AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Bleach

Notices

View Poll Results: Do you like Ichimaru Gin?
Yes! 331 68.11%
No! 65 13.37%
Don't hate him, nor do I like him. I've issues. What now? 90 18.52%
Voters: 486. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-09-13, 13:27   Link #181
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitsuomi1971 View Post
Interesting...a spoiler without an actual spoiler
Seriously, it's bleach. Nobody dies in bleach rule... And you're talking about a character who places top 10 (iirc) in the character polls. And there are plenty of hints, like ichigo grabbing grimmjow as he falls (future nakama probably)

@Langus:

Spoiler for manga:
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 13:32   Link #182
pilipok
pizza lover
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Singapore
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
I like him as a murdering sadist. Why do people insist on trying to redeem him?
i so agree wif u
though not once in the story of bleach he killed .
pilipok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 14:02   Link #183
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scep View Post
Seriously, it's bleach. Nobody dies in bleach rule... And you're talking about a character who places top 10 (iirc) in the character polls. And there are plenty of hints, like ichigo grabbing grimmjow as he falls (future nakama probably)

@Langus:

Spoiler for manga:
1.) How old he was in human years is irrelevant. His actions and mannerisms were that of a child. He may be a genius, but I don't think anyone would say that his character presented itself the same as Hitsugaya the child genius. Keep in mind too, that Hitsugaya had a familial structure to nurture and guide his upbringing. Gin didn't have those things. Throughout the entire series whenever he was depicted as a child, with the exception of Matsumoto at his side, he was alone - a solitary wanderer. This harkens back to my original point about lacking mens rea.

2.) Really? He needed Ichigo? How so?

I don't recall Ichigo being an integral part of Aizen's plans at all really, with the exception of his presence act as a diversion tactic to divert SS's attentions away from himself. Even so, Gin could have killed Ichigo and the rest of his group would have remained, for a time (at least until the execution), as a diversion tactic. Ichigo wasn't the only one SS was hunting down, he was just the most dangerous and the most visible.

If anything, apart from being a diversion, Ichigo was a constant nuisance for Aizen and his plans. Aizen wanted Rukia executed so he could take the hougyoku from her body and Ichigo was a direct threat to this plan. It would have been in their best interests to kill Ichigo under those circumstances would it not?

But even putting that aside, Gin most certainly should have killed Ichigo at Sougyoku Hill but he didn't. Difference between Gin and Tousen in that scene is that Gin saw Ichigo coming, could have reasonably deduced he was going to interfere and did nothing. Tousen, being blind, didn't see Ichigo coming and by the time he'd made his presence known Aizen was already saying he would take care of it so it's not like Tousen would have interjected. Tousen has consistently shown a desire to protect Aizen and "take care" of people who present a threat to him or their plans, so one could reasonably deduce that had he known Ichigo was there he would have stepped in to keep him from interfering, something Gin didn't do and had no intention of doing. His entire attitude in that scene was so very laissez-faire that it leads one to wonder what exactly his motivations are. Are they even the same as Aizen's?

3.) I haven't quite figured out why he despises Rukia and his motivations for his actions towards her. At worst though they make him seem malicious and cruel, not a homicidal killer.

I never said Gin was without blame or that all of his actions are excusable. I'm just trying to demonstrate that there are reasons why he acts the way he does and there may be motivations that we have yet to understand.

I've noticed that there are very few people he treats with any degree of care or respect. Rukia openly said that she despised him from the first time she met him. Byakuya being the noble snob that he is also had no tolerance for Gin who comes from humble origins. Both Rukia and Byakuya together most likely looked down on him as scum because of that - something that family in particular is prone to do (as has been shown and mentioned in the series more than once. It's one of the reasons Renji felt he was unable to talk to Rukia for 40 years - until he became a vice captain so he was at her 'level' and no longer just some scum from the streets).

Under those circumstances, one could understand why Gin would take the opportunity to kick Rukia while she was down, particularly if he was perceptive enough to pick up on the hostility she felt towards him. Even she says he never did or said anything to make her feel that way, so from his perspective at least her feelings towards him would be unjustified and uncalled for. If you were in his position wouldn't you probably react the same way he did by taking the opportunity to get back at one of the nobles from a family who had consistently treated you like you were less worthy of your station than them? I think most people would since very few people are high minded enough to let something like that go, genius or not.

