AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Claymore

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-10-24, 13:57   Link #201
Siva
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Wow, it seems like a big deal here.
I will use my theory to explain QS/FS and WC.

QuickSword/FlashSword:
-focuses ur yoki into ur arm and making your arm go berserk.
-this skill doesnt make the user quickly become an AwakenOne instead it would make your arm awaken so it doesnt have any effect to the other part of your body in the other word the user can reverse that arm back to normal just like Beth did the same to reverse Alicia back.
-QS/FS relies more on your controlling yoki into one arm.
-without berserk your arm = no QS/FS.

WindCutter:
-as you can see when Flora use WC fight against that AwakenOne it seem that AO able to control her WC so in the other word Flora's WC still use Yoki to perform it.
-it is kind of a weak version of QS/FS but it is completely not the same.
-WC relies more on your controlling physical body/arm and use yoki to boost its power. which is mean you can use WC without release your yoki but it wont be as good as when you combine it with your yoki. In the other word Flora's WC wasn't reach its ture powerful or potential yet or you can say that is her limit. How?

Explain: If you notice what deneve said that Clare is the one who has had the hardest time in those 7 years, and what i understand is Clare had been practicing her WC for 7 seven years by starting from being a noob and become a pro and practice it without release her yoki. Until now i think Clare's WC which doesnt use yoki is equal or even surpass Flora's WC which is the one that use yoki.
Siva is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 14:11   Link #202
Sassarai
Army of One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva View Post
WindCutter:
-as you can see when Flora use WC fight against that AwakenOne it seem that AO able to control her WC so in the other word Flora's WC still use Yoki to perform
It wasnt just Floras wc it controlled. That AB controlled everything. Only reason Clare was able to break out of it was because Irene's arm was at a much higher level. Thats what I thought at least.
Sassarai is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 14:24   Link #203
Tempest35
Awe of She
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
It wasnt just Floras wc it controlled. That AB controlled everything. Only reason Clare was able to break out of it was because Irene's arm was at a much higher level. Thats what I thought at least.
If I may, let's look at that scene this way:

The AB put down a [Lv 7] suppression field high enough to catch all four warriors including #8 Flora and force them down while manipulating a lower level as well. With Clare having the arm of a powerful #2 warrior, she was able to break the [Lv 7] field by using a technique that was much higher in Youki usage [Lv 9]than the suppression field could contain, thus she was able to move that arm only while performing the Quicksword technique.

Granted, this AB was probably only a Rank 20-something when he was alive, given his performance.
__________________
"Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."
Tempest35 is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 14:29   Link #204
Sassarai
Army of One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Thanks for putting what I said into MMorpg terms. Now all the WoW geeks will be able to get this.
Sassarai is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 14:33   Link #205
Tempest35
Awe of She
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando

...so what does that make me, who doesn't even play MMorpgs...
__________________
"Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."
Tempest35 is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 14:46   Link #206
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by khryoleoz View Post
Both are techniques, but I suppose a distinction is in order. Quicksword may not be a specific sword technique, but more of a yoki technique.
Agreed.

Quote:
It can be applied to various other aspects, but it is the Quicksword in a sword fighting application. Windcutter IS a specific sword technique, but it is one that doesn't make use of yoki release to perform. Check this out. If one were to use the Windcutter move and boost that movement with yoki, then by definition that too would be called Quicksword. Quicksword > Windcutter.
No. For one thing, what Quicksword gains in speed, it loses in precision. That makes using it in conjunction with Windcutter, which relies of precise movements to get the very most out of your arm, difficult.

For another, while it unnecessary, it's possible to boost your arm with yoki while performing the windcutter. Flora did it in her duel. But it's still Windcutter, not Quicksword.

I'd say that if Clare ever managed to smoothly combine Quicksword and Windcutter, she'd get a technique that's more powerful than either. But no indication so far she's done so. Indeed, she couldn't even train her Quicksword during 7 years, though she did get used to Irene's arm.

Quote:
I thought we've been comparing which technique would be more effective by a factor of power here (we already know Quicksword is faster). An old Yip Man might be able to beat Fedor Emilianenko, but there is no question that he will have to do so on aspects other than that of power.

A superior technique is more reliable and in that sense better than raw uncontrollable power. But that you bring this up shows that you're stuck on Quicksword being inferior based on what you've seen of it from Clare. Clare should stick to Windcutter from now on because she tarnishes the esteemed reputation of Quicksword by not being suited for it in the first place.
Give her a break. She hasn't had much time to polish it.
Anh_Minh is online now  
Old 2007-10-24, 14:53   Link #207
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
Yeah Im aware of the difference between the bandits and prissy but there wasnt much other sneak attacks I can refer to in Claymore. I would of had to bring in another anime maybe DRAGONBALL Z or something. My point was really just because it's a sneak attack from the rear doesn't mean someone is doomed. Especially if its the most powerful Claymore.
DBZ would be a bad example, because freeza was cut in half by an attack he did not see coming as well, and Cell was almost killed by a suprise attack from Goku.

