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View Poll Results: Zero no Tsukaima (second series) - Episode 12 [END] Rating
Perfect 10 51 26.56%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 38 19.79%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 15.10%
7 out of 10 : Good 21 10.94%
6 out of 10 : Average 20 10.42%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 11 5.73%
4 out of 10 : Poor 7 3.65%
3 out of 10 : Bad 6 3.13%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 1.04%
1 out of 10 : Painful 7 3.65%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-09-24, 00:09   Link #41
Omniscient
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Originally Posted by cyw1988 View Post
I wouldn't be complaining if this was a 52 episode series... even if it was a 26 i wouldn't be complaining that much. But with 12 eps and you wanna mess around with 4-5 eps putting useless filler episodes, you clearly are digging your own grave. If there was ever going to be a third season, I will certaintly think twice about watching it.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel too. I almost would prefer them not to even make a third season at this point.
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Old 2007-09-24, 00:37   Link #42
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--> Great, this is done too. Nanoha and Kaze no Stigma are done as well. Sooner or later, Touka Gettan and Nagasarete Airantou will be done too. Man, I'm feeling the hole again
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Old 2007-09-24, 02:07   Link #43
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Originally Posted by Cyz View Post
Spoiler:


--> Great, this is done too. Nanoha and Kaze no Stigma are done as well. Sooner or later, Touka Gettan and Nagasarete Airantou will be done too. Man, I'm feeling the hole again
School Days has been killing me.

NICE BOAT!!!!
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Old 2007-09-24, 02:14   Link #44
Darknemo2000
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They could have done this one better if they would not have skipped the whole volume 8 (which in my personal opinion were one of the best book in Zero No tsukaima series overall...

skipping the key factor of charcter dvelopment for upcoming volume 9-12 is a vERY VERY bad thing to do.

Since they wont be able to use matured Saito and Louise now, since in anime they do not grow up all that much, the same reunion scene ends up with louise blowing saito joke...

Spoiler for While in novels:


By skipping the strongest character development volume they have now optioned to change everything in Zero No tsukaima as it wont follow novels from this point.

They can still use scenes but they will have to change setting as in novels Louise and saito will be more or less mature from the point of their reunion, at least about their relationship. And this is something that Zero No tsukaima anime cannot do as they have missed their chance of character development and turned it into a few rushed minutes.

I think anyone would agree that putting a whole book in 4-5 minutes is not something one should do. They now have totally ruined volume 8 and with it Saito/Louise character development and
Spoiler for novels:


And
Spoiler for louise Saito reunion:


Seriously..It is very WRONG. One of the worst endings ever. Not because of the scenes in anime. But because that with this episode they have killed original Zero No Tsukaima. Or at least the characters. As they will have to use dumbed down Saito and louise instead of matured ones from the time they spent alone in novels. And that changes quite a few things...

If before I thought that this season was bad, now I think, after seiing how they totally skipped the best character development volume book in 4-5 minutes, it is a catastrophy of directing now.
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Old 2007-09-24, 02:18   Link #45
Village Idiot
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Originally Posted by mist2123 View Post
Omg! WHAT WaS THAT
He just killed/knocked out 40-100 people and they won the war! <- words cannot express my anger!!!
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-09-24, 04:00   Link #46
llSunaBozull
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I havent seen it yet... sad to say. I just joined this community and this is my first post.

Here is a link everyone should see and please pass it on...

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...-tsukaima.html
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Old 2007-09-24, 04:20   Link #47
Klashikari
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read the lead paragraph, and the reason why ZNT has a "(MFI)" tag
Quote:
What does the tag (MFI) mean ? Read On :

While Zero no Tsukaima Second Series has not been licensed yet, it is produced by MFI, therefore we won't be listing fansubs here on AnimeSuki. See Removal of Media Factory Inc. Works for details.

Since it is "restricted", the following posts are no longer allowed.
  • Asking (or providing) where you can find Zero no Tsukaima Second Series downloads or torrents.
  • Asking for help downloading Zero no Tsukaima Second Series.
  • Asking for playback help for Zero no Tsukaima Second Series episodes.
These rules applies to fansubs (in English or any other language) and raws alike.