That's why I think he's such a human character. He's not some kind of high minded infallible ideal. I think that's what pisses me off about Tousen's character. In his own mind's eye he can do no wrong since he walks the path of justice - please. Gin has faults and he's unapologetic about it. It's pretty awesome actually.
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 21:50   Link #184
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by langus View Post
1.) how old he was in human years is irrelevant. His actions and mannerisms were that of a child. He may be a genius, but i don't think anyone would say that his character presented itself the same as hitsugaya the child genius. Keep in mind too, that hitsugaya had a familial structure to nurture and guide his upbringing. Gin didn't have those things. Throughout the entire series whenever he was depicted as a child, with the exception of matsumoto at his side, he was alone - a solitary wanderer. This harkens back to my original point about lacking mens rea.

As is everyone in SS really. Remember, people in SS don't have parents or anything.

2.) really? He needed ichigo? How so?

I don't recall ichigo being an integral part of aizen's plans at all really, with the exception of his presence act as a diversion tactic to divert ss's attentions away from himself. Even so, gin could have killed ichigo and the rest of his group would have remained, for a time (at least until the execution), as a diversion tactic. Ichigo wasn't the only one ss was hunting down, he was just the most dangerous and the most visible.

If anything, apart from being a diversion, ichigo was a constant nuisance for aizen and his plans. Aizen wanted rukia executed so he could take the hougyoku from her body and ichigo was a direct threat to this plan. It would have been in their best interests to kill ichigo under those circumstances would it not?

But even putting that aside, gin most certainly should have killed ichigo at sougyoku hill but he didn't. Difference between gin and tousen in that scene is that gin saw ichigo coming, could have reasonably deduced he was going to interfere and did nothing. Tousen, being blind, didn't see ichigo coming and by the time he'd made his presence known aizen was already saying he would take care of it so it's not like tousen would have interjected. Tousen has consistently shown a desire to protect aizen and "take care" of people who present a threat to him or their plans, so one could reasonably deduce that had he known ichigo was there he would have stepped in to keep him from interfering, something gin didn't do and had no intention of doing. His entire attitude in that scene was so very laissez-faire that it leads one to wonder what exactly his motivations are. Are they even the same as aizen's?

Aizen, chapter 175

"you've been very helpful already.... Your mission is over'

that shows that aizen and their team thought of ichigo as a help.

As for why he was needed, aizen then goes on to explain,

"therefore i dispatched regular patrols in the vicinity so that the seireitei walls would be lowered immediately as you arrived. Then.... I sent gin to keep you out. If you thought there was a captain inside the door, the only percievable method of entry would be through shiba's cannon... That would result in a dramatic entrance... ... Therefore all of sereitei would focus their attention... ... Even when a captain was murdered, it didn't seem like such a big deal".


Yep, Ichigo was a integral part of his plan as a constant diversion. As long as he isn't captured, SS will be in chaos and keep searching for him, helping aizen hide. For the same reasons, sado and ishida and orihime wouldn't help at all, since they would get captured too soon.

about gin seeing ichigo coming...

Chapter 174: Gin:"Sorry. I was thinking about what to do and didn't see that boy coming."


3.) i haven't quite figured out why he despises rukia and his motivations for his actions towards her. At worst though they make him seem malicious and cruel, not a homicidal killer.

I never said gin was without blame or that all of his actions are excusable. I'm just trying to demonstrate that there are reasons why he acts the way he does and there may be motivations that we have yet to understand.

I've noticed that there are very few people he treats with any degree of care or respect. Rukia openly said that she despised him from the first time she met him. Byakuya being the noble snob that he is also had no tolerance for gin who comes from humble origins. Both rukia and byakuya together most likely looked down on him as scum because of that - something that family in particular is prone to do (as has been shown and mentioned in the series more than once. It's one of the reasons renji felt he was unable to talk to rukia for 40 years - until he became a vice captain so he was at her 'level' and no longer just some scum from the streets).

Under those circumstances, one could understand why gin would take the opportunity to kick rukia while she was down, particularly if he was perceptive enough to pick up on the hostility she felt towards him. Even she says he never did or said anything to make her feel that way, so from his perspective at least her feelings towards him would be unjustified and uncalled for. If you were in his position wouldn't you probably react the same way he did by taking the opportunity to get back at one of the nobles from a family who had consistently treated you like you were less worthy of your station than them? I think most people would since very few people are high minded enough to let something like that go, genius or not.

