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Old 2014-02-10, 10:07   Link #1
Dark Wing
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Free to Play vs Subscription

I've seen this topic continue to be debated over lat few years now and was just curious to know what the AnimeSuki community thought of these types of games and their preference.


Now I've played both kinds and have my own pros and cons in regards to the two follow my own personal experiances.

Free to Play:

Pros:

It's free what more can be said.

Because it's a free game you will most likely find more people to play with no matter what time of day it is.

Cons:

The Cash shops tend to be over price on items to would give some player an unfair advantage especially true in games that promote pvp.

The player base isn't always lets yes the most desirable at times. You'd get someone who is either under to young to know how to play or can't speak very good English if any at all. This then makes communication and executing tactics near impossible when trying to play.

Subscription

Pros:

They tend to be well maintained and quicker to respond to player concerns which people would expect if they putting money into the game every mouth or year.

Some of the player base in these games tend to be a bit more strategic and serious about play the game because once again they are paying money to play.

Cons:

Some subscription prices tend to be a bit on the high end and it's getting harder to maintain that kind of cash especially in to days economy.
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Old 2014-02-10, 10:49   Link #2
DragoonKain3
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I personally hate subscription. Just the fact that in order to get your money's worth you have to play as much as you can for that month, and that you have to do this every month, makes it a hassle for me who has a growing library of RPGs that I haven't even OPENED, let alone played. Some people compare it to Netflix or CR subscription, but at least Netflix has a lot of value for my family and my CR sub is very useful to watch things on the go.

Free to play on the other hand doesn't give me the feeling that I'm wasting money if I decide to stop playing it in order to devote my free time to finishing an RPG or two.
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Old 2014-02-10, 11:30   Link #3
kyp275
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
I personally hate subscription. Just the fact that in order to get your money's worth you have to play as much as you can for that month, and that you have to do this every month, makes it a hassle for me who has a growing library of RPGs that I haven't even OPENED, let alone played. Some people compare it to Netflix or CR subscription, but at least Netflix has a lot of value for my family and my CR sub is very useful to watch things on the go.

Free to play on the other hand doesn't give me the feeling that I'm wasting money if I decide to stop playing it in order to devote my free time to finishing an RPG or two.

This is a stance that I’ve always found rather baffling, and IMO, completely self-inflicted.

“Just the fact that in order to get your money's worth you have to play as much as you can for that month”

First off, it’s not “fact”, it’s simply how you chose to define it. By that logic I would have to sit in front of my TV 24/7 to get my money’s worth for my cable. Subscription MMO is literally no different than any other subscription based service/entertainment – you’re simply paying a recurring fee for access to something, whether it is a gym, tv, internet, phone, or videogame.

Do you feel like you’re not getting your money’s worth if you’re not spending all your waking moments in a gym, while watching tv on your phone? No? then why do you feel that way just for MMOs? It’s one thing if you feel like the product is not worth the price, but saying it’s bad because you to feel compelled to use that product all the time or you’re losing money is a flawed proposition at best. For whatever it’s worth, I tend to see this more in the casual MMO crowd.

For me, F2P is a waste period, as they do not offer what I’m looking for in a MMO. They may be free, but the time I would’ve spent is not.
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Old 2014-02-10, 11:38   Link #4
ZGoten
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It really depends on how the F2P model is implemented. Path of Exile and DOTA 2 do it very well, League of Legends does it decently, Star Wars: The Old Republic is right on the edge, and Allods Online did it horrendously. The whole free to play model can range from an audacious money grab to an exciting offer.
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Old 2014-02-10, 12:19   Link #5
Kyero Fox
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I'd give my 15 bucks on the subject but I'm afraid I'll hurt some feelings. So I'll just say this.

F2P's are most of the time garbage and try to steal your money worse than a 15$ sub will.
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Old 2014-02-10, 12:26   Link #6
FlareKnight
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I'll definitely give the preference to the free to play models. Never liked the concept of buying a game and then having to continue paying to be able to play it. Does feel like I've got to play the game as much as possible with a subscription or it's just a waste.

Definitely ways that the free to play games can screw it up, but at least the feeling of waste isn't there if you aren't playing it.

