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View Poll Results: What Grade will you give for Da Capo??
4-5 Star (Heart warming, Breath Taking) 63 51.22%
3-4 Star (Great!!) 29 23.58%
2-3 Star (Some flaws Detected) 22 17.89%
1-2 Star (Not interested...) 4 3.25%
This is one damn lousy series 5 4.07%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-01-02, 02:26   Link #301
aZn.Xj
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Join Date: Jun 2003
still weird
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Old 2004-01-02, 04:14   Link #302
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muir Woods
That's it, I simply cannot keep quiet anymore. I must voice my view on the relationship between Junnichi and Nemu.

Look...just because Nemu isn't Junnichi's sister by blood, she's still his sister in every other sense. A better way to explain this would be for example, let's say I grew up with a non blood-related girl who lives with me in my life. And as I grew up, I see her, treated her, considered her, etc...did everything to/with her as my sister. She does the same for me. Since we treat each other as brother and sister, other people see us as brother and sister too. So is she my sister? Damn straight. Just because we're not blood related doesn't mean we're not brothers and sisters. Just like what Suginami said "She may not be your sister, but she is still your sister".

So OK, somehow me and my sister begin to see each other romantically, decides to change our relationship from siblings to lovers. But does that mean other people will change their views on us? From Siblings to Lovers? Of course not, because they saw us grew up as siblings and other people just cannot deny that fact. They'll be shocked. Now if me and that non-blood related girl grew up as JUST FRIENDS, and one day me and her take the next step and become lovers. I'm sure other people won't mind because we grew up as JUST FRIENDS.

You see it's the EXPERIENCE that counts, not the blood. The blood only affects things biologically.

Let's look at another scenario. Let's say one day I meet a strange girl on the streets and she says she's my sister, because she claims we're related by blood. Does that mean she's my sister? No. She's just some weird girl I met on the streets. Even if she does have proof, she is still stranger to me. In that case, we may be related by blood, but we're not related by anthing else. And guess what? I'd date her if she's my type. I don't care about the blood, I care about the relationship.

You may not agree, but that's what way I see it. Sigh, finally got that off my chest.
Well, you have hit on the entire point of Da Capo! But, let me play the devil's advocate here for a moment...

As is well established, there is no biological reason why Nemu and Junichi shouldn't be together. Junichi made a choice several years ago (when he found Nemu at the tree after she ran away) to ignore his feelings towards Nemu, in order so that he could act as a big brother. In his mind and heart, though, his feelings for Nemu never disappeared, and it was quite clear that those feelings were being reciprocated. In other words, they were lying to each other by pretending they were siblings, and by admitting their true feelings to one another they were only accepting what they have always felt for one another. They were never siblings to begin with by blood nor in their hearts. Because of this, they were able to get over most of the weirdness that they felt about it. So, all that is left is how other people feel about their relationship. That is what Suginami was hinting at when he said "What are you going to do now? Run away together?".

What you're basically arguing is that the relationship is wrong because other people (and you) believe or feel that it's wrong. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but consider what this type of reasoning opens itself up to... Many people consider homosexual relationships wrong... is it therefore wrong? Many people consider relationships between two people with large age gaps wrong... is it therefore wrong? (Those are rhetorical questions - I don't want to get into those debates here!) If there is nothing illegal about a relationship, then declaring it wrong is a judgement call on your behalf (based on your feelings and/or beliefs). If you are projecting your beliefs and opinions onto others, that is something most people would consider offensive, unfair, and even wrong.

That being said, it is perfectly understandable that you would find Nemu and Junichi's relationship weird - that is the whole point. Anything that is unusual and goes against the norm can be considered weird. But, making the leap from finding something weird and unusual to declaring it *wrong* is where, I would argue, the real issue lies. This very dilemma is at the heart of what makes Da Capo so interesting, and I'm sure will play a large role in the final two episodes.