That's why i think he's such a human character. He's not some kind of high minded infallible ideal. I think that's what pisses me off about tousen's character. In his own mind's eye he can do no wrong since he walks the path of justice - please. Gin has faults and he's unapologetic about it. It's pretty awesome actually.

Well i guess if you justify revenge like that... but if you do remember, in the arronerio fight, he was the one who was hinted at directing rukia to the kaien. That not only completely broke her down, but also almost killed her. Damn, that guy takes revenge seriously o_O
fillerfillerfiller
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 21:52   Link #185
BleachOD
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE.
Quote:
Remember, people in SS don't have parents or anything
Er...Ichigo is proof Shinigami can procreate....

*pops out*
BleachOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 21:54   Link #186
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Meant that souls who go to soul society are separated from their parents and everyone they know (usually) so they are left pretty much alone.
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 21:55   Link #187
BleachOD
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE.
I know, but Gin could have been born there...
BleachOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 22:14   Link #188
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 30
Point 1.) Yes, everyone in SS is essentially alone but for the most part they have been shown to have some basic form of 'family'. Hitsugaya had the old woman and Momo, Rukia had her sister then Renji and their friends, even Yachiru had Kenpachi - they've all had SOMEONE. With Gin all we see is him ALONE until he meets Matsumoto and even she comments on the frequency of the times when he would leave her to go off on his own without telling her where he was going. Gin also was not residing anywhere near the city (like Kenpachi he was off in the middle of nowhere except he was in the middle of the desert). There was no city around, no other examples of a family structure he could have learned from that would have taught him the necessary understanding of right from wrong. The first time he was in an established society that could teach him those values was when he entered Seireitei. Think of Yachiru if you want a comparison. Considering the type of lawless bloodbath society she was born into, had she not come across Kenpachi when she did (which was very young) how differently might she have developed? And shit, even her sense of what's acceptable and unacceptable is kind of warped.

2.) I hate repeating myself. I already covered this and said specifically that Ichigo was a diversion and that he wasn't required to be one after a certain point. Go back and read my post. And yes, about Gin seeing or rather, not seeing Ichigo coming - covered that already too. They did portray it a bit differently in the manga - the implication was that he DID see Ichigo coming but didn't act. In any case, it seems like a pretty piss poor excuse no matter how you slice it. Gin is one of those characters where you're not supposed to take what comes out of his mouth as verbatim. There are hidden meanings and double entendras in a lot of it so no, sorry but I don't buy that the genius of Soul Society was "thinking too hard about what to do" and didn't notice Ichigo's massive reiatsu heading their way. Sorry - no.

3.) I wasn't 'justifying revenge', I was pointing out potential reasons for why he may have acted the way he did towards Rukia. Yes, he directed Rukia towards the "Kaien" fight but we still don't know what his reasons are for that beyond him saying that he didn't like sad stories. What's that supposed to mean anyway? If you want to flip it around entirely, one could suggest that understanding Rukia's need to get over her hang up over Kaien he purposefully directed her into that fight. Now that Rukia no longer labours under the weight of that guilt she will be a stronger fighter. Coincidence? Maybe... Maybe not. Keep in mind, we don't know what his motives are. He may be trying to fuck Aizen over from the inside - only time will tell.
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 22:15   Link #189
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
I know, but Gin could have been born there...
Hmm thats true. But in that case gin must have really horrible parents, deserting him from young.... or they might have killed.... and shaped the sadistic gin...Though has there been any conclusion on whether shinigami can procreate? Urahara says he has not been out of his gigai for 20 years. Ichigo's 15, that means isshin had ichigo when he was in a gigai. So it might not be that confirmed that souls can procreate. Bleh... but all this discussion should go into that death aging in soul society thread.

1.There's a logical irony on your side -- you're saying that as a child, he was psychopath and sadistic because of his horrible childhood and bad company. Ok. But why would he grow up to be different, to be someone who is discerning and able to tell the difference between the right and the wrong?

2. As for ichigo not useful, don't forget that aizen was not only trying to get the hougyouku. At the same time, he was dwelling in the royal library to find out more about the ouken as well as the hougyouku. Also, given that it was a msasive reiatsu, why didn't tousen act? As a blind man, tousen's reiatsu sensing would be doubly as accurate as anyone else, the same way people who are blind can hear much better. I'm not sure what they portrayed differently from, but as far as i am concerned, manga's the authoritative. Mind explaining how else it was portrayed?