The point is you can't avoid a sneak attack, because IT IS a sneak attack, you are not aware of it and it a stealth manuever which is ment to give a large advantage in battle, but Priscilla (in her oh-so-infinite wisdom) blew her advantage and chose to fight head on.

Quote:
Prissy's potential is just that. Potential. It doesnt get realized in less then a hour
Priscilla's potential has nothing to do with this >.< It could have well been Raphaela doing the sneak attack, and the outcome would be similiar.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 14:59   Link #208
Sassarai
Army of One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post

...so what does that make me, who doesn't even play MMorpgs...
It means you would make a great black mage. Now go out and buy Final Fantasy 11 and start lvling black mage.

Here's your bible








Fenrir - That potential was meant more for Khryleozlolz
As far as being able to avoid a sneak attack. I believe its possible and others as well. If you don't believe it can be done then I have nothing else to say Please don't make me watch dragonball to find a scene where a sneak attack didnt work Or else this might be turned into a thread I was asking for that got rejected.
Sassarai is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:03   Link #209
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
Fenrir - That potential was meant more for Khryleozlolz
As far as avoiding being able to avoid a sneak attack. I believe its possible and others as well. If you don't believe it can be done then I have nothing else to say Please don't make me watch dragonball to find a scene where a sneak attack didnt work
Sneak attacks are avoided when detected, my point is simply that Teresa did not detect Priscilla at all, thus would have not been able to avoid the attack.

If you want a DBZ example of where a sneak attack did not work, it was generally because in DBZ weak attacks bounce off stronger opponents, which does not happen in Claymore unless your an AB.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:04   Link #210
khryoleoz
Power of 9 SoShi-ist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No. For one thing, what Quicksword gains in speed, it loses in precision. That makes using it in conjunction with Windcutter, which relies of precise movements to get the very most out of your arm, difficult.
Difficult but not impossible. You can't even see Irene draw her sword. Yes, the precision is lost by the very fact that awakening a limb lends towards berserker movements. But Quicksword isn't just defined by the awakening of only the sword arm, but the extreme "moster" caliber concentration that must be employed to bring what otherwise would be berserker movements under control. This control is where Clare was severely lacking, and to the degree that she lacked this her potential for Quicksword was affected.

Quote:
For another, while it unnecessary, it's possible to boost your arm with yoki while performing the windcutter. Flora did it in her duel. But it's still Windcutter, not Quicksword.
I agree. That's why I'm forced to clarify that there's a difference between Flora's normal yoki boost and Irene or Clare's concentrated awakening of a single limb.

Quote:
I'd say that if Clare ever managed to smoothly combine Quicksword and Windcutter, she'd get a technique that's more powerful than either. But no indication so far she's done so. Indeed, she couldn't even train her Quicksword during 7 years, though she did get used to Irene's arm.

Give her a break. She hasn't had much time to polish it.
Alright. I'll give it to her. Clare does deserve a break for all she has been through, and I do hope to see her polish my favorite Claymore move.
khryoleoz is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:05   Link #211
Sassarai
Army of One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Teresa didn't detect her standing there. How do you know she wouldn't be able to detect it when prissy is in swinging motion or making the move? Last minute detection? To avoid fatal blow?
Sassarai is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:10   Link #212
khryoleoz
Power of 9 SoShi-ist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Right. Teresa's reflexes and perception were still better than Priscilla's at that point, so yoki supression or not she'd be able to react sufficiently.
khryoleoz is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:11   Link #213
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
Teresa didn't detect her standing there. How do you know she wouldn't be able to detect it when prissy is in swinging motion or making the move? Last minute detection? To avoid fatal blow?
Because how would she? It is like saying I could avoid being hit from behind when someone snuck up on me and clubbed me over the head. The overall point is simply that despite Teresa's superior skill and perception, she did not know Priscilla was there, thus could not guard against an attack that she did not know was coming.

---------

As for the Quick-Sword vs Windcutter debate, here are my feelings on it.

Overall Clare's Quick-Sword was equal to Flora's Windcutter, Flora having the advantage in power and accuracy, while Clare had the advantage in Speed.

If Irene had learned the Windcutter it would be slower then her Quick-Sword, but still have more power and accuracy.

So the respective strengths are still their, but the Windcutter also has the advantage of being Yoki-less, which is immensely important to Clare and the others right now.

