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Old 2007-08-29, 21:23   Link #41
Six
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I haven't read the manga (will not the recent chapters anyway)

am i reading this right? Is it confirmed that naruto IS the 4th's son? or are you guys only assuming?
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Old 2007-08-29, 21:26   Link #42
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They didn't say it in so many words, but yeah, they pretty much said that Naruto is the son of Yondaime.
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Old 2007-08-29, 21:28   Link #43
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who said it?

which chapter is this? >_>

also can someone tell me which chapter is where the puppet master dies (i think thats where i was at last time ... i need to catch up1!!)
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Old 2007-08-29, 21:31   Link #44
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This conversation takes place between Jiraiya and Tsunade in the most recent chapter, 367. For the Sasori battle, start at chapter 272...it's close enough to his death to be satisfactory.
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Old 2007-08-29, 21:33   Link #45
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thanks Quzor

good to see things are finally picking up
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Old 2007-08-30, 01:29   Link #46
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The way I see it, Neiji was wrong then and he was still wrong despite the newly found information.
In the manga, Neiji basically said you are born into a destiny that cannot be changed. IIRC, he did not put emphasis on genetics and all that stuff because he did have the genes of the Hyuuga clan, bloodline limit and all, but in his mind he was still stuck inside his "destiny." So his argument was basically, whether or not you can become Hokage is in your destiny.
In Neiji's and everyone else's mind, Naruto was an outcast and a loser. Him being the probable bastard child of the Fourth does not change this. Naruto did not have the proper upcoming required to strengthen him. Therefore, he lived his childhood as a drop out. Neiji told Naruto, theoretically, because he is a drop out, he was destined to amount to nothing. Given Naruto's "destiny" he is not going to become Hokage. Let's not forget if Naruto had not unleash the chakra of the kyuubi, nor did he learn to utilize it, he would not have amount to this. Let's remember, everyone was surprised when he utilized the kyuubi's power meaning he probably wasn't supposed to do so, but he trained hard for it. Going by destiny, if Naruto remained a drop out ninja who never advances, he would've still been the class clown that he was in the academy.
Neiji's argument about destiny has absolutely nothing to do with lineage and genetics. Just because you have ancestors that are Hokage doesn't mean you are destined to become Hokage.
Prime example, Asuma, he was the son of Sarutobi, you would say he was a prime candidate to become Hokage, based on Neiji's theory. I mean, come on, he was the direct descendant of the Third Hokage. But yet he wasn't even strong enough to take on Hidan.
Other than Asuma, there was also Nawaki. He was the grandson of the First Hokage, now, based on Neiji's theory, shouldn't he have been able to become Hokage? It was his dream afterall. But he died when he was, what? 12?
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Old 2007-08-30, 19:10   Link #47
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Originally Posted by 7thFonon View Post
There is definitely a scene in the manga showing Sasuke surrounded by a bunch of people he killed. This was before he betrayed Oro. You are missing my point about Itachi, he could have (If he wanted to) make short work of Kurenai and killed her (way before Kakashi appeared), but he chose not to. Though Itachi is overrated, he could have killed Kakashi easily (at that time period).

Sasuke didn't want team Hebi to kill so they could stay under the radar. That is all.
No. He didnt kill them. Oro was all like "You didnt kill any of them." Did you read that chapter?

I dont think that Sasuke will be welcomed back. He willingly aided an enemy of Konoha for his own personal wants. He didnt even kill deidara, deidara killed himself, and even then he only fought him to get information on itatchi, again for his own personal gain. In the end, he was just bieng a selfish brat. He has friends who want the best for him, and he blows them of on a constant basis, and tries to kill them. I like Sasuke's story, and Im sorry to all the fanboys, I just dont like Sasuke. He's kind of an ass.
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Old 2008-02-01, 12:25   Link #48
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Hey here are a few reasons why Sasuke will be loved by Konoha and Suna:

Killed the guy who killed the Kazekage

Killed Orochimaru the main threat to Konoha other than Akatsuki

Is trying to kill the 2 of the most dangerous people in Akatsuki if he does then Sasuke will have a lot of Kuinoichi all over him than he already has.

