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Old 2009-02-11, 13:08   Link #2021
Gangsta Spanksta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
I don't know what priscilla sensed. It was after the partial limb awakening. This could mean that clare now has the same amount of yoki as miria and that priscilla sensed.
IMO miria saw clare the first time in that city. She had no idea who clare was and therefore she was unbiased against her. Perhaps she had a short moment of clar(e)ity in which she could watch beyond that layer of weakness from clare and saw only for a short moment teresa in her.
But i doubt that she ever felt it again. We don't know what it was but IMO miria can not sense someone always in that way. It was a onetime thing.

The way I see it is there are three possibilities: 1) Priscilla saw Clare's Yokistrength as a whole. 2) Priscilla could see both Yokisize and Yokiquality besides the whole strength. 3) Clares Yokisize grew after her last awakening.

And while I do think Yokisize can grow, after arguing with Chiba and starting to take quality into consideration, I think it is more likely the quality that got increased from the half awakening. It could be the seven years of training increases the size. I'm taking a wait and see approach to that.

I also agree that Miria isn't able to always sense someone's Yokiquality -- that it is an on and off thing. But it wasn't the only time she sense it. Like I said before, Miria very specifically mentions both yokisize and yokiquality sepperated by an ellipses. The only other interpretation to that is, she changing her mind from one to another, which still would say she can sense both.
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Old 2009-02-11, 13:49   Link #2022
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
As much as I agree with some of the stuff you said Gangsta, I do think your off the mark when saying it is none of Miria's business what Clare does.
First off, let me apologize for however harsh it may have sounded. I'm actually a Miria fan, but I did a harsh cold analysis to prove the point that I think Clare is in the right there. I stand by my point though, even though I don't think Clare minds Miria's interference in her life that much, nor do I think that Miria is the bad guy here; though, she is using Clare -- though she cares for her -- to some point

Quote:
First of all, Clare is still one of the people Miria feels she is responsible for keeping safe. Whether Clare truly sees her as a leader not is almost irrelevant at this point. I believe Miria is just doing her best to make sure Clare doesn't get herself killed off.
I agree with all of that except that it is irrelevant, and I get back to that, later. As for Clare, she has half awakened 3, maybe 4, times -- I dunno if she did during the Ophelia arc, but it doesn't matter. Anyway, each time Clare has half awakened, she pushed herself because she had no choice. There was always someone there she had to protect that would've died otherwise. I don't see those situations as Clare being irresponsible, because it was do or die, some truly desperate times, each time. To me, that is far less reckless than Deneve half awakening in the slasher arc, or her initial half awakening. Sometimes Helen needs to even calm Deneve down, which I've seen twice already -- Isley and Undine. Helen is reckless by nature. Yet, Miria thinks that Clare needs two people and lets Helen and Deneve go off on their own? There is a reason to Clare's madness; there is none for the other two of the troublesome three.

Quote:
All the Ghosts seems aware that Clare might go off and go get herself neck-deep into trouble. Searching for Raki is fine but we all know that isn't the only thing Clare plans on doing.
Can you find one time when Clare got herself neck-deep into trouble, when it wasn't justified, for a good cause?

Quote:
and as much as Clare helps Miria's plan, it really doesn't feel like Miria isn't going to go through on trying to tackle the organization without her, so I think all this talk about her forcing Clare to help her is more paranoia/conspiracy talk.
Why was Miria willing to drop the other ghosts and follow Clare though? It seemed like the idea was that the two would go to help each other solve their unresolved issues together.

Quote:
Hell, if anything Clare should be grateful to Miria (and I feel like she is, as much as they have a love/hate relationship).
Clare's strength grew exponentially over the past 7 years, as did the other members of the Ghost. Miria does her best to keep them all safe and people seem to think she is the bad guy for doing it. Clare's goals are that much closer to reality due to the time she spent in the North, it isn't like all those years were for nothing.
I don't think Miria is a bad guy. I was just using a cold harsh logical view to point out why I think Clare is in the right here. Seven years is a long time to wait to find Raki -- and I hate Raki, moreso now that I've seen the english dub.