You still are allowed to discuss the anime, that has not changed but please remember to limit the discussion to the story.
well, let's see:
1) Review with an "anime only" point of view

This episode was simply anticlimatic. Basically, the execution of the whole episode was mediocre as a final one.
The first part was focusing on both Louise and Saito, and their "mission". The problem is... this kind of interaction has nothing to do here, as it simply eat up what the little time remain for the "battle".
Louise outburst was a bit too rushed, especially how her reactions and own "duty" were slow and progressive with the last 2 previous episode

The second part was terrible as well. Why? basically the choice of the track, the surrealist look of the battle.
Saito was absolutely not overpowering the enemies, not really heroic. instead, the soldiers were doing... nothing, while saito just swing his sword like nuts. i swear, His sudden ability to swipe wave of soldiers with the air rpessure from his sword could give him the ability to own Menville and his men alone with EASE if we refer to the episode 9.
Saito was... able to get no scratch, whatsoever, until he receives that barrage of arrows.
Let's not mention the absurdity of the last part of the fight, as Saito is lying down on the ground, obviously dying. Guess what? the WHOLE ARMY stopped motion, and HUNDRED of them are casting or preparing their bows. This is beyond ridicule, considering how blatant Saito's defeat was, and how they should not waste time with a SINGLE hero.

The whole fight was anticlimatic. Worse, i felt it was BORING.
The only redeemable part to me is how Saito has the usual cliché "dying memories".
The worst part comes as the last one as...
Saito's "joy" was dubious as well, as... not only he was completely healed (which turn Tiffania into a true deux ex machina), but he was acting like nothing happened. Worse is his attitude towards Tiffania just screw the mood.
Siesta's reaction lacks of impact, and doesn't look like she is relieved about "someone who was supposed to be dead".
And finally, the pinnacle of the failure point: Louise nuking Saito, because of that "comedy" plot device.
The whole episode skyrocketed their relationship, to the point it was touching somehow... and now, they are using that HORRIBLE reset button?

let's not mention about the big PLOT hole:
-Where is sheffield? (hello, Miss gorgeous villain, who has less screentime than even side characters)
-What was doing the rest of the army, obviously not enterely defeated by saito?
-What was the deal with the army?
-Who is Tiffania?
-How the heck Saito will go back to "earth" ?
-...

This end is really unconclusive, badly scripted, and completely moronic.

2) Review with some novel knowledge
I'm not as pissed as darknemo, but frankly, the complete skip of a whole volume hurt beyond salvation.
I could bear the various butcher part
-as Henrietta's development about Wales and Saito,
-Louise and her "dying in honor" greatly cut/shortened,
-Siesta's powerless complex and heartwarming attempts to comfort saito,
-Saito's dilemna, and despair. (and huge depression about "dying in honor" crap)

but the end was simply ridicule in that aspect, as the development and the "character expected reactiosn" were simply skipped, with a twisted way to create some expectations for a third season.
Various OOC, or underdeveloped parts of each characters, not even invested for the plot, but rather for FILLERS.
If it wasn't that bad, they actually introduced novel parts, but in such fashion it is hardly taking a big part of the plot (except agnes story, which overwhelmed the whole deal)

In an attempt of silly hope to get something "worthy", i was utterly "betrayed" by my own expectations. The battle, which was supposed to be EPIC, was... plain, badly scripted and silly.

2 words: horrible disappointement.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2007-09-24 at 04:34.
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Old 2007-09-24, 05:51   Link #48
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
I was expecting it to screw up the ending of Volume 7... But it totally skipped to the end of volume 8 while totally ignoring that volume 8...
Hmm, any chance they could add what was missed into a third season if happened? I mean together with original material. I've seen this done before on many of occasions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Guess I'll go to sleep now and dream of a total remake of Zero No Tsukaima someday....
After reading everything you just said, i seriously wouldn't be to surprised if it happens one day. We'll have to hope.
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Old 2007-09-24, 08:18   Link #49
htsuji
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Not bad. However, the story of the episode 12 evolves too fast.

To me, it's quite obvious that the anime company is plannning the next season even though it isn't officially announced yet. If so, they didn't have to depict the scene of Saito's return and the following slapstick now. It should have been placed the first episode of the next season.
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Old 2007-09-24, 11:04   Link #50
Edel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
The worst ending EVER.... Why?

IT SKIPPED THE WHOLE FREAKING VOLUME!