Last survivor of the massacre (PITY CARD)

What Sasuke did was understandable and he did nothing against Konoha even though with Orochimaru, Sound and Sasuke they could of at least killed Tsunade.

Sasuke was Naruto's best friend.

Sasuke is a descendant of the person who founded Konoha with Shodaime (despite what Madara did afterwards)

Sasuke is the son of the former chief of the Uchiha Clan and Police and Military force

Sasuke is the only person who can renew the History of the Uchiha by rebuilding a clan where they do not kill their siblings and friends and he can burn all traces of their past.
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Old 2008-02-01, 16:28   Link #49
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Originally Posted by HiroInazuma View Post
Hey here are a few reasons why Sasuke will be loved by Konoha and Suna:

Killed the guy who killed the Kazekage

Killed Orochimaru the main threat to Konoha other than Akatsuki

Is trying to kill the 2 of the most dangerous people in Akatsuki if he does then Sasuke will have a lot of Kuinoichi all over him than he already has.

Last survivor of the massacre (PITY CARD)

What Sasuke did was understandable and he did nothing against Konoha even though with Orochimaru, Sound and Sasuke they could of at least killed Tsunade.

Sasuke was Naruto's best friend.

Sasuke is a descendant of the person who founded Konoha with Shodaime (despite what Madara did afterwards)

Sasuke is the son of the former chief of the Uchiha Clan and Police and Military force

Sasuke is the only person who can renew the History of the Uchiha by rebuilding a clan where they do not kill their siblings and friends and he can burn all traces of their past.
Don't see it. If Sasuke is accepted back it's because of Naruto and Sakura and the bonds they have with the Konoha 11. The Konoha 11 are willing to trust Naruto and Sakura's judgment about Sasuke. That doesn't necessarily mean they have forgiven him or will ever be on good terms with him again.

Sasuke is not seen as an enemy or villain anymore. But I can't ever see things returning to normal. Sasuke lucked out that Neji, Choji, Shikamaru, Lee, and Kiba weren't all killed risking their lives to save him.

Sasuke will never be loved by Suna since he'll likely always be viewed as a loose cannon who betrayed their friends in Konoha and nearly got them all killed.
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Old 2008-02-01, 19:08   Link #50
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i disagree with the creator of the thread, in my view, naruto was right and neji was wrong.

going by his logic, theres flaws all over the place, the main and most important one being that the only reason naruto beat neji was bc of the demon foxs chakra, NOT HIS OWN. Having alot of chakra isnt exactly a bloodline trait, Even jairaya said it (yodaime was only such a bad ass ninja bc of his determination to succeed), not his immense chakra, now we all know that in this world of naruto, determination isnt exactly a blood limit.

AND even if all that yodaime passed down to naruto was to always try you best, it wouldnt have mattered in the fight with neji since he blocked all of naruto's chakra pathways, if it had not been for the KYUUBI inside of him, he wouldnt have had an extra supply of chakra to overcome neji's techinique. The yodaime didnt have the nine tails in him, and he didnt have a ridiculous amount of chakra himself, so which destiny exactly is naruto following? or better yet, what traits did he inherit from his father cept for the yellow color of his hair? (even in the manga is says that naruto inherited his MOTHERS personality , not his fathers)

Naruto beat neji bc he was right, will power and self confidence is the most powerful gift a human could posses, the ability to always belive in yourself is much more powerful than the ability to believe that u should win, bc everyone expects you to. Real power comes from within.
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Old 2008-02-01, 19:44   Link #51
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Originally Posted by TheNewbSwordsMan View Post
i disagree with the creator of the thread, in my view, naruto was right and neji was wrong.

going by his logic, theres flaws all over the place, the main and most important one being that the only reason naruto beat neji was bc of the demon foxs chakra, NOT HIS OWN. Having alot of chakra isnt exactly a bloodline trait, Even jairaya said it (yodaime was only such a bad ass ninja bc of his determination to succeed), not his immense chakra, now we all know that in this world of naruto, determination isnt exactly a blood limit.

