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Old 2009-06-26, 10:01   Link #301
Magnus N
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Originally Posted by Gin View Post
i think the best example of this was aizen trying to use a lvl 90ish (dont remember exact level) kidou on komamura and failing.
Ye, still, damn did it pack a punch, only a third of its power and it still knocked Koma to the ground hard
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Old 2009-06-26, 13:22   Link #302
sayde
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To be honest, the fact that he messed up that lvl 90 hadou spell only makes him seem that much more powerful IMO. It's as if KT said, even his screw-ups are dangerous. Especially since the power behind a kidou spell relies directly on the power of it's user. In other words, the same exact spells deal different amounts of damage depending on who's casting them. So in essence, a lvl 90 hadou spell *from Aizen* is strong enough to OHKO captain class opponents -- even at 1/3rd it's power. It's not as if the spell itself cast by anyone at 1/3rd it's power would have the same effect.

Last edited by sayde; 2009-06-26 at 13:52.
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Old 2009-06-26, 14:46   Link #303
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
To be honest, the fact that he messed up that lvl 90 hadou spell only makes him seem that much more powerful IMO. It's as if KT said, even his screw-ups are dangerous. Especially since the power behind a kidou spell relies directly on the power of it's user. In other words, the same exact spells deal different amounts of damage depending on who's casting them. So in essence, a lvl 90 hadou spell *from Aizen* is strong enough to OHKO captain class opponents -- even at 1/3rd it's power. It's not as if the spell itself cast by anyone at 1/3rd it's power would have the same effect.
Renji's kido screw-ups are dangerous too )
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Old 2009-06-26, 15:00   Link #304
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Renji's kido screw-ups are dangerous too )
mostly just to himself though

also there is a bit of a difference between screwing up a top level spell while still annihilating your target and blowing yourself up with a spell they learned in year one shinigami school.
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Old 2009-06-26, 19:36   Link #305
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
To be honest, the fact that he messed up that lvl 90 hadou spell only makes him seem that much more powerful IMO. It's as if KT said, even his screw-ups are dangerous. Especially since the power behind a kidou spell relies directly on the power of it's user. In other words, the same exact spells deal different amounts of damage depending on who's casting them. So in essence, a lvl 90 hadou spell *from Aizen* is strong enough to OHKO captain class opponents -- even at 1/3rd it's power. It's not as if the spell itself cast by anyone at 1/3rd it's power would have the same effect.
i dont think it made him seem more powerful, but it made him seem like a better villain, without that mistake he was completely perfect and untouchable which just makes for a boring villain
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Renji's kido screw-ups are dangerous too )

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Originally Posted by kamyu View Post
mostly just to himself though

also there is a bit of a difference between screwing up a top level spell while still annihilating your target and blowing yourself up with a spell they learned in year one shinigami school.
spells he was supposed to learn
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Old 2009-06-26, 20:40   Link #306
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without that mistake he was completely perfect and untouchable which just makes for a boring villain
I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree then. Because if a mistake like that can still produce enough power to instantly slay a captain, then IMO, he is untouchable (for now). At the very least, it shows insane potential. But admittedly, this is only half the reason why his mistake made him look powerful. I neglected to mention the other factor behind it earlier because it hadn't occurred to me until now.

It would've been one thing if he screwed up the spell after it looked like he was giving it everything he had. That would've left a completely different impression. But instead, he showed no effort at all. Even Tessai (who's among one of the best Kidou specialists in all of soul society) appeared to have put in some genuine effort into casting a slightly lower leveled hadou spell.

To sum it up, it's the strength of the spell in relation to the amount of energy it took on Aizen's behalf that truly left an impression on me. Even if he messed up the spell, with damage like that, I'm tempted to believe it doesn't even matter.
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Old 2009-06-26, 21:31   Link #307
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree then. Because if a mistake like that can still produce enough power to instantly slay a captain, then IMO, he is untouchable (for now). At the very least, it shows insane potential. But admittedly, this is only half the reason why his mistake made him look powerful. I neglected to mention the other factor behind it earlier because it hadn't occurred to me until now.
It doesn't matter how powerful a villain. Ichigo always always always will win in the end.
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Old 2009-06-26, 21:35   Link #308
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I'm not sure why you felt the need to point that out. I don't even know where that came from.
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Old 2009-06-26, 22:49   Link #309
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It's boiling rage/anger at the plot kai. Gawddamn, I just want Ichigo to actually "lose" for once (as in never being able to beat his opponent, instead of always beating them in round 2).

What's the point of having a main villain if you have a main character who can't die and always win?
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Old 2009-06-26, 23:08   Link #310
sayde
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Now I see where you're coming from. It's understandable. But this is the genre we're dealing with. So for better or for worse, it's to be expected.

