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Old 2012-01-02, 03:53   Link #3941
Samari
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49ers finish 13-3. What a year. No one would have thought this team could achieve this mark at the beginning of the season. Jim Harbaugh has done a fantastic job. Regardless what happens from this point on, it's still been a major accomplishment and this team is for real.

A couple of things I want to touch on also:

- I'm very happy we don't have an 18 season and I hope it never comes. 16 games are enough. As from the other issues I think 18 games would be bad, it's time to get to the interesting part of the season, the playoffs. No more Colts, Jaguars, and Rams games.

- Tim Tebow and the Broncos are in the playoffs, but they have lost three straight, and I predict that they lose to the Steelers and their number one defense. Honestly I think this is the best thing for the franchise. You can't build an offense around Tebow's skillset and expect to compete year in and year out. This was obvious from the beginning, but all the morons who thought he was someone the team could build around believed otherwise.

- Matt Flynn had an amazing afternoon setting the all time yardage in a game and touchdown passes in a game for the Packers. His stock just soared and I'm betting a team like Washington or Seattle try to acquire him. Even though he had one of the best days in NFL history I'd still be a little skeptical. Flynn has performed well in relief of Rodgers in the past, so that is nice. But we've seen this happen with guys like Matt Cassel. Good one place in an established system, and struggling elsewhere on a team that is a little less talented and buyers' remorse ensues. Flynn is a RFA, so I'm guessing someone bites. Is he the next Matt Schaub/Mark Brunell? Or is he the next Rob Johnson/A.J. Feely?
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Old 2012-01-02, 03:55   Link #3942
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Heh, Saints offense will wake you up...You better hope for bad weather (swirling winds or some $hit), that's the only thing stopping us, although we have the running game to take that head on...It is what it is... Better use these two-weeks to get some redzone practice in ya life, because if you think 20 points beatin' us, if you think "keep-away" (what every team WANTS to do to us) is the strategy of a lifetime, you're gonna get your feelings hurt...
Running against the 49ers defense on the road? Good luck.

And Brees has had a historical season. But I still think Marino's is better. He didn't play what was it, 12 games in a dome? And it was back in 1984 during a time when defenders were actually allowed to cover receivers and hit the quarterback. Marino's YPA was also higher. Brees just threw the ball a lot more.

Three quarterbacks have passed for 5,000 yards this season. Almost four. It's a sign of the times that the rules have been more geared towards the offense, and specifically the pass. So all of these record breaking spectacles we are seeing really aren't as big as the media is making them out to be. At least to me.
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Old 2012-01-02, 04:04   Link #3943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari View Post
Running against the 49ers defense on the road? Good luck.

And Brees has had a historical season. But I still think Marino's is better. He didn't play what was it, 12 games in a dome? And it was back in 1984 during a time when defenders were actually allowed to cover receivers and hit the quarterback. Marino's YPA was also higher. Brees just threw the ball a lot more.

Three quarterbacks have passed for 5,000 yards this season. Almost four. It's a sign of the times that the rules have been more geared towards the offense, and specifically the pass. So all of these record breaking spectacles we are seeing really aren't as big as the media is making them out to be. At least to me.
Seconded on this.
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Old 2012-01-02, 08:08   Link #3944
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Jesus Skywalker Pats rely on the ghosts of teams' past and $hit...It's utterly mystifying...
There's nothing especially mystifying about scoring forty-nine unanswered points. What mystifies me is how the Pats let Fitzpatrick pick them apart for three series then never let the Bills score again. I watched them do so and still don't understand how it happened.

Did anyone else think the final sequence in the Houston-KC game was the height of coaching stupidity? I can understand going for two from the two-yard line, but after the motion penalty, why not just kick the extra point and take your chances in overtime? I realize the outcome was meaningless in terms of Houston's position in the playoffs, but doesn't team morale have some role to play going into the tournament?