AND even if all that yodaime passed down to naruto was to always try you best, it wouldnt have mattered in the fight with neji since he blocked all of naruto's chakra pathways, if it had not been for the KYUUBI inside of him, he wouldnt have had an extra supply of chakra to overcome neji's techinique. The yodaime didnt have the nine tails in him, and he didnt have a ridiculous amount of chakra himself, so which destiny exactly is naruto following? or better yet, what traits did he inherit from his father cept for the yellow color of his hair? (even in the manga is says that naruto inherited his MOTHERS personality , not his fathers)

Naruto beat neji bc he was right, will power and self confidence is the most powerful gift a human could posses, the ability to always belive in yourself is much more powerful than the ability to believe that u should win, bc everyone expects you to. Real power comes from within.
Well alot of people may disagree to what i am about to say but when you think about it, it is actually the truth and quite clear to notice.

When Naruto wins an battle it's most of the time "It's because of the Kyuubi" that Naruto won. That he survived. That he is so strong. But even now in the anime aswell. We noticed that the Kyuubi isnt an strenght at all. It's a handicap.

- It messed up his chakra control
- It damages his body
- He loses consciousness
- He becames unstable (Gaara's case was even worse)

The Kyuubi isnt an strenght, special ability...it's a weakness.
Yondaime didnt had to restrictions. So there is definetly a chance that Naruto would've walked the same road if he didnt had the Kyuubi within himself.
Anyway during the battle with Neji. He won ofcourse because he had 2 chakra pools and the 2nd can come anytime and is unlimited. Which makes his tenketsu technique useless against Naruto.
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Old 2008-02-01, 20:20   Link #52
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Anyway during the battle with Neji. He won ofcourse because he had 2 chakra pools and the 2nd can come anytime and is unlimited. Which makes his tenketsu technique useless against Naruto.

i dont see why i would disagree with you, when u basically just proved my point. .

but to address the rest of your case, yes, in this second part of the season, the kyuubi (when willfully released) as in naruto calls for his help, is a hindrance.

BUT, go back and read the training arch with kakashi and yamato, they keep stating why he has a huge amount of chakra = the kyuubi, bc thats how the 4th designed the seal. EVERY SINGLE TIME, naruto uses chakra, he takes some chakra from the fox, it just so happens that if he uses regular things like rasengan or shadow clone, he uses mostly his own chakra, but if he uses stuff like MASS SHADOWN CLONE or GReat Ball Rasengan (corrections might be needed) even more kyuubi chakra is used.


so yes, it does mess up his chakra control, but its still always there, and every big fight hes won, hes won becuase of KYUUBI chakra, which is NOT a bloodline limit. Hell, look at his fight with that guy with the 5 hearts, kakuzu? look at the graphics, its obvious that his chakra was being mixed to increase the power of the rasengan shukriken technique, even a blind man couldnt miss it, bottom line is, the kyuubi chakra sacrifices control and molding, but increases power and effectiveness. Are you so sure that the rasengan shuriken would have totally kicked that guy kakuzu's ass if it was only naruto chakra being used? (ofcourse thats a moot point, cause, naruto cant even created an ounce of chakra without kyuubies influence in it).
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Old 2008-02-02, 00:36   Link #53
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i dont see why i would disagree with you, when u basically just proved my point. .

but to address the rest of your case, yes, in this second part of the season, the kyuubi (when willfully released) as in naruto calls for his help, is a hindrance.