If I were to turn the tables a bit, I would probably feel at least somewhat justified in making a judgement call about the final scenario in your post. Incest is illegal in most parts of the world; that is not a choice I am making, it is one that society has made for me. If you willfully participate in a relationship that *may* in fact be incest, all the while feigning innocence, and she does, in fact, turn out to be your biological sister, than you are deserving of society's judgement because what you did was illegal. It does not matter how anyone else feels about the matter. Something is not wrong simply because the majority would think it to be wrong, and something that is illegal is not made right simply because most people wouldn't have a problem with it (or don't know). That is not a personal opinion as much as it is a societal one. (One could argue here that since we live in a democracy, it is the voice of the majority that matters... but that is a whole other discussion.)

Anyways, just in case I have been too harsh, please don't be offended! I'm only trying to play Devil's Advocate, and to offer the contrarian point of view! And also, as it relates to Da Capo, I've only watched the anime up to episode 24... those who have played the game will certainly be able to offer far greater insight!
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Old 2004-01-02, 04:50   Link #303
theMug
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In my opinion you have to think things through one step further, even if the last post made an excellent point.

Why is incest illegal in most (if not nearly all) parts of the world? And what does it mean to be illegal?

To address the why: it is bad from a general genetic standpoint. Bad genes are reinforced and more often then not children born out of incest are unhealthy or have birth-defects etc. That is the entire reason why this is so taboo and illegal.
If you venture into nature, most animals don't care much about those kind of things and it is mostly humans and their care and knowledge about offspring that enforced this rule over millennia, so much that most people think it is an instinctive wrong.
In the case of Da Capo, the state of being siblings is just a label without any real background. Whatever someone outside perceives as right or wrong is utterly besides the point. It matters as much as being left-handed or right-handed. To give an example to those who think about what other people might think: what if they moved to a new city as a couple? Is their relationship wrong there, too?

To be illegal or not is just a society contract. Society has deemed a certain practice as not being good for varying reasons. For not being good for society as a whole, political reasons, public or individual safety etc.
What makes incest special is that it is one of the oldest "laws" there is. People found out that it is not a good idea even before there were written laws. Which makes it a taboo and one of the strongest there is. It is just so plain wrong in the heads of most people, that is seems natural to find it terrible without thinking it through.
Interesting enough, most people are not that picky about laws when it comes to red lights, speeding, making your tax-report, drinking alcohol before you reach the legal age in your area or smoking some stuff that is deemed illegal in your part of the world.

People tend to jump to something not being right or illegal and making it a point when they feel it is not right. But sometimes you should think about why.

Ok, that was my 0.02 Euros on the matter
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Old 2004-01-02, 11:53   Link #304
Mistwrath
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All these long posts are kinda hurting my eyes hehe

But thanks for the informative posts

As it stands, Nemu and Junichi have committed themselves to each other in spite of disagreeing opinions from others.

But it was kinda sad to see the relationship development between the 2 of them stopped due to the power of the magical sakura tree.
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Old 2004-01-02, 13:50   Link #305
Muir Woods
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I guess I could say incest is wrong because nature made it so. Otherwise there wouldn't be an increased chance of birth defects if nature "allowed it", along with other reasons. So what if Nemu and Junnichi moved away? I'm going to tentatively say it would be OK in the new location, provided that they can get over the weirdness between themselves (and apparently they did). I guess that there's somethings that are "right" to do in a place, but "wrong" to do in another. Sort of like cousin marriages! Just substitute "right" with legal and "wrong" with illegal. But of course there's somethings that are ALWAYS wrong everywhere.

So anyways enough about that. You know, this whole thing would be a lot less complicated if Nemu and Junnichi grew up as childhood friends. Which leaves me with these related question: Why did Junnichi and Nemu decide to pretend to be siblings? Ok, Junnichi hid is real feelings inside so he can be her brother. But why? Now I never had sister (have a little brother), but I did grew up with a slightly younger cousin before, and she did have more than a cousinly feeling towards me (confirmed). I guess you could say, I rejected her, unconciously. I wasn't until after that I realized it.

