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View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 7 16.28%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 12 27.91%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 30.23%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 20.93%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 2.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 2.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-09-01, 22:04   Link #341
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I believe I have said this before

I think Erio and Caro along with some other characters were intended for another storyline arc, but were forcibly included into this season

What storyline could that be? Well.. Erio being a squire is potential start, for instance. For that alone you can start a "what does being a knight, mean?" approach
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Old 2007-09-01, 22:17   Link #342
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Originally Posted by Mirificus
Yet teaching is exactly what Hayate was doing there by getting Rein to demonstrate how well she's learned the concepts they had just gone over. Hayate hasn't been shown to have a lot of opportunities to teach but when she was shown to have one, she made the appropriate choice of testing Rein there. It doesn't mean she's a great teacher but it does show that she's at least competent at teaching. If they wrote her there as they are now Strikers, she wouldn't have said anything at all there.
teaching them one thing doesn't mean you're a teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirificus
Remember, Nanoha has had problems teaching Teana as well. That's three out of four. That's she's the commander of Stars squad hardly makes matters look any better. There's a truism that, "there are no bad regiments, only bad colonels." That's certainly accurate for RF6 as a whole. Is it true for Stars squad?

What about my other impressions of Hayate? As demonstrated in Strikers, she could hardly be any more apathetic and negligent as a commander. Before that though, I would say that she did have the ability and potential to have been a good commander before the writers started writing themselves into a corner.
I dunno why you're saying all this I didn't say she sucked as a commander, i just said she wasn't depicted as a teacher.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk
How else to evaluate a teacher's ability, but by the students they come up with. Especially since they hand-picked these people - they weren't consignments like what most teachers get.

The forwards aren't anything special right. They seem to be a mismatch of unwanted kids. How you evaluate the teachers' worth is up to you. Personally, i'd cut them some slack and base it mostly on how they convey and present information, not how well their kids apply it.

Either way, you said to base it on the student they come up with. So you dO just that. Last time i checked, they haven't graduated from nanoha's class yet.
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Old 2007-09-02, 00:23   Link #343
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by rtwesen View Post
teaching them one thing doesn't mean you're a teacher
He already agreed to this. But from the one scene, it seems like she has the makings of a teacher, which is as it should be. One of the commanders' tasks is in fact to educate his subordinates, so that they can one day take over the job. Being a good teacher ain't everything for a commander, but it hardly hurts.

Quote:
I dunno why you're saying all this I didn't say she sucked as a commander,
Do.

Quote:
The forwards aren't anything special right. They seem to be a mismatch of unwanted kids.
I'm hazy on Caro and Erio, but I know that Subaru and Teana were handpicked by Nanoha and Hayate. This is clear in Ep1 and the manga.

Quote:
How you evaluate the teachers' worth is up to you. Personally, i'd cut them some slack and base it mostly on how they convey and present information, not how well their kids apply it.
If we had been able to observe a large sample of Nanoha's lessons, maybe. We however, get a few slices. Thus we go by result. Nanoha was baking a cake and it came out quite burned. Are you going to say she's a good cook because you glimpsed her mixing the flour correctly?

Quote:
Either way, you said to base it on the student they come up with. So you dO just that. Last time i checked, they haven't graduated from nanoha's class yet.
Subaru and Teana actually had service time, and they had all graduated basic training. This is the advanced unit training. Graduation is a meaningless concept for Advanced Unit Training - you do it every day while you are in the unit.

If you must have a graduation is the unit's Initial Operational Capability. And that was oh, in Ep5.
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Old 2007-09-02, 01:29   Link #344
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
If we had been able to observe a large sample of Nanoha's lessons, maybe. We however, get a few slices. Thus we go by result. Nanoha was baking a cake and it came out quite burned. Are you going to say she's a good cook because you glimpsed her mixing the flour correctly?