Quote:
I can understand people want Miria to just let Clare do what she wants, but Clare puts herself at risk constantly, even if she has her reasons. Sending people with her to keep her out of trouble is about the best thing one can do to ensure she stays out of (the worst kind) of trouble.

Friends don't let friends get themselves killed after all.
And we've seen how well that goes; In a way, Cynthia seems to be even more willing to rush in an help people out than Clare, increasing the amount of sweat released by poor Yuma. I know it was not her original intent, but it seems that Miria has endangered poor, li'l' Yuma, and knowing how Yagi likes to kill people off, this does not bode well.

Quote:
From a view completely opposing yours, Clare is truly the selfish one here; she is searching for a single person that is important to her and desires revenge against a single individual, one that could probably tear her arms off and beat her to death with them.
She chooses to pursue her personal vendetta over taking down the Organization; which is responsible for basically everything that made her life that much more terrible;
Teresa's death? ordered by the Organization.
Yoma that killed her parents? created by Organization
Priscilla? ditto.
Death of her fellow warriors and friends in Pieta? sacrificial pawns of the Organization used to roadblock one of the Organizations bigger screw-ups so they could have enough time to create another weapon, which also lead to the creation of Abyssal Eaters (they may be monsters now, but they used to be human).

From how I see it, Clare's goals are far more selfish then Miria's, even if Miria started on her path for revenge with similar reasons. The enemy Miria is tackling is the source of the problem, Clare is just blaming one of their mistakes for hers.
Clare is willing to put aside her goal of killing Priscilla though for a good cause. She does make some analysis of what is the better cause. For example, Clare puts aside her #1 quest to find Raki, and her #2 quest to find and kill Priscilla to rescue her fellow warriors from Riful, knowing that the odds of her surviving were against her. So, she is even willing to put off the heart felt reunion with Raki, for the greater cause.

And now let me get back to Irrelevant. What Miria wants when it concerns Clare is Irelevant. Clare is an Adult after all, and while she has done some risky things in the past, it was always for a good cause. Clare has not be conscripted into Miria's Army. There is a point in the story where Clare makes a promise to Raki. At this point, she has placed Raki above everything else. He is her family as she was family to Teresa. I think finding Raki is more important to Clare than killing Priscilla at the moment. Clare never made such a promise to Miria. Wouldn't Teresa do the same thing to find Clare? And whie Clare cares for Miria, is her friend, and is sympathetic to her cause, her priority is to Raki.
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Old 2009-02-11, 14:02   Link #2023
irvinethearcher
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I personally have my problems distinguishing yoki quantity, quality and compression. IMO
it is difficult to measure something which can be compressed, decompressed and released and has even a different quality. Perhaps someday yagi will help us here too.

yoki quantity would be the absolut amount of yoki someone has but how to measure something like that?
yoki quality would be like the density of yoki and mathematically
densit = mass / volume

For me it is clear that clare has far more yoki than rigardo ever had because of the raw power her awakened form possessed but noone seems to be able to measure it.
Quote:
My theory:
In claymore terms quantity seems to be only the amount of yoki someone emits
In claymore terms quality seems to be something like density which is mass / volume
Measurable seems to be only quantity

It is possible for claymores like galatea to measure the yoki potential and claymore power assuming that all claymores emitting yoki in the same way(have the same quality). What i want to say is:

Claymore A and B have the same quality of yoki.
If claymore A possesses 10000 yoki units she emits 1 per second.
If claymore B possesses 20000 yoki units she emits 2 per second.

So galatea can say that B has more yoki than A as long as A and B have the same Yoki quality.

If now B has yoki which is twice as dense as A galatea would probably say that B is as strong as A because B would emit only 1 yoki unit per second.