The Windcutter simply sacrificed pure-speed for its other benefits, as the Quick-Sword requires you to throw a large amount of Yoki into one limb and concentrate on controlling it, which is something Irene was very good at.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:15   Link #214
Sassarai
Army of One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Because how would she? It is like saying I could avoid being hit from behind when someone snuck up on me and clubbed me over the head.
Well thats because Fenrir here's your stats


Fenrir_valindri
type: offensive
(compared to a claymore)
Yoki: E
Agility: E
Strength: E
Mental: A
Sense: A
Leadership: u/a


as you can see you would probably got clubbed in the head.
Sassarai is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:17   Link #215
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
Well thats because Fenrir here's your stats


Fenrir_valindri
type: offensive
(compared to a claymore)
Yoki: E
Agility: E
Strength: E
Mental: A
Sense: A
Leadership: u/a


as you can see you would probably got clubbed in the head.
Lol glad you think so highly of me, but i am refering to a normal human sneaking up on a fellow normal human clubbing sneak attacking, and thus a Claymore sneaking up on a Claymore sneak attacking should have a similiar result because, as far as we know, Teresa does not have Miata's sixth sense.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:23   Link #216
khryoleoz
Power of 9 SoShi-ist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Because how would she? It is like saying I could avoid being hit from behind when someone snuck up on me and clubbed me over the head. The overall point is simply that despite Teresa's superior skill and perception, she did not know Priscilla was there, thus could not guard against an attack that she did not know was coming.
What are you talking about? She perceived she was there without Priscilla having to announce her presence. So it's not as if she couldn't sense her entirely.

Quote:
As for the Quick-Sword vs Windcutter debate, here are my feelings on it.

If Irene had learned the Windcutter it would be slower then her Quick-Sword, but still have more power and accuracy.
I can't be so quick to accept this when the issue with regard to accuracy and precision and power is the degree of fine control. Yes, I can accept that a berseker power is harder to put under fine precise control, but it's not impossible as Irene shows. So provided that the control obstacle can be overcome, there's no way that Quicksword can't be just as precise but even more powerful by being faster.

Quote:
So the respective strengths are still their, but the Windcutter also has the advantage of being Yoki-less, which is immensely important to Clare and the others right now.
I agree. Either technique will be prefered over the other depending on the circumstance.

Quote:
The Windcutter simply sacrificed pure-speed for its other benefits, as the Quick-Sword requires you to throw a large amount of Yoki into one limb and concentrate on controlling it, which is something Irene was very good at.
Right. Now I'm lost. Where did we differ?
khryoleoz is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:26   Link #217
Sassarai
Army of One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Well find me a human with similar stats/abilities as Teresa I don't think you can use normal human comparisons imo. Anyways it's going to go in circles. *clubs Fenrir* ok over.
Sassarai is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:31   Link #218
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Because how would she? It is like saying I could avoid being hit from behind when someone snuck up on me and clubbed me over the head. The overall point is simply that despite Teresa's superior skill and perception, she did not know Priscilla was there, thus could not guard against an attack that she did not know was coming.
Hearing her breath? The vibrations of the ground?
Anh_Minh is online now  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:36   Link #219
Sassarai
Army of One
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Right on anh. Plus the sword swinging motion. I dont really think Teresa needs miatas 6th sense in order to be able to avoid it or make it a non fatal blow. I mean Teresa's perception is already high. If you look at the manga you can also tell that Prissy wasnt even that close to Teresa when she landed.
Sassarai is offline  
Old 2007-10-24, 15:39   Link #220
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
Well find me a human with similar stats/abilities as Teresa I don't think you can use normal human comparisons imo. Anyways it's going to go in circles. *clubs Fenrir* ok over.
That does not work quite as well when I see it coming. :P

Priscilla is not a normal human either, and as she showed, she could match blades with Teresa for a little while before Teresa could adjust to the pace of fighting an opponent who she cannot use her awesome Yoki-Detection on.

-----------------

Quote:
What are you talking about? She perceived she was there without Priscilla having to announce her presence. So it's not as if she couldn't sense her entirely.
Yeah, when Priscilla simply walked up, with her armored boots no less, right behind Teresa, well within striking distance.

As proven by Teresa's death, she does not have immaculate reaction time.

and I quote Teresa;

"There was another one? But I did not sense her aura at all!"

This is quite the display of shock from someone who "could have seen it coming" when she clearly states she did not.

------------------

Quote:
I can't be so quick to accept this when the issue with regard to accuracy and precision and power is the degree of fine control. Yes, I can accept that a berseker power is harder to put under fine precise control, but it's not impossible as Irene shows. So provided that the control obstacle can be overcome, there's no way that Quicksword can't be just as precise but even more powerful by being faster.
The problem here is the nature of the Quick-Sword requires extra effort to control it, while the Windcutter allows that control to be natural, so the higher precision is naturally a trait of the Windcutter, and since the Quick-Sword focuses on speed more then striking power, then the Windcutter comes out ahead in this department as well.

Quote:
Right. Now I'm lost. Where did we differ?
We don't really, I was just stating my opinion.


Edit: To Anh_Minh;

Come on now, vibrations in the ground, her BREATHING?!

Last I checked Teresa had just avoided 3 high ranked Claymores trying to kill her and jumped into the streets of a town, breaking through a glass window, to avoid them, and you guys expect her to notice that?
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.