Subaru and Teana actually had service time, and they had all graduated basic training. This is the advanced unit training. Graduation is a meaningless concept for Advanced Unit Training - you do it every day while you are in the unit.

If you must have a graduation is the unit's Initial Operational Capability. And that was oh, in Ep5.
i sure as hell wouldn't say she's a bad cook if i only had a small sample. If all her cakes were bad, yea. But if only a few were bad, i'd give her the benefit of the doubt.

i dunno all this military lingo, but 'not dropping your guard while enemies are around', that's a basic training concept right? It's pretty much common sense. As with the forwards fking up in the heat of the moment, i'd attribute most of that to their inexperience :/
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Old 2007-09-02, 05:17   Link #345
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Originally Posted by rtwesen View Post
i sure as hell wouldn't say she's a bad cook if i only had a small sample. If all her cakes were bad, yea. But if only a few were bad, i'd give her the benefit of the doubt.
She already burnt 3 cakes out of 4, consecutively, in our sight. Only Teana is shaping up after a rocky middle. It is certainly a bigger and better measurement than what can be done by seeing the even thinner slices of her educational efforts.

Quote:
i dunno all this military lingo, but 'not dropping your guard while enemies are around', that's a basic training concept right? It's pretty much common sense. As with the forwards fking up in the heat of the moment, i'd attribute most of that to their inexperience :/
A lot of basic military tactics is common sense. I can understand Subaru's hesitation to floor Lutecia as lack of moral-psychological conditioning, but Caro and Erio's talk?
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Old 2007-09-02, 05:21   Link #346
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I don't think that the Forwards messing up all the time really affects the show...it just showing the difference from them to the Aces. It's pretty much the "shounen" factor of Nanoha that they're trying to dodge, you know the whole "powerful already with not much experience yet" kind of attribute that most shounen titles have.
The Forwards were used to balance things out.

But I guess we are just all surprised on how the tide has changed since the second half of StrikerS has started. If we all read the whole description of StrikerS, I swear it was always going to be about the Forwards and how little by little, they start to understand their devices and master their magic attacks more better. I think the first half of StrikerS was clearly pointing in the direction of Hayate development as being a commander/leader of her own division in TSAB and the Forwards and their pasts problems that could affect the present time that they are in and how the enemy can somehow use that as their advantage (project F especially).

I agree that the Teana problem took quite long and the so called "relationship" between Erio, Caro, and Lutecia was bound to happen, but it didn't sadly. I think towards the second half of StrikerS, the writers feared that there was one extreme element that they were missing and the reason why they made a 10 year time skip from A's and that was...NanohaXFate. So Vivio came in, Nanoha took her in and Fate, being Nanoha's best friend, supported Nanoha's decision and also took Vivio into her care...making much more room for NxF to please the fans who were not finding StrikerS interesting because of the lack of interaction between Fate and Nanoha.

I will just say this again, StrikerS just became bad when the second half of the story started.

Almost time for episode 23, hopefully, we may get some answers to whatever is remaining of the smashed side plots.

EDIT: The "final thoughts and impressions" thread doesn't start until the last episode has aired right?...I'm guessing that once that thread is created, everyone will truly speak their mind on how StrikerS turned out to be...

Back on topic, in the ending of this episode, there was something being typed...what did it read out?
Also, I find Scaglietti entering the battle a bit strange
shouldn"t he be watching over his main lab instead of interfering with a fight that has the opponent really outnumbered?
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Old 2007-09-02, 05:49   Link #347
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Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05 View Post
I don't think that the Forwards messing up all the time really affects the show...it just showing the difference from them to the Aces. It's pretty much the "shounen" factor of Nanoha that they're trying to dodge, you know the whole "powerful already with not much experience yet" kind of attribute that most shounen titles have.
The Forwards were used to balance things out.

