Numbers

Not all of those need immediate attention. The damage that the Cradle can do probably far outweighs any damage the drones and numbers can do to the city. The same principles of concentration and economy of force apply to Jail's forces. The more drones and numbers busy destroying buildings, the less forces Jail has to defend his lab and the Cradle.

Quote:
You can't let Scag go unmolested, because if he pulls the quick fade, next time you've got 20 or 40 or 100 Numbers coming at you instead of a dozen. And you need to find out who the hell his sponsor is, right quick. You don't necessarily have to punch him out instantly - so you certainly can't justify putting your whole force in there - but you do need to pin him in there. There's also the chance of a "big victory" if he sent out all his mobile forces - decapitate the command center, and you might be able to force a surrender (or turn off) the rest of the forces.
I think the situation does warrant taking him out as fast as possible.

Quote:
You can't ignore the drones. Not only is it really the only thing Hayate can do well (she ain't an indoor fighter, man), but if you leave them unmolested, they'll tear up your other forces and civilian infrastructure.
The only drones that RF6 should be concerned with are the drones around the Cradle and Jail's lab. The rest can wait for the follow on forces.

Quote:
You COULD afford to let the loose party of Numbers go, sure. But you can't really utilize the forces it frees up for any of your other objectives... they can't fight in the AMF in the Cradle, you can't afford to send them gift-wrapped to Jail, and they're not air-mobile enough to take on the drones (possibly excepting Caro, but Voltaire is one of your final reserves, and they're probably ready for him given ep 17.) So what else are you going to do with them? You can't even pretend to be "holding them in reserve", really, if all the committed forces you have are in areas you can't send your forwards into ANYWAY. You engage the loose Numbers with them, or you tell them to stay home, and that's all there is to it. (And here we're confronted with the stupidity of putting Nanoha and Fate in squads with buck rookies...)
I disagree. Letting the numbers run around the city is a good economy of force. If the forwards are capable of taking on numbers, they should be taking on the ones defending Jail's lab.

Quote:
Of course, even if you -can- teleport away, that doesn't mean that engaged forces will. If Nanoha and Fate are two minutes away from pulling Vivio out, you might tell them "we need one of you here right now or the Numbers are going to kill the high command"... but they might not actually go! (Not that killing the TSAB high command wouldn't be a beneficial thing in the long run, idiots that they are...) Disengaging from the enemy is always a tricky business. Setting up a defensive plan where you have to punch out one force, get clear of them, and wheel on another is always tricky... you're quite likely to be unable to disengage, and either get pinned between two forces, or held down while the second force goes off and has a party in your rear area.
Teleporting should at least help with the initial deployments like sending the forwards to Jail's HQ. It would be ideal if the forwards alone could secure Jail but they'd probably need at least one Ace. The remaining forces could be teleported close to the Cradle. Ideally, there would be a teleporter mage accompanying the Ace to Jail's HQ so they could teleport the Ace out to the Cradle once Jail is secure. In either case, the HQ combat would be over faster and let Fate head to the Cradle sooner.

Quote:
They -can't ignore the Cradle-, because it's a "you all lose" situation if it goes where it's going. Even if you're callous enough to write off Vivio (and have the ten-ton testicles to confront Nanoha afterwards), you can't even assume that the big guns will work on it - if the AMF's powerful enough, it's entirely possible that Hayate's artillery shooting (or an Arc-en-Ciel) would simply fail. And if you're NOT prepared to write Vivio off, you have to get her out now, now, now, because the TSAB as a whole will absolutely kill her off to stop the Cradle - hell, Nanoha and Fate have been in the targeting zone of an Arc shot before, as well as all Nanoha's family, so she oughta know that much.
Nanoha, Vita, Signum, Rein would be free to concentrate overwhelming combat power against the numbers in the city and defeat them so they won't be able to reinforce the Cradle. Once the numbers are defeated decisively, they could start the offensive on the Cradle.
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:25   Link #134
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Originally Posted by Mirificus View Post
No one's suggested teleporting them out of their current predicament. If they were going to take advantage of the teleporters, they should have done it earlier, en masse, so they could all teleport in as a group.
You're completely missing the point.