I'm rooting for the Bengals so we can play them in the next round. Even with a gimpy Rothlisberger, I'd prefer not to face Pittsburgh. I'd much rather see the Ravens and Steelers beat the crap out of each other and leave us the survivor.
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Old 2012-01-02, 09:33   Link #3945
Mr. DJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Being a Dallas fan must be like endless hemorrhoid surgery...Glad I hopped of that toilet 2 years ago...It won't happen, but Tony Romo needs a fresh start somewhere else...
been through so many hardships after our final Super Bowl win...now Tony Romo gets so much unnecessary hate because of his first year...

but once again, it's the age old story for the Cowboys, lack of discipline and toss in multiple blown 4th Quarter leads prevented them from being 13-3

now it's time to cheer for my back-up squad, the Giants after that...I don't really care who wins as long as it's not the Brady Bunch. Much like my distaste for the Eagles...I can't quite place my finger on it about why I can't stand Tom Brady...
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Old 2012-01-02, 12:05   Link #3946
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari View Post
And Brees has had a historical season. But I still think Marino's is better. He didn't play what was it, 12 games in a dome? And it was back in 1984 during a time when defenders were actually allowed to cover receivers and hit the quarterback. Marino's YPA was also higher. Brees just threw the ball a lot more.

Three quarterbacks have passed for 5,000 yards this season. Almost four. It's a sign of the times that the rules have been more geared towards the offense, and specifically the pass. So all of these record breaking spectacles we are seeing really aren't as big as the media is making them out to be. At least to me.
Pretty much my thoughts on it as well. Not to mention it seems like half of the defenses out there are dang retarded when it comes to covering check down recievers. It seems like half the passes QBs complete nowadays are to wide open TE or RB on running short routes. No contesting whatsoever. Big passing numbers have been pretty darn easy to accompliush the last few or more years, especially for elite QBs (they'll take full advantage of it).

When you see D-pass intererence calls on a guy just jumping over a reciever to make a play on the ball and his elbow merely grazes one of the recievers arms, you know something is wrong. The NFL has made it too easy to pass.
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Old 2012-01-02, 12:08   Link #3947
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Originally Posted by Dilla View Post
Reggie Wayne may not be back either
I'd like to think Reggie will be back, if only so Luck has some veteran experience he can throw to in addition to Dallas Clark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilla View Post
When Peyton retires, I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the sidelines as a coach in a couples of years.
Is there a statute of limitations on how long after retiring as a player and when they can be hired as a coach? Because he would make a great QB coach (always felt the same for Favre, though Peyton seems like there'd be less ego involved), and I was wondering the same for whenever Ray Lewis retires, as he'd make a great Linebacker coach.

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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Manning is 35 years old? He has a couple of years left in the tank.
In terms of age, sure. However, he's had three surgeries on his neck, so the next bad hit could paralyze him with a much higher likelihood than any other player getting the same hit. It's not really worth it.

I agree that it'd be optimal for Luck to learn behind Peyton and be like the next Rodgers, but I don't know if it's really safe for Peyton to play anymore at all.
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Old 2012-01-02, 12:58   Link #3948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seji Sensei
There's nothing especially mystifying about scoring forty-nine unanswered points. What mystifies me is how the Pats let Fitzpatrick pick them apart for three series then never let the Bills score again. I watched them do so and still don't understand how it happened.
Spoken like a true Pats fan, but as an equally true Hatriots fan^^, to see teams break apart like dollar store peanut brittle after building 3 score leads on the Patriots, against a defense that some hobo in America right now could be a starter, it has to be the mystique...I have no clue what the stats are but I've seen this movie so often with the Pats George Lucas should be doing a special edition...It's amazing how you could be kicking a teams a$$ then not just fall apart, but Armageddon yourself the way teams do vs the Pats...How many times have you been down by multiple scores in a game and not even flinching because you know that patriot ghosts of lore $hit is gonna kick in and the other team will start shooting itself in the face? It's amazing if not stomach acidly pain inducing for us haters...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
I can't quite place my finger on it about why I can't stand Tom Brady...
Join the party bro...I don't know, to think a guy throws 5-10yd passes all game and still somehow gets 5,000 yds passing, that's my Tom Brady hatred for this year, but just this year^^...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari
- Matt Flynn had an amazing afternoon setting the all time yardage in a game and touchdown passes in a game for the Packers. His stock just soared and I'm betting a team like Washington or Seattle try to acquire him. Even though he had one of the best days in NFL history I'd still be a little skeptical. Flynn has performed well in relief of Rodgers in the past, so that is nice. But we've seen this happen with guys like Matt Cassel. Good one place in an established system, and struggling elsewhere on a team that is a little less talented and buyers' remorse ensues. Flynn is a RFA, so I'm guessing someone bites. Is he the next Matt Schaub/Mark Brunell? Or is he the next Rob Johnson/A.J. Feely?
That's the chance you have to take...There's like 5 elite QB's...10-15 good to decent QB's and the rest of the league is a wash...Every team in this league has practice tape on Matt Flynn, and game tape from his 2-3 starts...No ones gonna give him a big payday just based on his fantasy game yesterday...He's been rumored by GM and personnel guys as being the best backup-QB in the league for 2 seasons, they don't just get that research from gamefilm...All Matt did was solidify his position in a league where there are always atleast 10 QB jobs in question...So it won't be too idiotic to go after him vs. the field...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari
And Brees has had a historical season. But I still think Marino's is better. He didn't play what was it, 12 games in a dome? And it was back in 1984 during a time when defenders were actually allowed to cover receivers and hit the quarterback. Marino's YPA was also higher. Brees just threw the ball a lot more