But I guess we are just all surprised on how the tide has changed since the second half of StrikerS has started. If we all read the whole description of StrikerS, I swear it was always going to be about the Forwards and how little by little, they start to understand their devices and master their magic attacks more better. I think the first half of StrikerS was clearly pointing in the direction of Hayate development as being a commander/leader of her own division in TSAB and the Forwards and their pasts problems that could affect the present time that they are in and how the enemy can somehow use that as their advantage (project F especially).

I agree that the Teana problem took quite long and the so called "relationship" between Erio, Caro, and Lutecia was bound to happen, but it didn't sadly. I think towards the second half of StrikerS, the writers feared that there was one extreme element that they were missing and the reason why they made a 10 year time skip from A's and that was...NanohaXFate. So Vivio came in, Nanoha took her in and Fate, being Nanoha's best friend, supported Nanoha's decision and also took Vivio into her care...making much more room for NxF to please the fans who were not finding StrikerS interesting because of the lack of interaction between Fate and Nanoha.

I will just say this again, StrikerS just became bad when the second half of the story started.

Almost time for episode 23, hopefully, we may get some answers to whatever is remaining of the smashed side plots.

EDIT: The "final thoughts and impressions" thread doesn't start until the last episode has aired right?...I'm guessing that once that thread is created, everyone will truly speak their mind on how StrikerS turned out to be...
You just said most of i what i wanted to say.
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Old 2007-09-02, 05:56   Link #348
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oh...well feel free to post away...I think I missed a lot of points still yet, but I'll wait until the "final thoughts" thread is created.

As for Scaglietti, he surely seems like he could take on Fate with just his AMF glove device...since the good guys always win, I wonder how Fate will get out of that situation, and since she did lose her cool when she came face to face with Scaglietti in a monitor, which I still find a little unprofessional of Fate doing such a thing.
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Old 2007-09-02, 06:56   Link #349
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Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05 View Post
oh...well feel free to post away...I think I missed a lot of points still yet, but I'll wait until the "final thoughts" thread is created.

As for Scaglietti, he surely seems like he could take on Fate with just his AMF glove device...since the good guys always win, I wonder how Fate will get out of that situation, and since she did lose her cool when she came face to face with Scaglietti in a monitor, which I still find a little unprofessional of Fate doing such a thing.
Scaglietti have a petty hatable character setting so it is understandable that Fate chan finds the Doc detesting and wants to slice him up petty badly too. I say that Fate can go into mode change and takes on the Doc and number at least evenly. I mean they did throw the idea at us so they should go through with it.
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Old 2007-09-02, 07:21   Link #350
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And to add another comment,i fell that halfway through the series, the change in storyline abd with the strange animation of the later episodes,i just feel that the 2nd half of strikers does not seem to belong to the season,but yet the fact remains as such.
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Old 2007-09-02, 07:44   Link #351
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
She already burnt 3 cakes out of 4, consecutively, in our sight. Only Teana is shaping up after a rocky middle. It is certainly a bigger and better measurement than what can be done by seeing the even thinner slices of her educational efforts.



A lot of basic military tactics is common sense. I can understand Subaru's hesitation to floor Lutecia as lack of moral-psychological conditioning, but Caro and Erio's talk?
ok let's see:
You're saying that we should judge nanoha's teaching skills based on the quality of students she produces.

Firstly:
You're talking as if everything they did wrong was nanoha's fault. It IS, in terms of military hierarchy, but in terms of teaching, the students themselves need to be able to apply what they were taught. That is not in the control of nanoha.
The best teacher in the world can teach everything to a kid, but ultimately, it's up to the kid to apply and use it.

Secondly (to your previous previous post!):
even if there wasn't any type of 'graduation' and advanced unit training(?) is continuous, it's clear that the forwards haven't be taught everything nanoha intended to, yet. If you judge nanoha's teaching on the results, wait until she actually produces results. If you're halfway through writing an essay and someone reads it, most likely than not, it'd be shitter than it should be.
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Old 2007-09-02, 07:55   Link #352
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
She already burnt 3 cakes out of 4, consecutively, in our sight. Only Teana is shaping up after a rocky middle. It is certainly a bigger and better measurement than what can be done by seeing the even thinner slices of her educational efforts.
However, Nanoha is hailed as one of the greatest insctructors in years. She has hundreds of satisfied students.

