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Old 2007-06-06, 08:46   Link #1
DarkT
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Programs used in Encoding

Hi,

I'm writing a starter's encoding guide(not really a guide, more like I'm organising my own "data" and coincidentally making it more usefull for others) for an Israeli community(a noob-for-noobs "guide" of sorts - me being some 3-4 months into encoding).

Here are the programs I have currently listed:

CCCP/Insurgent (something I recommend to everybody since many people run into playback problems)

AviSynth 2.5.7
AVSP
VDUB+VDUBMOD
MeGui
Lagarith+xvid(koepi's)
MKVToolNix+MKVExtract
Avi TC pack
DGMPGDEC
DVDDECRYPTER
AEGISUB
SUBRIP
ANYDVD
Winrar
G-Spot
Winamp-lite
QuickTime+Real Alternative
BeSweet+BeSweetGUI
IRC+Utorrent

That's it for now, can't really think of anything more...

Naturally, some progs here aren't too related/can be replaced - for example, I use lagarith for loseless passes, winrar for extraction, IRC/Utorrent for raws(if I need share/winny I ask a REAL raw provider) - winamp isn't even related, but I figure, I mostly listen to some nice tunes(from http://metamacro.com/modulez/sections/welcome.php and http://modarchive.org/index_1.php) while encoding, so why not include it? After all - it's nit a guide per-se, but a personalized organized data in the form of a guide .

Now then, what programs not on the list do YOU guys and gals of the encoding faculty find usefull? I didn't specify programs I didn't have experience with yet, liek for example Graph-something which is used for wmv files, or let's say mp4-box or something similiar, which I didn't use - but anything might be usefull, advice on better alternatives would be appritiated as well...

Eww... Made a long post... Sowwy .

Edit:

Removed the group's site, since we did 2 episodes of hellsing ultimate, which isn't on animesuki - so prolly is licensed - and even though we do it in Hebrew(so the English licensing doesn't "really" apply) I figured 's better play it safe...

Edit:

Certain codecs pack removed due to possible legality issues which I didn't know existed when I opened the thread up.

Last edited by DarkT; 2007-06-06 at 16:46.
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Old 2007-06-06, 15:23   Link #2
martino
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Not sure what you use VDubMod for, but if it is for de/muxing streams from AVI files then AVIMuxGUI does a very good job with that.
Beware of it's hacks though, it can even mux a softsub file into the AVI container...

For MP4 muxing, you should get mp4box and YAMB as a GUI for it. Or at least I use them, much easier than having to use the command line (though I'm just lazy). Here comes tc2mp4 in mind if you have a VFR video stream and would prefer to use the MP4 container over Matroska.

BeLight is a very good GUI for BeSweet and many other audio encoding libraries, like Nero AAC and Vorbis.

Also, CCCP does use ffdshow, where libavcodec does allow VfW encoding to quite a numerous number of formats, so I doubt that the other pack you mentioned would be required; plus it has RadLight filters and a lot of other stuff that you don't really want to have sitting in your system...

GSpot... MediaInfo comes to mind here. I haven't used GSpot for quite some time so I'm not really sure what exactly it shows and what it doesn't.

Also, YATTA is missing from that list. Even if you don't want to do manual IVTC it has a very good tool for resizing and cropping, and as well the sectioned filtering which can come in quite handy if you don't feel like writing the functions out yourself (or have an uber complicated script).

EDIT: GraphEdit, yes, useful for handling WMV files and there are many other uses for it too (I personally wish I knew more about those).
EDIT2: You missed x264.
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Last edited by martino; 2007-06-06 at 15:41.
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Old 2007-06-06, 15:54   Link #3
Starks
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Yeah, I can't think of a better IVTC tool than Yatta and Yatta Metrics.
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Old 2007-06-06, 16:23   Link #4
DarkT
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I have Yatta-phobia .

Besides, I know my manual overrides, and I know my FreezeFrame commands - so, I manage - as to resizing/cropping, again, I prefer to do it the way I do it now - but thanks .