BUT, go back and read the training arch with kakashi and yamato, they keep stating why he has a huge amount of chakra = the kyuubi, bc thats how the 4th designed the seal. EVERY SINGLE TIME, naruto uses chakra, he takes some chakra from the fox, it just so happens that if he uses regular things like rasengan or shadow clone, he uses mostly his own chakra, but if he uses stuff like MASS SHADOWN CLONE or GReat Ball Rasengan (corrections might be needed) even more kyuubi chakra is used.


so yes, it does mess up his chakra control, but its still always there, and every big fight hes won, hes won becuase of KYUUBI chakra, which is NOT a bloodline limit. Hell, look at his fight with that guy with the 5 hearts, kakuzu? look at the graphics, its obvious that his chakra was being mixed to increase the power of the rasengan shukriken technique, even a blind man couldnt miss it, bottom line is, the kyuubi chakra sacrifices control and molding, but increases power and effectiveness. Are you so sure that the rasengan shuriken would have totally kicked that guy kakuzu's ass if it was only naruto chakra being used? (ofcourse thats a moot point, cause, naruto cant even created an ounce of chakra without kyuubies influence in it).
You acknowledge that Naruto, just by himself, has a large pool of Chakra that can be used for large scale techniques like Kage Bushin, Rasegan, and presumably small to medium Toad Summons. For everything else, he has been using the Kyuubi's chakra. But, that is not quite true. During the Chuunin Exams, Kakashi and Ebisu told Naruto that due to his large Chakra reserves he was needlessly wasting. This waste is almost solely due to the presence of the Kyuubi. If Naruto were to have been born without the Kyuubi (well technically he was born without the Kyuubi, but since the demon was sealed into him within the first 5 minutes of life outside the womb, it can be understood that Naruto was born with the Kyuubi) it is entirely probable and even extremly likely (due to the fact that Naruto is the son of two extremly powerful Shinobi) that Naruto would be able to utilize his naturally (or at least probably naturally) large chakra reserves to use all of the techniques he currently uses (well maybe not a Mass Shadow Clone). Chakra control can effectively turn Sakura from a zero into a Akatsuki-Killer (Sasori anyone), so you can not say that chakra control does not matter when it is fairly obvious that every non-demon container/Curse Seal weilding Shinobi has become famous because they effictively use their chakra. In fact, it is entierly possible that Naruto would be closer to his father, in terms of strength, speed, chakra usage, etc. if he did not have the Kyuubi. Right now, the Kyuubi has become a nuisance.

Kishimoto has written himself into a corner by making the Kyuubi more of hindrance than it should be. Naruto has effectively been neutered and the only way he can 'level-up' now is to learn chakra control so he can stop wasting chakra and stop summoning Kyuubi's chakra.
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Old 2008-02-02, 10:00   Link #54
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You acknowledge that Naruto, just by himself, has a large pool of Chakra that can be used for large scale techniques like Kage Bushin, Rasegan, and presumably small to medium Toad Summons. For everything else, he has been using the Kyuubi's chakra. But, that is not quite true. During the Chuunin Exams, Kakashi and Ebisu told Naruto that due to his large Chakra reserves he was needlessly wasting. This waste is almost solely due to the presence of the Kyuubi.
But Kakashi also added that Naruto's abnormally large chakra pool was due to the Kyuubi in the first place.

Quote:
Kishimoto has written himself into a corner by making the Kyuubi more of hindrance than it should be. Naruto has effectively been neutered and the only way he can 'level-up' now is to learn chakra control so he can stop wasting chakra and stop summoning Kyuubi's chakra.
I don't know. Without the negative effects of the Kyuubi chakra, Naruto would quickly become a Mary Sue character. Besides, it's not wasting chakra that's the issue for him anymore. The Kyuubi chakra now leaks out whenever Naruto gets upset, regardless of how much chakra he's used. Rather than learn not to waste chakra, Naruto needs to learn how to suppress the chakra when it emerges.
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Old 2008-02-02, 13:57   Link #55
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But Kakashi also added that Naruto's abnormally large chakra pool was due to the Kyuubi in the first place.



