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Old 2007-08-29, 00:54   Link #1
Ulquiorra
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[Manga] Neji was right!

You can’t fight destiny and bloodlines do matter. He was right when he told Naruto this during their fight. The only problem with his argument was that he was addressing the wrong guy. If he only knew who's kid he was fighting then.

Against both Hinata and Naruto, Neji rattled off about destiny. How one could not fight their destiny. Your fate is predetermined before you are born. If you came from lowly blood, you were going to be a loser and couldn’t change. If you came from privileged blood, you were going to be a winner and strong.

Neji was bitter because he couldn’t fight his own destiny. Even though he was a member of the privileged and powerful Hyuuga clan, he was also a victim. He was born to the wrong father and into the branch house. He was always going to be second class no matter how talented he was. Seeing a weakling like Hinata be the heir to the clan drove him nuts. Hinata and Hanabi were the chosen ones. Just because of who their father was.

Naruto’s whole point was that you can fight against destiny. He was living proof of that. He was the outcast. The loser. He beat Kiba when no one gave him a chance. He beat Neji from Konoha’s most powerful clan and changed his entire outlook. He even made the golden boy himself, Sasuke Uchiha, envious of his power. If anyone stood against the concept of lineage, fate, and destiny determining how strong you were, it was Naruto. Until chapter 367.

We all knew it was going to happen, but it still is a turning point for the manga. Now the story is not about a knucklehead lowly ninja overcoming the odds to become Hokage. Now it’s more about a young prince inheriting his rightful place as Hokage. Now it’s about the son of the greatest ninja ever to live surpassing his father to even be greater. It was his destiny since birth to become a hero and the most powerful ninja to ever live.

Naruto is not a longshot to become Hokage anymore. He’s a lock. Tsunade and Jiraiya always knew this. They all but said Naruto would take over for Tsuande. And if anything happened to her before Naruto was ready, Kakashi would bridge the gap. No mention of Shikamaru who about 30 chapters ago was mentioned as a candidate. No mention of Tsunade’s own personal student, Sakura. Talk about a stacked deck. Would they be as sure about Naruto if he weren’t the Fourth’s son? If he didn't have the Yellow Flash's genes?

So destiny, nepotism, and lineage do matter in Naruto. Neji was right all along.
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Old 2007-08-29, 01:39   Link #2
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Yea well I'm leaning towards Sasuke being Hokage because Naruto will die for him, but Naruto will have his face in the mountain.

But I dunno, last chapter was kind of shocking for a certain sense so maybe the guy who makes the manga isn't as linear as most anime gets.
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Old 2007-08-29, 01:43   Link #3
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sasuke will never become hokage. hes still labeled a traitor. his name is in the bingo book, cant just come back and all is forgiven.
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Old 2007-08-29, 01:55   Link #4
tatami
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sasuke will never become hokage. hes still labeled a traitor. his name is in the bingo book, cant just come back and all is forgiven.
hahahah dude you should read all the manga again...

sasuke abandoned hios village yes but he is not in the konoha bingo book.it was danzous bingo book.

sasuke is more than welcome in konoha.why do you think naruto tries so hard? or godaime sent teams after itachi? its narutos unreasonable power. he can manipulate anybody , if sasuke ever come back to konoha he will be forgiven trust me...
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Old 2007-08-29, 02:00   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
You can’t fight destiny and bloodlines do matter. He was right when he told Naruto this during their fight. The only problem with his argument was that he was addressing the wrong guy. If he only knew who's kid he was fighting then.

Against both Hinata and Naruto, Neji rattled off about destiny. How one could not fight their destiny. Your fate is predetermined before you are born. If you came from lowly blood, you were going to be a loser and couldn’t change. If you came from privileged blood, you were going to be a winner and strong.

Neji was bitter because he couldn’t fight his own destiny. Even though he was a member of the privileged and powerful Hyuuga clan, he was also a victim. He was born to the wrong father and into the branch house. He was always going to be second class no matter how talented he was. Seeing a weakling like Hinata be the heir to the clan drove him nuts. Hinata and Hanabi were the chosen ones. Just because of who their father was.

Naruto’s whole point was that you can fight against destiny. He was living proof of that. He was the outcast. The loser. He beat Kiba when no one gave him a chance. He beat Neji from Konoha’s most powerful clan and changed his entire outlook. He even made the golden boy himself, Sasuke Uchiha, envious of his power. If anyone stood against the concept of lineage, fate, and destiny determining how strong you were, it was Naruto. Until chapter 367.

We all knew it was going to happen, but it still is a turning point for the manga. Now the story is not about a knucklehead lowly ninja overcoming the odds to become Hokage. Now it’s more about a young prince inheriting his rightful place as Hokage. Now it’s about the son of the greatest ninja ever to live surpassing his father to even be greater. It was his destiny since birth to become a hero and the most powerful ninja to ever live.

