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Old 2007-10-25, 16:55   Link #281
khryoleoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Actually mental focus in not what is required, lack of hesitation is, the reason Dauf's attacks were missing was because he was hesitant, I am quite sure he was VERY focused on hitting his target before, but he had reservations, which Riful banished by threatening him.
Riful had Dauf put all that he could into his strike. That wasn't just a matter of epistomology, but a forceful exertion of the will.



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Actually we don't know if she is good at hiding her Yoki, she is taking Yoki-suppression pills. Miata's power, enhanced senses, allows her to " fight without relying on the "filter" of thought, instead merely acting on instinct.
Ah, thanks for the memory jog.

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This gives her an immense advantage in the fact that she can analyze an attack almost instantly and, like Teresa's Yoki sensing, and predict the path of an attack.
She wouldn't be able to make a controlled response if she herself is being controlled though.

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In a way, this skill is completely superior to Teresa's Yoki sensing.
Man, what is it with you that you take far too much liberties to diss Teresa? The strength and essense of any yoma or hybrid (Claymore or AB) is their yoki. Any form of yoki supression would then put the yoma or hybrid at a disadvantage by not being able to call up their latent abilities that can only be tapped into by releasing yoki. So in that context there is NO WAY Maita's feral senses are superior to Yoki sensing.



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From what we have witnessed she can obliterate ABs without using Yoki at all, that kind shows us how good she is without Yoki >.<
Indeed, she's fearsome.

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Galatea's yoki control relies on psychological conditions, such as doubt and hesitation, to work on her opponents, and Miata lacks both of these when she fights.p
Galatea's yoki control relies upon the yoki. It is helped by the psychological conditions. The trick is rendered ineffective with the help of a strong mind. Maita lacking any mental activity apart from reflexive, instinctual responses without internal control leaves her yoki completely open to external control. Think of the mechanics behind the twins. Beth gains better control of Alicia depending on how well Alicia empties herself. So the less of Maita's personality (the part that does the willing) is present, the more susceptible she is to Galatea's trick.

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Not to mention the Yoki-suppression pills kinda throw this entire Yoki-manipulation deal out of the window before it gets going.
I think that this is what will help her with Galatea's yoki trick. It levels the playing field cuz Galatea wouldn't be likely to release yoki and give away her position to her pursuers.
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Old 2007-10-25, 17:12   Link #282
Fenrir_valindri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khryoleoz View Post
Riful had Dauf put all that he could into his strike. That wasn't just a matter of epistomology, but a forceful exertion of the will.
As Dauf himself said, he had been trying to hit her with all he had before, but Riful pointed out it was his hesitation and doubt keeping him from actually hitting her.

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Ah, thanks for the memory jog.


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She wouldn't be able to make a controlled response if she herself is being controlled though.
Their is also the factor that Miata has more Yoki then Galatea (in all likely hood) so this makes Galatea's trick even harder to use.

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Man, what is it with you that you take far too much liberties to diss Teresa? The strength and essense of any yoma or hybrid (Claymore or AB) is their yoki. Any form of yoki suppression would then put the yoma or hybrid at a disadvantage by not being able to call up their latent abilities that can only be tapped into by releasing yoki. So in that context there is NO WAY Maita's feral senses are superior to Yoki sensing.
Yes, but the downfall of Teresa's ability was an opponent who could suppress their Yoki, this is the only real flaw (other then a massive source of berserk Yoki) that could bypass this ability.

While Miata's ability effectively does the same thing (and more) while not relying on the enemies Yoki at all.

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Indeed, she's fearsome.
No kidding.

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Galatea's yoki control relies upon the yoki. It is helped by the psychological conditions. The trick is rendered ineffective with the help of a strong mind. Maita lacking any mental activity apart from reflexive, instinctual responses without internal control leaves her yoki completely open to external control. Think of the mechanics behind the twins. Beth gains better control of Alicia depending on how well Alicia empties herself. So the less of Maita's personality (the part that does the willing) is present, the more susceptible she is to Galatea's trick.
It relies on her synchronizing with her opponents Yoki, and an opponent who attacks without hesitation or reservation can punch right through this manipulation, as proven by Dauf.

Alicia is also not trying to fight against Beth's control, she surrenders herself to it.

Miata also DOES have a personality, a highly aggressive one, and she would likely lash out harshly, and with full strength, against any attempt to control her body.

Read what Riful said on pages 166-167, and it should help clarify this.