I'm personally hoping that Aizen's eventual defeat ends up in such a way that it doesn't quite feel like a complete victory for anyone (sort of like how things played out between Joker and Batman in the most recent Dark Knight film).
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Old 2009-06-26, 23:34   Link #311
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Now I see where you're coming from. It's understandable. But this is the genre we're dealing with. So for better or for worse, it's to be expected.

I'm personally hoping that Aizen's eventual defeat ends up in such a way that it doesn't quite feel like a complete victory for anyone (sort of like how things played out between Joker and Batman in the most recent Dark Knight film).
lol, I'd like something like that too...but I don't think the plot of Bleach could ever become remotely "deep."
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Old 2009-06-27, 04:00   Link #312
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree then. Because if a mistake like that can still produce enough power to instantly slay a captain, then IMO, he is untouchable (for now). At the very least, it shows insane potential. But admittedly, this is only half the reason why his mistake made him look powerful. I neglected to mention the other factor behind it earlier because it hadn't occurred to me until now.
it didnt actually kill komamura

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To sum it up, it's the strength of the spell in relation to the amount of energy it took on Aizen's behalf that truly left an impression on me. Even if he messed up the spell, with damage like that, I'm tempted to believe it doesn't even matter.
the impression it left on me was that if even a kidou master like aizen couldnt always perform kidou perfectly, then it must be a very difficult field to master
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Old 2009-06-27, 13:16   Link #313
sayde
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it didnt actually kill komamura
When I stated the word "slay", I was referring to one of it's informal definitions -- to overwhelm.

Last edited by sayde; 2009-06-27 at 13:32.
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Old 2009-06-28, 22:34   Link #314
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
To be honest, the fact that he messed up that lvl 90 hadou spell only makes him seem that much more powerful IMO. It's as if KT said, even his screw-ups are dangerous. Especially since the power behind a kidou spell relies directly on the power of it's user. In other words, the same exact spells deal different amounts of damage depending on who's casting them. So in essence, a lvl 90 hadou spell *from Aizen* is strong enough to OHKO captain class opponents -- even at 1/3rd it's power. It's not as if the spell itself cast by anyone at 1/3rd it's power would have the same effect.
I agree. Not only that, but he didn't even use the incantation, which makes the already difficult spell much harder to pull off. The effect was pretty much like seeing someone attempting to shoot a basketball from one end of the court to the other one-handed and making the shot but being slightly annoyed by the fact that it hit the backboard instead of going in nothing-but-net.

In other words, what Aizen considers "imperfection" is still at the level most shinigami can only dream of. The fact the villain is still improving his abilities (albeit he may be close to his limits) is more intimidating than the idea of the villain being at his peak.
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Old 2009-06-28, 23:34   Link #315
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Aizen is not perfect then, at least for some seconds, soifon and yoruichi had the chance to slice Aizen's throat if not for the negacion at Soukyoku Hill. He was taken by surprise then.
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Old 2009-06-29, 00:30   Link #316
sayde
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
The effect was pretty much like seeing someone attempting to shoot a basketball from one end of the court to the other one-handed and making the shot but being slightly annoyed by the fact that it hit the backboard instead of going in nothing-but-net.
lol. Nice comparison.

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The fact the villain is still improving his abilities (albeit he may be close to his limits) is more intimidating than the idea of the villain being at his peak.
That was an awesome way to put it. In hindsight, I think that logic is the basis for where my opinion may have originally stemmed from all along. I just couldn't put it into words as nicely as that.
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Old 2009-06-29, 02:44   Link #317
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Aizen is not perfect then, at least for some seconds, soifon and yoruichi had the chance to slice Aizen's throat if not for the negacion at Soukyoku Hill. He was taken by surprise then.
The way I see it, he simply didn't care and let them "capture" him. He knew the negacion was coming from the start.
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Old 2009-06-29, 09:39   Link #318
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The way I see it, he simply didn't care and let them "capture" him. He knew the negacion was coming from the start.
Doubt he would let himself be captured. But when he got "captured" he knew they wouldnt kill him straight away since they are the good guys and since he knew he would be saved very shortly he only needed to act cool and he would be safe imo.
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Old 2009-07-01, 19:56   Link #319
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i'm impressed with Unohana stats i thought that her rank was because of her healing powers. guess i was wrong
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Old 2009-07-01, 19:59   Link #320
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i'm impressed with Unohana stats i thought that her rank was because of her healing powers. guess i was wrong
well she terrified half of squad 11 and shunsui & ukitake are afraid of her too
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