To bounce back your analogy "She burned 3 cakes, does that make her a bad baker when the shop is filled with good ones?"

I also fail to see the three. I can understand viewing Subaru as the two -though I don't agree with it- but who would be the three?
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Old 2007-09-02, 08:05   Link #353
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However, Nanoha is hailed as one of the greatest insctructors in years. She has hundreds of satisfied students.

To bounce back your analogy "She burned 3 cakes, does that make her a bad baker when the shop is filled with good ones?"

I also fail to see the three. I can understand viewing Subaru as the two -though I don't agree with it- but who would be the three?
The problem is that we can see those 4 students, and we see the 296 others only by reputation.

But then, I suppose by TSAB standards, they were well-trained and motivated. I mean, look at the competition (look at the Ep 16 scenes of the TSAB mages wimping out on the sight of those Gadget Drones). Which is to show how relying on TSAB word-of-mouth is a mistake...

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Originally Posted by rtwesen View Post
ok let's see:
You're saying that we should judge nanoha's teaching skills based on the quality of students she produces.

Firstly:
You're talking as if everything they did wrong was nanoha's fault. It IS, in terms of military hierarchy, but in terms of teaching, the students themselves need to be able to apply what they were taught. That is not in the control of nanoha.
The best teacher in the world can teach everything to a kid, but ultimately, it's up to the kid to apply and use it.
I've got two choices here:
1) Assume that Nanoha is doing OK, and the student's raw material suck.
2) Assume that the student's actually had the raw material, and Nanoha sucks.

Considering that at least Teana and Subaru were recommended by their old commander as the top of their battalion, it seems clear that she already had the pick of the C->B rank raw material. Erio also has to be quite good to have received the B-rank at his age, according to Teana, so he's an elite there too.

Unless I am to assume that Midchildrans are somehow mentally inferior to Earth norm, which does not seem to be the case, I have to assume that the "pick of the TSAB" is at least trainable by Terran standards. Then, if the raw material is OK, who is responsible. The Training Officer, Nanoha, of course.

She seems to be doing a good job (or at least putting in substantial effort) in teaching them personal fighting skills, but she's not doing much for dedicated tactical or moral-psychological training (in fact, I don't even remember a single session of this, which suggests maybe it didn't happen).

Quote:
Secondly (to your previous previous post!):
even if there wasn't any type of 'graduation' and advanced unit training(?) is continuous, it's clear that the forwards haven't be taught everything nanoha intended to, yet. If you judge nanoha's teaching on the results, wait until she actually produces results. If you're halfway through writing an essay and someone reads it, most likely than not, it'd be shitter than it should be.
No commander ever really had enough time to train his troops, unless they already know more than him. There is always something you feel like teaching them. The point is to impart what is important by the IOC date, such as common sense on the battlefield.

Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2007-09-02 at 08:21.
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Old 2007-09-02, 09:11   Link #354
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I need to get this off my chest...

[RANT ON!]

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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
However, Nanoha is hailed as one of the greatest insctructors in years. She has hundreds of satisfied students.

To bounce back your analogy "She burned 3 cakes, does that make her a bad baker when the shop is filled with good ones?"

Following thru...
On the subject of results, performance and whatnot in StrikerS, there's also the glaring fact that the three Aces are collectively known to be the best in their fields. Despite the tear-inducing way they portray the chain of command in TSAB (and sadly, Hayate more so compared to the other two), they seem to be expecting us to give them the benefit of the doubt.

While I'm willing to give the writers some slack in their writing, the way they show TSAB as a whole in their methods of dealing with the recent incidents speaks a whole lot about their standards...