"Mislead, Careless, Relax, Distracts, and Doubt"

A Focused strike is something Miata is always doing, as a creature of instinct she understands she has to strike as hard and as fast as she can muster, which is what makes her so scary.

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I think that this is what will help her with Galatea's yoki trick. It levels the playing field cuz Galatea wouldn't be likely to release yoki and give away her position to her pursuers.
Heh it just gives Miata an extra handicap (which we can chuck Clarice in) for her fight with Galatea, as otherwise this would go downhill fast.
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Old 2007-10-26, 10:55   Link #283
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First thing, How many people here did actually think that Galatea would be start off with a fight against Miata instead of finding another way or thinking about something else? If you know what kind of character that Galatea has then you should already know the answer

@Sassarai: Wow, You have changed another avatar which is one of my favorite character too.
Deianeira Y Laitsa Altoria Ol Yunos and Galatea FTW
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Old 2007-10-27, 02:16   Link #284
khryoleoz
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Galatea would have little option but to fight. Maita isn't the type with whom to chat over tea to civilly discuss politics. I'm thinking it's not actually Galatea they're going to find. It's too soon for that confrontation...but then again I didn't expect Teresa to die...well, I saw it coming the moment she and Clare met. But before we were introduced to Teresa I mean. Am I making sense?

Last edited by khryoleoz; 2007-10-27 at 12:10.
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Old 2007-10-27, 07:52   Link #285
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Even Galatea is going to face Miata in that town, it still doesnt mean Galatea is going to die right away, if you compare about Miata's situation and Galatea's situation then you will see who has the advance.
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Old 2007-10-27, 12:05   Link #286
Fenrir_valindri
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Originally Posted by Siva View Post
Even Galatea is going to face Miata in that town, it still doesnt mean Galatea is going to die right away, if you compare about Miata's situation and Galatea's situation then you will see who has the advance.
Considering the plausible power difference, Miata has the advantage right now.

The only thing that is giving Galatea a chance is the number of handicaps forced upon Miata before the fight even begins.
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Old 2007-10-27, 17:56   Link #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Considering the plausible power difference, Miata has the advantage right now.

The only thing that is giving Galatea a chance is the number of handicaps forced upon Miata before the fight even begins.
That's what i'm talking about. Almost everyone thinks that Miata has the "great" advantage.

First, we don't know how much Miata is strong compared with others. Clarice is definitely not a reference.
It was only stated that she could aim to number #1. Yeah, that's a great thing, but it doesn't really reflect her true strength now.
It's not a direct comparison. Indeed, they are saying the same thing they said about Priscilla, that she has potential.

The freakin girl killed yomas with her bare hands. She definitely has a lot of potential, but I think she still has to mature (very much) and grow.

And by the way, Teresa tore apart one of awakened Rosemary's limbs.
Teresa had A for strength. We don't know how much of Hardness awakened Rosemary had, but it probably isn't something low.
So, we can assume that A for strength is the minimum required to make serious damages using bare hands, even on AB's.
Galatea had B+ to strength. It's the closest level down. She was not so far away.
There is the possibility of Galatea being even stronger now.

I'm not trying to say that Galatea would tear apart AB's limbs (I can't even imagine such thing) everytime she met one, but she has at least strength enough to nearly do it.
And also to show that what Miata did is rather savagery than real power.
(It still spooky though)


Second, Miata can solo and take AB's down. Ok. And Galatea can't?
I believe she can solo the majority of the AB's that appeared in the series.
Look at the way she fought Duff. She was very confident about her abilities, and the outcome would most probably be really different if Riful hadn't interfered.
And we never saw Galatea along with others, except by her handler, for doing her missions.
She was probably often designed to make recognition missions, but facing an AB all alone probably have happened many times for her.
Her technique was very effective against them as well. And it's not like everyone know the basics and mechanics of her technique to effectively overcome it.
Unless they have a coach working for them. (Go, go, go Riful!!!)

Galatea's routine:

Org: Make a recognition here, next mission go rescue a missing comrade (and face an Abyssal and her liutenant as bonus), and next week things will even get worse, because we are going to have a lack of 24 Claymores that were sent to War.

Few days later...

Org: It seems you're going to be very busy now, and we don't have much efforts for fighting other awakened beings either, so...



So, finally, I don't see a great difference of power. Miata has proven strong, but really that superior compared with other strong Claymores?
I don't see such advantage yet.

And cursed the Organization.
They only know how to produce powerful and freakin lolis to get rid of our favorite characters.

