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View Poll Results: Lucky Star - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 200 81.30%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 11.38%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 5.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 1.22%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.41%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.41%
Voters: 246. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-07-24, 14:29   Link #281
Amray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Well, he simply admires them of course :P

Hmmm, don't recall him visiting any school but Konata's but it isn't hard to imagine him just wandering around anywhere anytime snapping pictures of his favorite flavor of girl.

The word "loli" has gotten so smushed up by misapplication it hardly has a standard meaning anymore (outside of Japan at least). Many people would simply tag Kanata as "loli" regardless of her age or motherhood.

Kagami (righteous little thing she is ) ... may not even realize Konata's parents were the same age. She's hilarious when her braingears grind like that.
It is one of the very first episodes where Konata is watching some kind of News programme where you see him at a school sports festival, and he says "I just can't wait to see my daughter and cheer her on" and stuff like that, then Konata is like "Oh Daddy, it's obvious what you are doing".

"Lolicon" defines girls whom are underaged. Therefore Kanata is not a loli, and neither is Konata for that matter although people always suspect that she is. She is 17-18 through the series, which is of legal age. (Kagami is of legal age too...YAY!!). I myself am a loli fan and am completely harmless, although never would I go taking pictures...I stick to fictional and stay with what is still legal.

Yes, that is why I love Kagami. Her anger, assumptions, and the general way that she thinks is great, she is just so awesome!
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Old 2008-07-24, 14:49   Link #282
Kagami~n
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And you have to admit, Konata gives Kagami plenty of reason to make all the worst assumptions.

I am not a lolicon fan, and I hate being accused of it for liking Lucky Star. All of the main characters are legal, and not everything has to be about sex either.

But as I'd said, Kanata remembering exactly why she married such an odd, somewhat creepy lolicon guy like Soujirou was something that helped me as a viewer to see him in a better light.
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Old 2008-07-24, 15:22   Link #283
Vexx
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Both of you nail how others misuse the term "loli" and I agree with you. They hurl it at anything that makes them worry about liking it until it sticks (e.g Manabi Straight, Sky Girls, etc). I happen to like small, petite women (am married to one) and when I express enjoyment of a classic like, say, Ichigo Masimaro -- here comes the name-calling from parts of the anime jungle.

Careful about the "underage" definition though --- that varies widely from state to state and country to country (ranges from 14 to 21).
My best definition is that "loli" (derived from "lolita" of course) mainly refers to that post-pubescent period of around age 12-14ish. Admiring women older than that is neither pedo nor loli .... just "underage" depending on what jurisdiction you're standing in.
But admiring certain types of females is one thing --- actively courting them can be something else. My wife knows a coworker who is 40.. .married a 19yr old from his church. Normally I'd say "well.. maybe they have a lot of common interests"... except that we know this guy and he's a spoiled immature brat so its not hard to do the math

Back on track: Aye, listening to why Kanata and Soujirou connect is pretty romantic and adorable in their quirky way.
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Old 2008-07-24, 15:34   Link #284
Anh_Minh
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In anime, loli-ness' definition is further blurred by girls who are really 700 years old, and may or may not have lived those years (as opposed to spending them in suspended animation). And then, there is the problem of behavior. When a girl is canonically 16, but looks and acts younger, as has caused a few argument in the Macross forum...

Re: Soujirou going to other schools. See ep 8. Unless Konata's school has two sports festivals a year, and she stayed home for the first, he has. (Or unless he has another daughter...)
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Old 2008-07-24, 16:38   Link #285
Dee Eon
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Originally Posted by Kagami~n View Post
And you have to admit, Konata gives Kagami plenty of reason to make all the worst assumptions.
Well, she's one sharp cookie for one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagami~n View Post
I am not a lolicon fan, and I hate being accused of it for liking Lucky Star. All of the main characters are legal, and not everything has to be about sex either.... But as I'd said, Kanata remembering exactly why she married such an odd, somewhat creepy lolicon guy like Soujirou was something that helped me as a viewer to see him in a better light.
(Forget Wiki; has KA ever officially stated the ages of Kanata and Soujirou?)