3. I agree with what you said -- gin uses lots of hidden meanings in his chapter, and that was, imo, what kubo was trying to show. What he says and what he feels, is it the same? He says he couldn't have done that, yet his hand is on the control panel. Would you believe him? Personally i wouldn't. and about him trying to make rukia a stronger person, sure, the ends turned out to be like that. But thats like throwing a man down into a sea full of sharks and then say you helped him gain tenacity or whatever. As it turned out, rukia really only won by a fluke, a mistake by arronerio, and if she even won that is. According to arronerio, they killed each other, so she probably would have died if help hadn't come.

Last edited by Scep; 2008-09-13 at 22:52.
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-15, 08:17   Link #190
Ichigo&Rukia
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rukia-land
Age: 19
I like his character. However, I've never been interested enough.
He is mysterious, but we have yet to see from the three main bad guys.
What I like is how he isn't really a genious or something special and god-like like Aizen. I tend to like normal characters but that's just me >.>

There should be reasons for him being so cruel. He IS sadistic but we can't say why. We don't even know about his past. Many things would have turned him into that. it's part of people's personality sometimes. We can't be sure if it's his parents or friends or ex-lovers. Blah. It may even be a certain experience.
__________________
Claimed by BleachOD
Ichigo&Rukia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-15, 09:12   Link #191
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo&Rukia View Post
There should be reasons for him being so cruel. He IS sadistic but we can't say why. We don't even know about his past. Many things would have turned him into that. it's part of people's personality sometimes. We can't be sure if it's his parents or friends or ex-lovers. Blah. It may even be a certain experience.
You are very right

Just to clarify though, Gin IS a genius. He was brought into SS as a child younger than Hitsugaya and there have been several chapters in the manga that discuss how much of a prodigy he is. He was a seated officer when he was still just a tyke. Sorry if that ruins your image of him at all

Scep: Be back at you in a bit. School calls.
__________________
(This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-15, 09:59   Link #192
Ichigo&Rukia
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rukia-land
Age: 19
Quote:
Just to clarify though, Gin IS a genius. He was brought into SS as a child younger than Hitsugaya and there have been several chapters in the manga that discuss how much of a prodigy he is. He was a seated officer when he was still just a tyke. Sorry if that ruins your image of him at all
Er, I'm not really sure about being "genius".
Maybe he is but what I like is that he doesn't show off with it. He may be the most intelligent person but I don't think he is the type to go and scream how strong he is or stuff to anyone. He just does wha he wants and what he thinks is nessecary and best without many talking around.
__________________
Claimed by BleachOD
Ichigo&Rukia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-15, 21:31   Link #193
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scep View Post
1.There's a logical irony on your side -- you're saying that as a child, he was psychopath and sadistic because of his horrible childhood and bad company. Ok. But why would he grow up to be different, to be someone who is discerning and able to tell the difference between the right and the wrong?

Because just as patterns of behaviour can be taught, they can be un-taught, though considering the extent that his personality has been twisted - obviously they can't be un-taught entirely.

I never suggested Gin was a saint, I merely presented possible reasons for his behaviour.

Being that Matsumoto is his complete opposite in every way, perhaps being with her for as long as he was did him some good? She may have been able to teach him compassion (well, at least for her) while the regimented structure of Soul Society itself would have taught him the social institutions of rules, laws and judicial process - for each action there is a reaction, for each bad action there is a consequence etc.

Remember that he did arrive there quite young so I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that SS could have taught him those things, even in a minor way, while Aizen worked to corrupt him in others.


2. As for ichigo not useful, don't forget that aizen was not only trying to get the hougyouku. At the same time, he was dwelling in the royal library to find out more about the ouken as well as the hougyouku. Also, given that it was a msasive reiatsu, why didn't tousen act? As a blind man, tousen's reiatsu sensing would be doubly as accurate as anyone else, the same way people who are blind can hear much better. I'm not sure what they portrayed differently from, but as far as i am concerned, manga's the authoritative. Mind explaining how else it was portrayed?

Yes, but Aizen also had all of SS hypnotized into believing he was dead so he was free to roam the Royal Library - it's not like anyone was looking for him.

Even before his faked death he could've easily used a double to pose as him while he went about his plotting
Spoiler for Flashback Arc:
Ichigo was just a handy diversion for a short time to keep the other Gotei occupied so Tousen and Gin could be free to manouever around. Also, when people turned up dead (like Aizen) he provided a convenient scapegoat.