I don't know. Without the negative effects of the Kyuubi chakra, Naruto would quickly become a Mary Sue character. Besides, it's not wasting chakra that's the issue for him anymore. The Kyuubi chakra now leaks out whenever Naruto gets upset, regardless of how much chakra he's used. Rather than learn not to waste chakra, Naruto needs to learn how to suppress the chakra when it emerges.
For your first comment, Kakashi is porbably correct that Naruto's abnormally large chakra reserve is due to the Kyuubi. But, I do not think it is from absorbing or at least solely from absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra that Naruto has such a large reserve. I think quite a bit of it, at least half maybe more, stems from the fact that as the Kyuubi's chakra seeped through into Naruto, his own chakra and chakra pathways had to counteract and neutralize the chakra of the Kyuubi before Naruto could absorb it. This creates something of an exercise machine for Naruto's chakra pathways. Literally everyday Naruto had to stretch his chakra pathways more and more, thus facilitating an exercise similiar to that of Tree-climbing or Water-walking, where Naroto must move his chakra around thus lengthing his reserves and adding to his supply.

That being said, we still can not say for certain, and this goes back to the original point I was trying to make to/for TheNewbSwordsMan, that if Naruto did not have the Kyuubi interfering with him, then his chakra resevers might still be abnormally large. Addmitedly, my sole basis for this argument is the fact that Naruto is the son of the 4th and we do not know if chakra reserves or large chakra pathways could be hereditary. I would assume that they are, but that is only an assumption.

For the second, and in bold, statement. All I can say is that suppressing chakra is also has to do with chakra control.

I guess that what I am saying in the end is that Naruto should have spent the two-and-a-half years with Jiraiya studying chakra control extensively. Suppressing and utilizing his current chakra supply seems to be the easiest way to, not only prevent the emergence of the Kyuubi, but also give his attacks more bang for their buck, so to say. Also, utilizing the Kyuubi's and his chakra more effectively would result in Naruto actually being able to utlize all of the chakra that the Kyuubi has at one-tailed or two-tailed mode. I have always imagined that whenever Naruto goes into Tailed-mode he is using all of his chakra, but only a few percent from the actual tail he is manifesting. To put it another way, 10% of the chakra is used, but 90% escapes as waste (i.e. heat that affects his body).

In regards to the Kyuubi as a hindrance. I agree with you that Naruto should not be able to control the Kyuubi's chakra all willy-nilly, but the physical strain on Naruto seems to be un-needed. To draw a comparison to Sasuke, he does not seem to have any draw-backs to his Cursed Seal, physical or mental (at least right now there appears to be no draw-backs) so then why should Naruto suffer whenever he goes into tailed-mode.

Besides that, wouldn't it be cooler for Naruto to not experience physical problems but mental problems instead. I wouldn't mind the Kyuubi talking to Naruto or sending him bad dreams or just randomly trying to take control. A mental problem is much harder to defeat than a physical problem, especially when the problem is a demon stuck in your head and or naval.

Damn, that was longer than I intended, and almost completly off topic (I did bring up Naruto's father...once.)
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Old 2008-02-02, 15:42   Link #56
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for real whyw ould sasuke go back to a pantsy ass ninja village. If he remains in konoha he will become weak.

2nd konoha has nothing to call him a traitor.

OR you or someone in the manga needs to state that they made an some blod oath or some crap.

And even then im like wtf your your seal the fate of 12 year old kids. In this village or whatever in this naruto world. Shinobi's is like a job application they aint slaves of konoha so if he leaves it meant he guit his job.

period nothing more nothing less. Also konoha underestimated sasuke own will and strength to take out oro.

Also as much as i like sasuke i want naruto to become hokage just so that he with his dumb mind can do soem idiocy thing.

about neji i geuss you have a good valid point. I always like neji till the naruto fight. i had a different image of him but the author went the other way. and one of the reasons wy i disliek naruto as a character is because he destroyed neji's character.

if neji had the personality (calm calculating) of itachi and saying the same thing etc then he probabaly would be my main. anyway that ep was the turning point for me in the show cuz i knew itw ould never get as good as before.