If now the quality of yoki changes because of a half awakening but the quantity stays the same (i assume it stayed the same after miria, clare, helene and deneve's half awakenigns) so does the total amount of yoki which is disposable for the claymore increase. But we know that half awakening does more. Helen could stretch her limbs, denve got high speed regeneration and clare probably preemptive aura protection. This is something my theory doesn't explain.
And here is something i thought about too:
If yoki is to dense perhaps the claymore can't use it or first has to learn to decompress it before. This would explain clare's weakness.
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Old 2009-02-12, 21:25   Link #2024
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Hnn, how's this irvine (and I'll use Clare as my example):

When Clare first went over her limit, the youki was surging out of her body, 'blowing holes in her skin' is what I'll use to describe the phenomenon. Afterward, the 'holes' mostly healed up, but now, there are a lot more of these 'holes' than there were before in Clare. These 'holes' are essentially the same as the pits on a pit viper or even the electroreceptors on a shark - allowing the sense of youki. Since now Clare has more of these 'holes', her range of youki sensing has increased many times over.

This also can mean that when she releases youki, that while the 'range' or 'extent' of the youki remains nearly same, the increase of the 'holes' also means that the density of the youki around her is much higher since more can be released. This might be able to explain the 'youki quality' that Miria spoke of in the Northern Campaign.

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Old 2009-02-12, 21:51   Link #2025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
I personally have my problems distinguishing yoki quantity, quality and compression. IMO
it is difficult to measure something which can be compressed, decompressed and released and has even a different quality. Perhaps someday yagi will help us here too.

yoki quantity would be the absolut amount of yoki someone has but how to measure something like that?
yoki quality would be like the density of yoki and mathematically
densit = mass / volume

For me it is clear that clare has far more yoki than rigardo ever had because of the raw power her awakened form possessed but noone seems to be able to measure it.
You can think of yoki quality as a bottle of aged win. A small amount but potent.
Yoki quantity as 10 bottles of not so aged wine, a large amount but diluted.

Am not sure if it really makes any deference. You can drink a small amount of the aged wine to get the same effect as drinking 2 glasses of not so aged wine.

I think Yagi did not want to increase Clare's yoki, so he increased her yoki quality. Just like a bottle of wine, you can justify the increase in quality, but you can't get two bottle of wine out of one without adding something to it.

Edit: This could mean that Miria will have more yoki and at a greater quality. Clare on the orther hand, might still have the advantage when it comes to quality. Because she is only 1/4 yoma, and has Teresa inside of her, she can go over her limit easier and more often than Miria. Eventually it might be impossible for Miria to keep up with her. The difference between Teresa's yoki and Miria's yoki will determine how close Clare and Miria remains (in terms of power level). What I mean by that is, if Teresa total power is 10 and Miria's total power compared to Teresa is 2 then Clare can easily surpass Miria. I might be wrong but I think Miria moved up in rank because of her phantom and her leadership skills, not because of her large amount of yoki.

Edit: Chiba, Sleepy and I had a post war on this subject. I was arguing that Clare yoki had increased, but now am thinking Chiba was right, when he thought that Clare yoki did not increase. Now we just have to wait on Yagi to justify how Priscilla could sense Clare's increase in yoki quality form far away.
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Old 2009-02-13, 11:13   Link #2026
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more unenlightened weird opinions

I do agree that we don't know, but i like to think of alternatives.

For example why would Raphealla need to ask "well i did find you, but there are two of you... which one of you is Clare?" When she *should* be able to tell the difference between a #9 and a #47, and was previously a claymore involved in the soul link (therefore likely trained in recognising at least some stuff to do with yoki).