I severely doubt Soujirou would've had the mileage he's gotten on the show if it was inferred or implied that he was just drooling/stalking legal age girls. That'd be such mild stuff it'd barely be a blip on the tingle screen. Soujirou clicks because he's a tease "latent" pedophile and rep of that lolicon subculture/audience base (that the L*S girls are often portrayed as looking almost grammar school age in ads and games pumps up this illusion). His forbidden vices are his titillating star factor, and one you sure couldn't hint on American cartoons. Okay, he's the lovable perv next-door we all can chuckle at like the affable neighborhood drunk, but there're more than a few places here in Middle America where he'd better not be smacking his chops a mile from a schoolyard else he'd be looking for a dentist. Yea, I call Soujirou a creep because he talks and walks it, and the worst thing is there're too damn many suave flesh and blood ones like him crawling around out there. But I think what most gave me the creeps about him came from what poor Kanata said of why she found him appealing; sounds hauntingly like the cotton candy denial you hear from abused girls and wives -- not to say Kanata was.

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Old 2008-07-24, 17:22   Link #286
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Originally Posted by Dee Eon View Post
But I think what most gave me the creeps about him came from what poor Kanata said of why she found him appealing; sounds hauntingly like the cotton candy denial you hear from abused girls and wives -- not to say Kanata was.
Then what exactly are you trying to say....?

If the flashbacks, the care he gives to their daughter, and the way he never ever stopped loving her (he hasn't even attempted dating), doesn't give you the idea that he was a good husband to her who genuinely loved her, then I don't know what will.

His image song is all about how he loves his wife and daughter, too. People can be creepy and they can have sick habits, but they can still be good people. When it came to his family, Soujirou was a good person. This episode couldn't have spelled that more clearly.
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Old 2008-07-24, 17:43   Link #287
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Yeah. He's not abusive at all. As we've seen at various points with Konata, if he has a fault, it's in the other direction. He can't bring himself to punish her, and she's completely spoiled as a result. (Well, when you think about it like that, she turned out much, much better than he had any right to expect...) The worst he is is occasionally pushy and clingy. But even so, Konata's pretty free.
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Old 2008-07-24, 19:00   Link #288
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what the hell?......... someone's on some channel at the edge of the reality dial here......
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Old 2008-07-25, 06:06   Link #289
Amray
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Konata cooks, cleans, plays games, and watches anime. Same as what I do on a normal day (exept cook, I fail at that). I am no spoilt child, in fact I am more than greatful for everything that I have and show it by helping my Mother with things that she asks or tells me to do, and Konata is probably the same. She treats her father really well and they are a really happy family, as you can easily see through some episodes..such as episode 22.
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Old 2008-07-25, 06:44   Link #290
Anh_Minh
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That's why I say she turned out better than he had any right to expect. But he lets her do whatever she wants. The one time he didn't was for high school entrance exam where he resorted to bribery to get her to work at it a bit. Aside from that, he lets her laze around and never do her homework, and play H-games.

There was the time where she came home very late, and he planned to scold her... but in the end, he just offered her tea. (Not that I don't sympathize. I'd have been as overcome as he was.)

Sure, they get along. But they're more "friends" than "parent and child". She loves her father, but even she knows he's not a role model - except she picked up his hobbies all the same. Does she even have a positive role model in her life? Yui is as irresponsible as she is. The only one who comes close is Nanako. And there are times where we wonder how seriously she takes her work, but at least she encourages Konata to have better work ethics.
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Old 2008-07-25, 15:06   Link #291
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Nanako seems to come across to Konata as a "practical big sister" .... the kind that says, "yeah this is bull, but ya gotta do it." So, yeah, I'd say Nanako comes closest to a positive adult role model for her.

Soujirou's influence is passive .... he basically sets a model as someone who makes sure there's food on the table and the house is maintained, he worries about her but as long as she isn't going down a really bad path in his eyes - she's got carte blanche to pursue what interests her. It is almost a given that she'll be going down non-traditional paths of education and careerdom.