I mean neji whole claim about destiny and fate and all that had some point. But the way he went all childing and emo where 1000000 people were watching was for me like ^&%*^*^*
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Old 2008-02-02, 18:16   Link #57
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That being said, we still can not say for certain, and this goes back to the original point I was trying to make to/for TheNewbSwordsMan, that if Naruto did not have the Kyuubi interfering with him, then his chakra resevers might still be abnormally large. Addmitedly, my sole basis for this argument is the fact that Naruto is the son of the 4th and we do not know if chakra reserves or large chakra pathways could be hereditary. I would assume that they are, but that is only an assumption.
I think we have enough backstory on yodaimes history, to come to the conclusion that the only reason he was so dangerous, was his Brains/Techniques and Determination to be the best he can be. IF you listen to jariaya speak, like i said b4, he even mentioned during one of his flashback scenes that yodaime was a Genius ninja (creating techiques) and Determined ninja (drive to succeed). In all the flashbacks ive seen and even in kakashi gaiden arch, NOBODY ever touted his use of massive amounts of chakra , (flying thundergod technique uses pre written seals to summon him to a spot, he doesnt body flick there) they touted his speed (especially in body flicking, bc he had perfected it to such a scale, again, this doesnt require alot of chakra, just control of chakra)and ability and techniques. So from that perspective, i can ASSUME, that narutos vast amount of chakra is from the kyuubi primarily and i think we all can agree that naruto is no mental genius, and you cant really pass down determination through your genes.


Narutos drive to succeed came from being ignored as a kid and scorned, not his genes, infact i do say, that if the one thing that naruto should be very good at was CHAKRA control, and thats the irony of the story, thats the one thing that kyuubi interrupts most.

Now what would naruto be like if his father lived and the kyuubi wasnt sealed inside him? i think he would be a pretty strong ninja in his own right and he wouldnt be such a block head, even tho he's no mental giant and when teaching him new techniques you have to dumb it down to civilian lvl, i dont think he would have been this hard to teach if he had proper guidance from pappa san. But for the purpose of this thread, narutos vast chakra pool comes from kyuubi in my mind, until more info is released, i cant see believing otherwise.
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Old 2008-02-02, 18:27   Link #58
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I think we have enough backstory on yodaimes history, to come to the conclusion that the only reason he was so dangerous, was his Brains/Techniques and Determination to be the best he can be. IF you listen to jariaya speak, like i said b4, he even mentioned during one of his flashback scenes that yodaime was a Genius ninja (creating techiques) and Determined ninja (drive to succeed). In all the flashbacks ive seen and even in kakashi gaiden arch, NOBODY ever touted his use of massive amounts of chakra , (flying thundergod technique uses pre written seals to summon him to a spot, he doesnt body flick there) they touted his speed (especially in body flicking, bc he had perfected it to such a scale, again, this doesnt require alot of chakra, just control of chakra)and ability and techniques. So from that perspective, i can ASSUME, that narutos vast amount of chakra is from the kyuubi primarily and i think we all can agree that naruto is no mental genius, and you cant really pass down determination through your genes.


Narutos drive to succeed came from being ignored as a kid and scorned, not his genes, infact i do say, that if the one thing that naruto should be very good at was CHAKRA control, and thats the irony of the story, thats the one thing that kyuubi interrupts most.