Which in retrospect is similar to Galatea's
"There are two Alicia's... no the other one is number 2, Beth"

Galatea obviously was in visual site there, yet still thought "there's two of them" probably, because everything about them was the same, (yoki included) this was before they did their little awakening/suppression, split role trick. Which would imply that despite specialisation they usually have the same yoki signature

I don't think Raphealla is bad at yoki reading so it led to the "what if" of, what if at that point Clare is indistinguishable from Jean. Raphealla doesn't know which is which because they both seem to have the same yoki.

This of course is countered by the Rigardo elimination of the captains. But first how? Simply put Clare released a vast amount of yoki in order to align with Jean, the 'mental strain' was because she herself went over the limit, trying to pull off the trick she saw Galatea do, but from the perspective of someone with less yoki, as opposed to someone with more.

Now Clare, through choice, training, inheritence or whatever continually and actively suppressed her yoki. Ophelia, Flora, Miria, everytime she fought with another claymore it was shown that she didn't use what should have been available to her. (as the fight with Rigardo shows she can go the distance)

Miria after much time
"your'e fine when you're reading yoma energy, but switch to offence and you lose strength"

Ophelia
"too much wasted effort, even the way you fight. You suppress the strength it takes to ward off my attacks. You need to use it more efficiently"

Flora
"why...are you holding back"

In other words, Clare is always reducing her yoki, and it only had to be enough to not be targeted by Rigardo. Jean used the last of her yoki/life energy to 'align' with Clare and bring her back. But it left Clare radiating a vast amount of energy, which would have taken time to reduce again.
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Old 2009-02-13, 12:18   Link #2027
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I always like thinking about yoki quality, in the way of plutonium quality, where pure plutonium is the upper level, and then you have 90% in quality and so forth. But yoki quality can also be used to explain why Helen can have stretchy arms all the time, and Deneve regenerates at amazing rates, Miria being able to pull off more phantoms, and Clare's quick sword matching the wind cutter. For a normal Claymore, they can only do stretchy arms when they approach their limits, say maybe 70% yoki usage, which is around the level where Priscilla used stretchy arms. Since Helen has much higher yoki quality than an average Claymore, she can stretch her arms at much lower levels of yoki usage. Deneve and probably the ZACS also do not have to use as much yoki to heal themseleves as most Claymores do. Probably Clare's quick sword shows up as a smaller blimp on the radar (one which doesn't see quality) than Irene's at the same intensity would. Miria can do more Phantoms than before because each phantom requires less energy from her stores (yoki size) because that energy is more potent like a higher grade of plutonium or uranium would be.
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Old 2009-02-13, 12:41   Link #2028
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Sleepy Speculator: I think that Rafaela just going by Yokistrength as opposed to the components that make it up (Yokisize and Yokiquality). Since she used to train in doing Soul linking, it increases the possibilities that she has gained an insight to what makes up yoki. So Rafaela when looking at Jean and Clare sees two Claymores that are around the same strength. In the fight with Duff, it seemed to me that Clare, Jean and Galatea were equally effective. So at that point, it is very well possible, because of half awakenings, that both Clare and Jean are at around Galatea's strength level. So if Rafaela can see beyond yokisize then she sees two very powerful warriors that fall in the single digit range. it doesn't matter which one of those two appears more powerful either, because neither one looks like a number 47 to her. Now as for Priscilla and Rafaela, I'm not sure if they are seeing the components, or the overall strength of the yoki, or both. It can go any way, but I do know that they see more than just the size or amount of yoki.

But as far as I am concerned, those who can see more than just yoki size are: Miria, Priscilla, and Rafaela now.

Those who only see in terms of Yoki size are: Rigaldo and Galatea. Galatea probably could be trained to, IMO, since she is a yoki manipulator. It is just that she has such huge amounts of yoki, the highest of the 47 of her time, that she may never had to look into it as much as Rafaela looked into the details of yoki in Soul Linking, because Galatea could overpower people in her manipulation because of her gigantic stores.
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Old 2009-02-13, 15:56   Link #2029
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I was working more on the theory that Clare and Jean pulled off something dodgy without realising it. Clare jumped on Jean and instinctively released her yoki to do something which for Galatea required v.little and for Alicia requires next to none if any at all.

