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Old 2008-01-28, 06:04   Link #81
Haru~
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I think
Spoiler for something:


I think the reason why you don't like her is she's too kind to be true... which pisses a lot of people because they like hardcore girls who kick butt... I don't think she's "unreal" too, I believe there are still people in this world who will sacrifice their dreams for others... agreed to C.A.
@ Stretch- I think you are not sharing a fair opinion.... Just asking for flame...
I don't hate you ( Nagisa-fan here) I think there is no reason to argue with you since you adore Tomoyo route... Since you played the game.I assume.. you already know the most important route that will send the real meaning of Clannad....
And already know the two antennas... Like I said if she's a cockroach, she's the cutest cockroach I've ever seen....
Even Akio has antennas...

As for TomoyaxNagisa, no need to explain... if it is shallow or not.... but atleast they are supporting each other, got closer, and like said.. a Deeper bond..I think someone wants
Spoiler for hehe:
to prove a "chemistry"

Sigh.
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:07   Link #82
Stretch5920
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I may come on a bit strong, but I believe my opinion is a fair one. After all criticism is just as important as approval. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, just stating my own. I will play the After Story when it is translated to get the full story, but I already know roughly what happens. I'm not that keen on
Spoiler:
so I don't expect to like it that much, and if I get bored during it I will stop playing, after all there's no point playing/watching if I don't find it entertaining. The meaning or theme of Clannad is family, and that message is in everyone's route (that I have played anyway) not just Nagisa's.

I didn't come in here to piss people off. I just wanted to state that this character is the reason I lost interest in the show and why I don't like her character. This thread isn't only for people who like Nagisa and I never said that people should agree with me. If people see my post and rage over the fact that some doesn't like a character they do, well that says more about them than it does about me. I like Tomoyo the most, I'm sure there are people out there who hate her for whatever reason and that's fine. Like I said before, not everyone is going to like every character.
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:26   Link #83
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Well I'm not sure who's raging, or rather who's raging more. You wanted to punch a girl, told us that you think the anime will butcher your favourite character. Which is wrong to do and not true to us. Punching a girl is something I definitely won't take and the anime has been pretty wonderful for most of us.

Its weird that people are actually angry over people who are good. If there indeed is a person in the world who's like Nagisa, would she recieve praise or hatred? The world is bad, humans are bad, we actually need people who are good.

I've never understood why people want to express their negative reactions when they know they are going to cause flames. I've never posted anything of such nature against an anime, to get people against me. But I was known to be overly defensive over my interests.

I'm about to return to camp so I won't be hanging around here anymore, so I'll just leave this here.
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:18   Link #84
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I hate to say this,but Nagisa's character is unreal.I mean,can you find a person like Nagisa in real life?There may be such person but i say chances that you will encounter them are very slim.

You know,something has always been bothering me while watching Japanese animes.Those high school or elementary girls in the anime are always like too polite and too kind.It seem like they are so sweet and innocent characters.They won't or rarely blame others for the mistake he or she did to them.They will like "Oh,it's okay.I understand your feelings." Let me ask you a simple question.Do you know any kind of these people?I don't,and even the kindest friend i have sometimes display rotten personality.

Nagisa is one such character.While it is good to see such kind heroine,sometimes i can't help but say to myself "Meh,how unreal."Which is why if you ask me to choose between Nagisa and Shana,i will go for Shana.Shana has lots of flaws in my opinion,but it is those flaws that make her more natural and acceptable to me.

It's not that i like "hardcore girls who kick butt" like rave_master16 said,but i just want to watch a character that i could relate to reality.
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:31   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinatsu-no-miya View Post
I hate to say this,but Nagisa's character is unreal.I mean,can you find a person like Nagisa in real life?There may be such person but i say chances that you will encounter them are very slim.
That is actually funny but I know a person like that. Not as moe moe and stuff, but devoted naive, kind to be selfless, yes.

Quote:
You know,something has always been bothering me while watching Japanese animes.Those high school or elementary girls in the anime are always like too polite and too kind.It seem like they are so sweet and innocent characters.They won't or rarely blame others for the mistake he or she did to them.They will like "Oh,it's okay.I understand your feelings." Let me ask you a simple question.Do you know any kind of these people?I don't,and even the kindest friend i have sometimes display rotten personality.
As I wrote above, yes. Obviously this archtype is very rampant in anime, that's because they tend to use empathic and sweet characters which are way more rare in the harsh reality. It doesn't mean it is impossible, especially if one restrict to his own experience.