Now what would naruto be like if his father lived and the kyuubi wasnt sealed inside him? i think he would be a pretty strong ninja in his own right and he wouldnt be such a block head, even tho he's no mental giant and when teaching him new techniques you have to dumb it down to civilian lvl, i dont think he would have been this hard to teach if he had proper guidance from pappa san. But for the purpose of this thread, narutos vast chakra pool comes from kyuubi in my mind, until more info is released, i cant see believing otherwise.
What you say makes sense, and the inbold text is something I completely agree with. All I can really say as a rejoinder is that I believe the seals on the daggers used in the Flying Thunder God technique require more chakra than you give them credit for. Any summoning in the Naruto-verse is chakra intensive, so even if he is simply summoning himself from one dagger/kunai to another, to me at least, this implies a large reserve of Chakra, especially if he used it multiples times in one fight.

And, while Naruto is an idiot, that is not say he isn't something of a savant. I am sure we can start an entire thread concerning the nature vs. nurture debate for the Naruto characters. We can only imagine what Naruto could have become with proper guidance.
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Old 2008-02-02, 18:54   Link #59
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i disagree with the creator of the thread, in my view, naruto was right and neji was wrong.

going by his logic, theres flaws all over the place, the main and most important one being that the only reason naruto beat neji was bc of the demon foxs chakra, NOT HIS OWN. Having alot of chakra isnt exactly a bloodline trait, Even jairaya said it (yodaime was only such a bad ass ninja bc of his determination to succeed), not his immense chakra, now we all know that in this world of naruto, determination isnt exactly a blood limit.

AND even if all that yodaime passed down to naruto was to always try you best, it wouldnt have mattered in the fight with neji since he blocked all of naruto's chakra pathways, if it had not been for the KYUUBI inside of him, he wouldnt have had an extra supply of chakra to overcome neji's techinique. The yodaime didnt have the nine tails in him, and he didnt have a ridiculous amount of chakra himself, so which destiny exactly is naruto following? or better yet, what traits did he inherit from his father cept for the yellow color of his hair? (even in the manga is says that naruto inherited his MOTHERS personality , not his fathers)

Naruto beat neji bc he was right, will power and self confidence is the most powerful gift a human could posses, the ability to always belive in yourself is much more powerful than the ability to believe that u should win, bc everyone expects you to. Real power comes from within.
Your missing the point...
The point is that according to Neji, Destiny determines your place in the world and that you can not fight destiny; just as well destiny is often determined by bloodline.

Neji was not talking about bloodline in the sense of Byakudon, sharigan and so forth, but merely, who your parents and family are.
Neji is the Son of the branch family of the noble huuygas... as such he is destinied for more than the average ninja, but also doomed to stay beneath the main family...
Naruto however, SEEMED like he was a ordinary ninja, but when it comes down to it, his bloodline and his destiny is far greater than what Neji's was. Naruto is the son of the 4th hokage, one of the greatest ninjas of his time, and he is apparently destinied to bring about somekind of world changing ninja revolution (or possibly destory it... which, though negative, is a still great destiny)... Neji's got nothing on that... Naruto won AND he had a far greater destiny than Neji... so overall, Naruto did not at all prove Neji wrong; that fight was NOT naruto defying his destiny as a loser (as it originally looked like), but living up to his destiny of becoming one of the ninja world's greatest Heroes (which is more what it actually was)...

this is why the most recent Naruto revelations are actually a disservice to much of Naruto in Part 1... in Part 1, he seemed like a no-named loser who would become the greatest purely because he worked hard at it(fighting against the flow)... but as it turns out, even though he still had to work hard to get there, he apparently has a heritage as strong or stonger than any genius ninja and is actually destined for greatest (more like going with the flow)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
The Kyuubi isnt an strenght, special ability...it's a weakness.
I think it would be more proper to call it a "double edged sword"... afterall, while it does have some serious disadvantages, it does have great strengths; a number of Naruto's victories where he taps into the power but maintain his control shows that well
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
2nd konoha has nothing to call him a traitor.

OR you or someone in the manga needs to state that they made an some blod oath or some crap.