As to mp4, what's better in mp4 then in mkv? I'm used to mkv... mp4 feels... "new and untried" sort of...

x264... Well, MeGui... 's enought for me, I use Virtual Dub only for loseless passes/crap versions(crap version = non filtered, only what's needed /avi file which goes to team).

And yeah - Vdubmod is for audio thingy - though I don't quite remember when was the last time I used it for that - I think lately I've been making an .avs script and then save as wav? I don't remember - it's all fuzzy... >.> .



I'll need to go google around as to mp4 advantages, since frankly I didn't stumble across any MP4 vs MKV article or anything up to now - I was happy with my mkv... Suppose I'll need to look it up .
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Old 2007-06-06, 16:34   Link #5
Harukalover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkT View Post
x264... Well, MeGui... 's enought for me
Notice: Megui is just a graphical environment for the use of multiple CLI tools including x264, mp4box, mkvmerge, xvid_encraw, and multiple other tools.

Also that codec pack you linked to is rather illegal (CoreAVC 0.0.0.4 is included within it) and I'd suggest not touching it anyway.
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Old 2007-06-06, 16:48   Link #6
DarkT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harukalover View Post
Notice: Megui is just a graphical environment for the use of multiple CLI tools including x264, mp4box, mkvmerge, xvid_encraw, and multiple other tools.

Also that codec pack you linked to is rather illegal (CoreAVC 0.0.0.4 is included within it) and I'd suggest not touching it anyway.
As to the whole x264/megui - I installed it quite some time ago, so forgive me if I don't quite remember wether I had to download x264 seperately or not...

Regarding the codecs pack - I removed the reference to it - sorry, didn't know its legality is in question...
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:05   Link #7
emptyeighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkT View Post
As to mp4, what's better in mp4 then in mkv? I'm used to mkv... mp4 feels... "new and untried" sort of...

I'll need to go google around as to mp4 advantages, since frankly I didn't stumble across any MP4 vs MKV article or anything up to now - I was happy with my mkv... Suppose I'll need to look it up .
mp4 and mkv are both pretty much on par when it comes to features. mkv has softsubs, which mp4 doesn't have (yet). mkv also supports vorbis audio by spec. There's also chapters and linked chapters in mkv. mp4 will probably have more hardware players supporting it. Other than that they both store perfectly spec compliant MPEG streams and are generally very good a/v containers.
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:08   Link #8
Harukalover
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Originally Posted by emptyeighty View Post
mkv has softsubs, which mp4 doesn't have (yet).
mp4 supports TTXT softsubs. Unless we just want to define "softsubs" as ass/ssa... >_>
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:10   Link #9
martino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkT View Post
As to mp4, what's better in mp4 then in mkv? I'm used to mkv... mp4 feels... "new and untried" sort of...

I'll need to go google around as to mp4 advantages, since frankly I didn't stumble across any MP4 vs MKV article or anything up to now - I was happy with my mkv... Suppose I'll need to look it up .
If you don't plan on using softsubs and Vorbis audio, then I personally think that MP4 would be a better choice, since if you put in h264 video with AAC audio then the chance of people being able to play it on the XBOX360/PS3 (and some more hardware players in the future too) will be much higher. Also, I think that I myself found MP4 to seek slightly faster, but I don't have anything to base this on...

EDIT: Beat by emptyeighty...
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:11   Link #10
emptyeighty
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Originally Posted by Harukalover View Post
mp4 supports TTXT softsubs. Unless we just want to define "softsubs" as ass/ssa... >_>
Notice the subtle use of "yet" :-)

There is a de facto lack of editing tools and a sub renderer for ttxt.
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:18   Link #11
Harukalover
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Originally Posted by emptyeighty View Post
There is a de facto lack of editing tools and a sub renderer for ttxt.
Doesn't mean none of us madmen haven't tried producing some in Notepad for testing. ;P
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:22   Link #12
DarkT
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You two just totaly lost me... But that's ok - I'm used to it, I've been a member of doom9 for a bit now - happens all the time .
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:25   Link #13
martino
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MP4 supports softsubs, in the TTXT format (read more here). Basically it can be described as XML madness. And to get a TTXT softsub you need to go from ASS/SSA (where applicable) -> SRT -> TTXT (through mp4box, or some other program if it exists...). And then you can mux it into an MP4 file, however you will only be able to see the subs if you use a splitter like Haali (AFAIK, not sure about the rest). It doesn't work with the XBOX360, as expected, and the PS3 and rest are most likely the same.