In the end comes down to how people want to spend what they have. Next to no subscription based games that are worth it for me. They can find people that are willing to pay.
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Old 2014-02-10, 13:43   Link #7
kyp275
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Never liked the concept of buying a game and then having to continue paying to be able to play it.
Not exactly accurate – I never had to buy any copies of Eve to play it – the client is free to download. In any case, I see this mostly from gamers who primarily play single player games, which does not require large server farms to maintain, nor a dev team on payroll to continue to develop the game, or all the other misc. costs that goes with a MMO that single player games don’t have.

In comparison to F2P games, the devs will get their money one way or the other, whether from subs or cash shop for F2P.

The effect is rather obvious in the quality of the end product, sub-based games have a steady income that the studio can budget around and develop content for, while F2P games have to rely on an unstable income source like cash shops, which means contents are always developed to encourage the use of cash shops – inevitably resulting in games that locks substantial contents behind paywalls and/or blatantly pay2win.

No, you didn’t have to pay to play this game, but then you’re also only playing half of it, and the best you can ever be in this game without paying would be a Slightly-less gimped Scrub, and that’s only after you grind yourself to death (ironically spending far more hours than you would’ve in a sub game).

Quote:
Does feel like I've got to play the game as much as possible with a subscription or it's just a waste.
Like I said above, this really is illogical, and I’ve yet to see anyone that can offer an explanation.

Quote:
Definitely ways that the free to play games can screw it up, but at least the feeling of waste isn't there if you aren't playing it.
More like the vast majority of F2P games screws it up.
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Old 2014-02-10, 13:58   Link #8
Mahou
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Quote:
Pros:

They tend to be well maintained and quicker to respond to player concerns which people would expect if they putting money into the game every mouth or year.

Some of the player base in these games tend to be a bit more strategic and serious about play the game because once again they are paying money to play.
I respect people for playing "serious" and all, but unfortunately - like also in the opposite case - there's always that loud fraction of players who act all elite jerkish and stuck-up when one decided to take a game not serious like a job (which e. g. also should not mean to play intentionally bad).
Personally, I prefer F2P by now and that's mostly due to my playstyle. I have grown more than tired of the "raid or die" principle and due to my extreme irregular online-offline habit in MMOs, there won't be a month where I need to feel "bad" for not logging in, yet still paying.
If that makes me a "slightly less-gimped noob" in the eyes of self-proclaimed elitists, then so be it. The only thing cashshops offer of value to me is character slots, bag/bank space, which I usually also don't buy. Though, the SWTOR cash-shop is ridicoulous.

Fortunately, I have grown more or less tired of MMOs - be it p2p or f2p.
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Old 2014-02-10, 14:29   Link #9
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Mahou View Post
If that makes me a "slightly less-gimped noob" in the eyes of self-proclaimed elitists, then so be it.
If that’s supposed to be a dig at me, which it sure looks like it is, I would kindly suggest you go back and actually try reading what I wrote again.

What I was talking about was contents being locked behind paywall that is simply not available to players who are not participating in the cash shop, often times including gear/equipment/stuff that are simply superior to what you can obtain without paying in-game (pay2win). It doesn’t matter how good of a player you are if all you can get after grinding for 283472389 hrs is a Giant Sword of Meh, while those who decide to pony up $20 gets the Super Excalibur of PWN +9000.

What makes elitists jerks are their attitudes, name-calling other people doesn’t make you any better.
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Old 2014-02-10, 14:47   Link #10
GDB
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
First off, it’s not “fact”, it’s simply how you chose to define it. By that logic I would have to sit in front of my TV 24/7 to get my money’s worth for my cable. Subscription MMO is literally no different than any other subscription based service/entertainment – you’re simply paying a recurring fee for access to something, whether it is a gym, tv, internet, phone, or videogame.
While I don't agree with having to play "all the time" to get one's money's worth, you definitely need to put in whatever you feel is an adequate amount of time in a given month to get your money's worth. If you usually put in, say, 25 hours a month (modest estimate of basically committing one day a week), and you consider that getting your money's worth, but then one month you get really busy and can only play for 8 hours... then you no longer got your money's worth.

It's the same for everything that's subscription based, and why a lot of people quit gyms. They don't have time to commit, and they don't feel they get their money's worth based on how often they can go.

Internet and phone are different beasts entirely, though. They're basically required in most of modern society, in some form.