I am shocked beyond the words...

I was expecting it to screw up the ending of Volume 7... But it totally skipped to the end of volume 8 while totally ignoring that volume 8...

And more so the volume 8 that I found to be an essential part of Zero No Tsukaima as it had a very interesting character development of Louise and Saito being apart. It was one of my favorite volumes and the strongest ones...

And it was totally ignored....

I am disgusted beyond words about this season.....

They turned the strongest point of them becoming a couple into nothing as there is no character development of them being apart ...

Spoiler for Volume 8:


Why? Because they both MATURED as a couple while being for such a long time apart... This was the strongest character development point in the whole novels, on which later volumes are based...

What will they do NOW? They ruined whole Zero No Tsukaima now... They will have to make a new Zero No Tsukaima since now they cant follow novels anymore where both Saito and Louose undergone strong character development while being apart...

Both acted more mature from that point... And no wonder

Spoiler for development that you'll never see in anime:


Surely that there were still some sparks between them but volume 8 really changed a lot of things and their realationship...

Anime now cannot follow novels... Unless they can make Louise and Saito more mature, but how?
Spoiler for novel:


I am seriously totally shocked...

I haven't seen such F***ed up ending for quite some time... Not because scenes from volume 7 were rushed as you could expect that but because of total ignorance on the best character development volume 8... Which plays the tone for the rest of the Zero No Tsukaima novels up till now...

With this ending they are basically telling that the next season will be a filler season once again as they wont be able op follow the plotline which requires both main characters to more emotionally mature due to volume 8...

Horrible...

I was thinking that they will only destroy volume 7th... And leave the delicious volume 8 for next season... But the destroyed it totally...

More so with this they

Spoiler for Novels:


This episode basically killed Zero No Tsukaima, as far as novels concened... It will have to be based on original fillers again since substantial plot is now gone forever.

I hope there wont be a third season.

Not after such ending...

If I were to value it only as anime standalone , then it wasnt badly done... Its just as a novel reader I see them now cutting all strings with novels...

Surely they will be able to take best scenes from later novels but the character will be totally different... They will have to change the scenes a lot so that it could match dumbed down Louise and Saito of an anime...

For me Zero No Tsukaima is officially dead with this episode... Now they can make something differet but it wont be Zero No Tsukaima...

You may think that i am overreacting and to the point i really am...

Its just that characters are the big part of Zero No tsukaima and with ignoring volume 8 they have basically left them the same without any development which will become one of a key factors for Saito and Louise later...

So frustrating...

Guess I'll go to sleep now and dream of a total remake of Zero No Tsukaima someday....
O____________O Great Arguments ... BUT for me Zero no Tsukaima is more than the Novels, more than the anime, more than all ... Zero no Tsukaima is Zero no Tsukaima for overall the things , is true that JC Staff and Yuu Kou killed the 8th novel but Zero no Tsukaima is Forever Zero no Tsukaima and only for that is some fantastic

the Episode 12 (I have seen the raw) was great , too lovely and emotional ^^ it's has the fillers that Darknemo said , is true, but the episode was beautyful 24 mins

regards~
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Old 2007-09-24, 11:32   Link #51
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in my view the producers should have just ended with a cliffhanger like many of us were anticipating... and then after the ed music, they should just show shots of the 3rd season... then say something cool like "2008 summer"... Really even if they ended like that i'd have felt better...
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Old 2007-09-24, 13:08   Link #52
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Shiroth, if they would do that, then they would need another fight were Saito and Louise are seperated and where Saito disappears and Louise blames herself on that... Also it would need Tiffania too...


If made such thing would be repetative, no? Besides in novels after volume 7 no big fights happen, not such epic ones though.

So no... I dont think it can be used with original material... Maybe only a part where

Spoiler for Novels:


But I dont think so... I think that killing whole volume 8 which was filled with character development will really hurt Zero No tsukaima in the future... Since if it stays true to novels you will se characters acting strangely as there is no character development in anime thus change would be weird, while in novels both Saito an Louise change quite a bit.

Also because of
Spoiler for Novels:


But in anime both Louise and specially Siesta are too simple for that.

Despite of what edel said, Zero No tsukaima IS novels... Without novels there would be no Zero No Tsukaima... Anime and manga are only adoptations of original material (both are rather bad but for different reasons).