[fanboy on]
But no!!! Not this time!!! Not again... they are not going to prevail this time!!!
Let's go Galatea!!! It's time to prove they are wrong!!! I trust you!!!
To battle, Galatea!!!!! [/fanboy]
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Old 2007-10-27, 18:53   Link #288
khryoleoz
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Originally Posted by Fate_Archer View Post
And cursed the Organization.
They only know how to produce powerful and freakin lolis to get rid of our favorite characters.

[fanboy on]
But no!!! Not this time!!! Not again... they are not going to prevail this time!!!
Let's go Galatea!!! It's time to prove they are wrong!!! I trust you!!!
To battle, Galatea!!!!! [/fanboy]
You bring up a good point there. It's the lolis that have been the poison to the cool and elegant.

Claire weakened Teresa
Priscilla killed Teresa

Now Maita's gonna kill Galatea? It's so unfair. No loli ever got the best of Guts or Hajime Saito (bishounen maybe but not lolis).

The thing to be concerned about is that save for Maita's mental instability, the org considers her to be a potential candidate for the number one spot, a position currently held by the twins. Galatea was never awarded such consideration, but was instead treated like a hooker whose usefulness had become less valuable.
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Old 2007-10-27, 20:27   Link #289
Sassarai
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To me it's like even if Galatea owns her, Miata will probably end up awakening cuz she's such a nutcase. Since Galatea is a defensive type she can regrow parts though if she doesn't end up dead.
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Old 2007-10-27, 23:25   Link #290
Fenrir_valindri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate_Archer View Post
That's what i'm talking about. Almost everyone thinks that Miata has the "great" advantage.
Well she does.

Quote:
First, we don't know how much Miata is strong compared with others. Clarice is definitely not a reference.
It was only stated that she could aim to number #1. Yeah, that's a great thing, but it doesn't really reflect her true strength now.
It's not a direct comparison. Indeed, they are saying the same thing they said about Priscilla, that she has potential.
In case your forgot, Priscilla was #2 almost immediately, and could probably wipe the floor with Galatea in her Claymore form.

They also don't say "potential" they say "Miata always had the power to aim for number 1." So it is quite possible she already posses that strength, and was simply barred from a higher rank due to her mental state.

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The freakin girl killed yomas with her bare hands. She definitely has a lot of potential, but I think she still has to mature (very much) and grow.
Other then becoming mentally stable, their isn't much she could do to improve her fighting style, it already fits perfectly with her abilities.

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And by the way, Teresa tore apart one of awakened Rosemary's limbs.
Teresa had A for strength. We don't know how much of Hardness awakened Rosemary had, but it probably isn't something low.
Teresa's stats are also quite debatable, as proven by previous posts, and Rosemary's hardness was probably the same as the AB Ophelia killed.

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So, we can assume that A for strength is the minimum required to make serious damages using bare hands, even on AB's.
Galatea had B+ to strength. It's the closest level down. She was not so far away.
There is the possibility of Galatea being even stronger now.
+ indicates a level of proficiency above the norm, so Galatea's strength is a full level below Teresa's, and we are STILL not sure how much of a gap are between these grades.

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I'm not trying to say that Galatea would tear apart AB's limbs (I can't even imagine such thing) everytime she met one, but she has at least strength enough to nearly do it.
And also to show that what Miata did is rather savagery than real power.
(It still spooky though)
Savagery and power (at least in a very physical sense) are quite closely linked.


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Second, Miata can solo and take AB's down. Ok. And Galatea can't?
I believe she can solo the majority of the AB's that appeared in the series.
Look at the way she fought Duff. She was very confident about her abilities, and the outcome would most probably be really different if Riful hadn't interfered.
And we never saw Galatea along with others, except by her handler, for doing her missions.
I doubt Galatea could do it so effortlessly, and without using Yoki or her Yoki-manipulation.

I don't think Galatea was capable of killing Dauf either, but she did have the advantage before Riful told Dauf what he was doing wrong. Dauf isn't the brightest bulb in the box ya know.

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She was probably often designed to make recognition missions, but facing an AB all alone probably have happened many times for her.
Her technique was very effective against them as well. And it's not like everyone know the basics and mechanics of her technique to effectively overcome it.
Unless they have a coach working for them. (Go, go, go Riful!!!)
That is alot of assumption there, and if you were half-way intelligent you would notice your Yoki is being shifted of course, Flora seemed to realize what happened almost immediately when her Yoki was manipulated. Dauf was simply and idiot.