I'm not going to start arguing with arkhangelsk and Mirificus about military and combat tactics, because I agree with them to some degree as well. However, the way TSAB works and how the military on Earth works are obviously different on several points. So I'm not really that rattled about how RF6 failed in episode 17 in general. I see the game as rigged, anyway. And they are obviously not subject to follow real life and Earth military doctrine to the last frickin minor detail down to microscopic levels. That much I can forgive and attribute to faulty writing. Only the Aces' unfounded overconfidence and the no device inside matter gained a noticeable from me. (Kitto, daijoubu? Oh please...)

What really bothers is how they seem to be portraying the TSAB (at least GC) as completely redshirt-only material. And almost the ENTIRE gamut of higher-ups in general...

If I am to complain about how the splitting up prior to the Cradle attack, I have to notice first that NONE of the more experienced (Chrono, Admiral Midget, Lindy, NOBODY) complained about how RF6 moved out. So to THEM, (NON-Earthlings, Aliens, Out-worlders, whatever you want to call them) it was a sound plan. Again, a seeming invalid point to complain about aside from maybe saying it's needed for dramatics, which wasn't too nicely portrayed at all for some.

And on the subject of storytelling and plot, one sentence. Excessive Vivio and NXF fanservice. No need to elaborate.

About character development...

Nanoha = No complaints. It's HER season in particular after all. (Director's comment)

Fate = Fine... Except that she seems to be too pissed with Jail for her own good. Professionalism?

Hayate = SHAFT BREAKER'D. So much so that it can make one cry. Third main character. Third Ace. Self-guilt. Living tool angle. CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! Down, down the drain... Made to look like a side-character. Relegated to an almost defenseless nuker for plot-convenience. (Yes, yes. Her output is so incredibly high that she can't control it well without Rein, as stated in episode 2. But please! Those producers just HAD to add insult to injury by making her neglect close-range basic defense. This isn't even about tactics! This is about common sense, already!)(Still, they can make her just overly humble and make her appear not as bad in melee as she claims, maybe even for a fourth season if they make one, but until they do so, a vein will keep on pulsing above my head.) A field season for torturing Hayate fans... (such as myself) Tactics? I can forgive. It's TSAB after all. And more about her plight courtesy of KoizumiAcous. But that's little solace...

Subaru = Okay. She's a cyborg. A cyborg who is even less straight than rainbows (I so got more yuri vibes in SubaruXTeana in one season compared to NXF in all seasons+Sound Stages+manga combined) And then? Given hardly half an episode of explanation and were back to happy-happy days again. Well, I'd say that she was developed enough.

Teana = Well developed. At least she passed.

Ginga = Not enough in my opinion. Nice Drill-arm there.

Erio = Project F. Okay. We're done. That seemed to be what the producers were gunning for. Oh, and yeah. He takes the carrots for Caro.

Caro = She can summon. She was banished. Can summon BahamutVoltaire and is now trying to befriend a girl she hardly knows... That's it?

Fried = KYU! KYUU! KYUKURU~! Period. Oh. And you so looked like a parrot during episode 22.

Rein = Ehh... Perhaps. A better and whole lot more useful MOE character compared to Vivio.

Signum = Too little screentime and combat...

Vita = More developed than the rest of the Ancient Belka troupe.

Shamal = Ehh... maybe.

Zafira = GAR speech only allowed after being royally pwned by a cyborg dual-lightsaber chick and a reverse-trap. I can still see a small glimmer of hope...

Vice = I'm sensing a bit more. Will wait for the future episodes...

Aina = More development than Zafira... And to think she's a random maid...

Carym = Fortune teller and is always with Chrono. Could have been developed more.

Acous = Hinted to be possibly better than the Aces in the manga... Shafted in the Jail infiltration. Where is he?

Schach = Acous' nanny some years ago. A AAA-land mage. Has Tonfas...