Now Raphealla did the same with her sister and fused due to their similarity, but during what was thought the hug of death she brought her stigma (stomach) and head in contact with her sister. Jean and Clare also are 'hugging' each other as they attempted alignment but without fusing. I don't think this was coincidental, accidental for the characters, but not coincidence considering the weak points inparticularly are the head and stomach.

Raphealla shows that their is a possible physical union, when the alignment may in fact be a different sort of union when both parties delibaretly participate. (ie not manipulation). That is to say Clare and Jean very briefly shared the same yoki signature and thus have a very similar yoki signature/aura post alignment that Raphealla is forced to ask which of them is which. Now i'm not talking about their overall strength or quality just what they look like from the yoki they radiate.

In other words it wasn't many half awakenings that made Clare stronger (she's considered weak at the start of the witch's maw), it was one (perhaps two) in particular that boosted her right into the single digit ranks. I'll list all the relevent yoki releases i can remember. *

Rabona - half awakening (gains access to Teresa's abilities and increased quality at the very least, did she pull back or did Teresa?, thanks to Rakis proximity)

Fighting Ophelia - cheated to save Raki immense str/speed with no problem coming back and healed up her leg wounds instantly

Rescuing Galatea - had a problem getting Ilena's arm to revert since she took it over the limit

Beserking at Duff - very nearly lost her mind, probably the first time you see an angry fight without the Teresa defence method.

*Aligning with Jean - back to protecting someone else, white out image of yoki use.

Turtle Ab - Was Deneve lying? probably not, just pseudo sexual banter...

Fight with Flora? - It may have been Clare went a little bit too much full power in that fight or Flora was talking about the Turtle Ab.

*Limb awakening- Fight with Rigardo,
Jean pulls a reverse by using what was left of her yoki to align with Clare? and dies doing it.
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Old 2009-02-14, 20:29   Link #2030
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy Speculator View Post
Raphealla shows that their is a possible physical union, when the alignment may in fact be a different sort of union when both parties delibaretly participate. (ie not manipulation). That is to say Clare and Jean very briefly shared the same yoki signature and thus have a very similar yoki signature/aura post alignment that Raphealla is forced to ask which of them is which. Now i'm not talking about their overall strength or quality just what they look like from the yoki they radiate.
Jean and Clare probably didn't have the same yoki sig. . Raffaella simply asked because she doesn't know who was who and she wanted to be sure despite probably knowing that clare was the weaker one.(emitted less of yoki)
Rigardo didn't see clare as a strong one but he identified jean as one of the 5 strong ones.
IMO it makes sense that like i said before
someone with densed, compressed yoki which i think is the same as high quality doesent emit as much yoki as someone with the same total amount of low quality yoki.
I used "quantity" not as the total amount of yoki a claymore has but as the amount she emits(can sensed by others from distance, and distance counts as we have seen with renee and priscilla) Therefore the half awakened were underestimated by the org. Raciellas yoki was highly compressed. Despite she was unbelievably strong Renee couldn't sense it until she deepscanned her. This is where i got the idea that yoki with high quality also highly compressed is more difficult to sense. So i concluded that the half - awakened increased their total amount of yoki which is at her disposal because they didn't appear weaker to others after the half awakening. If i'm right it would mean that clare perhaps even increased her quantity and quality after her super - half - awakening against rigardo because priscilla measured her as one perhaps the brightest light and i don't think that priscilla senses yoki in another way than rigardo who sensed her as a weakling. The basic principals should be valid for all awakened beings/claymores. IMO this is: from distance they sense what the target emits.
But it is still only theory,
Perhaps a higher yoki quality simply means that you can use it in ways which are normaly not possible and you have a better control over it and not that it is more compressed. But that the yoki only has changed somehow to another kind of yoki. Who knows...
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Old 2009-02-14, 21:03   Link #2031
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The theory works, and I always like having more than one solid theory floating around. I just like to say about Raciella's yoki, although I believe in Yoki compression, I don't think it was the case there. Instead, Renee first sees a faint light, just barely visible, in a sea of void. It isn't until she goes into that faint light and passes it that she sees the true hidden power of Raciella. To me that is Yoki Layering, where you have a faint low power yoki shell that hides the highly intense yoki core. The energy of the core does not shine through the lower intense yoki of the shell -- either is is blocked or reflected back inwards.
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Old 2009-02-15, 03:36   Link #2032
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@irvinethearcher I'm not gonna disagree with most of that theory, because it's logical and i like it. But there are some differences, Priscilla was a suppressing/non yoki using type claymore which is why they deployed her against Teresa, and now she's an Ab that like the ghosts hasn't used her yoki for a v.long time. Similarly Raciella has been in no condition to use yoki for 7 years but still ends up emitting some again.