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Galatea's routine:

Org: Make a recognition here, next mission go rescue a missing comrade (and face an Abyssal and her liutenant as bonus), and next week things will even get worse, because we are going to have a lack of 24 Claymores that were sent to War.

Few days later...

Org: It seems you're going to be very busy now, and we don't have much efforts for fighting other awakened beings either, so...
Don't know what this has to do with anything :P



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So, finally, I don't see a great difference of power. Miata has proven strong, but really that superior compared with other strong Claymores?
I don't see such advantage yet.
Miata = Has always had the power to aim for #1

Galatea = Weaker (slightly) then Irene.

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And cursed the Organization.
They only know how to produce powerful and freakin lolis to get rid of our favorite characters.
It sure is a talent they seem to have. Although Alicia and Beth aren't Lolis.

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[fanboy on]
But no!!! Not this time!!! Not again... they are not going to prevail this time!!!
Let's go Galatea!!! It's time to prove they are wrong!!! I trust you!!!
To battle, Galatea!!!!! [/fanboy]
Oh I am certain someone will save her if the battle goes sour for her


--------------------

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To me it's like even if Galatea owns her, Miata will probably end up awakening cuz she's such a nutcase. Since Galatea is a defensive type she can regrow parts though if she doesn't end up dead.
From what we have seen so far of Claymore, I think Miata won't awaken simply because that is what everyone is expecting.
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Old 2007-10-27, 23:57   Link #291
Sassarai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post

From what we have seen so far of Claymore, I think Miata won't awaken simply because that is what everyone is expecting.
well there's not much choices that hasnt been mentioned over and over.

1)win
2)lose
3)escape
4)interrupted
5)awakened
6)not galatea
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Old 2007-10-28, 05:39   Link #292
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Well she does.
No she doesn't. Miata's only a killing machine and Clarice isn't adviser/brain (like Riful was for Dauf) but incompetent nanny (read: food producer) so Galatea's wits can easily overcome power disadvantage. What's more Galatea is one of the greatest characters in Claymore and I don't think author would want to rage a bunch of her fans by killing her. Not to mention it would be lame to kill another cool character just because.
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In case your forgot, Priscilla was #2 almost immediately, and could probably wipe the floor with Galatea in her Claymore form.
Depends on what You meant by "Claymore form", if up to 80% youki release then I agree. Priscilla in her claymore form (at 0%-10% youki state) was stupid fanatic who when given order "fetch" - fetched. Galatea wouldn't have a problem manipulating her until she started to release her youki.
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They also don't say "potential" they say "Miata always had the power to aim for number 1." So it is quite possible she already posses that strength, and was simply barred from a higher rank due to her mental state.
Miata is probably the strongest claymore of her generation but that doesn't mean she could beat Galatea on her first try. Galatea isn't someone who can be taken lightly even for Miata, after so many years she survived after all although she faced Riful and Organization (who had Alicia and Beth at the time) and many more dangerous situations.
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Other then becoming mentally stable, their isn't much she could do to improve her fighting style, it already fits perfectly with her abilities.
At first I didn't consider Miata's killing method as "fighting style" , she was just going berserk and brawling but when she threw her sword to rescue Clarice my mind changed, she's not so stupid as she looks, nonetheless she wouldn't stand a chance in battle of wits against Galatea. Still there is always sth to improve (or someone like handicap in the form of Clarice) .
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Teresa's stats are also quite debatable, as proven by previous posts, and Rosemary's hardness was probably the same as the AB Ophelia killed.
lol, as always underrating Teresa is to Your liking. The word "probably" in this case has so much probability as Rosemary being stronger AB than Priscilla's awakened form. Remember that Irene is from that generation too and yet she was never considered a candidate for first place. Until Rosemary deceased she wasnít even number two. As we know Irene had quite remarkable stats so Rosemary must had been even better.
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Savagery and power (at least in a very physical sense) are quite closely linked.
Someone can be savage but without much power so it's not closely linked. For example men who practice "woman boxing" (beating woman to react because they're too weak to fight with someone of equal strength) are savage but that doesnít mean theyíre strong.
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That is alot of assumption there, and if you were half-way intelligent you would notice your Yoki is being shifted of course, Flora seemed to realize what happened almost immediately when her Yoki was manipulated. Dauf was simply and idiot.
A lot of assumption ? Where ? Even lower numbered claymores fought AB so itís obvious that Galatea must had fought with even more. Her calmness when facing Dauff or Riful are proof of that, otherwise she would piss her panties like Audrey did.
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From what we have seen so far of Claymore, I think Miata won't awaken simply because that is what everyone is expecting.
After so many days of waiting almost every possibility was considered so I donít think that Yagi Norihiro can surprise everyone.
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Old 2007-10-28, 08:28   Link #293
BaalChaamon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Well she does.