Three quarterbacks have passed for 5,000 yards this season. Almost four. It's a sign of the times that the rules have been more geared towards the offense, and specifically the pass. So all of these record breaking spectacles we are seeing really aren't as big as the media is making them out to be. At least to me
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDW
Seconded on this.
I'm gonna reject this logic, not just because of Bressusliciousness, but because it's a 5% vs. 95% argument...6 guys passed for over 4500 yds, but after that the scale slides dramatically...That leaves 26 QB's left in the league...Of that 26, 18 starting QB's threw less than 3500 yards (of that 18, 12 threw for less than 3,000), so while that may still be considered "pass happy", it's the great ability of the top 4-5 guys which created the curve...An even more telling stat is that even in a league that's fueled more by the pass, Drew Brees throws for nearly 100 yds above the NFL average per game...A higher clip by nearly 40 yds over Dan Marino...So in '84 the league average was closer to Marino, meaning the quality of the QB passing in '84 was greater than it is today (In the so-called "passing era"), making Drew's stats in particular even more impressive, because he's clearly obliterating the average...

Look at your 49ners for the contrasting example in your own backyard, why aren't they taking advantage of a pass happy league("The signs of the times" as you say) or using the rules to benefit them? It's because your QB doesn't have the ability (or hasn't proven the ability) to throw the ball consistently well...So I think you're limbo-sticking the whole debate...5,000 yds passing regardless of the time period is impressive, and the only guy in league history to do it twice is Drew Brees...There's a reason that stat stood for 27 years, it's not just some fluky $hit, these guys balled, but comparative vs. the remaining 95% of the league, the league was much better in passing in '84 without the rules that aid passing...
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Old 2012-01-02, 14:28   Link #3949
Dilla
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Some coaches let go today and yesterday:
  • Steve Stagnuolo and staff (Rams)
  • Raheem Morris (Bucs)
  • Jim Caldwell (not official but likely), GM Bill Polian, and the entire staff (Colts)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
When you see D-pass intererence calls on a guy just jumping over a reciever to make a play on the ball and his elbow merely grazes one of the recievers arms, you know something is wrong. The NFL has made it too easy to pass.
Indeed:


Great catch though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I'd like to think Reggie will be back, if only so Luck has some veteran experience he can throw to in addition to Dallas Clark.
I would think that Wayne would rather go a Super Bowl contender rather than live out any possibly productive years (he is 33) that he has left on a rebuilding team. Indy needs a lot more than just QB to be any good at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Is there a statute of limitations on how long after retiring as a player and when they can be hired as a coach? Because he would make a great QB coach (always felt the same for Favre, though Peyton seems like there'd be less ego involved), and I was wondering the same for whenever Ray Lewis retires, as he'd make a great Linebacker coach.
No, but most player turned coaches join their alma mater as graduate assistants before getting any shot in the NFL. Peyton would probably be on the sideline at Tennessee first. That's if he plans on coaching.