Naruto is not a longshot to become Hokage anymore. He’s a lock. Tsunade and Jiraiya always knew this. They all but said Naruto would take over for Tsuande. And if anything happened to her before Naruto was ready, Kakashi would bridge the gap. No mention of Shikamaru who about 30 chapters ago was mentioned as a candidate. No mention of Tsunade’s own personal student, Sakura. Talk about a stacked deck. Would they be as sure about Naruto if he weren’t the Fourth’s son? If he didn't have the Yellow Flash's genes?

So destiny, nepotism, and lineage do matter in Naruto. Neji was right all along.
Still, I think the message is that anyone can accomplish their dreams, and break free of their destiny. If you think about it, regardless of his lineage, Naruto was still one of the worst ninja in the academy(if not the worst), yet his dream was to become Hokage. On top of that, he still does not know who his parents are, so the idea of his destiny being related to that issue remains both unimportant and inconsequential to him. Regardless of who his parents were, he still could have ended up being a terrible ninja, but he continued to work hard, got some good teachers, and developed his skills.

I'm not saying that he isn't destined to become Hokage because of who he is, but you have to agree that most of the power he has now came from his determination and desire, instead of from his lineage.
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Old 2007-08-29, 02:06   Link #6
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being black listed is still blacklisted. he is still traitor trash. he will never be hokage.

1. traitor
2. knows naruto wants it. will let his friend have it before him
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Old 2007-08-29, 03:49   Link #7
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Sasuke can still become hokage....but probably only IF:

- He will be Naruto's succesor. ( I mean Naruto will whine like hell to make sure that if he dies....that Sasuke if he wants to...will become his succesor )

I doubt he can or will be Hokage faster then Naruto...he is definetly a runaway shinobi.

But yeah Neji was sort of right...

If Neji knew that he was facing someone who is related to the 4th hokage and was trained by Jiraiya of the legendary Sannin...and was also carrying the Kyuubi then he would've sing a tone lower
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Old 2007-08-29, 04:22   Link #8
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Well, Naruto may be the son of the 4th, but he is still a knucklehead and actually takes more after his mother... so i guess that should count for something...

Grant it, it does indeed put a new spin on the fight... Neji thought he was fighting a loser and therefore thought he was destined to win... and even though he was fighing a loser, this loser happened to be the son of the 4th hokage. Perhaps Naruto didn't fight destiny and was indeed destinied to win; neji was just wrong about what naruto's destiny was. so i guess you are somewhat right... it's no long a "rags to riches" kind of story, but a "prince inheriteting the throne" kind of story... Even if isn't a genius like his father, being related to the 4th may take a bit away from his character

On the other hand though, there is still Rock Lee... if anyone is defying destiny it would be him. Afterall he was born unable to mold chakra making him unable to perform ninjustu and genjutsu; a serious handicap. It sounds as though he was not destinied to become a great ninja, and yet, amognst his peers, he's one of the stronger ninjas... sure he is still behind poeple like Neji, Naruto and Sasuke, but by all means he probably wasn't even destinied to be a ninja at all, much less a strong one
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Old 2007-08-29, 04:26   Link #9
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I'd say Naruto could be Hokage, but there's a chance that with so many other candidates, he may not be the first one there. Someone may take over until he's old enough, or until something bad happens, than Naruto will take over the seat. At least, that's how I could see it happening.

Then again, I could always go with one of my crackpot theories and say that the chair of Hokage will be split between Optimus Prime, Char Aznable, Henry Kissinger, and all three members of Rush at the same time, leading to the first council of Hokage, in which none of the members are actually ninja! HA! I am a genius! Or... maybe it's that other term.... uh... idiot? I dunno. I'll leave that to you to decide.

.... don't answer to that statement, by the way...
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Old 2007-08-29, 05:46   Link #10
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I don't think Neji was entirely correct... Hynata's father might
have some type of compassion and give Neji leadership to the
Hyuuga clan....possibly
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Old 2007-08-29, 07:23   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatami View Post
hahahah dude you should read all the manga again...

sasuke abandoned hios village yes but he is not in the konoha bingo book.it was danzous bingo book.