Chrono = Likes to hang out with Carym and still can't resist the compelling pull of sisconism. What was he investigating undercover by the way? Stinger Blade: Execution Shaft'ed.

Lutecia = Not enough, not nearly enough. NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH! And now she's about to be befriended by almost complete strangers.. She should have been a bigger focus compared to Vivio...

Zest = Only Agito seems to be affected. And yeah, 'Breaker of Armed Devices.'

Agito = Hotblooded Unison Device that loves her 'Danna.' Oh. And possible Signum Unison partner in the future.

Numbers = Need more work. A whole lot more work.

Jail = At least they got him right.

Regius = Fatso dickhead. Zest's friend.

Auris = Due? I wish she was Due.

[/RANT OVER]

<BIG sigh>

There... I feel better... Just my opinions.
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Old 2007-09-02, 09:14   Link #355
Mirificus
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
The problem is that we can see those 4 students, and we see the 296 others only by reputation.
We've been told that Nanoha is a great instructor but we haven't necessarily been shown that. Given that she's seen as top-flight TSAB instructor, it does make you wonder about the rest.

Quote:
Unless I am to assume that Midchildrans are somehow mentally inferior to Earth norm, which does not seem to be the case, I have to assume that the "pick of the TSAB" is at least trainable by Terran standards. Then, if the raw material is OK, who is responsible. The Training Officer, Nanoha, of course.
The incident where Nanoha got herself in a position where she had to shoot Teana is definitely a training failure. As Nanoha herself admits and the follow-up episode demonstrates, it would have been avoidable if Nanoha had done a better job of communicating her intentions.

Communicating your intentions so that your subordinates understand them fully is one of the most basic skills of an officer.

Quote:
She seems to be doing a good job (or at least putting in substantial effort) in teaching them personal fighting skills, but she's not doing much for dedicated tactical or moral-psychological training (in fact, I don't even remember a single session of this, which suggests maybe it didn't happen).
Well there were two panels of battlefield philosophy in A's to Strikers by Nanoha when Hayate and her were teaching Rein about AMFs. While we haven't seen dedicated tactical or moral-psychological training, it may still have happened off-screen because the writers didn't feel like it was exciting enough. The battlefield results are such, however, that whether such training was ineffective or if they were taught at all are practically indistinguishable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
However, Nanoha is hailed as one of the greatest insctructors in years. She has hundreds of satisfied students.

To bounce back your analogy "She burned 3 cakes, does that make her a bad baker when the shop is filled with good ones?"

I also fail to see the three. I can understand viewing Subaru as the two -though I don't agree with it- but who would be the three?
1st is Subaru
2nd is Teana
3rd is Caro

First there was Caro's reactions in the sewers. After clearing their way through waves of hostile drones. Caro finds the relic case and picks it up only to be attacked by Garyu. Moments later when Lutecia pick it up, instead of alerting any of her squad-mates, she just runs straight towards Lutecia with her guard down and gets blown into a wall before she can get effective defenses up.

Caro abandoning Teana and Subaru in episode 21 at a critical moment when they needed help so she could run off and make friends was a gross tactical error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
To even think that it would work is stupidity itself.

I can accept it if it's a regular skirmish with little loss possibilities and all that, but seriously, they need to think of the situation they're in.

While they're wasting time, Teana's under heavy fire, Subaru's getting her ass kicked, Ground grunts are getting royally owned left and right, and Mid-childa is under a gigantic timebomb named Cradle.

This isn't Jewel Seed or some no-name Non-Managed World suffering threat of destruction. We're talking a central part of TSAB, arguably the Capital World of Interdimensional Worlds suffering the threat of being obliterated in less than 2 hours.
Yes, it can be difficult to train the right reactions into people in combat situations but that is the whole point of training.