And even then im like wtf your your seal the fate of 12 year old kids. In this village or whatever in this naruto world. Shinobi's is like a job application they aint slaves of konoha so if he leaves it meant he guit his job.

period nothing more nothing less. Also konoha underestimated sasuke own will and strength to take out oro.
Shinobi is actually more like military; and what Sasuke did in the end amounts to military desertion, which is a punishable crime (how bad the punishment will vary)... furthermore, from what it was said about hunter-nin's, Missing-nins, no matter what they do, put the village at risk by leaving as the ninja body holds many village secrets; Sasuke in particular put the Sharigan at serious risk by nearly handing it over to Oro (there was damn well no certainty that he would be able to fight Oro and win before having his body taken)... Also, while it is true that Sasuke eventually killed Oro and is going after akatsuki members, it doesn't change anything he might have done in the past 3 years, aswell as how he left which resulted in endangering several Genin, one by his own hands, and risking the village by bringing a powerful weapon (sharigan) within the reach of a dangerous enemy (serious, instead of training Sasuke, oro could have locked him up); and that kind of stuff DOES matter unless you are trying to argue "the ends justify the means"
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Old 2008-02-02, 19:24   Link #60
wtfftw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Shinobi is actually more like military; and what Sasuke did in the end amounts to military desertion, which is a punishable crime (how bad the punishment will vary)... furthermore, from what it was said about hunter-nin's, Missing-nins, no matter what they do, put the village at risk by leaving as the ninja body holds many village secrets; Sasuke in particular put the Sharigan at serious risk by nearly handing it over to Oro (there was damn well no certainty that he would be able to fight Oro and win before having his body taken)... Also, while it is true that Sasuke eventually killed Oro and is going after akatsuki members, it doesn't change anything he might have done in the past 3 years, aswell as how he left which resulted in endangering several Genin, one by his own hands, and risking the village by bringing a powerful weapon (sharigan) within the reach of a dangerous enemy (serious, instead of training Sasuke, oro could have locked him up); and that kind of stuff DOES matter unless you are trying to argue "the ends justify the means"
shinobi inst military and you havent read what i said. Nor can you actually say or know what the rules are for joining or becoming a genin. As we have seen in this show konoha and the shinobi in konoha for me doesnt seem as a if they BELONG as an object to konoha. Konoha cant demind from its ninja's that they will always live there at least i dont get the feeling they(konoha) tell how the genins should live their lives. So either 1st you give an awnser on that and say yes konoha can say how sasuke lives his lives and what he needs to do for the rest of his live or dont whine when he leaves the village.

either konoha are slave drivers who tell kids what they have to do or they have some moral grounds and enroll ninja's when they are 18 years old. if they dont do that then i care less whether or not someone leaves or does something wrong in their(konoha) eyes. when your young you make mistakes, and seeing how no justice is done towards itachi as if he is forgotten and/or update sasuke id say they pretty dumb.

what your saying is that if some scientist in russia who has great knowledge of godknows what goes to his familiy in america cuz of whatever reason is then a traitor cuz russia says so. Then you think too simple minded.

sasuke doenst have evil intentions towards konoha so he isnt a traitor. a traitor is someone who backstabs you and does something towards you. sasuke didnt do and does not do anything towards konoha so he isnt a traitor.

konoha and you might think he is a traitor but that naive thinking for me at least.

the only thing tsunade will do is ask him his reasons for leaving and why he did not say so etc etc etc. she has no right to tell him he needs to be punished. what she gonna say yeah you left the village because of that im gonna kill you?

thats why i say you either tell the rules for joining as a genin and talk about the moral issues with regards of 12 year old being genin or simply dont whine about this issue cuz it doenst hold much ground. I understand you think its a traitor thig buts sasuke allegiance is not changed. i see it more as a spy within oro. Sai is more of a traitor for a few split seconds^^

Neither does the author seem to care about this

btw i aint gonna respond on this matter anymore cuz i thats my opinion and whether or not you think its right is your opinion anyway. the subject is about neji.

and i sorta agree with neji to a certain extend.

Last edited by wtfftw; 2008-02-02 at 20:26.
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