EDIT: Grammar errors.
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Old 2004-01-02, 14:31   Link #306
Zippy-DSM
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ack to much reading for my little mind 0_o *L*
I'm haveign a hard time finding the opening and ending songs dose anyone know the names of them?
and not the songs they used as filler for the frist few eps :P

over all they turned a 13 ep show into a 25 ep show useing fillers other wise its a good show
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Old 2004-01-02, 14:53   Link #307
Lord Raiden
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Good arguments about the relationship between Nemu and Junichi. I guess 90% of this is perty much left up to the person viewing things. For example, cousin marrage in Japan is legal. In the states anything short of a relative twice removed on down to total stranger will get you linched. IF there is ANY hint that the said person person MIGHT be related to you, oh brother. Watchout for the backlash. In Japan that's not the case. Sister and bother? Uh, that's a given that it's a no-no perty much everywhere. The rest is left up to culture.

I'm more one to lean towards Junichi not being allowed to date either Nemu or Sakura. Reason I say that is, Sakura is his cousin. Nemu is his sister, be it by law (adoption) or by blood, once she becomes a part of the family, she ceases to be fair game on the dating scene for anyone in the family. That's just my two cents.

Now as an outsider looking in, I'd date either Nemu or Sakura in the drop of a hat.
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Old 2004-01-02, 15:34   Link #308
EternalBlue
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Hehe this is getting pretty interesting.
Here's my 2 cents worth.
Screw the law, it's the feelings that count. That pretty much sums it up for me
Lots of good points in this thread but I think the detail's killing some of the readers' eyes lol.

On another note, I hope ep 25 comes out soon
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Old 2004-01-02, 18:52   Link #309
aniforever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalBlue
Hehe this is getting pretty interesting.
Here's my 2 cents worth.
Screw the law, it's the feelings that count. That pretty much sums it up for me
Lots of good points in this thread but I think the detail's killing some of the readers' eyes lol.

On another note, I hope ep 25 comes out soon
hehe i agree with you on that but only to a certain extent. i would not agree to someone feeling the love to kill others for fun or torturing animals for the heck of it. other then that if two people really love each other they should be able to be together no matter what. It's true that society has imprinted the idea of right and wrong into our minds but it's our responsiblity as adult and teenagers to grow up and make our own decisions.

Yes incest is wrong according to society b/c of genetic causing birth defects but what if they don't have any kids. what will happen then? also it's only an increase chance that birth defects will happen so it also means that two normal human beings that aren't related in any way can also have a child with birth defects. in the old days mostly in asian countries but other countries as will to have cousin marriage b/c they want to keep their genes within a certain group and preserve certain traits. it wasn't a problem until people started inbreeding like crazy one generation after the next and on and on.. That is why incest became a problem b/c after so many generation the genes started repeating itself which cause child defects.

so why should it matter if two people that are only siblings by socities view can't be together when none of the above has anything to do with them. i must say that our generation is starting to open up to stuff that decades ago would become a major crime like gay and lesbians being together and even getting married. we aren't has closed minded as we used to be but some still live in the past and refuse to accept the present. if you watch fushigi yuugi ova 2 there was a bro and sis in love with one another but when their tribe found out they were force to jump off a cliff and die together. i know it's only anime but it doesn't mean that it has happen in real life.

another example is a bro and sis separated at birth they have the same father but different mother. they were madly in love and even slept together they were happy. until they found out the truth between them and she committed suicide b/c she learned from society that it was wrong. if they never found out that they were sibling then the ending will be different. why does death have to happen before people can change their views on something like the 9/11...

oh sorrie i got a little off topic but my view is that if you truely love someone age, sex, race, or whatever it is should not matter. maybe at the end love will truely conquer all.