By contrast Clare and Jean had just came out of a major battle and would have been emitting a lot of yoki showing their strength. Raphealla who is supposed to be at least proficient at dealing with yoki then asks which of them is which. I'm assuming that Rubul at least briefed her with the amount of information that Galatea had which was only her name and rank, yet right next to the #9 and Raphealla asked which of them is Clare, as if there was no difference. Which there may not really have been if Alicia/Beth are any indication for those who use alignment.

That is to say despite splitting roles between awakening and suppression they remain the same strength.

I see it as two liquids poured into one metaphysical container, then at the end redistributed back into two, for Alicia and Beth it's essential that this occurs after their controlled awakening so that there is no difference between Alicia and Beth. For Clare and Jean they are too different to go the distance but would still end up with the same yoki signature, regardless of their strength/size/quality, albeit only temporarily.
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Old 2009-02-15, 03:50   Link #2033
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I always enjoy your analysis Sleepy, It is very solid. There is just one little thing you should factor in, to clear up any holes in the theory. That is that Rafaela felt Clare when she was with Irene. It would seem that she would use Clare's signature to track her down, and that is how she found Clare and Jean by following the signature. This isn't arguing against your theory; ...just something you should explain when stating it. The explanation can be as simple as she was following a similar but slightly different yoki signature, one which both Clare and Jean have. Also, I've believed in Yoki transference for quite some time now, and I think that Clare has some of Jean in her as in yoki, which I see part of the spirit.
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Old 2009-02-15, 09:22   Link #2034
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Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta View Post
I always enjoy your analysis Sleepy, It is very solid. There is just one little thing you should factor in, to clear up any holes in the theory. That is that Rafaela felt Clare when she was with Irene. It would seem that she would use Clare's signature to track her down, and that is how she found Clare and Jean by following the signature. This isn't arguing against your theory; ...just something you should explain when stating it. The explanation can be as simple as she was following a similar but slightly different yoki signature, one which both Clare and Jean have. Also, I've believed in Yoki transference for quite some time now, and I think that Clare has some of Jean in her as in yoki, which I see part of the spirit.
If yoki transfer is possible, then Jean might have given Clare all her yoki right before she died. There are small hints in the story that yoki transfer might be possible (Racilia, Irene'arm(probably came with its own yoki)), but at this point we have no idea if yoki transfer is going to be part of the story. If Clare received jean's yoki, that would explain Priscilla's statement about two strong light.

Sleepy, I see what you are saying, but If it's possible to transfer yoki, I think it would have happened when jean died. Clare would have gotten an immediate yoki boost. That would explain why Rigaldo thought that Clare yoki was weak, but Priscilla saying that there was two strong light. If yoki is fixed (you can't produce more energy than you have), then Jean giving Clare her yoki when they first met would have weaken Jean.

I have no idea why Raphaella asked witch one of them is Clare.

1) If she tracked down Clare yoki after sensing it from Irean's place, there would be no reason to ask that question.