We're also seeing Soujirou and Konata when she's in her late teens -- basically an adult. Their interactions kind of mirror my interactions with my sons: one is 18, the other is 23. It would be stupid to *tell* them what to do or enforce anything. I supply recommendations, speak up as a friend if I think stupidity is about to ensue, get mad at them when they come in later than planned and haven't called (just like a housemate should). Obviously, there's a lot of trust implied but its based on watching and rearing for the first 16 years or so. I'll immediately admit I'm mapping my own ideas onto the Soujirou-Konata relationship but that's just the vibe I get from watching them.
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Old 2008-07-25, 15:45   Link #292
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I don't know. I don't get the impression their relationship has changed very much since she was a kid. He's taken her along at Comiket since she was small, he's always let her play his games (including H-games)... He's always let her cram at the last minute...

And it was only once, but I think that time he almost scolded her was representative. I don't think he can go very far with discipline. He may have been more watchful when she was younger, but I think that's it. I just don't see him laying down the law, ever.
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Old 2008-07-25, 16:53   Link #293
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I agree that most dads with daughters are pretty much toast
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Old 2008-07-25, 22:54   Link #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post

I disagree with Kaioshin Sama's contention that the intent was to make us feel for Kanata in particular. The scene, I thought, intended to add another dimension to the Izumi family. We've seen how they live, all throughout the series; Kanata was, in a way, an embodiment of their (particularly Soujirou's) past. I didn't think there was too much more they could do. If they were to really dwell on establishing the nature of the relationship between wife and husband, mother and daughter, and do so constantly, throughout the series, the veiled attempt to ram sentimentalism down our throats would have become pretty transparent, particularly in a series like this, which is mostly facetious. No, I think one scene like this works well, but too many more becomes just that, "too many". What more could they do? Not much, really. Less is more. I just wish the series realized this in a few more instances than just this one.
Well I'll go a step further and contend that it would have worked better if they didn't try to have that scene. That way she just remains a solemn memory in Soujirou and Konata's life that the viewer can only wonder about, which works fine. By having that scene we have to realize the fact that we have no real reason to react or care much about it and by showing her it takes the mystery out of her entirely. So yeah, I think the scene had no reason to exist as there was no reason to make her a sub-character, nor was it really of any consequence in the end. It just felt out of place with the rest of the entire series.

And after all less is apparently more so I mean......
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Old 2008-07-26, 16:44   Link #295
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My favorite episode of the show. Even people who normally find the show boring can't help but appreciate this. An easy 10.
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Old 2008-08-11, 07:07   Link #296
Amray
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I watched episode 22 again for the second time last night. With surround sound ofcourse.

Ah! It was even more beautiful than I remember! The part where it shows flashbacks of Kanata's and Sōjirō when they were together in the past was so nice. Amazing scene, one of the best in the whole series I think. I almost felt as though I should shed tears, although I am too manly for that! >: D

Nontheless, epic episode. I love it! ^_^


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Old 2008-08-11, 09:56   Link #297
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I think the scenes of Kanata and Soujirou excelled in several ways, and departed pretty nicely from the rampant randomness up to that point. One, it sort of treated the second half as a full part in itself, which was a nice break. Second, it gave us a very familial look at Konata's home environment that had led her up to the present, which we hadn't really had before from any of the girls, actually. Third, I think it shed a lot of illumination on Soujirou, putting him in more of a sympathetic light as opposed to the comedy relief he'd provided up to that point. Lastly, it gave us Kanata, who through her own thoughts painted all of them in a precious portrait of a broken family still being held together by love.

4 (Lucky) Stars from me

Starting with episode 20 or 21 the series really hit its high-water mark and stayed there until that last scene (another favorite)

And yeah, Amray, my second time through it felt even more poignant, even though the element of surprise was gone. I didn't feel as "weepy" as the first time, but I think that I appreciated it more.

Sweet pic, btw
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Old 2008-08-14, 10:40   Link #298
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I just watched it last night... It was really a small departure from the normally tongue-in-cheek frivolity and silliness that marks the series, and it really kinda showed a serious side with a real serious topic. It was a pretty heartwarming episode, I think, to start to see why Soujirou acts the way he does towards Konata.