Last edited by Dilla; 2012-01-02 at 15:05.
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Old 2012-01-02, 15:13   Link #3950
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Dear St. Louis Rams,

Please fire our poor excuse of a head coach and along with a first round draft pick, get a new head coach, somebody who can turn our team around like the current head coach did for the Blues.
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Old 2012-01-02, 17:24   Link #3951
Samari
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post



I'm gonna reject this logic, not just because of Bressusliciousness, but because it's a 5% vs. 95% argument...6 guys passed for over 4500 yds, but after that the scale slides dramatically...That leaves 26 QB's left in the league...Of that 26, 18 starting QB's threw less than 3500 yards (of that 18, 12 threw for less than 3,000), so while that may still be considered "pass happy", it's the great ability of the top 4-5 guys which created the curve...An even more telling stat is that even in a league that's fueled more by the pass, Drew Brees throws for nearly 100 yds above the NFL average per game...A higher clip by nearly 40 yds over Dan Marino...So in '84 the league average was closer to Marino, meaning the quality of the QB passing in '84 was greater than it is today (In the so-called "passing era"), making Drew's stats in particular even more impressive, because he's clearly obliterating the average...

Look at your 49ners for the contrasting example in your own backyard, why aren't they taking advantage of a pass happy league("The signs of the times" as you say) or using the rules to benefit them? It's because your QB doesn't have the ability (or hasn't proven the ability) to throw the ball consistently well...So I think you're limbo-sticking the whole debate...5,000 yds passing regardless of the time period is impressive, and the only guy in league history to do it twice is Drew Brees...There's a reason that stat stood for 27 years, it's not just some fluky $hit, these guys balled, but comparative vs. the remaining 95% of the league, the league was much better in passing in '84 without the rules that aid passing...
What do the 49ers quarterback situation have to do with Brees taking advantage of the offensive rules that give them leverage today compared to 1984? Oh yeah, nothing.

Are you seriously trying to argue that Brees playing 12 games in a dome, simply throwing the ball a lot more (lower YPA than Marino in 1984), and taking advantage of the crackdown on defensive backs on receivers that has gone on for about the last eight or so years doesn't have anything to do with his success? No math formula that you want to come up with is going to try and justify that. Like I said earlier, Brees accomplished a lot this season, but let's be real here, he's also taken the advantage of a lot of factors in today's game compared to what Marino did in 1984 in sunny Miami. His touchdown percentage was considerably higher too. 8.5% in 1984 compared to 7.0% in 2011. The only thing Brees really did better was throw the ball more (41 APG compared to Marino's 35 APG). Which if you think about it, isn't doing anything better. His average wasn't better per pass even with all of the factors on his side. Three guys passed for 5,000 yards. That should be a sign of the times.

Edge: Marino.
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Old 2012-01-02, 18:21   Link #3952
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari
What do the 49ers quarterback situation have to do with Brees taking advantage of the offensive rules that give them leverage today compared to 1984? Oh yeah, nothing.
Sighs...Uhh...I thought I explained...


Quote:
Three quarterbacks have passed for 5,000 yards this season. Almost four. It's a sign of the times that the rules have been more geared towards the offense, and specifically the pass. So all of these record breaking spectacles we are seeing really aren't as big as the media is making them out to be.
That's your argument...I'm saying that comparatively speaking they are a "big deal"...Certainly more than you are intimating...The fact that you don't have a QB that can take advantage of the rules like a Brees or what have, points to how much better these accomplishments are...To further highlight this point I sussed out the info on Marino doing this in a league where the QB play was at a more leveled baseline than it is today considering 5, 6 guys are inflating the actual curve of the stats...I layered all this before you in the first post with the sliding scale...



Quote:
No math formula that you want to come up with is going to try and justify that.
Because you don't want me to do the math...Marino's year can be argued as better(don't know if you are doing that), but I'm arguing that dismissing or stiff-arming these records because it's a "signs of the times" thing can be fool-hearty when you rely on the 5% vs. 95% stuff...The passing game has been enhanced via the rules, but we're judging this through the prism of 4 or 5 guys, when the rest of the league hasn't been taking the same full advantage (18 teams throwing for less than 3500, 18)...SO with that being set as the current baseline, I believe it makes Drew Brees' achievements this season hold even more water...And as always, that is an argument...

Edge: My argument
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Old 2012-01-02, 19:08   Link #3953
Samari
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Sighs...Uhh...I thought I explained...