But again, I think this usefulness was only temporary. Ideally what Aizen wanted was for the Sougyoku to remove the hougyoku from Rukia's soul. Ichigo was a direct hindrance to this plan so Aizen was forced to go to plan B - crazy claw of death and exposure to all of SS. The power difference between them is irrelevant. Despite not being any kind of match of Aizen there was still a point at which Ichigo's presence went from helpful distraction to nuisance.


3. I agree with what you said -- gin uses lots of hidden meanings in his chapter, and that was, imo, what kubo was trying to show. What he says and what he feels, is it the same? He says he couldn't have done that, yet his hand is on the control panel. Would you believe him? Personally i wouldn't. and about him trying to make rukia a stronger person, sure, the ends turned out to be like that. But thats like throwing a man down into a sea full of sharks and then say you helped him gain tenacity or whatever. As it turned out, rukia really only won by a fluke, a mistake by arronerio, and if she even won that is. According to arronerio, they killed each other, so she probably would have died if help hadn't come.
I think as far as saying what he means, the only time this applies for Gin is when its in relation to Matsumoto. I don't think he talks bs to her - she seems too important to him. As far as the rest of it goes, I was just playing Devil's Advocate. You have a valid point entirely.
__________________
(This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-16, 01:39   Link #194
Ichimaru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo&Rukia View Post
Er, I'm not really sure about being "genius".
Maybe he is but what I like is that he doesn't show off with it. He may be the most intelligent person but I don't think he is the type to go and scream how strong he is or stuff to anyone. He just does wha he wants and what he thinks is nessecary and best without many talking around.
GIN killed a 3rd seat officer while Byakuya was still training with a wooden stick, and GIN wouldnt go around declaring how strong he is or else he ends up in Loc Nes.
__________________
SHINSOU
Ichimaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-16, 01:59   Link #195
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 30
^^ You might wanna spoiler that to be on the safe side
__________________
(This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-16, 09:13   Link #196
Ichigo&Rukia
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rukia-land
Age: 19
Quote:
GIN killed a 3rd seat officer while Byakuya was still training with a wooden stick, and GIN wouldnt go around declaring how strong he is or else he ends up in Loc Nes.
Isn't that what I said I love him for?
__________________
Claimed by BleachOD
Ichigo&Rukia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-16, 12:31   Link #197
Amirali
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Over the rainbow.
Age: 29
Send a message via MSN to Amirali
Some nice analysis here, Langus. A few random comments of mine below.(I'll add more later)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
I've noticed that there are very few people he treats with any degree of care or respect. Rukia openly said that she despised him from the first time she met him. Byakuya being the noble snob that he is also had no tolerance for Gin who comes from humble origins. Both Rukia and Byakuya together most likely looked down on him as scum because of that - something that family in particular is prone to do (as has been shown and mentioned in the series more than once. It's one of the reasons Renji felt he was unable to talk to Rukia for 40 years - until he became a vice captain so he was at her 'level' and no longer just some scum from the streets).
Under those circumstances, one could understand why Gin would take the opportunity to kick Rukia while she was down, particularly if he was perceptive enough to pick up on the hostility she felt towards him. Even she says he never did or said anything to make her feel that way, so from his perspective at least her feelings towards him would be unjustified and uncalled for.
Spoiler for Gin annoyed at Rukia's manners:
He mentions her rude form of address, and that "she never changes", implying she's been insulting to him before. Whether that's his driving motivation can only be guessed at. However, the scene confirms he indeed suspected her disrespect from way back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langus View Post
Gin on the other hand - definitely redeemable as a character. I think once all is revealed it will be shown that he actually isn't a baddie, so to speak.
......

Besides that, if he's as sadistic and heartless as you say why would he bother apologizing to her at all? Wouldn't he be relishing in her pain? Wouldn't he be excited about leaving?
A good analysis of the key notes in Gin's tale. My favorite moment would have to be from the Hitsu-Gin fight though. Strange as it sounds, the comings and goings of Gin's smile suggested a story in itself there.

He grinned happily as Hinamori dueled Hitsu, and when Shinsou headed for her instead of ice-captain. Yet when Matsumoto blocked, his smile was notably absent. Even the entire next page, as she confronted him, he maintained the serious demeanor.
Spoiler for Gin's smile momentarily lost:

For an awkward few moments, his sword lingered against hers, pressing as she refused to back down. When I watched it the first time, her sword cracking, I thought he would really skewer her. Gin is damn scary without his smirk and snide humour.

