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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 01 Rating
Perfect 10 26 13.76%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 27.51%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 61 32.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 34 17.99%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 5.82%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.53%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.53%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 1.59%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-10-15, 20:35   Link #301
Commander 598
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But we know Exia will be pulling out a beam saber next episode, if I'm not mistaken and given that he's currently locked in combat with Graham wielding a beam saber...
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Old 2007-10-15, 20:51   Link #302
brightman
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Originally Posted by Commander 598 View Post
But we know Exia will be pulling out a beam saber next episode, if I'm not mistaken and given that he's currently locked in combat with Graham wielding a beam saber...
That's not a beam saber, since the Flag isn't equipped with one. Its probably its plasma blade (you can actually barely make out the solid blade when it pulls it out, then it starts glowing)

And Exia's GN Sword is actually tougher than its beam sabers, according to info that's out so far.
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:22   Link #303
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
In all honesty, I think the nations just have no Counter-Gundam plan in place. Either overwhelming force or better technology will probably make up the difference. So far I haven't really seen any indication that this series follows Seed logic where if an entire platoon of 50+ mobile suits came at the Gundams they would get blown to smithereens. It's just that right now the Gundam's are fighting limited numbers of troops, in formation, with better intelligence and experience, with full flight capability that the other units lack AND with the element of surprise thanks to the GN Particles. It pays to be prepared, which is what the HRA, Union and AEU will need to be.

I realize that I keep reiterating this point, but I don't think anybody is really considering or addressing it. I hope somebody will add to it or improve it or at least something.
The thing is, right now it doesn't seem like there was anything those mobile suits could have done; their technology is so inferior that no amount of information and stradegy can possibly make up for the difference... Their armor is useless, their weapons seem ineffective (their artillerly cannons didn't even seem to scratch the gundam), the move at a snails pace(the only thing slower than there run, is them trying to turn around). and their mobility is incredibly low(the thing's don't look like they could dodge at all). Even if you put a ace pilot into one of those Mobile suits the result would be the same; it's a very large technological gap. Overall, there doesn't seem to be anything that they could have done; the battle seems like it would indeed follow seed logic cause there wasn't anything that could even slow down the gundams... compared to those ground units, the gundams seem even more omnipotent than they did in previous series

in other series, the gundams did indeed have a technological advantage, but it was not as big... while the enemy MS were still shot down quickly, in many cases it was not ONLY the technology was weaker, but the pilots as well... in other gundam series, when you put one of the gundam pilots into an MS that we noramlly getting blown apart by the dozen, the pilot is able to use the MS to a higher efficancy; he still couldn't beat a gundam with it do to the technological advangae, but he could atleast put up a half decent fight...

However, i will definatly need to give the series more time. Afterall, With the test MS we saw in the last episode and the Flag MS we saw at the end of this one, their is signs that the series will move into a direction where the technology will keep improving and thus close the gap that exists between the gundams and the ground MS we saw in this episode.

grant it, i do still wonder a bit about the march of technology... the jump between the slow ground MS to the faster Test MS we saw last episode seems a tad large, i would think they would have developed something inbetween the two, something would be the current standard. That's one thing i did kind of liked about seed, it had a nice march of technology in the evolution of weapons; looking at how the stadard for MS's changed a number of times with only fairly minor changes seem like a more believable march. Though it was still a fast evolution as those kind of advancements would probably happen over the courses of years and not months.... i think... i'm no expert, i just speak out of my ass
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:26   Link #304
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You're asking for a tank to have a mobility of motorbike?
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:30   Link #305
Slayerx
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You're asking for a tank to have a mobility of motorbike?
Considering the gundams have power and defence beyond that of tank and have the mobility of an athlete with a jet pack, yes i kind of do
i would kind of expect the stadard MS to be closer to that of the test suit we saw in the first episode, though with more fire power... sure it got owned fast, but atleast it had a higher performance
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:33   Link #306
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The thing is, right now it doesn't seem like there was anything those mobile suits could have done; their technology is so inferior that no amount of information and stradegy can possibly make up for the difference... Their armor is useless, their weapons seem ineffective (their artillerly cannons didn't even seem to scratch the gundam), the move at a snails pace(the only thing slower than there run, is them trying to turn around). and their mobility is incredibly low(the thing's don't look like they could dodge at all). Even if you put a ace pilot into one of those Mobile suits the result would be the same; it's a very large technological gap. Overall, there doesn't seem to be anything that they could have done; the battle seems like it would indeed follow seed logic cause there wasn't anything that could even slow down the gundams... compared to those ground units, the gundams seem even more omnipotent than they did in previous series