NONE of the teleporters have teleported as a group or demonstrated such an ability to do so other than in a TSAB ship or via Lutecia. And out of all of the teleporters period, the only ones who have even shown the ability to teleport someone other than himself or herself are Yuuno (over a short distance) or Yuuno, Arf, AND Shamal working together. If you don't have a ship it's pretty plain that it's not a common skill. Nanoha never teleports herself. Neither does Hayate.
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:26   Link #135
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Why can't the Forwards be sent against Jail as well once the Numbers party is obliterated?
Seems like it won't be that easy for the Forwards to obliterate the Numbers. And if, by that time, Fate still has trouble with Jail's defense, I don't think the Forwards will make much of a difference.
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:29   Link #136
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Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV View Post
Granted that super-nimble use of teleportation would give RF6 a big advantage. On the other hand, you guys are missing the point as far as which threat to confront.

They -can't ignore the Cradle-,
Nobody's ignoring it. But we are putting it last in our engagement sequence because it is the scenario with the most unknowns.

Quote:
because it's a "you all lose" situation if it goes where it's going.
And if I send insufficient forces and they are rendered ineffective, I lose too.

Quote:
Even if you're callous enough to write off Vivio (and have the ten-ton testicles to confront Nanoha afterwards),
Honestly, I don't understand why Nanoha does not blame Hayate for what happened... if she had evaced Vivio to a more secure location, we wouldn't be having Ep18-26!

Quote:
you can't even assume that the big guns will work on it - if the AMF's powerful enough, it's entirely possible that Hayate's artillery shooting (or an Arc-en-Ciel) would simply fail.
If it is of that power class, there's nothing anyone can do. To fight, one has to assume his attacks will at least be somewhat effective.

Quote:
And if you're NOT prepared to write Vivio off, you have to get her out now, now, now, because the TSAB as a whole will absolutely kill her off to stop the Cradle - hell, Nanoha and Fate have been in the targeting zone of an Arc shot before, as well as all Nanoha's family, so she oughta know that much.
Which is as it should be. Vivio is expendable, even if Nanoha mama doesn't think that way. Remind Nanoha mama whose fault it really is Vivio is in the enemy's hands and threatening the world...

Also, again, by doing the Cradle last they can put all their resources into engaging its uncertainties, thus offering the best probability of success and the shortest time. It is the choice between having 3 hours (before the fleet arrives) with only 2 guys (6 man-hours, not counting nice factors like N-square) at the problem and 2 hours with 5 guys (10-man hours) at the problem,. Honestly, most of us will choose the latter.

Quote:
You can't let Scag go unmolested, because if he pulls the quick fade, next time you've got 20 or 40 or 100 Numbers coming at you instead of a dozen.
If he can do that easily, we'd have had 20-100 Numbers against us this time. Just by wrecking his operations, I can end the short term threat and then slowly dig him out again.

Quote:
And you need to find out who the hell his sponsor is, right quick. You don't necessarily have to punch him out instantly - so you certainly can't justify putting your whole force in there - but you do need to pin him in there. There's also the chance of a "big victory" if he sent out all his mobile forces - decapitate the command center, and you might be able to force a surrender (or turn off) the rest of the forces.
Pin? Who's pinning whom? While Scarlietti's defense pins down your inadequate assault force, he can run outta the back door! Or maybe he doesn't have to run because his defenses have killed off your assault force with minimal losses! If you storm him, even after taking a few minutes to one-turn-kill the ground-pounding Numbers, you might be able to blow past his defense and get him before he manages to make it all the way to his door!

Quote:
You can't ignore the drones. Not only is it really the only thing Hayate can do well (she ain't an indoor fighter, man), but if you leave them unmolested, they'll tear up your other forces and civilian infrastructure.
We are talking a planet at risk. At this point, a few buildings and battalions are nothing.