And there are no tools AFAIK for editing TTXT subs, apart from using a text editor. >_>

Ending Note: It's a rather messy format.
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Old 2007-06-06, 18:04   Link #14
emptyeighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harukalover View Post
Doesn't mean none of us madmen haven't tried producing some in Notepad for testing. ;P
There's nothing to render styled ttxt though, is there? So it's as useful as srt ;p
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Old 2007-06-06, 19:32   Link #15
Harukalover
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There's nothing to render styled ttxt though, is there?
Good question. I remember messing with some of the sample files on gpac and styling ttxt streams through notepad. They seemed to work from what I remember but I don't remember what was rendering it.
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Old 2007-06-06, 22:42   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martino View Post
Ending Note: It's a rather messy format.
That's actually not really true. It's an XML format, and there are advantages to that that .ass doesn't have:

1. XML is easy to parse. It's designed to be easy to parse, by a computer program.
2. It's easy to edit non-linearly.

On the other hand, I've read from people writing subbing programs that .ass is quite difficult to parse. It is also a cluttered and complicated standard. The only benefit is that it is easier for humans to read and edit directly.

So .ass and ttxt are really formats with two completely different audiences: .ass is catering to people who like to edit their subs in notepad, whereas ttxt is designed to be easy to write software that loads and saves in that format.
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Old 2007-06-07, 21:05   Link #17
Unearthly
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So .ass and ttxt are really formats with two completely different audiences: .ass is catering to people who like to edit their subs in notepad, whereas ttxt is designed to be easy to write software that loads and saves in that format.
Does .ttxt support all (or at least most) of the commands .ass does? If the command sets are similar, it shouldn't be very hard to write a ttxt<->ass converter. The drawing commands would probably be daunting though...
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Old 2007-06-08, 02:42   Link #18
jfs
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I've added TTXT import/export to the todo-list for Aegisub, but that doesn't mean it'll be done any time soon...

Some things I can see is in ASS but not in TTXT: Specifying the border, shadows, arbitrarily rotated text, text scaling, advanced animations and yes, drawings. I'm not sure TTXT/MPEG-4 provides a method for attaching random fonts to the media, meaning you'll have to rely on the fonts installed on the playback system.
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Old 2007-06-08, 04:00   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfs View Post
I've added TTXT import/export to the todo-list for Aegisub, but that doesn't mean it'll be done any time soon...

Some things I can see is in ASS but not in TTXT: Specifying the border, shadows, arbitrarily rotated text, text scaling, advanced animations and yes, drawings. I'm not sure TTXT/MPEG-4 provides a method for attaching random fonts to the media, meaning you'll have to rely on the fonts installed on the playback system.
BTW, I've found the latest beta of Aegisub to be slightly frame-inaccurate... I won't rule out that it could be something on my end, but I think it's worth you looking into.
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Old 2007-06-08, 05:03   Link #20
jfs
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There should be three ways to get frame-accurate seeking in latest pre-rel versions of Aegisub:
The traditional one, using an AVI file without B-frames. It might also be possible when B-frames are present but I can't remember the trick.
Second, with MKV and possibly also MP4 files, having avss.dll from Haali's splitter package in the Aegisub dir allows DSS2 to be used, which should be frame accurate for supported formats. It's rather slow though.
Third, using Haali's splitter (at least I think it's required) and using the dshow video provider instead of the avisynth video provider.

Using FFmpeg for video provider might also work, I'm not sure how well it works.

But do report a bug if you think you are getting inaccuracies when you shouldn't.
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