Edit: arkhangelsk: you should check your PMs
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Old 2007-09-02, 10:09   Link #356
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Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05 View Post
EDIT: The "final thoughts and impressions" thread doesn't start until the last episode has aired right?...I'm guessing that once that thread is created, everyone will truly speak their mind on how StrikerS turned out to be...
LOL here's mine in advance:good characters and music,poor story,crappy animation,and a whole waste of seiyuu voice acting.

Last edited by Nemesis; 2007-09-02 at 10:24.
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Old 2007-09-02, 10:32   Link #357
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Originally Posted by Mirificus View Post
The incident where Nanoha got herself in a position where she had to shoot Teana is definitely a training failure. As Nanoha herself admits and the follow-up episode demonstrates, it would have been avoidable if Nanoha had done a better job of communicating her intentions.
Well, it apparently hit a trauma spot, but still it can't have been hard to explain this without mentioning the incident - since you have already decided that her melee training will start soon, why not just tell them that they are doing well, that another phase of training will be starting in another two weeks?

The training plan is not a secret, you know...

Quote:
Well there were two panels of battlefield philosophy in A's to Strikers by Nanoha when Hayate and her were teaching Rein about AMFs. While we haven't seen dedicated tactical or moral-psychological training, it may still have happened off-screen because the writers didn't feel like it was exciting enough. The battlefield results are such that whether such training was ineffective or if they were taught at all are practically indistinguishable.
If they can show a scene of a briefing by Hayate, they can show a scene by Nanoha. An example may go like this. Hayate starts briefing the uppers. She gets to the part about the drones, and then we switch to Nanoha talking about the drones conveniently (by this is anime-standard) at the same moment, thus talking about the AMF and all that. I know that the Instructor Division's motto is to use practice, but a little theory to direct people can't hurt.

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Caro abandoning Teana and Subaru at a critical moment when they needed help so she could run off and make friends was a gross tactical error.
Please tell me that at least was because she thought the helo was in danger...

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Edit: arkhangelsk: you should check your PMs
I am checking my PMs. Here you go: Post 68 of Military Discussion thread (placed there because it is darn obvious the post is only of minority interest to military enthusiasts like you and me.
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Old 2007-09-02, 10:53   Link #358
Mirificus
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Well, it apparently hit a trauma spot, but still it can't have been hard to explain this without mentioning the incident - since you have already decided that her melee training will start soon, why not just tell them that they are doing well, that another phase of training will be starting in another two weeks?

The training plan is not a secret, you know...
Nanoha still seems to have same fundamental communication problems she had while she was still a little girl. Why express things through words when you can just shoot them or hit them in the face?

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If they can show a scene of a briefing by Hayate, they can show a scene by Nanoha. An example may go like this. Hayate starts briefing the uppers. She gets to the part about the drones, and then we switch to Nanoha talking about the drones conveniently (by this is anime-standard) at the same moment, thus talking about the AMF and all that. I know that the Instructor Division's motto is to use practice, but a little theory to direct people can't hurt.
Maybe Nanoha doesn't teach much outside of personal combat skills because she doesn't have the training or experience to do more than that. I certainly can't see the TSAB providing effective tactical training.

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Please tell me that at least was because she thought the helo was in danger...
That looked like her the initial goal but then she continued her pursuit trying to make friends out of complete strangers after the danger had passed. Of course, that took half of their combat strength out of the fight when Teana and Subaru desperately need that help. It looked out of place on many levels.