Face it, there would be no Zero No tsukaima if there would have been no novels. Now we have too adaptations of it - one is terribly rushed and simpleminded (anime) while other - childish (manga). Surely it creates their own Zero No tsukaima but its only fakes in a sense that it is not original.

so the real Zero No Tsukaima is the novels, like it or not. Simply if there were no novels there were no Zero No Tsukaima at all... Anime and manga are only variations of it. Yet the real, original source is still the one - Noboru's novels.
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Old 2007-09-24, 13:12   Link #53
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As badly directed and done this episode was, I actually enjoyed it because of the few things that were right. The music during the battle was a right decision - Saito fighting his heart out, and the wedding was done ok.

Although I do hope to see a re-make but it's wistful thinking. I might go pick up the entire set of novels at Book Off, the day the price drops to 105yen each.
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Old 2007-09-24, 14:17   Link #54
Edel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000
Despite of what edel said, Zero No tsukaima IS novels... Without novels there would be no Zero No Tsukaima... Anime and manga are only adoptations of original material (both are rather bad but for different reasons).
yes but you don`t understand the point xDDD obviously that ZnT is FIRST the novels. I am from Argentina and I don't Know the novels contain a lot like you but Like a ZnT fan for me ZnT is more than the adaptations , in easy explanation : "Is ZnT?? ok, then nothing can be worse than it "

but I understand your rage xD I prefer a loyalty adaptation than fillers EVER (except the fillers that are better than the original like in Erementar Gerad ) but I don't believe that a remake will be created

cya~
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Old 2007-09-24, 14:19   Link #55
kokolores
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Dear God,
Why do they have to ruin each serious or emotional scene by making a bad joke out of it?

There's not much to say after Darknemo2000. The only thing I can think of, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the main argument between Saito and Louise her willingness to surrender her life if ordered, her belief that a noble's honor and pride was more important than his life? In the novels the point was that Louise was supposed to give up her life because she was ordered to, while the higher ups only cared about themselves.
However in the anime she was willing to die out of friendship or love for Henrietta and not because of orders and honor, which completely ruins the contrast of Saito's self-sacrifice in the novels.


This is almost laughable compared to some of the things darknemo already mentioned, but seriously how can they even think of completely perverting the story like that. Isn't it far easier to just stick with the story instead of getting as creative as possible to ruin a show? That's all they would have had to do to make ZnT a huge success, instead they managed they greatest disappointment of the summer season. This show was bad enough to make me think they wanted to proof that it is possible to make a shitty series out of an excellent novel. I only hope this makes me appreciate the new Shana season all the more.
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Old 2007-09-24, 14:25   Link #56
justsomeguy
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Completely skipping over a novel that most people hold to be an important character development volume shows that JC Staff does not give a damn about character development.

I do not see how it is possible to retcon Volume 8 back in without going through some very clumsy plot twists, and any third season would get old quickly if we keep having the same hijinks.

Therefore, this ending earns 1/10. I would very much have preferred a dramatic cliffhanger with Saito dying after the battle (with I Say Yes wedding version playing as credits scroll), instead of a deus ex machina (who the hell is Tiffania anyway? was she even shown before this episode?).

What are the chances of JC Staff retconning this shit with a replacement episode if they decide to make Season 3?

God I hope they don't pull the same crap with Shana.
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Old 2007-09-24, 14:39   Link #57
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
(who the hell is Tiffania anyway? was she even shown before this episode?)
Yes, Guiche mentioned her in episode 11 --- she's also a character from the original novel.
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Old 2007-09-24, 15:13   Link #58
HayatexNanohaxFate
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anyone know what the name of the flower is?
ecleur d'amour?
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Old 2007-09-24, 15:17   Link #59
Akimoto Michiyo
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I think that the ending for this was...ok at the best. They missed a whole bunch of things from the novels like Darknemo2000 said, and most of it was crammed. I think they could have taken less time on the Agnes part, so they could still have at least more episodes so that Saito and Louise could mature some more. All in all, this episode and pretty much all of the second season could be done better. I'm waiting (hopefully) for a third season so we get to see more of Tiffinia and see Louise's and Saito's relationship go somewhere.
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Old 2007-09-24, 15:17   Link #60
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what was that thing at the end of the credits?
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