in other series, the gundams did indeed have a technological advantage, but it was not as big... while the enemy MS were still shot down quickly, in many cases it was not ONLY the technology was weaker, but the pilots as well... in other gundam series, when you put one of the gundam pilots into an MS that we noramlly getting blown apart by the dozen, the pilot is able to use the MS to a higher efficancy; he still couldn't beat a gundam with it do to the technological advangae, but he could atleast put up a half decent fight...

However, i will definatly need to give the series more time. Afterall, With the test MS we saw in the last episode and the Flag MS we saw at the end of this one, their is signs that the series will move into a direction where the technology will keep improving and thus close the gap that exists between the gundams and the ground MS we saw in this episode.

grant it, i do still wonder a bit about the march of technology... the jump between the slow ground MS to the faster Test MS we saw last episode seems a tad large, i would think they would have developed something inbetween the two, something would be the current standard. That's one thing i did kind of liked about seed, it had a nice march of technology in the evolution of weapons; looking at how the stadard for MS's changed a number of times with only fairly minor changes seem like a more believable march. Though it was still a fast evolution as those kind of advancements would probably happen over the courses of years and not months.... i think... i'm no expert, i just speak out of my ass
I get the sense that those ground mobile suits have been long time mainstays that are on their way out. Kind of like the GM in Zeta Gundam.
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:35   Link #307
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Er... Slayerx...

Comparing Enact/Flag with the Tieren variants in Ep.2 is like comparing a Phantom to a Panzer. Besides, Tierens, those slow tanks are HRL suits. The Americans and Europeans are the ones with the more agile ones.

And the Gundams are pretty much super-weapons as it's supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Considering the gundams have power and defence beyond that of tank and have the mobility of an athlete with a jet pack, yes i kind of do
i would kind of expect the stadard MS to be closer to that of the test suit we saw in the first episode, though with more fire power... sure it got owned fast, but atleast it had a higher performance
Flags are pretty much mass-production units of the Union. You know...the one that is going to fight Exia. No, I highly doubt it's going to be 3 times faster or anything.

And Tierens DO have High-Mobility variants. There was just no need for the Tamils to have them.
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:37   Link #308
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grant it, i do still wonder a bit about the march of technology... the jump between the slow ground MS to the faster Test MS we saw last episode seems a tad large, i would think they would have developed something inbetween the two, something would be the current standard. That's one thing i did kind of liked about seed, it had a nice march of technology in the evolution of weapons; looking at how the stadard for MS's changed a number of times with only fairly minor changes seem like a more believable march. Though it was still a fast evolution as those kind of advancements would probably happen over the courses of years and not months.... i think... i'm no expert, i just speak out of my ass
You need to remember that the nimble Flag and Enact are produced by countries with a much better technological base than the Tieren, which is produced by the Human Reform League, whose member states consist of.. what do you know, China, Russia and India. If the current "Soviet" doctrine for military hardware still applies to 00, it would mean that the Tierens were produced as cheap, mass produced units that would rely on bulk and quantity in the battlefield as opposed to high technology, unlike would be the case with the air dominant Union or AEU.

Anyways, there would be no "middle ground" you speak off because the Tieren and the Flag/Enact are from completely different technological lines of development, and therefore the Tieren would be the most advanced of its line in service, while the Flag and Enact would be the most advanced of their respective lines.

Although we are seeing the HRL move towards improving the mobility of the Tierens with the winged Tieren High-Mobility, seen in the extended preview not only moving extremely fast, but grabbing and lifting the Exia by its head .
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:52   Link #309
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just watched episode 2, I was actually shocked at how amazing it was, every bad point I had to say about the last episode has been turned around and I feel like a fool for saying it, the episode was just so good I think think could easily be my favorite series if it keeps up, so much potential.
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Old 2007-10-15, 21:58   Link #310
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
I get the sense that those ground mobile suits have been long time mainstays that are on their way out. Kind of like the GM in Zeta Gundam.
Perhaps... that's why i still rather have hope for the series in that we will quickly see units like the Flag and and test MS being going into Mass production; give them some decent fire power and the gundam pilots might actually build up a sweat. though if that is the case, then i guess my complaints would mainly come from it not being made clearer that they were being phased out... i would think that we we see some more recent models some with atleast decent abilities on the battlefield aswell instead of ONLY the snail paced units... hence my point about the tech gap between one of those ground troops and the test unit. With the test unit in it's testing phase i would think that the something like those slow ground units would have already been phased out and that the current stadard suit would be something that piloted more like a Leo or a zaku; higher perfomrance than the ground untis, but lower than the test unit.