That's your argument...I'm saying that comparatively speaking they are a "big deal"...Certainly more than you are intimating...The fact that you don't have a QB that can take advantage of the rules like a Brees or what have, points to how much better these accomplishments are...To further highlight this point I sussed out the info on Marino doing this in a league where the QB play was at a more leveled baseline than it is today considering 5, 6 guys are inflating the actual curve of the stats...I layered all this before you in the first post with the sliding scale...
You are bringing up the 49ers quarterback situation which has nothing to do with what Brees is doing now, what Marino did in 1984, or anything of the matter. You are just trying to make a wisecrack regarding the 49ers because you don't like the team and your trying to argue with emotion instead of logic. It's quite obvious. Every quarterback in the NFL can and has taken advantage of the rules since they were changed. Which is why average passer rating is up than it was in 1984 for instance. The formula for that hasn't changed, just the rules of the game. Every passer has an advantage now than they did 20 years ago. Even if you aren't considered a megastar. Having that advantage due to the rule changes has nothing to do with been seen as a good quarterback by other people. The good quarterbacks in the NFL would still been good twenty years ago. They probably wouldn't be putting up these kinds of numbers, but they'd still be good.




Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Because you don't want me to do the math...Marino's year can be argued as better(don't know if you are doing that), but I'm arguing that dismissing or stiff-arming these records because it's a "signs of the times" thing can be fool-hearty when you rely on the 5% vs. 95% stuff...The passing game has been enhanced via the rules, but we're judging this through the prism of 4 or 5 guys, when the rest of the league hasn't been taking the same full advantage (18 teams throwing for less than 3500, 18)...SO with that being set as the current baseline, I believe it makes Drew Brees' achievements this season hold even more water...And as always, that is an argument...

Edge: My argument

There is no math for you to do. You just admitted the passing game has been enhanced because of the rules. That should end the debate right there. I'm saying Marino's year is better in my opinion. You say you have the edge in your argument. So what is it? That Marino's is worse? If you think that is the case, please debate the things I've said that favor Brees compared to Marino (12 games in a dome, crackdown on defensive backs) and explain how how Marino's better stats in 1984 (higher YPA, less APG, higher TD percentage) don't completely dismiss Brees between the two. Seriously, Brees just threw the ball more. That's really all he did. What argument does Brees have against Marino when you compare the two seasons?

And we aren't just judging this between 4 or 5 guys when we talk about how the league has changed. Like I said before, passer rating averages are up and the formula for passer rating hasn't changed. Just the rules of the game, which now favor the offense.
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Old 2012-01-02, 19:40   Link #3954
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
I'm gonna reject this logic, not just because of Bressusliciousness, but because it's a 5% vs. 95% argument...6 guys passed for over 4500 yds, but after that the scale slides dramatically...That leaves 26 QB's left in the league...Of that 26, 18 starting QB's threw less than 3500 yards (of that 18, 12 threw for less than 3,000), so while that may still be considered "pass happy", it's the great ability of the top 4-5 guys which created the curve...An even more telling stat is that even in a league that's fueled more by the pass, Drew Brees throws for nearly 100 yds above the NFL average per game...A higher clip by nearly 40 yds over Dan Marino...So in '84 the league average was closer to Marino, meaning the quality of the QB passing in '84 was greater than it is today (In the so-called "passing era"), making Drew's stats in particular even more impressive, because he's clearly obliterating the average...

Look at your 49ners for the contrasting example in your own backyard, why aren't they taking advantage of a pass happy league("The signs of the times" as you say) or using the rules to benefit them? It's because your QB doesn't have the ability (or hasn't proven the ability) to throw the ball consistently well...So I think you're limbo-sticking the whole debate...5,000 yds passing regardless of the time period is impressive, and the only guy in league history to do it twice is Drew Brees...There's a reason that stat stood for 27 years, it's not just some fluky $hit, these guys balled, but comparative vs. the remaining 95% of the league, the league was much better in passing in '84 without the rules that aid passing...
I was seconding his part about trying to rush against The Niners D. And besides, Alex Smith had never a reliable receiving target worth a damn to throw to throughout most of his career up til this year (With the exception of Vernon Davis). And then most of those targets (Braylon Edwards, Josh Morgan, Ted Ginn Jr., Kyle Williams) got injured. If it wasn't for the fact that Michael Crabtree finally came into his own, The Niners would've been fucked offensively this year.
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Old 2012-01-02, 20:32   Link #3955
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And what did we learn about the Cowboys this year?