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So what else are you going to do with them? You can't even pretend to be "holding them in reserve", really, if all the committed forces you have are in areas you can't send your forwards into ANYWAY. You engage the loose Numbers with them, or you tell them to stay home, and that's all there is to it. (And here we're confronted with the stupidity of putting Nanoha and Fate in squads with buck rookies...)
You send them where everyone else is going. First, you send everyone against the Numbers. Then you send them against Jail (the Forwards can either mop up the city fight or assist in this assault). Finally, you send them across the Cradle. To be fair, the unexpected AMF field may well be bad news for them in the final case, but we are evaluating process, not result.

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There's an additional danger in getting too fancy with teleportation - especially if you know your enemy is fiddling around with anti-whatever fields. Say they all decided it would be a good idea to rescue Vivio quickly,
In which case, they deserve to lose for their hotheaded stupidity. The Cradle should be the last target and definitely not be the first. It is the most uncertain question on the test and it will be impossible to make a time estimate to completion. You start people off on easy questions like the ground-pounding Numbers that are solved quickly, minimizing loss of combat coefficient, time and boosting confidence. What works in test-taking works here too.

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Disengaging from the enemy is always a tricky business. Setting up a defensive plan where you have to punch out one force, get clear of them, and wheel on another is always tricky... you're quite likely to be unable to disengage, and either get pinned between two forces, or held down while the second force goes off and has a party in your rear area.
Wrong thought. Understand this. We are not "disengaging" from anything or on a "defensive" plan. We are the guys on the offense. His guys desperately try to disengage from our concentrated fist, We don't disengage. We overrun them in turn as they try to disengage, so we don't have to "disengage" from anything except our enemy's corpses, and then we all go solve that Cradle problem and with luck bring home our little Vivio.

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So that implies that their objective is important enough to open HIS forces up to a defeat in detail
Which is why I'm going to hit those Ground Pounding numbers headed to god knows where while I can see them running...
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:33   Link #137
Mirificus
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Join Date: May 2007
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
You're completely missing the point.

NONE of the teleporters have teleported as a group or demonstrated such an ability to do so other than in a TSAB ship or via Lutecia. And out of all of the teleporters period, the only ones who have even shown the ability to teleport someone other than himself or herself are Yuuno (over a short distance) or Yuuno, Arf, AND Shamal working together. If you don't have a ship it's pretty plain that it's not a common skill. Nanoha never teleports herself. Neither does Hayate.
All true but they have a whole fleet of TSAB ships. They could get teleported to the TSAB ships using the TSAB teleporters and then use those to teleport in to the objective. The only question is how fast the teleporters work and their range.
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:35   Link #138
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
You're completely missing the point.

NONE of the teleporters have teleported as a group or demonstrated such an ability to do so other than in a TSAB ship or via Lutecia. And out of all of the teleporters period, the only ones who have even shown the ability to teleport someone other than himself or herself are Yuuno (over a short distance) or Yuuno, Arf, AND Shamal working together. If you don't have a ship it's pretty plain that it's not a common skill. Nanoha never teleports herself. Neither does Hayate.
I don't think anybody reasonably thinks the two of them hadn't picked up this useful, common skill over 10 years of service. I bet Seven Arcs will be destroyed if they tried to imply the two of them don't know it.

For another thing, they do have a very beautiful ship, the Asura.

Shamal was transporting one-third of a very large mass (the Book of Darkness). It stands to reason that a few humans ain't a big pain.

Even if I agree to this asinine scenario, at the very very least the guys who can teleport can still move around to weigh the efforts, speeding them up in turn.
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:40   Link #139
Rava
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by Mirificus View Post
All true but they do have TSAB ships. They could get teleported to the TSAB ships using the TSAB teleporters and then use those to teleport in to the objective.
And judging from the fact that they haven't in addition to all the other previous instances of teleportation, it's safe to conclude that the range of the TSAB ship teleporters is not good enough to do that, since the ships are all still "on the way" at the speed of plot to the Cradle. After all, teleportation still took time to get to the destination (like the whole WTH reaction to the masked twins showing up on two different worlds a lot faster than expected in A's).
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Old 2007-08-20, 00:42   Link #140
arkhangelsk
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Join Date: Jul 2007
We are not talking interdimensional transport. We are talking intradimensional transport using the Asura's very close by transporters.
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