So far, things look like the will either go on like Seed or Wing... in Seed, the gundams were always omnipetent, only another gundam could beat a gundam... In Wing, it started out out with the gundams being omnipetent, but than they got knocked down a few pegs when the enemy developed better tech (mobile dolls, followed by virgo's) and showed the gundams needed a serious upgrade. Ofcourse, than the gundam eventually became onipetent again, but not AS onipetent as they started out as...

Personally, i think i just pine to see a gundam series like 08th MS team, where the gundams are only slightly better than the enemy troops and it's made crystal clear that the fights won't be one sided, where normal soldiers actually make a difference and a not just cannon fodder and large scale battles involving thousands are not completely determined by the handful of gundams/high perfomance suits on each side... damn Seed leaving that bad taste in my mouth... Ya i guess that's where most of my complaigning comes from... seeing very one sided battles, seeing dozens loose to only a handful... Really hoping this series steers clear of that path at the least...

though a series a bit like UC is also good... if i recall correctly, the gundam there had clearly better performance, but the inexperinence of pilot held it back so he still struggled in his fights, and by the time the pilot did gain ace level skills, the power of the gundam became a standard for mass production so the battles were still fairly close...
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Old 2007-10-15, 22:00   Link #311
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Perhaps... that's why i still rather have hope for the series in that we will quickly see units like the Flag and and test MS being going into Mass production; give them some decent fire power and the gundam pilots might actually build up a sweat.
Erh, the Flag Graham uses IS a mass-produced unit - there's already five of them in the prologue, including a black commander unit. And we already see another operational Enact in the prologue, which means MP Enacts are not that far off.
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Old 2007-10-15, 22:27   Link #312
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Hmm just watched the episode for the second time and it made me think about some other interesting questions...

Why did Tieria question why Setsuna was chosen as a Gundam Meister? I mean on the surface it could be his emotional investment in the war based on his personal story, but on deeper examination I found it odd that Tieria (who seems to be the most aggressive member of the group based on personality) would be questioning Setsuna's aggressive nature...

Also is Celestial Being telling America that the only way for the middle-east to work together is by using their hatred for us as a common ground? Maybe it's subtle maybe it's not...I don't know...It just seemed to me as those CB operatives were discussing it in the house, that celestial being just wants to make everyone who hates one another just hate them instead (therefore shifting the focus and potentially encouraging a union)...The pilots seem to accept this burden, as in Hallelujah's thoughts on becoming a mass-murderer for the greater good...

I'm also want to ask how GN particles can cushion the heat generated by re-entry? I would have thought an explanation based on the sun-powered technology would play better...I mean minovsky particles can't do that $hit, GN is more than just minovsky-esque...It's like Lacus' Clyne's urn dust...

Also Graham Acre looks to me like Guin Lineford with piloting skills...But I think he's gonna be the Char-esque character on second-impressions...I think his total mission will be finding out aspects of the Gundam's power to incorporate into his own technological advancements (Maybe like Char in MSG's first few eps)...This is getting good, because I totally expect him to bare some fruit based on this encounter...His attitude is great aswell, because he doesn't seem the type to go head-on against the legendary Gundam without a well conceived plan...You guys who are expecting the Gundams to just own endlessly are gonna get a rude awakening...I see what's coming, it's hazy as $hit, but I can see it^^...Graham is getting early considerations for my favorite character, so if he fights on even level with the Gundam, he'll make a good case...