That said, I'm not against the subscription platform, but it definitely has flaws. One of the biggest, in my opinion, are the griefers who try to justify their griefing by saying "I pay my money, I can do whatever I want!"
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Old 2014-02-10, 15:14   Link #11
Reckoner
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F2P -> DOTA 2 -> best game

enough said
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Old 2014-02-10, 16:57   Link #12
Joyce_Steele
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Free 2 Play = Pay 2 Win
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Old 2014-02-10, 16:57   Link #13
kyp275
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
While I don't agree with having to play "all the time" to get one's money's worth, you definitely need to put in whatever you feel is an adequate amount of time in a given month to get your money's worth. If you usually put in, say, 25 hours a month (modest estimate of basically committing one day a week), and you consider that getting your money's worth, but then one month you get really busy and can only play for 8 hours... then you no longer got your money's worth.

It's the same for everything that's subscription based, and why a lot of people quit gyms. They don't have time to commit, and they don't feel they get their money's worth based on how often they can go.

Internet and phone are different beasts entirely, though. They're basically required in most of modern society, in some form.

That said, I'm not against the subscription platform, but it definitely has flaws. One of the biggest, in my opinion, are the griefers who try to justify their griefing by saying "I pay my money, I can do whatever I want!"
Of course, but that's entirely subjective, which is the issue i have with the original statement that tried to claims it as an objective fact.

A player can spend 40hrs a week on a game and feel like it's not worth the money, and another may only spend 2 hrs a week and feel like it's worth the cost, it all depends on what you're expecting to get out of the game, and not how much RL time did you spend using said service during the subscription period.

as for griefers, I'm not sure how that's a strike against subs, in F2P they don't even need to find an excuse.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
F2P -> DOTA 2 -> best game

enough said
Not really, don't give 2 craps about DOTA
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Old 2014-02-10, 17:00   Link #14
greensoulreaper
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Only downside to F2P is the limits they impose on you, and whether you are tempted enough by the game to spend extra cash to get that tiny bit of satisfaction or just live with what you have. Alas, greed is in our nature and the urge to do the opposite of the latter is strong.

At least F2P gives everyone a opportunity to try the game as opposed to a solely P2P model.

I never invest in a F2P + Micro-transaction model unless I know it's a game I'll definitely keep coming back to.
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Old 2014-02-10, 17:00   Link #15
Veviticus
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It all depends on the game. There are terrible and amazing games that are free to play just as there are terrible and amazing games that are on a subscription.

Playing enough to get your money's worth for subscription based games is all subjective. Heck, I've had friends who continued their sub with WoW for several months without ever logging in just in case they felt like playing it one day.

"The effect is rather obvious in the quality of the end product, sub-based games have a steady income that the studio can budget around and develop content for, while F2P games have to rely on an unstable income source like cash shops, which means contents are always developed to encourage the use of cash shops – inevitably resulting in games that locks substantial contents behind paywalls and/or blatantly pay2win."

Even sub-based games have an unstable income with their ever increasing/decreasing sub numbers. And the largest sub-based game has their own cash shop, where they develop mounts and pets specifically to sell on the cash shop that you can't obtain in game. And now the upcoming elder scrolls online has the imperial race locked behind the collectors edition.
There's also raid lockouts and weekly resets to limit your progress in sub-based games just to prolong the content and have you subbed for longer.

"More like the vast majority of F2P games screws it up."

And when sub-based games screw up, they become F2P.
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Old 2014-02-10, 17:29   Link #16
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Veviticus View Post
Even sub-based games have an unstable income with their ever increasing/decreasing sub numbers. And the largest sub-based game has their own cash shop, where they develop mounts and pets specifically to sell on the cash shop that you can't obtain in game. And now the upcoming elder scrolls online has the imperial race locked behind the collectors edition.
There's also raid lockouts and weekly resets to limit your progress in sub-based games just to prolong the content and have you subbed for longer.
It's all relative, compared to F2P games where there is literally zero guaranteed income month to month, Sub-based games knows how much guaranteed money is coming in, and can generally make much more accurate revenue projection. That leads to fundamentally different approach in development.

You may see mounts and other vanity items in cash shop for sub games, but you're not going to see stuff like exp pot and gold ammo etc., or "pay up or this region is not available to you" crap. Whereas the vanity items is extra dressing for sub devs, F2P devs literally depend on people buying their stuff to survive.