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I am checking my PMs. Here you go: Post 68 of Military Discussion thread (placed there because it is darn obvious the post is only of minority interest to military enthusiasts like you and me.
Fair enough

The writers seem to be spending a lot more time telling rather than showing in Strikers which usually isn't a very positive sign when it comes to film and tv writers-craft.
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Old 2007-09-02, 11:03   Link #359
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by Mirificus View Post
Fair enough

The writers seem to be spending a lot more time telling rather than showing in Strikers which usually isn't a very positive sign when it comes to film and tv writers-craft.
I'd have almost forgiven it, but at least don't retconn for the plot, darn it!
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Old 2007-09-02, 11:40   Link #360
Mirificus
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Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
]Following thru...
On the subject of results, performance and whatnot in StrikerS, there's also the glaring fact that the three Aces are collectively known to be the best in their fields. Despite the tear-inducing way they portray the chain of command in TSAB (and sadly, Hayate more so compared to the other two), they seem to be expecting us to give them the benefit of the doubt.
We were shown just how good they are in the first two seasons. For someone who hasn't seen the first two seasons, in Strikers they've been told a lot about how good the A's are and have seen some evidence of it but also contradictory evidence. The main thing they have to rely is what they've been told about the A's.

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While I'm willing to give the writers some slack in their writing, the way they show TSAB as a whole in their methods of dealing with the recent incidents speaks a whole lot about their standards...
A lot of it reeks of lazy writing.

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However, the way TSAB works and how the military on Earth works are obviously different on several points. So I'm not really that rattled about how RF6 failed in episode 17 in general.I see the game as rigged, anyway. And they are obviously not subject to follow real life and Earth military doctrine to the last frickin minor detail down to microscopic levels. That much I can forgive and attribute to faulty writing. Only the Aces' unfounded overconfidence and the no device inside matter gained a noticeable from me. (Kitto, daijoubu? Oh please...)
Forget about military logic. Most shows are terrible in that regard so it is usually a minor annoyance at most for me. The main thing I usually look for is consistent internal logic. The complete lack of common sense is what broke suspension of disbelief for me in episode 17. The writers were clearly setting up RF6 for failure in a very obvious and lazy manner.

Why is Nanoha flying so slowly?
Why isn't Hayate helping?
Why isn't Signum helping?

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What really bothers is how they seem to be portraying the TSAB (at least GC) as completely redshirt-only material. And almost the ENTIRE gamut of higher-ups in general... If I am to complain about how the splitting up prior to the Cradle attack, I have to notice first that NONE of the more experienced (Chrono, Admiral Midget, Lindy, NOBODY) complained about how RF6 moved out. So to THEM, (NON-Earthlings, Aliens, Out-worlders, whatever you want to call them) it was a sound plan. Again, a seeming invalid point to complain about aside from maybe saying it's needed for dramatics, which wasn't too nicely portrayed at all for some.
That would be a valid point but as you already pointed out, the writers had already portrayed the TSAB as an incompetent organization from top to bottom so the audience hardly has reason to give the command echelon the benefit of the doubt there.

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Hayate = SHAFT BREAKER'D. So much so that it can make one cry. Third main character. Third Ace. Self-guilt. Living tool angle. CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! Down, down the drain... Made to look like a side-character. Relegated to an almost defenseless nuker for plot-convenience. (Yes, yes. Her output is so incredibly high that she can't control it well without Rein, as stated in episode 2. But please! Those producers just HAD to add insult to injury by making her neglect close-range basic defense. This isn't even about tactics! This is about common sense, already!)(Still, they can make her just overly humble and make her appear not as bad in melee as she claims, maybe even for a fourth season if they make one, but until they do so, a vein will keep on pulsing above my head.) A field season for torturing Hayate fans... (such as myself) Tactics? I can forgive. It's TSAB after all. And more about her plight courtesy of KoizumiAcous. But that's little solace...
Subaru, on the other hand, seems to be getting smarter. Maybe they swapped brains somehow

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Teana = Well developed. At least she passed.
I liked Teana's arc and her increasing competence.

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Ginga = Not enough in my opinion. Nice Drill-arm there.
She disappeared just as she was getting interesting.

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Carim = Fortune teller and is always with Chrono. Could have been developed more.
I keep on getting the feeling that her fortune telling power is her only real power.

A lot of the problems can be attributed to sloppy/lazy writing and poor time budgeting.
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