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Old 2014-07-12, 16:06   Link #1
RRW
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Turn A Gundam "Dark/Black History" Discussion

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"Black History" in Turn A Gundam is the records of wars that were sealed away, but also has another meaning- That of the concept that all Gundam series shows, starting with Mobile Suit Gundam in 1979, exist in a single timeline. In other words,1979's Mobile Suit Gundam's UC marks the beginning of humanity's space age, and 1999's Turn A Gundam's CC is its final stage. The timelines broadcast up to that point, G's FC, Wing's AC, and X's AW, as well as 2002's Seed's CE, 2007's 00's AD, and 2011's Age's AG, and all other Gundam series to come are a part of black history as well (Gundam Build Fighters seems to be an exception). The gimmicks that made this possible are nanotechnology and black history. In real life, history is filled with numerous different perceptions and interpretations, and there are countless cases of fabrications gaining momentum and being treated as fact. In the end, it may be that people only believe what they want to believe.
-MG Turn X Manual
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Old 2014-07-12, 23:38   Link #2
wavehawk
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This is just me and my paranoia, but since Tomino is currently working on G Reconguista and that series is supposedly the future of the UC timeline...could it be that he's hinting that this will be the 'beginning' of the Black History that would be referred to in Turn A?
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Old 2014-07-13, 00:39   Link #3
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If that, then the level of technology by Reconguista would be even higher than AGE, Wing and SEED combine. Quite beyond our imagination. After all, the closest thing to Turn A is QAN(T), and it's still far behind.
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Old 2014-07-13, 06:12   Link #4
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As critical as I usually am of the Gundam canon system, this is probably one of the few times I'm glad it exists as it since I can still just imagine the Post-1999 AU connection away and still not be be technically wrong based on the existing canon rules.

That being said, I won't be surprised if they elevated this to white level status via G-Reco or something. The MG Turn X manual is still in some ways a statement of intent due to how reputable/closely planned kit manuals usually are even if they're technically just grey level sources.
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Old 2014-07-13, 07:21   Link #5
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G-Reco bad ending into apocalypse moonlight butterfly is gonna so cool
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Old 2014-07-13, 10:57   Link #6
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Maybe for the end of RC, but it's too soon to have moonlight butterfly in Reconguista.
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Old 2014-07-13, 11:50   Link #7
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i just want to see the end of gundam timeline + moonlight butterfly before i die
i already imagining and i want to see how chaotic the war situation that the main character or the creator of turn a become hopeless and frustrated so he decides to erase humanity itself
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Old 2014-07-13, 11:54   Link #8
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Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
If that, then the level of technology by Reconguista would be even higher than AGE, Wing and SEED combine. Quite beyond our imagination. After all, the closest thing to Turn A is QAN(T), and it's still far behind.
Actually I'd argue that the Devil Gundam was the closest to the Turn A Gundam, given the Moonlight Butterfly's nature being derived from DG cells.
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Old 2014-07-13, 12:26   Link #9
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Another point that intrigues me is the line that said “In the end, it may be that people only believe what they want to believe.” What does that mean? Or...the first question should be: Who are the “people” that line refers to? Is it the audience, or the people in-universe? In the case of the latter, it should be people from CC-timeline because in other timelines the term Black/Dark History was never mentioned (duh). But why people from CC wouldn’t believe in Dark History when the evidence is right there in the forms of ancient MSs they dug up.
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Old 2014-07-13, 14:08   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Another point that intrigues me is the line that said “In the end, it may be that people only believe what they want to believe.” What does that mean? Or...the first question should be: Who are the “people” that line refers to? Is it the audience, or the people in-universe? In the case of the latter, it should be people from CC-timeline because in other timelines the term Black/Dark History was never mentioned (duh). But why people from CC wouldn’t believe in Dark History when the evidence is right there in the forms of ancient MSs they dug up.
I won't be surprised if they meant both. At this point in time, many of these old things are just legends with no guerentee of knowing the entire full picture of what happened. Kinda like how we probably don't know the entire story of ancient times, at least nowhere near as much as we of time periods that are relatively recent.