In case your forgot, Priscilla was #2 almost immediately, and could probably wipe the floor with Galatea in her Claymore form.

They also don't say "potential" they say "Miata always had the power to aim for number 1." So it is quite possible she already posses that strength, and was simply barred from a higher rank due to her mental state.



Other then becoming mentally stable, their isn't much she could do to improve her fighting style, it already fits perfectly with her abilities.



Teresa's stats are also quite debatable, as proven by previous posts, and Rosemary's hardness was probably the same as the AB Ophelia killed.



+ indicates a level of proficiency above the norm, so Galatea's strength is a full level below Teresa's, and we are STILL not sure how much of a gap are between these grades.



Savagery and power (at least in a very physical sense) are quite closely linked.




I doubt Galatea could do it so effortlessly, and without using Yoki or her Yoki-manipulation.

I don't think Galatea was capable of killing Dauf either, but she did have the advantage before Riful told Dauf what he was doing wrong. Dauf isn't the brightest bulb in the box ya know.



That is alot of assumption there, and if you were half-way intelligent you would notice your Yoki is being shifted of course, Flora seemed to realize what happened almost immediately when her Yoki was manipulated. Dauf was simply and idiot.



Don't know what this has to do with anything :P





Miata = Has always had the power to aim for #1

Galatea = Weaker (slightly) then Irene.



It sure is a talent they seem to have. Although Alicia and Beth aren't Lolis.



Oh I am certain someone will save her if the battle goes sour for her


--------------------



From what we have seen so far of Claymore, I think Miata won't awaken simply because that is what everyone is expecting.
For someone who accuses others for making assumptions you sure make alot of those yourself.
Lets just stick to the facts and dont forget its a manga, it is supposed to entertain not cause "scientific"dispute.It is clear that Yagi-same didnt clarify these powerlevels specifically and only if we have a clear list of ALL character stats can we actually embark on a fruitfull discussion. Till then its "meaningless" chatter but oh well.

From all we know Galatea has been on the run from the Org for 7 years and even prior to that she was exposed to dangerous situations due to her disobedience in the Riful arc so I think its save to assume her strenght has grown considerably. Compared to the Seven survivors who just hid in the north she was on constant alert and possibly sharpened her senses and fighting power in 7 year long high risk situation on her own with no support. Irene just hid after she found a safe spot but from what the MiB have been saying it appears that Galatea has been constantly evading pursuit.

Plus we dont even know what level the AB one Miata faced had. For all we know it could have been a former lower ranked warrior.So meeh...
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Old 2007-10-28, 10:39   Link #294
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I always thought 99.233(repeating of course) of the debates here are all based on assumptions.
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Old 2007-10-28, 10:43   Link #295
BaalChaamon
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
I always thought 99.233(repeating of course) of the debates here are all based on assumptions.
which makes accusing other of making assumptions even worse
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Old 2007-10-29, 00:17   Link #296
Fenrir_valindri
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Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
No she doesn't. Miata's only a killing machine and Clarice isn't adviser/brain (like Riful was for Dauf) but incompetent nanny (read: food producer) so Galatea's wits can easily overcome power disadvantage. What's more Galatea is one of the greatest characters in Claymore and I don't think author would want to rage a bunch of her fans by killing her. Not to mention it would be lame to kill another cool character just because.
The point is exactly that Miata is a "killing machine" This is not a game of chess, it is a fight between an unsuspecting Galatea and Miata w/ tag along. Galatea is indeed a great character, and I honestly don't see her dying either, but I don't think she is going to win this fight.

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Depends on what You meant by "Claymore form", if up to 80% youki release then I agree. Priscilla in her claymore form (at 0%-10% youki state) was stupid fanatic who when given order "fetch" - fetched. Galatea wouldn't have a problem manipulating her until she started to release her youki.
I mean 0% Yoki Priscilla, as she has her Yoki fully suppressed, would kick Galatea around.

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Miata is probably the strongest claymore of her generation but that doesn't mean she could beat Galatea on her first try. Galatea isn't someone who can be taken lightly even for Miata, after so many years she survived after all although she faced Riful and Organization (who had Alicia and Beth at the time) and many more dangerous situations.
Miata has already been compared to the Organization itself to Alicia and Beth, simply by putting her as a contender for the #1 spot, which already puts her above Galatea. Galatea is never a person to be taken lightly, but I think people are glorifying her in a way that makes Miata seem like the underdog here, when it is quite the opposite.