First off, I'm in the camp that would say lolicon != pedophile. Being more attracted to cute and young-looking doesn't mean one is going to have sexual interactions with underage children, IMHO, even though several agencies like to make groundless and unscientific/un-researched assertions to the contrary. Plus, liking to look and having sexual intentions are not always the same. People like to look at cute and pretty things. Everyone loves puppies because they are too cute, we think little toddlers are cute, we like looking at pretty pictures and paintings. I don't think that necessarily means "sex" even when it comes to looking at people. Soujirou ogling at young girls (like in the OP video) and taking pictures of girls in track/swim gear is pretty creepy, I admit, but I found that pretty funny (in a head slapping "OMG, what are you doing?" kinda way), but as long as it's "window shopping"only, then at least it stays in the "amusing-creepy" camp and not in the "get thrown in jail" camp (which is why Konata makes that plea several times throughout the series, I think ). There's nothing I've seen so far in he series that indicates that Soujirou has any perverse sexual intentions with his "lolicon"-ness in the slightest. He makes several references to him "winning" when he has three cute high school girls over for dinner or the fact that he lives with two cute girls, but it's obvious there are no sexual vibes at all, and it's more like winning a game than anything else.

This episode, to me shows why he's so close to Konata, and I guess I can empathize pretty strongly. I mean, imagine (or with some people, maybe you already know what it's like) if you knew someone since you were little, eventually fell deeply in love and married that person and had a daughter, and then that person was taken from you. Konata is pretty much all he has, and that she is almost a carbon copy of her mother (the woman he loved "more than anyone else in the world") makes him miss Kanata all the more and hence he's even closer to Konata than he otherwise would be. Him pleading with Kona-chan "Please don't die before me, okay?" was pretty poignant and summed up his feelings for her pretty well in my book, even if Konata didn't seem to quite grasp the seriousness of the situation or understand really why her father was acting like he was . I think his line "When I hug you its more and more like hugging Kanata, and my heart races (dokidoki)" is honest, but I think he says it to intentionally freak her out , not to mean anything weird by it.

IMHO, the part with Kanata's spirit looking over how her husband and daughter ended up shows that she's happy and proud of how her family turned out, even with all the quirks. The bad with the good, and all that. Eventually she smiles and says how painful it is that she can no longer be there with them, and she walks over to be in their picture as part of the family. I think that was pretty sweet, even if it freaked the two of them out.

All in all, I liked seeing the show treat this scene with a more serious air and show us a bit about the relationship between Konata and her father and how things ended up like they did.

Ciao!
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Old 2008-08-14, 11:04   Link #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagami~n View Post
I'm a girl. I know that if I were still in high school and I spotted a middle aged man taking numerous very enthusiastic snapshots of myself and my friends in our gym clothes at a sports fest (especially if none of us were his children), I would feel creeped out, uncomfortable, and I would want him to leave. I guess the point is arguable, but imagining myself as a subject in one of his escapades makes me shudder a little.
I'm not a girl, but I sure can empathize with that thought... I don't think any thought less than "creepy" would come to mind in that situation. I'd think if he took ONE picture of a girl he thought was cute while he was taking pictures of a building, or a park, or animals at a zoo, etc. (as referenced in a post above) that might not be as bad, but going to a high school sports event for that express purpose... I guess it's amusing in the series exactly BECAUSE it would be so creepy IRL.

But I think those scenes were intended to be frivolously funny for that purpose (as was Kona-chan rolling her eyes as they watched her dad get shown the exit by the gym instructors during their sports festival), but given ep. 22 I don't think they were intended to show any deep side of his character other than he just appreciates young and cute. Whether that came about from his loss of Kanata, or was the reason he fell in love with her, I dunno...

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Old 2008-08-14, 23:19   Link #300
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Lol, the fact that he said his heart starts thumping around konata I think pretty much dismantles your arguement, lol even dead the mom new. He was indeed...A TRUE LOLICON.
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