2) If Ruble had given her any description of Clare, then she should have been able to identify Clare without asking.

She could have been watching the Witchmar encounter with Riful and then just followed them when it was over. Even if she was not there, Ruble could have just asked her to scan the general area where Clare and Jean was last seen.
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Old 2009-02-15, 09:48   Link #2035
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Yoki transfer is possible, but so far it has been don by swapping body part (inserting yoma parts in humans, Irean's arm, Teresa's head).
Soul-link seem to be about swapping soul's not yoki.

Yoki transfer might be possible without giving up body parts. Jean told Clare to align her yoki with hers (assuming that means bought yoki are connected), so at than point she could have let go of her yoki and let Clare have it.

It might only be possible if bought patty involve are willing. If someone could go around stealing yoki from Claymores or Abs, that person would be supper strong. Riful said that Galatea can only manipulate her opponents yoki when they are not concentrating 100%, so taking someones yoki might be impossible without there approval.

Jean giving Clare her yoki, might be an easy way for Yagi to give Clare a power-up. If this is true, then the theme of Clare getting her power-ups from her hero's would have continued without us knowing (Teresa's ability/yoki, Irean's arm/yoki, Jean's yoki). Clare would have 1/2 of a #1 Claymore yoki, about 1/4 of a #2 yoki and 100% of a number #8 yoki.
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Old 2009-02-15, 10:00   Link #2036
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Yoki transfer is interesting because it bring up an interesting question. We know that body parts can be exchanged, but do you always get yoki with the body part, or you only get yoki if the donor give it to you with the body part?
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Old 2009-02-15, 13:25   Link #2037
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I'm only speculating, so of course i can't say anything for sure, but to answer the question it seems Rubul only deployed Raphealla to get Clare *after* Galatea failed, which she did whilst being observed by Alicia. I've often wondered if Galatea really was supposedly being nice to Clare and Jean when she gave up, or if there was something more to it, such as having a low chance of success, and hence being able to get away with abandoning her mission.

The progression as i said in my Clare could be #4 speculation, is obvious when you look at the respective power levels of the top digits/monsters of the org. That Miria pointed out, and Clare subsequently runs across.

#6 presumably submits an unhappy report about Clare/unknown team member, then survives a difficult hunt due to #47 (this was observed)

#4 technically the next rank up goes beserk and is killed in her awakened form by someone possibly her suspicious team mate in the Ab hunt. (likely to have been observed due to proximity of Raphealla in otherwise deserted area)

Clare reported AWOL

#3 dispatched but fails to return with Clare, supposedly submits a report about death of Clare despite being observed by #1 Alicia which Riful outright says is happening to not 1 but 2 sensor types (observed of course)

#5 technically the most powerful single claymore dispatched to complete the task #3 abandoned.

which leaves only #1 and #2 who are unsuitable for tasks which require 'subtlety', since they are nearly mindless.

When tracking they just follow from the last known sighting i'd imagine, which would be Alicia's knowledge given to Orsay that Clare isn't a bloody smear in Riful's little dungeon. And the speed with which Galatea closed in on Clare in the first place only occured once Clare was already fighting in the witch's maw. Clare had already spent several months running around dressed as a guy, and with enough pills in her pocket to be very hard to find conventionally. (again the only time anyone's actually shown some thought in a disguise, beyond the i'll put a suspicous cloak on and everything will be okay, school of how to be hidden in plain sight.)