They're no longer America's Team.
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Old 2012-01-02, 20:47   Link #3956
Mr. DJ
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their merchandise sales say otherwise (just to note, I've never referred to them as "America's Team." Seems too arrogant for any team to have such a given title)
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Old 2012-01-02, 22:50   Link #3957
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari
You are bringing up the 49ers quarterback situation which has nothing to do with what Brees is doing now, what Marino did in 1984, or anything of the matter. You are just trying to make a wisecrack regarding the 49ers because you don't like the team and your trying to argue with emotion instead of logic. It's quite obvious.
Yes, I wasn't trying to hide anything in-terms of using Alex Smith as an example since you're so familiar with his overall ineptness (This season notwithstanding ofcourse^^)...I also don't want Breesus slighted, and if I agreed with your overall assessment I'd leave it alone, but I don't particularly agree with the assertion that Marino's season was better because the league wasn't as "pass happy" or that it's the "true" record or whatever some such, because what Drew did this year is arguably as amazing if not more than what Marino did...

Quote:
You just admitted the passing game has been enhanced because of the rules. That should end the debate right there.
Nice try...In 1978 (The year the NFL moved from 14 to 16 games), the previous yards passing record was broken 3 straight times by Dan Fouts (Who took it from Joe Namath who held it for 13 years)...Coincidentally (NOT), this was also the year the "Mel Blount rule" was put into effect which is the neat little rule we now call "The 5-yard rule" on receivers releasing from the line of scrimmage...So 6 years after new rule changes Dan Marino and his utter awesomeness was able to obliterate the books on this (Point of comparison, make a note of it), just like Fouts before him...So under this thought process Dan Marino's year compared to Namath who did it with 2 fewer games and no 5 yard-separation rules looks worst than the assertion that Brees topping Marino is flawed...


To suggest that these records aren't "a big deal" or "as big" as the other guy's records is to not understand the history of the league on this and the myopic viewpoints one may have based on sportsmyths (Like we're in the passing era, yet statistically 18 teams in the league failed to surpass 3500 yards passing--Again 5 vs. 95...People were putting that up routinely in the AFL days)...


Not only did he take on Marino's record, he obliterated it, did it in 15 games, and sat out the 4th quarter in the 16th game...There is something to be said about not just beating a record, but destroying it to argue Brees' year was just as amazing...Now comparing two guys from different eras is always pretty arbitrary, that's why i framed the debate in-terms of the baseline for passing yard averages from each guys' respective years...If we go further, and you wanna flex TD% and YPA, Brees has better completion percentage (by 7% WITH MORE ATTEMPTS), better passing rating, less INT's , better 3rd down rating, etc. We can play a tit-for-tat stats game, Drew's no slouch...

That's why I'm offering a different viewpoint, I mean defenses in the 80's weren't even built to stop obtuse passing attacks, while in today's game every team goes 4-5 deep in corners, yet Drew is penalized for this? (This is $hit that theoretically makes it harder to pass alot) Dome stadium vs. crisp Miami climate? Who played the worst defenses that year against the pass? You see the slippery slope? There are so many mitigating factors to consider we could go all day, but the argument exists that Drew Brees may very well have had a better season, and I'm not gonna let these throwaway 5 vs. 95 myths cloud my thoughts on the subject when I see an argument for Drew's season to be made...It's not cut and dry in the least...That's my argument...
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Old 2012-01-03, 03:37   Link #3958
Samari
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Yes, I wasn't trying to hide anything in-terms of using Alex Smith as an example since you're so familiar with his overall ineptness (This season notwithstanding ofcourse^^)...I also don't want Breesus slighted, and if I agreed with your overall assessment I'd leave it alone, but I don't particularly agree with the assertion that Marino's season was better because the league wasn't as "pass happy" or that it's the "true" record or whatever some such, because what Drew did this year is arguably as amazing if not more than what Marino did...



Nice try...In 1978 (The year the NFL moved from 14 to 16 games), the previous yards passing record was broken 3 straight times by Dan Fouts (Who took it from Joe Namath who held it for 13 years)...Coincidentally (NOT), this was also the year the "Mel Blount rule" was put into effect which is the neat little rule we now call "The 5-yard rule" on receivers releasing from the line of scrimmage...So 6 years after new rule changes Dan Marino and his utter awesomeness was able to obliterate the books on this (Point of comparison, make a note of it), just like Fouts before him...So under this thought process Dan Marino's year compared to Namath who did it with 2 fewer games and no 5 yard-separation rules looks worst than the assertion that Brees topping Marino is flawed...