She faced Riful (who spared her) and avoided the Organization (who, at the time, was in no condition to be dealing with rogue Claymores.) Now she is suppressing her Yoki in a fashion similar to Irene, and the 7 Ghosts. Galatea has been avoiding the Organization, not fighting all these years.

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At first I didn't consider Miata's killing method as "fighting style" , she was just going berserk and brawling but when she threw her sword to rescue Clarice my mind changed, she's not so stupid as she looks, nonetheless she wouldn't stand a chance in battle of wits against Galatea. Still there is always sth to improve (or someone like handicap in the form of Clarice) .
As I said, this is not a battle of wits we are dealing with now (I have no doubts Galatea would win that) right now we are dealing with a very direct and unexpected confrontation.

Galatea could have indeed improved, but how far she could improve while avoiding the Organization, and thus, conflict?

I have already stated the Clarice is one of the bigger handicaps for Miata, so I have no beef there.

Quote:
lol, as always underrating Teresa is to Your liking. The word "probably" in this case has so much probability as Rosemary being stronger AB than Priscilla's awakened form. Remember that Irene is from that generation too and yet she was never considered a candidate for first place. Until Rosemary deceased she wasnít even number two. As we know Irene had quite remarkable stats so Rosemary must had been even better. Someone can be savage but without much power so it's not closely linked. For example men who practice "woman boxing" (beating woman to react because they're too weak to fight with someone of equal strength) are savage but that doesnít mean theyíre strong.
and your saying the reverse is not just as laughable?

I say "probably" because I assume as much as you do about these things, there is always room for doubt when the power levels of Claymore is concerned.

For example: Irene, how do we know she was not a contender for #1 at some point, how do we know whether she was even active when Rosemary was? We do not know.

As for savagery, I suppose you have a point there, but I have always linked savagery as something of a more primal nature, such as surviving in a harsh wilderness with your wits and strength alone, then something as sickening as wife-beating.

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A lot of assumption ? Where ? Even lower numbered claymores fought AB so itís obvious that Galatea must had fought with even more. Her calmness when facing Dauff or Riful are proof of that, otherwise she would piss her panties like Audrey did.
Galatea's role as the eye puts her in a unique position of being useful to the Organization without directly being in battle. Her calmness against both Dauf and Riful is indeed to be admired, and a sign of her experience, but that does not mean she has soloed ABs before, although it may well be within her capabilities.

I don't think Audrey lacked experience against ABs either, it was just a matter of personality traits at that point, the "fight or flight" similar to how Irene could not continue as a warrior after the Priscilla incident.

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After so many days of waiting almost every possibility was considered so I donít think that Yagi Norihiro can surprise everyone.
Some possibilities are less likely then others But your right, we have all had way too long to think about this.

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For someone who accuses others for making assumptions you sure make alot of those yourself.
Never said I did not make assumptions myself, I admitted as such several times. I simply like to make clear that we can't be sure over certain points, because they are assumptions.

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Lets just stick to the facts and dont forget its a manga, it is supposed to entertain not cause "scientific"dispute.It is clear that Yagi-same didn't clarify these powerlevels specifically and only if we have a clear list of ALL character stats can we actually embark on a fruitfull discussion. Till then its "meaningless" chatter but oh well.
"meaningless" chatter can be entertaining, and it is funny how you say "stick to the facts" when we are all theorizing here.

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From all we know Galatea has been on the run from the Org for 7 years and even prior to that she was exposed to dangerous situations due to her disobedience in the Riful arc so I think its save to assume her strenght has grown considerably. Compared to the Seven survivors who just hid in the north she was on constant alert and possibly sharpened her senses and fighting power in 7 year long high risk situation on her own with no support. Irene just hid after she found a safe spot but from what the MiB have been saying it appears that Galatea has been constantly evading pursuit.
Being on the run does not = more power, as you spend more time avoiding then confronting. Being on her own and having the largest Yoki-detection range of her generation, and possibly even this generation, not to mention the state of instability of the Organization at the time, made her escape significantly easier then it would have otherwise been.

I think Galatea's situation mirrors Irene's more then the 7 ghosts, as she cannot afford to train because she is alone, so her strength, if it has increased at all, has quite possibly not improved as significantly as the 7 ghosts have.