Okay now as to actual yoki transfer and stuff, i've not fully thought about it, but it's obvious that Clare and Jean got very attached to each other 'ahem', and there is some indication that this may have been due to the little alignment they did. All that is known is that Jean used up all her life energy and released a ton of yoki which Clare thought could have been used for healing, on aligning in order to help Clare reduce her yoki back to claymore form. I never thought that her dying may have meant Clare absorbed the shared yoki, but i guess it's possible.
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Old 2009-02-15, 18:05   Link #2038
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Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
If yoki transfer is possible, then Jean might have given Clare all her yoki right before she died. There are small hints in the story that yoki transfer might be possible (Racilia, Irene'arm(probably came with its own yoki)), but at this point we have no idea if yoki transfer is going to be part of the story. If Clare received jean's yoki, that would explain Priscilla's statement about two strong light.
I like the analysis, and it does tie up the loose end of Priscilla seeing something that Rigaldo couldn't. I too have been going on the notion that Clare now has at least part of Jeans soul in her, that clare is now part Teresa, Irene and Jean, and that she really does owe it to them to continue her struggle. But I still like the notion that Priscilla is able to see beyond what Rigaldo did, and I do like the notion that Half awakeneds have better quality of yoki, and is why they are able to do things at low levels of yoki usage, like Helen and her stretchy arms, which took Priscilla to get past 70% to be able to do. So I am going with that a combination of Clare having Jeans soul in her now, and that she has compressed yoki in her.

Boy, Yoki Strength, Yoki Quantity, Yoki Quality, Yoki Comperssion, Yoki Supression, Yoki Layering, Yoki Transference, Yoki Alignment. :P We going to need a Wiki for all this stuff soon.

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strong light. If yoki is fixed (you can't produce more energy than you have), then Jean giving Clare her yoki when they first met would have weaken Jean.
It is possible that Yoki size is fixed, but I am unwilling myself to say so until the story reveals so for certain.

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I have no idea why Raphaella asked witch one of them is Clare.
It could of been out of just courtesy too. Sorta like Policeman comes to pick up Gangsta. He sees both Awakened and Gangsta, and knows who gangsta is, but still asks, "Which one of you is Gangsta," anyway. I mean, doesn't that happen all the time?
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Old 2009-02-15, 18:16   Link #2039
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Originally Posted by Sleepy Speculator View Post
I'm only speculating, so of course i can't say anything for sure, but to answer the question it seems Rubul only deployed Raphealla to get Clare *after* Galatea failed, which she did whilst being observed by Alicia. I've often wondered if Galatea really was supposedly being nice to Clare and Jean when she gave up, or if there was something more to it, such as having a low chance of success, and hence being able to get away with abandoning her mission.
I would have to say that Galatea was really being nice to Clare and Jean -- her comrades she made in battle. It would be out of character for her, otherwise, I think. Galatea is am honorable Claymore like Jean was. She was willing to sacrifice herself for a town after all.

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which leaves only #1 and #2 who are unsuitable for tasks which require 'subtlety', since they are nearly mindless.
I don't like the mindless bit; I mean Alicia was able to offer up an analysis about how much damage she could inflict on Riful before dying. To me, when I read the manga it came across of a lack of personality or individuality moreso than intelligence, which seems to be suggested now by linking the alicia/beth experiment to the ZACS. We'll find out when Alicia finally plays a bigger role in the story, I guess.

Quote:
Okay now as to actual yoki transfer and stuff, i've not fully thought about it, but it's obvious that Clare and Jean got very attached to each other 'ahem', and there is some indication that this may have been due to the little alignment they did. All that is known is that Jean used up all her life energy and released a ton of yoki which Clare thought could have been used for healing, on aligning in order to help Clare reduce her yoki back to claymore form. I never thought that her dying may have meant Clare absorbed the shared yoki, but i guess it's possible.
Well I dunno if initially Clare is more attached to Jean than Galatea. There is a certain camaraderie one gains from going through an ordeal together. Note that Clare is trying to get Jean to leave? Clare still rather be a loner than have her friend follow her.
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Old 2009-02-16, 07:58   Link #2040
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But Clare didn't try very hard to get rid of her considering the way she can behave when she's irritated, i mean Cynthia even warns her about not trying to run from herself and Yuma, which means Clare was likely thinking it, and they are comrades she's had for 7 years.
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