Reality or not, it is a fictional character in a fictional story. Even if it has a reality basis, I don't see how it is a problem until someone developped a dislike for this kind of character.
Quote:
Nagisa is one such character.While it is good to see such kind heroine,sometimes i can't help but say to myself "Meh,how unreal."Which is why if you ask me to choose between Nagisa and Shana,i will go for Shana.Shana has lots of flaws in my opinion,but it is those flaws that make her more natural and acceptable to me.
That's actually quite ironic because I feel the usual "tsundere" type is almost as unreal as "too sweet to be true" characters.
Quote:
It's not that i like "hardcore girls who kick butt" like rave_master16 said,but i just want to watch a character that i could relate to reality.
Why are you watching an anime involving an astral projection, a moving robot, a mysterious girl, a outer world with sparking lights etc?
To be more serious, anime tend to paly with both fantasy and reality, though I'm unsure why they should stick with "down to earth" pattern considering the potential and possibilities given in this media.

I mean... we are watching anime for enjoyement, am I right? Hence, why it must be bound to reality at 100% synchro?

That said, I can relate how things might be "exaggerated" in a sense, but seriously, I think this kind of points are taken way too seriously.
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:57   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That is actually funny but I know a person like that. Not as moe moe and stuff, but devoted naive, kind to be selfless, yes.


As I wrote above, yes. Obviously this archtype is very rampant in anime, that's because they tend to use empathic and sweet characters which are way more rare in the harsh reality. It doesn't mean it is impossible, especially if one restrict to his own experience.

Reality or not, it is a fictional character in a fictional story. Even if it has a reality basis, I don't see how it is a problem until someone developped a dislike for this kind of character.

That's actually quite ironic because I feel the usual "tsundere" type is almost as unreal as "too sweet to be true" characters.

Why are you watching an anime involving an astral projection, a moving robot, a mysterious girl, a outer world with sparking lights etc?
To be more serious, anime tend to paly with both fantasy and reality, though I'm unsure why they should stick with "down to earth" pattern considering the potential and possibilities given in this media.

I mean... we are watching anime for enjoyement, am I right? Hence, why it must be bound to reality at 100% synchro?

That said, I can relate how things might be "exaggerated" in a sense, but seriously, I think this kind of points are taken way too seriously.
Yeah,i know i shouldn't take this too seriously since this is just an anime,but i can't help but feel that way after most of the heroine i watched in animes are like that.That said,i didn't mean that Nagisa is not a likeable character,so don't get offended by what i said.It is just a matter of opinion.
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Old 2008-01-28, 11:02   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinatsu-no-miya View Post
Yeah,i know i shouldn't take this too seriously since this is just an anime,but i can't help but feel that way after most of the heroine i watched in animes are like that.That said,i didn't mean that Nagisa is not a likeable character,so don't get offended by what i said.It is just a matter of opinion.
Indeed, I don't see why a character should be liked by everyone just because of some sweet assets. After all, even the most holy characters can be hated for "shallow parts" etc. It might look ridiculous for the fans, but it might be justified for others. It is just relative to the view stand point after all.

As you said, it is kinda a trend the anime series are taking recently. Whichever it is a good or bad thing is up to the viewer I believe. though, some disagreements sound a bit "useless" in a sense that people should not take things out of the character/series "pretention" ^^
In my mind, I would rather welcome colorful characters instead of brooding ones, etc. It is quite on a whim though.
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Old 2008-01-28, 15:08   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch5920 View Post
In the latest ep I wanted to punch her in the face for just rolling over for the underclassmen. Some people might say what she did was nice, but I think it was idiotic.
I have to say as much as I'm on the opposite spectrum of you on the subject of liking Nagisa, I agree with you. I mean how are you going to achieve your dreams if you keep bending over like that? I probably would've acted much the same way as Sunohara or Kyou. Being one of Nagisa's friends that worked hard to help her establish a club, then for her to step out of the way like that, I would feel betrayed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That's actually quite ironic because I feel the usual "tsundere" type is almost as unreal as "too sweet to be true" characters.
Hmmm I don't know, in my experience I've met quite a few people that I could categorize as 'tsundere', while I really only met one person ever that I would think about categorizing in 'too sweet to be true'.