Suddenly though, he broke out a ear-to-ear grin. Intrigued in fighting his old buddy? Sadistic humor at a weakling challenging a superior? Admiration of her spirit? Or simply chuckling at the dark irony of being pitted against his old friend (my pet theory)? Who knows.
Spoiler for The smile regained:

The smile was a trigger for a decision to pull back. When the scene resumes, we again can't see his expression to Matsumoto as he withdraws.
Spoiler for Once again, Gin becomes inscrutable:

Strategic placement of his sword and his turned back prevent us seeing whether the smile persists. Kubo's very good at hinting at emotion, as much through what he doesn't show as what he does. He often presents the back or hides the eyes of an emotional character.......although the reader can never be certain. This scene convinced me Gin's hiding depths behind his face-mask. What it is, I don't know. But good or evil, I enjoy the mystery to him.

Last edited by Amirali; 2008-09-17 at 03:26.
Amirali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-16, 12:45   Link #198
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 30
Damn the cookie nazis! I wanted to give you mad reps for that post. Your discussions are always so well thought out. *dual thumbs up*

Actually the Hitsu/Gin fight scene is one of my favourites as well. I always saw the fragmenting of her zanpakto as the symbolic fragmentation of what they once shared, whatever that may be.

I think it was a difficult scene for both of them (Matsumoto dwells on it looking rather melancholy a few chapters later and Gin doesn't look all too pleased at the time either). Considering their history, I think he was surprised more than anything that it was HER who stood between him and what he wanted. Until that time she'd always been on his side and loyal to him, but in that scene she chose her loyalty to SS and her Captain over him. It must've been a bit jarring for him since I doubt he ever would've expected her to do that (which I think in and of itself could say a lot about how deep their bond goes).

As for the smile, I just don't know. As with pretty much everything else about Gin it's a mystery. Maybe he was happy she stopped him? Or maybe you're right and he's smiling at the prospect of fighting her? She's grown a lot since they arrived (in more ways than one I'm sure har har har) so any actual fight between them would, I'm sure, be interesting.

Love the convenient sword placement. We just never know if that smile slipped away again or not. I don't think this manga will reach it's conclusion without some resolution being drawn between those two. Kubo takes a lot of care with Gin's character, I've noticed - drawing him, keeping him a mystery while slowly revealing his past... IMO he's by far the most interesting character in the entire series leaving me to think that maybe, just maybe, Kubo has a soft spot for him too.
__________________
(This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 09:40   Link #199
ryuutohime
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I love how Yuusa Kouji voices him. I also love the way he's played in the musical. He's a brilliant character. But like him? I'm not sure. Of Aizen's trio he's the most interesting, Aizen himself included. I'd have to take him over the other two any day. But I like Kira a lot more than I like Gin, on the whole.

Gin is creepy-nasty and I usually like that in a character, but somehow there's something a bit too reckless and don't care about him. I want to know a bit more about his motivation before I make up my mind whether or not I like him.

I do hope though that at some point Kira gets to face off with Gin. That will be an interesting scene, no doubt.

It has to be either Kira or Rangiku, or both - right?

Ryuu
ryuutohime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-29, 12:39   Link #200
Langus
Optimus Prime
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Japan/Canada
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryuutohime View Post
I love how Yuusa Kouji voices him. I also love the way he's played in the musical. He's a brilliant character. But like him? I'm not sure. Of Aizen's trio he's the most interesting, Aizen himself included. I'd have to take him over the other two any day. But I like Kira a lot more than I like Gin, on the whole.

Gin is creepy-nasty and I usually like that in a character, but somehow there's something a bit too reckless and don't care about him. I want to know a bit more about his motivation before I make up my mind whether or not I like him.

I do hope though that at some point Kira gets to face off with Gin. That will be an interesting scene, no doubt.

It has to be either Kira or Rangiku, or both - right?

Ryuu
IMO it SHOULD to be Rangiku. They need to resolve what's left of their relationship and a meeting between them right now would be incredibly entertaining drama wise. Just think of all the tension that would hang between them with that first look. Which of them would raise their sword first? I'm betting it would be her. Though the way Kubo is bringing things around, it seems like it'll be Kira. Borrrringggg :P Can't stand that guy.
__________________
(This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )
Langus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.