sasuke is more than welcome in konoha.why do you think naruto tries so hard? or godaime sent teams after itachi? its narutos unreasonable power. he can manipulate anybody , if sasuke ever come back to konoha he will be forgiven trust me...
Yes, that´s true.
In my opinion, Tsunade is putting so much effort in finding Sasuke, to make Naruto stronger. Since Godaime knows, that Naruto is Minato´s son, she is supporting Naruto´s ultimate will, to take back Sasuke, in order to raise up a strong Hokage there.
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Old 2007-08-29, 07:51   Link #12
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sasuke is more than welcome in konoha.why do you think naruto tries so hard? or godaime sent teams after itachi? its narutos unreasonable power. he can manipulate anybody , if sasuke ever come back to konoha he will be forgiven trust me...
Yeah, he may be welcomed, but what do you think awaits him there? Punishment obviously. The degree of that however can vary.
Tsunades first priority is to defeat the akatsuki and Itachi is part of it. If it wasn't for getting close to Sasuke, do you think Naruto would go happily with such enthusiasm without complaining? Jiraiya himself told Naruto to forget about Sasuke since he is the same type as Orochimaru and Tsunade most probably thinks the same.
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Old 2007-08-29, 08:14   Link #13
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Yeah, he may be welcomed, but what do you think awaits him there? Punishment obviously. The degree of that however can vary.
Tsunades first priority is to defeat the akatsuki and Itachi is part of it. If it wasn't for getting close to Sasuke, do you think Naruto would go happily with such enthusiasm without complaining? Jiraiya himself told Naruto to forget about Sasuke since he is the same type as Orochimaru and Tsunade most probably thinks the same.
Why should he be punished???
The only thing he did, was leaving the village, that´s no crime.
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Old 2007-08-29, 08:23   Link #14
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Why should he be punished???
The only thing he did, was leaving the village, that´s no crime.
he left that's okay nothing wrong with that. The reason why and where he left to is the thing. He left to join Orochimaru to get stonger that would label him as a traitor since Orochimaru is a traitor and Sasuke joined him they would be placed in the same category.
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Old 2007-08-29, 08:35   Link #15
tatami
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Why should he be punished???
The only thing he did, was leaving the village, that´s no crime.
totally agree with u but some extra:

killing orochimaru: konohas mahjor problem , killer of sarutobi and many konoha ninjas.
killing akatsuki member: again a major problem of konoha and ninja world.
itachi: another konoha villain for the moment. again good for konoha.

so all he did was helping konoha problems

no punishment but party awaits him at konoha
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Old 2007-08-29, 09:30   Link #16
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Neji was right prior to the chapter 367 anyway or rather he was only wrong in believing Naruto was a nobody. Naruto was the Jinchuuriki of the strongest Bijuu known to man, his genealogy is just the cherry on the cake.
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Old 2007-08-29, 09:57   Link #17
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totally agree with u but some extra:

killing orochimaru: konohas mahjor problem , killer of sarutobi and many konoha ninjas.
killing akatsuki member: again a major problem of konoha and ninja world.
itachi: another konoha villain for the moment. again good for konoha.

so all he did was helping konoha problems

no punishment but party awaits him at konoha
Ok, the only ones who probably want Sasuke back is Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi because they knew him personally. To the rest of Konoha, he is a bad guy. So what if he attacked Akatsuki, so did Orochimaru. Who wants a person who has betrayed his own team twice? (team 7, Orochimaru) Not to mention his country.

As far as what is shown in the manga, Sasuke has killed (innocent or not) waay more people than anyone ever shown within the storyline. In the early Sasuke arc, there was a scene that showed Sasuke surrounded by corpses that he probably killed without a second thought. All Sasuke is focused on is killing, and his own personal benefit. Sasuke is basically the last person Konoha would invite back, even after Itachi. Itachi could have easily killed Sasuke (twice), Kakashi, Kurenai, and Asuma. Yet he doesn't resort to that. If that was Sasuke, then they would all be dead. So as far as the story goes, Sasuke has been a greater threat (not saying he is stronger) to others than most other renegade ninjas.
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Old 2007-08-29, 10:09   Link #18
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Sasuke didn´t kill anyone since he left Konoha. He even told his teammates, just to knock out the enemies and not to killl them. Sasuke is not focused to kill anyone other than Itachi.

BTW: Itachi is totally overrated, he cannot kill Kakashi that easily, and he wasn´t able to back then....we should focus more on the topic, I think.^^
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Old 2007-08-29, 10:22   Link #19
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I basically agree with Hunter. You could never say that Naruto was nothing special even before chapter 367 with him being the Kyuubi jinchuuriki and all. What Neji believed as fate is not the mystic type of destiny but what society labels you. He was branded a branch member by the Hyuuga clan and he believed that nothing could change that. Similarly, he believed if you were deemed a loser there was nothing you could do to change that either, regardless of heritage. He thought Hinata was a loser even though her lineage meant that she should've been future leader of the Hyuuga clan. In that sense, the same message still applies since Naruto fought against what Konoha had labeled him even though we know now that if his lineage had been known by all of Konoha, Naruto would've probably been held in very high esteem by the village.
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Old 2007-08-29, 10:29   Link #20
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Sasuke didn´t kill anyone since he left Konoha. He even told his teammates, just to knock out the enemies and not to killl them. Sasuke is not focused to kill anyone other than Itachi.

BTW: Itachi is totally overrated, he cannot kill Kakashi that easily, and he wasn´t able to back then....we should focus more on the topic, I think.^^
There is definitely a scene in the manga showing Sasuke surrounded by a bunch of people he killed. This was before he betrayed Oro. You are missing my point about Itachi, he could have (If he wanted to) make short work of Kurenai and killed her (way before Kakashi appeared), but he chose not to. Though Itachi is overrated, he could have killed Kakashi easily (at that time period).

Sasuke didn't want team Hebi to kill so they could stay under the radar. That is all.
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