Timesinks are a necessity for MMOs, Sub or F2P. The only difference is that F2P tend to have much more egregious timesinks - easily bypassed if you would just step right over to that menu and give them some $$$ of course.

Quote:
And when sub-based games screw up, they become F2P.
And what does that tell you?
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Old 2014-02-10, 18:08   Link #17
Jaden
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A game with sub fees competes with WoW. If it's unable to deliver a sufficiently fresh experience and constant updates, it will fail. At the same time, it still has to cater to current and ex-WoW players.

Devs have a lot more freedom in a game without sub fees (I won't say F2P, because it can still be funded by the initial purchase and expansion packs.) They can take their time with creating new content. They can allow people to stop playing and come back a year later for the expansion.

A game like this also has a lower entry barrier for new players, so a lot more people will at least try out the game, even if it deviates from the norm and people aren't sure what to expect. Non-sub games are what's going to innovate in the MMORPG genre and bring it to a wider audience, subscription games fight for a slice of the same pie WoW has been eating for 10 years.
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Old 2014-02-10, 18:29   Link #18
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
A game with sub fees competes with WoW. If it's unable to deliver a sufficiently fresh experience and constant updates, it will fail. At the same time, it still has to cater to current and ex-WoW players.

Devs have a lot more freedom in a game without sub fees (I won't say F2P, because it can still be funded by the initial purchase and expansion packs.) They can take their time with creating new content. They can allow people to stop playing and come back a year later for the expansion.

A game like this also has a lower entry barrier for new players, so a lot more people will at least try out the game, even if it deviates from the norm and people aren't sure what to expect. Non-sub games are what's going to innovate in the MMORPG genre and bring it to a wider audience, subscription games fight for a slice of the same pie WoW has been eating for 10 years.
I disagree.

Eve Online has been around since before WoW, and it's still growing - and yes, it's sub-based.

It's also a heavily pvp-centric sandbox in a single shard world with an actual economy, basically everything that WoW is not, hardly the "same pie".

What is going to innovate the genre are the gamers, as long as most continue to stick to WoW and WoW clones, then that's what most devs will continue to make, sub or f2p.

And since that require people to give a chance to non-lazy theme park games, it'll probably never happen, and all the innovative/different games will continue to remain niche games.
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Old 2014-02-10, 18:33   Link #19
Guy Incognito
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i will never pay for a Subscription because their plenty of good games and better games out their that do not have Subscriptions or paywalls. as for paywalls it depends on the game and how many their are of them.
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Old 2014-02-10, 19:28   Link #20
Veviticus
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
It's all relative, compared to F2P games where there is literally zero guaranteed income month to month, Sub-based games knows how much guaranteed money is coming in, and can generally make much more accurate revenue projection. That leads to fundamentally different approach in development.

You may see mounts and other vanity items in cash shop for sub games, but you're not going to see stuff like exp pot and gold ammo etc., or "pay up or this region is not available to you" crap. Whereas the vanity items is extra dressing for sub devs, F2P devs literally depend on people buying their stuff to survive.

Timesinks are a necessity for MMOs, Sub or F2P. The only difference is that F2P tend to have much more egregious timesinks - easily bypassed if you would just step right over to that menu and give them some $$$ of course.
If it's extra dressing for sub devs, it's a big fuck you to pets and mounts collectors since they have to choose to fork out extra money on top of a sub fee just to do what they like to do in a game.

What about the boost to level 90 in WoW? They're even considering putting it into the cash shop. A boost to 90 does much more than an exp pot. But they're both just a way to save time and doesn't offer an advantage over other players (at end game).

And what about expansion packs? When a lot of players would still gladly pay a sub fee for 10+ months with no content updates, and still have to fork out extra money to access the next level of content. If you don't pay up, that new region is not available to you. I haven't come across locked regions in a F2P game yet. I suppose I haven't played that many.

But whatever, whether it's F2P or sub, they're just a business trying to make money. If a F2P game sells overpriced buy2win items, I just don't buy or play it. And if a sub-based game stops releasing content until the next expansion, I just unsub until it comes out.

Quote:
And what does that tell you?
Games can be shit regardless of the payment model, some games are not worth a subscription or maybe F2P makes more money than subscription.
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