ps. truely sorrie for the long post but if you actually read all of what i wrote then i have to give you a round of applause you actually made it to the end. congrats.
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Old 2004-01-02, 20:46   Link #310
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muir Woods
So what if Nemu and Junnichi moved away? I'm going to tentatively say it would be OK in the new location, provided that they can get over the weirdness between themselves (and apparently they did). I guess that there's somethings that are "right" to do in a place, but "wrong" to do in another. Sort of like cousin marriages! Just substitute "right" with legal and "wrong" with illegal. But of course there's somethings that are ALWAYS wrong everywhere.
Hmm... I think I disagree with you here, but I'm not sure that I can properly explain why. If the only reason why the relationship was wrong before was because of what other people would think, than it was never actually wrong. It may have been troublesome, unrecommended, or unadvisable, but it wasn't wrong. If something is really wrong, it doesn't become right in another context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muir Woods
You know, this whole thing would be a lot less complicated if Nemu and Junnichi grew up as childhood friends. Which leaves me with these related question: Why did Junnichi and Nemu decide to pretend to be siblings? Ok, Junnichi hid is real feelings inside so he can be her brother. But why?
Ah, this is the real question. There are a few reasons I can think of for Junichi... First, of course, Nemu legally became his adopted sister, so the expectation would be that he would consider her a sister. Second, at the time (when he found her at the Sakura tree after she ran away), he thought she needed a brother more than a boyfriend (they probably would have found each other a bit young to have a romantic relationship at that point anyways). Third, once his decision was made way back then, he felt it would be difficult to change the nature of the relationship. As for Nemu, she didn't realize that her feelings for Junichi were actually reciprocated; she knew that he cared for her more than a normal brothers would, but didn't realize that he loved her also. That is why she continued to act as his brother until she finally confronted Junichi about it. I really need to watch that episode again!

As an onlooker, Junichi and Nemu's relationship seems difficult, inconvenient, troublesome, awkward, and just plain weird. But, I can't find any reason why it would be wrong, and despite the fact I was a big Kotori fan early on, I find myself cheering for Nemu and Junichi now. I find myself, like Miharu, cheering for the "forbidden love" that isn't really forbidden. I still am hoping, as EternalBlue said yesterday, for a "semi-happy" ending like Kanon - one where Nemu and Junichi can continue to be together without denying their feelings for one another. We'll see what happens! (Which reminds me - if anyone here who likes the second half of Da Capo hasn't seen Kanon yet, get to it right now! It's awesome!)
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Old 2004-01-02, 21:56   Link #311
relentlessflame
 
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(Sorry for another long post! I have tried to tie in a lot of people's comments together here, so please bear with me...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniforever
Yes incest is wrong according to society b/c of genetic causing birth defects but what if they don't have any kids.
For some reason, this is where things start seeming complex for me. I don't know how society defines incest precisely, but I am a bit troubled in general by "slippery slope" logic. It is never wise to put yourself in a situation that you know could lead to doing something that is illegal or wrong. What you consider wrong will depend on your beliefs and opinions, of course, but I consider incest to be wrong, if for no other reason, because it is illegal, and also because I understand the reasoning behind the law. If you do consider incest wrong, but only when you cross a certain line, why would you consciously place yourself in a situation that might lead to you crossing the line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalBlue
Screw the law, it's the feelings that count.
Nemu and Junichi's relationship is different to me because there is nothing illegal about it, and the only thing "wrong" is other people's opinions. If Junichi and Nemu were related by blood, though, I probably wouldn't find myself cheering for them... That still doesn't give me the right to declare it *wrong* for them, of course, (the justice system will do that if it is illegal) but I would have a problem with it, because it would violate my beliefs.

Now, one could argue that they believe Junichi and Nemu's relationship to be against their beliefs also, and therefore falls under the same provision as I made for myself above. That is valid, but just because you believe something doesn't make you immune to criticism, and I am no exception. If I believe something is wrong, I am allowed to both have that belief and to express it. In turn, other people are allowed to criticize my opinion and beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theMug
Why is incest illegal in most (if not nearly all) parts of the world? And what does it mean to be illegal? [...] People tend to jump to something not being right or illegal and making it a point when they feel it is not right. But sometimes you should think about why.
Opinions are neither inherently right nor inherently wrong, which is precisely why Junichi and Nemu's relationship is not wrong. But, once you start on the slippery slope leading to breaking the law, it starts getting much harder to defend since, for better or worse, the law is society's agreed judgement of right and wrong. This is where theMug's point about judging the "why" of the law comes into play, and that also is a slippery slope in some ways... (although it is one we are often forced to confront in smaller ways, as theMug pointed out in his post above).

Anyways, I don't mean to drag this discussion out too much. It's a very interesting topic, especially for the broader ethical and moral issues involved. Looking very much forward to the final two episodes so we can see how this exciting story ends! And, again, I'm sorry for posting two long messages in a row!