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Plus we dont even know what level the AB one Miata faced had. For all we know it could have been a former lower ranked warrior.So meeh...
Clarice states they have encountered countless number of Yoma and Awakened Beings. So we can easily say that Miata has fought more then her fair spread of ABs while being on the Yoki-suppression pills, and has come out unscathed so far.

--------------

Just to clarify, I don't think Galatea is going to die, but I don't think she will win the fight either. A standstill is quite possible with the (very) probable hostage of Clarice. Not to mention all the possible intervention in the form of 7 Ghosts, ABs, and Rafaela.
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Old 2007-10-29, 02:23   Link #297
FateAnomaly
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Galatea just have to throw Clarice over a cliff or something to win. (Miata will jump right in to rescue her). But of course she is not that type of person.
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Old 2007-10-29, 11:56   Link #298
zato_1one
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If Miata starts to awake while fighting. I'm sure Galatea will use her ability to help suppressing Miata's Yoki. And because of that Galatea may be killed off guard by either Miata or Clarice. *_*
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Old 2007-10-29, 15:19   Link #299
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
I mean 0% Yoki Priscilla, as she has her Yoki fully suppressed, would kick Galatea around.
Nah, Galatea at 70%-80% youki release would definitely overpower 0% Priscilla. Probably even without releasing youki she could manipulate her.
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As I said, this is not a battle of wits we are dealing with now (I have no doubts Galatea would win that) right now we are dealing with a very direct and unexpected confrontation.
Well in battle intelligence is quite important. I'm sure You would agree that Miria wouldn't lose to Miata (she could even win) especially if she foreseen that someone might come to kill her. Who knows maybe Galatea prepared special ground with traps or has diversion somewhere so her losing isn't that obvious. In Miata vs Galatea fight Galatea has disadvantage - I agree but in Galatea vs. Crarice + Miata I think Galatea would win and that would be the situation here.
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Galatea could have indeed improved, but how far she could improve while avoiding the Organization, and thus, conflict?
Even if she didn't avoid organization I doubt she would fight her fellow comrades, she was like Teresa at that so Organization wouldn't improve her abilities. She could experiment on yoma though and test her strength on Awakened Beings. I'm sure she would find appropriate adversaries (not too strong, not too weak).


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and your saying the reverse is not just as laughable?
Nope, I haven't written that. I've just written that what You wrote has the same probability as what I wrote (i.e. zero).
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I say "probably" because I assume as much as you do about these things, there is always room for doubt when the power levels of Claymore is concerned.

For example: Irene, how do we know she was not a contender for #1 at some point, how do we know whether she was even active when Rosemary was? We do not know.
How do we know she was not a contender for #1 at some point ?
Well for starters Irene's stats are great but comparing them to Teresa's, Rafaela's, Alicia's or even #4 Ophelia's her inferiority is shown. What's more, she could be only considered container for number one before Rosemary, because it was clearly stated that Rosemary was degraded when Teresa became full fledged claymore. One generation isn't that long so I don't think it was possible. Nonetheless she would be weaker than Rosemary.

How do we know whether she was even active when Rosemary was ?
We don't but we can assume so with high probability of being right. Claymores didn't come from nowhere, they trained not too long before going into real battle. So I don't think that Irene's case was similar to Priscilla's. Rosemary was #1 so she must have had high amounts of youki and quite much time must have went by before her awakening. Irene was either: a) before, b) after, c) at the same time when Rosemary came.
a) Irene must had been weaker than Rosemary (look at answer for the first question)
b) She would be weaker than Rosemary because she couldn't take #1 position herself and she would know her previous #1 comrade.
c) answer the same as for a) or b)
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Old 2007-10-29, 15:27   Link #300
Fate_Archer
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@Gooral: Thanks for the defences while I was absent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
They also don't say "potential" they say "Miata always had the power to aim for number 1." So it is quite possible she already posses that strength, and was simply barred from a higher rank due to her mental state.
I don't think so... besides her great mental instability, she still has very much to grow (physically, mentally). Look at her size. She seems to be even smaller than little Teresa.
She is already very strong now, but that's not the full extent of her powers.
The mental instability is probably not the only thing.

Priscilla always had the power to aim for number #1 as well.
Indeed, she was going to be number #1 of the next generation if she had succeeded without awakening.

Aim for #1 and be the number #1 are very different things.
Priscilla aimed for #1. Teresa was the number #1.
Don't need to say anything more about this, I think.