I think what it means in general is that a lot of different people in society are going to have divergent opinions and have their own believes and theories on what happened. It actually kinda happens with incidents and discoveries in real life too (it was aliens, no the government faked it all, the government started it all, it's God's creation and punishment, etc). I think the text just wants to paint the Black History as a big mystery.
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Old 2014-07-14, 04:46   Link #11
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Another point that intrigues me is the line that said “In the end, it may be that people only believe what they want to believe.” What does that mean?
- I always thought it was self-explanatory. If you believe something, no matter how outlandish you will always find 'facts' that will fit your belief.

It's a criticism of human beings as a whole.
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Old 2014-07-14, 05:24   Link #12
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Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
- I always thought it was self-explanatory. If you believe something, no matter how outlandish you will always find 'facts' that will fit your belief.

It's a criticism of human beings as a whole.
Actually, I was more focusing on the "people" part of the line. And SonicSP's answer makes enough sense.
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Old 2014-07-14, 05:30   Link #13
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Hmm... This is one of few times I do hate it with 'God' trying to incoporate different timelines. Just like with Megaman - What is the point of Rock, Blue, X, Zero's sacrifice if the world still end up with Legend? The same with Amuro Ray. It makes everything so bleak.
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Old 2014-07-14, 06:08   Link #14
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Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Hmm... This is one of few times I do hate it with 'God' trying to incoporate different timelines. Just like with Megaman - What is the point of Rock, Blue, X, Zero's sacrifice if the world still end up with Legend? The same with Amuro Ray. It makes everything so bleak.
Well, considering the bleakness in the UC timeline was already carried out in Victory... And now again in G-Reco... Dark History is just another element of that overall theme.
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Old 2014-07-14, 06:55   Link #15
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Well, considering the bleakness in the UC timeline was already carried out in Victory... And now again in G-Reco... Dark History is just another element of that overall theme.
A lot would never consider F-91, Crossbone and Victory to be a part of UC timeline. The tone itself is not the same. Especially Crossbone.

Tomino should had ended his collaboration with Gundam when he finished Char's Counterattack.
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Old 2014-07-14, 10:42   Link #16
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You know if we were to take the MG Turn X's text, that would also mean that there's at least two seperate Anno Domini calenders (one used before humans switched to Universal Century calendar in UC era and another being the 00 era itself) existing in Gundam's universe at one point or another.

I still feel that the whole dark history thing is poorly executed, just feels unnecessary. It can be a good concept if coordinated and executed nicely but IMO they didn't do that. Still, curious in where they're taking it, hopefully it's for the better anyways.
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Old 2014-07-14, 11:03   Link #17
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In short, it's a cycle of Evolution and De-Evolution, repeates in an infinite amount of time - Earth could has have been destroyed and reborn for dozens.

Then, why Gundam exist in every cycle? One would have to be a bit spiritual to believe that Newtype souls have a hand in this.
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Old 2014-07-14, 11:15   Link #18
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Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
In short, it's a cycle of Evolution and De-Evolution, repeates in an infinite amount of time - Earth could has have been destroyed and reborn for dozens.

Then, why Gundam exist in every cycle? One would have to be a bit spiritual to believe that Newtype souls have a hand in this.
or they found historical records that reference a gundam and some partial schematics for them which is why every gundam looks similar but has major differnces in most of their technology because they were trying to recreate them using that era's equivalent to the originals tech, with sli9ght upgrades to design the person using the schematics felt it needed
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Old 2014-07-14, 11:56   Link #19
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I feel it is non canon in standalone timelines which currently all gundam is besides g reco and turn a gundam because it goes against physics and also it is what ever you want believe and believe there single timeline which all gundam events take place separate from the standalone timelines and we know UC has multiple of those standalone timelines .because it says so turn x manual it what ever you want to believe.
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Old 2014-07-14, 12:17   Link #20
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Still some things are too much of a coincidence in my opinion. There are also things like country names (or former countries based on which timelines we're talking about) to consider among a lot of other small things. Other macro things like civilization being destroyed or rebuilt are generally maybe even the appeare few of Newtype-like people are acceptable IMO, just when you try to break down to smaller coincidences where the details feel out of place.

I guess we're suppose to just accept that these as it is and they're the side-effects of most of these series not being made to fit together by their respective creators.
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