Finally I think the one of the best parts of this ep is when Setsuna says, "I, I am the Gundam..." (With Yagimi Light's voice I damn near thought he was gonna say "I'm Kira..." xD) While he's obviously cold, he still shows a tangible amount of emotion based on his actions...Dare I say that Setsuna is being set-up potentially as Shinn done right? Don't look at me like I just walked in on you playing with yourself, it seems likely...He's fighting based on his past alone it seems, and has a zest for wanting to kicka$$ on a very quiet, yet testosterone based level...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerX
i would kind of expect the standard MS to be closer to that of the test suit we saw in the first episode, though with more fire power... sure it got owned fast, but atleast it had a higher performance
Pawns are indeed useful pieces aswell...Since you only have one Queen or one King or one Gundam, other pieces can block or control later movements...Tierens weren't designed to fight against unimaginably fast and agile Gundams, they were meant to control the grounds with numbers... Just like Tanks aren't meant to fight stealth bombers, Teirens have their own purpose...The historic landscape of 00 suggests they have been quite successful...100 years from now when we have the first robotic soldiers or MS' Terminator 2-ing $hit, we'l still have a 100 tanks keeping the occupation somewhere...

Teirens = Cheaply produced tank-suits killing $hit with numbers...
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Old 2007-10-15, 23:02   Link #313
Demongod86
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For the record, Setsuna isn't Shinn done right. Setsuna is simply void of any emotion whatsoever. Yes, he has his flashbacks, but I don't think we've really seen him interacting with anyone whatsoever.

He was right when he said he was the gundam. He does as he's commanded, and nothing else...just like a robot.

At least in contrast, Heero was laughing maniacally when he blew away those Leos.

Of course, Shinn was an over-the-top basketcase, but so far, the guy that was closest to being like a regular human being I know was Killer Tomato.

And as for the GG particles as I shall dub them from now on, yeah, they're pretty much legitimized Lacus Dust. You see, with Lacus Dust, everyone thought it was just cosmetics until I made a half-serious gag out of it. But these things are literally a legitimacy of "dust of Good Game"...

Right when we thought there'd be no deus-ex devices, well, here they are people, loud and clear. Don't discount them because they're trying to be hidden in plain sight.
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Old 2007-10-15, 23:15   Link #314
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Pawns are indeed useful pieces aswell...Since you only have one Queen or one King or one Gundam, other pieces can block or control later movements...Tierens weren't designed to fight against unimaginably fast and agile Gundams, they were meant to control the grounds with numbers... Just like Tanks aren't meant to fight stealth bombers, Teirens have their own purpose...The historic landscape of 00 suggests they have been quite successful...100 years from now when we have the first robotic soldiers or MS' Terminator 2-ing $hit, we'l still have a 100 tanks keeping the occupation somewhere...

Teirens = Cheaply produced tank-suits killing $hit with numbers...
More like walking tanks with heavy armor and firepower. Against conventional weaponry they should be able take punishment better than the Union's or AEU's suits. Seems more like a psychological tactic, advancing slowly on the enemy with heavy firepower and in numbers.

In dealing with agile/aerial units, that's what the High Mobility Tierens there for.
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Old 2007-10-15, 23:23   Link #315
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For the record, Setsuna isn't Shinn done right. Setsuna is simply void of any emotion whatsoever. Yes, he has his flashbacks, but I don't think we've really seen him interacting with anyone whatsoever.

He was right when he said he was the gundam. He does as he's commanded, and nothing else...just like a robot.

At least in contrast, Heero was laughing maniacally when he blew away those Leos.

Of course, Shinn was an over-the-top basketcase, but so far, the guy that was closest to being like a regular human being I know was Killer Tomato.

And as for the GG particles as I shall dub them from now on, yeah, they're pretty much legitimized Lacus Dust. You see, with Lacus Dust, everyone thought it was just cosmetics until I made a half-serious gag out of it. But these things are literally a legitimacy of "dust of Good Game"...

Right when we thought there'd be no deus-ex devices, well, here they are people, loud and clear. Don't discount them because they're trying to be hidden in plain sight.
Well, I mean we've seen him in the prologue of Ep1 as a kid soldier with likely everyone he ever knew brutally murdered.

And also? He wasn't just "obeying orders" there, he went on ahead against the battle plan and they had to adjust for it. I thought it was pretty plain that the "I am Gundam" line was referring to how the Gundam saved his ass at the beginning of the Ep1 prologue--and the conflict they were intervening in hit a bit too close to home.

Edit: Also Those fairy dust or GN particles, what are they really? So far I noticed:

1. Like Minosky they disrupt radar and communication device but not affecting audio visual device.

2. Either that they byproduct of Gundam power source or they are the power source.

3. Atmosphere entry shielding?

4. Phase-shift properties (plot shield)? Doesn't make sense on this one since those Gundam actually use shield to avoid damage except Virtue that seem to venting a lot of it and only Gundam without a shield in this series (not that it need it)...