So, I think the Organization's statement states that Miata has the potential (chance to grow and develop) to be number #1 someday.
It doesn't state that Miata now, has the powers of a number #1.

And we should consider the possibility of Claymores developing and getting stronger without partially awakening.
Do you really think little Teresa had the same powers she had when she defeated her death squad?
Hard to believe.

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Other then becoming mentally stable, their isn't much she could do to improve her fighting style, it already fits perfectly with her abilities.
By becoming a stable warrior, Miata could fight more consciously and know even more about her unique abilities.
If she could use all of her already great power in a more efficient and intelligent way, she would be even stronger.
In order to make all of this happen, she needs to break through her mental instability and grow stronger.

I think that's what it takes for Miata to become a number #1 and surpass the theoretically stronger Alicia.

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+ indicates a level of proficiency above the norm, so Galatea's strength is a full level below Teresa's, and we are STILL not sure how much of a gap are between these grades.
So, this means that Galatea is very skilled at strength. Teresa didn't have proficiency at strength. And while we really don't know the gap between these two levels, it can't be too much. I think it's like comparing the kid who only has B+ grades with the one who only takes A. The last one is better, but is the first utterly weaker than the last one?

Also, Galatea pierced Dauf's hand with his own poles. (I'm talking about the hard side)
Clare only did that while in berserk mode and using a lot of yoki, and she also used her Claymore.

Ok, Galatea used 10%. But C'mon... the girl is a powerhouse too.

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I doubt Galatea could do it so effortlessly, and without using Yoki or her Yoki-manipulation.

I don't think Galatea was capable of killing Dauf either, but she did have the advantage before Riful told Dauf what he was doing wrong. Dauf isn't the brightest bulb in the box ya know.
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That is alot of assumption there, and if you were half-way intelligent you would notice your Yoki is being shifted of course, Flora seemed to realize what happened almost immediately when her Yoki was manipulated. Dauf was simply and idiot.
Galatea doesn't like to use yoki. It's against her aesthetics* concepts.
She only used against Dauf when she was very pressed.

Her mastery at her technique of yoki-manipulation proves that she has done it a lot.
And in first place, Galatea was Org's number #3. In addition, she was the eye of her generation.
She had a special status that influenced the nature of her missions, but Galatea's number alone was a strong indication that she faced AB's.

Also, I realized that Dauf's skin right on his neck is softer than his normal hard skin.
Therefore, maybe... using this weak spot, things could get nasty for Dauf.
And I don't have any doubts that he could have forgotten how to overcome Galatea's technique.

[fanboy]
So... ... ...
You can come anytime Dauf!!! She is waiting for round two.
And things will not be the same as last time.
[/fanboy]

While using her technique, I think she could kill an AB (weak or medium) effortlessly. (Yeah, this is out of the [fanboy] tags)

And no, Flora only realized that her swing hadn't hit the AB.
Clare, who knew this technique by Galatea, was the one who told Flora that the AB was manipulating her yoki.

Until now, besides Galatea herself, only Riful knew exactly how this technique works.
Not very surprising coming from an AO.

* Thinking about...

Galatea is tough, powerful, intelligent and yet is elegant, beautiful and also a very feminine character.
She has all these character and personality traits without contrasting them.
All fits so harmoniously on her.
Galatea is so lovely.

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Don't know what this has to do with anything :P
It shows that when the Org lacked Claymores in the Northern Campaign, Galatea was the only high ranked available for doing other extermination missions.
And as she said, because of that, she was very busy. (hunting AB's maybe?)

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Miata = Has always had the power to aim for #1
Answered above.

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Galatea = Weaker (slightly) then Irene.
Ok.

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It sure is a talent they seem to have. Although Alicia and Beth aren't Lolis.
Yes, but Priscilla, Riful and Miata are. Priscilla killed Teresa, and now Miata and Riful are after the footsteps of my dear...

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Oh I am certain someone will save her if the battle goes sour for her
Look at my sig. She is ready, no matter what.
I trust her. (more specifically, in Yagi's pen )

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Originally Posted by BaalChaamon View Post
Lets just stick to the facts and dont forget its a manga, it is supposed to entertain not cause "scientific"dispute.It is clear that Yagi-same didnt clarify these powerlevels specifically and only if we have a clear list of ALL character stats can we actually embark on a fruitfull discussion. Till then its "meaningless" chatter but oh well.
It makes part of the joy making speculations/assumptions and having these 'meaningless' chatters.
I like to have these talks. (And so do many others as well, I think)
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