To suggest that these records aren't "a big deal" or "as big" as the other guy's records is to not understand the history of the league on this and the myopic viewpoints one may have based on sportsmyths (Like we're in the passing era, yet statistically 18 teams in the league failed to surpass 3500 yards passing--Again 5 vs. 95...People were putting that up routinely in the AFL days)...


Not only did he take on Marino's record, he obliterated it, did it in 15 games, and sat out the 4th quarter in the 16th game...There is something to be said about not just beating a record, but destroying it to argue Brees' year was just as amazing...Now comparing two guys from different eras is always pretty arbitrary, that's why i framed the debate in-terms of the baseline for passing yard averages from each guys' respective years...If we go further, and you wanna flex TD% and YPA, Brees has better completion percentage (by 7% WITH MORE ATTEMPTS), better passing rating, less INT's , better 3rd down rating, etc. We can play a tit-for-tat stats game, Drew's no slouch...

That's why I'm offering a different viewpoint, I mean defenses in the 80's weren't even built to stop obtuse passing attacks, while in today's game every team goes 4-5 deep in corners, yet Drew is penalized for this? (This is $hit that theoretically makes it harder to pass alot) Dome stadium vs. crisp Miami climate? Who played the worst defenses that year against the pass? You see the slippery slope? There are so many mitigating factors to consider we could go all day, but the argument exists that Drew Brees may very well have had a better season, and I'm not gonna let these throwaway 5 vs. 95 myths cloud my thoughts on the subject when I see an argument for Drew's season to be made...It's not cut and dry in the least...That's my argument...
Brees only obliterated Marino's record because he threw the ball more in the same 16 game schedule and attempted more passes per game. That is it. He didn't average more per pass while playing in a dome for the majority of his games. Throwing for more yards doesn't necessarily mean you had a better season than another guy. It's like saying all of the Oilers receivers of the early 90's were megastars and heads and heels above everyone else because they had a bunch of receiving yards year after year. While they did have some playmakers, their offense was based on throwing the ball pretty much every single offensive down.

Having a higher completion percentage isn't surprising when you play 12 games in a dome. Doesn't matter if Miami has good weather. Outside on grass is always going to be different than playing in perfect non-winded conditions inside a dome with artificial turf.

Defenses in the 1980's could actually play defense. Even defenses that are geared to stop more passing offenses now still have a disadvantage simply due to the rules that are in place. You touch a receiver beyond five yards just barely, flag. Even in the 90's with the five yard rule in place, it wasn't this strict. Only after Bill Polian's lobbying following the 2003 playoffs where his Colts lost to the Patriots, did the crackdown truly begin, and this is where we are now.

All Brees did was throw the ball more. That's all he did. Averages usually matter to me more than the actual amount gained or allowed in football stats. Which is why I usually put more stock in a team's offense or defense in terms of points scored/allowed instead of yards gained/allowed.

As far as Marino compared to Namath, when Namath throws for more than 26 touchdowns in a season, we'll talk. Even if you give him the 5 yard rule plus two more games, I doubt he ever does something like that. No one replicated what Marino did in 1984 until what, 1999 with the Rams I'm guessing when Warner threw for over 40 touchdowns. Oh wait, Marino did it twice in 1986. So I think it's safe to say regardless of the rule changes from that period on to Marino's, Namath wouldn't have a chance even with that advantage. Over 40 touchdowns and 5,000 yards isn't that big of a deal in 2011, as it is in 1984. Especially since three passers did it this very year. What Marino did literally wasn't done again until this season. You want to talk defenses of that era, Marino was pretty much the only one that couldn't be stopped from doing something like that during that time. Pretty good for a 23 year old in 1984.

Again, Brees had a great season. I just believe that Marino's was more impressive. It's not night and day to me, but I still feel it's more impressive.
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Old 2012-01-03, 14:02   Link #3959
Elo the Blue
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Just out of curiosity, does anyone here think Michael Floyd is better than Justin Blackmon?
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Old 2012-01-03, 15:00   Link #3960
Dilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
Just out of curiosity, does anyone here think Michael Floyd is better than Justin Blackmon?
I got Micheal 4th on my list.

1. Justin Blackmon
2. Alshon Jeffery
3. *homer alert*Dwight Jones
4. Malcolm Floyd
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