Maybe like Katagiri says there more to it.
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Old 2007-10-15, 23:31   Link #316
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But DG86 (As if you ever, ever, ever have EVER listened to me on anything)...Every show with robots killing $hit is gonna have a dues ex machina factor...It's unavoidable...Presentation is the deciding factor of whether it's acceptable or regrettable...Now I am hoping for a negligible explanation on GN particles (which actually exist scientifically in the 00-verse unlike Lacus' myth dust), but based on the atmosphere of the show in general (Which is less SOOPA in comparison to GSD) I do have some faith that a tangible explanation will be given...Anyways who said there'd be no dues ex machina element? I doubt you have a name to go with that claim...

As for Setsuna, he isn't Shinn done right or anything yet, just saying I see some Shinn qualities in him potentially as a lead motivated solely by his lack of true power in the past that won't get the series yanked from him (Disobeying orders and freelance fighting are also Shinn-qualities)...And again stop trying to make him Heero, Heero was a 10000000 percent brain-washed automaton who slowly came along...Setsuna clearly has human qualities he draws from FROM THE START...

Finally, If anybody in your dorm has the personality of Kira all the time in GSD, I'd check their freezers for freshmen body parts, because Kira's so enigmatically even-tempered in GSD it's to the point of closet psycho levels, not "regular guy" levels...
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Old 2007-10-15, 23:35   Link #317
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Teirens = Cheaply produced tank-suits killing $hit with numbers...
Kind of reminds me of the stereotypical "Red Army" of China when you put it that way...

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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
And as for the GG particles as I shall dub them from now on, yeah, they're pretty much legitimized Lacus Dust. You see, with Lacus Dust, everyone thought it was just cosmetics until I made a half-serious gag out of it. But these things are literally a legitimacy of "dust of Good Game"...

Right when we thought there'd be no deus-ex devices, well, here they are people, loud and clear. Don't discount them because they're trying to be hidden in plain sight.
Those Good Night Particles? (yup, that's what I call them)
Don't seem all that different from the original UC Minovsky Particles, EVA's AT Field, or FMP's Lambda Driver to me....they're all justifications for making the "hero" suits looks so h4x.
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Old 2007-10-15, 23:57   Link #318
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Kind of reminds me of the stereotypical "Red Army" of China when you put it that way...
Well, Tierens ARE Chinese-made...

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Those Good Night Particles? (yup, that's what I call them)
Don't seem all that different from the original UC Minovsky Particles, EVA's AT Field, or FMP's Lambda Driver to me....they're all justifications for making the "hero" suits looks so h4x.
Exactly. They're simply just that. There always need to be some sort of similar stuff, because conventional military tech that every other country knows can only push advanced weaponries so far.

The key-point is presentation, in which 2 episodes in, is still quite early to say anything. The most important thing for the opposition right now first, is to digest and evaluate the Gundam's full-forced performance anyway. Knowing that they're superior in tech isn't enough. Only later should we judge if they'll continue their stupidity or show what real military does. Adapt.
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Old 2007-10-16, 00:11   Link #319
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WTF Is Lacus Dust?!

Also Minovsky Particles weren't the sole dominion of hero mobile suits. Every mobile suit in existance used them, whether it was to power the reactor, or to make use of beam weaponary. Tomino and the Hajime Yatate team also bothered to actually sit down and try to make a scientific process by which they worked. There used to be a site called Gundam Project which had it all written down as Tomino did, but it's been dead for long over 5 years now.
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Old 2007-10-16, 00:18   Link #320
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DG86 can't you make a post without referencing to Gundam SEED? This is Gundam 00.

Quote:
WTF Is Lacus Dust?!
Don't bother asking. It's SEED related stuff. Focus on 00 here buddy. It's for the best

Quote:
Well, Tierens ARE Chinese-made...
Isn't it "Iron Man" in chinese?

The long ranged tieren resembled a 19th century chinese soldier though with it's helment (When Germany helped trained Chinese troops).

And we've yet to see how well the high mobility Tieren performs.

Regardless it's Bio states that the suit is extremely reliable and handy as it can be equipped with various heavy weaponry.
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