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2004-01-02 at 21:57. Reason: Spelling!
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Old 2004-01-04, 11:00   Link #312
EternalBlue
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Yea I guess it all depends on your point of veiw. Now back to the topic, too bad Soyokaze No Harmony is being released in February, I was kinda hoping it would be on December's disc. Ahh well, can't wait for February haha. I hope everyone's umm "enjoying" the suspense for the next episode
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Old 2004-01-04, 17:20   Link #313
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalBlue
Yea I guess it all depends on your point of veiw. Now back to the topic, too bad Soyokaze No Harmony is being released in February, I was kinda hoping it would be on December's disc. Ahh well, can't wait for February haha. I hope everyone's umm "enjoying" the suspense for the next episode
I'm sorry for getting carried away.... Please forgive me everyone....

Anyways, any idea what else is going to be on February's CD?

Also, it never ceases to amaze me how expensive anime DVDs are in Japan. I'm sure you've all seen that the Da Capo DVDs are 9800 Yen ($90+ US) for six episodes. By the time I imported them to Canada, it would probably cost me over $150 CDN per DVD! Why is it so expensive?!? I really hope this gets licensed at some point (but not in the next few weeks!), because I'd love to add this series to my DVD collection....
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Old 2004-01-04, 17:43   Link #314
EternalBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
I'm sorry for getting carried away.... Please forgive me everyone....

Anyways, any idea what else is going to be on February's CD?

Also, it never ceases to amaze me how expensive anime DVDs are in Japan. I'm sure you've all seen that the Da Capo DVDs are 9800 Yen ($90+ US) for six episodes. By the time I imported them to Canada, it would probably cost me over $150 CDN per DVD! Why is it so expensive?!? I really hope this gets licensed at some point (but not in the next few weeks!), because I'd love to add this series to my DVD collection....
How can that be? The exchange rate right now is $1 Canadian = 82.9. So 9800 is only about $118 Canadian. Albiet that's quite a bit, but then you go look at most anime stores in Canada and the anime *videos* are like $30-50 for 2-3 episodes, so if you compare that I guess $118 for 6 on DVD isn't bad. Anyway I guess this doesn't help but just had to post it haha
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Old 2004-01-04, 23:29   Link #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalBlue
How can that be? The exchange rate right now is $1 Canadian = 82.9. So 9800 is only about $118 Canadian. Albiet that's quite a bit, but then you go look at most anime stores in Canada and the anime *videos* are like $30-50 for 2-3 episodes, so if you compare that I guess $118 for 6 on DVD isn't bad. Anyway I guess this doesn't help but just had to post it haha
Well, it's the stupid taxes and duty that get's you, also. There'd be about $8 GST, they might choose to charge the $9 PST also, and who knows what they'll decide to charge as a handling fee (sometimes it's as much as $15 - $20).

In any case, it won't help me much, because without the subs I'm lost! I guess I'll just have to wait until it hopefully gets licensed...
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Old 2004-01-05, 17:43   Link #316
WeeJie354
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hi! About the Cds..... anyone from Singapore know where to get the Cd?
pls tell me where can in get it.....
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Old 2004-01-06, 20:31   Link #317
(^_^)
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hi....for those who have seen the Da Capo music video.....do u kno where i can dl the song??
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Old 2004-01-06, 22:15   Link #318
bluemist
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Join Date: May 2003
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I got a lot of image songs of Da Capo, but since I don't have the music video (I downloaded Ricebox versions of ep. 1-7), can't help you there.

I wanna ask though if Kotori's image song was already released, you know, the one she sang suring the festival episode.
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Old 2004-01-06, 22:30   Link #319
EternalBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemist
I got a lot of image songs of Da Capo, but since I don't have the music video (I downloaded Ricebox versions of ep. 1-7), can't help you there.

I wanna ask though if Kotori's image song was already released, you know, the one she sang suring the festival episode.

There's a Da Capo Music Video out?!? I never knew that!! Where is it?

Oh and Kotori's image song isn't out yet, it's supposed to be released in February -___-; guess we'll have to wait lol
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Old 2004-01-06, 23:04   Link #320
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u can get the music video here: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/memb...user_id=146226
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