Just personal experience of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Indeed, I don't see why a character should be liked by everyone just because of some sweet assets. After all, even the most holy characters can be hated for "shallow parts" etc. It might look ridiculous for the fans, but it might be justified for others. It is just relative to the view stand point after all.
Shallowness is probably the trait that plagues most anime characters that have a personality like Nagisa's. Nagisa is definitely not shallow though, and her relationships with the various characters of Clannad appear to be not forced at all. Because of that, I think people that do like Nagisa aren't just looking at the superficial level.
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Old 2008-01-28, 15:26   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinatsu-no-miya View Post
Yeah,i know i shouldn't take this too seriously since this is just an anime,but i can't help but feel that way after most of the heroine i watched in animes are like that.That said,i didn't mean that Nagisa is not a likeable character,so don't get offended by what i said.It is just a matter of opinion.
I understand your thoughts as it was the same as mine, which I posted a couple of pages back. Nonetheless, an Anime is still an Anime regardless of how the author wishes to portray the characters. IMO, the reason you're pissed is probably because you've watched various types/genre of Animes for quite some time. Some tend to be realistic/easy to relate to in real life, eg: Honey and Clover while others are just common/easy to spot but at the same time unique like Clannad. Although some characters may seem too good to be true eg: Nagisa, in the end we still watch the show for the sake of curiosity and fun, whether we choose to like it or not is another debate. A series itself is like a packet of candies where we can pick
what we like and discard some which we dislike, so it's all good.. at least for me.
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Old 2008-01-28, 16:23   Link #90
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Nagisa was absolutely right with her decision. What sense does it make to achieve ones dream when you have to destroy someone else's dream? That's nothing she would do, because she would never be happy with this, and that's why I like her.
I feel a bit sad for the people who don't want to understand that though...
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Old 2008-01-28, 16:35   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Khaos View Post
Nagisa was absolutely right with her decision. What sense does it make to achieve ones dream when you have to destroy someone else's dream? That's nothing she would do, because she would never be happy with this, and that's why I like her.
I feel a bit sad for the people who don't want to understand that though...
Not sure I agree with her decision being right or wrong, rather that it's just a decision. At what point does one stop sacrificing their own happiness for others? While there's no set line as it varies from person to person, I think she takes it a little too far.

That said, she's an idealist, but perhaps a little too short sighted, and inadvertently, a lot more selfish than one might be led onto believe or want to believe. Her sacrifices generally force those close to her to make sacrifices in order to placate herself and it's a trend that's seen also in the game, imho. Don't get me wrong, she's not being cunning or manipulative....it's just the consequences of her personality type.
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Old 2008-01-28, 17:53   Link #92
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Originally Posted by mandarb916 View Post
Not sure I agree with her decision being right or wrong, rather that it's just a decision. At what point does one stop sacrificing their own happiness for others? While there's no set line as it varies from person to person, I think she takes it a little too far.
As I said, she can't be happy it she knows, that the pursuit of her dream on a certain way would destroy another one's dream. This is no price she would want to pay.

Quote:
That said, she's an idealist, but perhaps a little too short sighted, and inadvertently, a lot more selfish than one might be led onto believe or want to believe. Her sacrifices generally force those close to her to make sacrifices in order to placate herself and it's a trend that's seen also in the game, imho. Don't get me wrong, she's not being cunning or manipulative....it's just the consequences of her personality type.
She forces nothing, it is the decision of the people around her to "sacrifice" something to help her finding other solutions as it is her decision to "sacrifice" the club for the choir club. And I really don't like the word "sacrifice" here, it sounds like there would be anything bad about doing anything you can for those you love.
They help her because they are her friends and it is their very own determination, Nagisa wouldn't be able to manipulate anyone, her personality denies it.
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Old 2008-01-29, 03:28   Link #93
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You know I think all of you were moved by Nagisa's self-sacrifice... and you pissed off like Youhei Sunohara....haha
For Nagisa's "unreal" personality, are you saying she's too-good-to-be-true...
And for me I watch anime as an escape in reality...because only in anime we see this kind character that we don't normally see and we really can't see in real life.
And also the personality of Nagisa is I think making us hope that there are still people in this world like her.....(Well normally people reach their dreams by stepping another) and i think Nagisa's decision is for the best that she think Though it was a let down that all of her friends help her up to this point...
And as I said Im not angry... And Im not going to punch a girl because she didn't do thing I wanted to happen..

And 1000 kicks combo is "unreal" too

Sigh.
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Old 2008-02-03, 10:10   Link #94
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"The Choir Club is seriously trying to create music, but the Theatre club is.."

IMO, Nagisa thinks that Nishina-tachi (the Choir Club) is more serious than her, because she even failed to find even a person who shares the same interest with her, while the choir club had 3 members(?) already.
I remember also she said something about how she felt like she was lying to the student council.

It could also be, that she still have no idea about what she should do after she rebuild the club. In this case, it's not about her being overly kind, it's just hesitation.

I am a normal person, but if I was on Nagisa's shoes, I might do the same as her.
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Old 2008-02-03, 11:39   Link #95
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why isnt nagisa walking with tomoya to school in these past eps?i thought they did do that b4.
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Old 2008-03-01, 16:17   Link #96
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just watched ep 19
then went back and watched ep 1 again
is nagisa the same character
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Old 2008-03-01, 16:26   Link #97
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Definitely not and her development took 18 episodes.
She was already "upgraded" with episode 15 already (though Fuuko's arc got tons of these as well).
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Old 2008-03-01, 17:20   Link #98
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Originally Posted by X207 View Post
why isnt nagisa walking with tomoya to school in these past eps?i thought they did do that b4.
No, they weren't most of the time, I'd imagine. After all, how else would Tomoyo stalk wake him up and make sure he'd come to school on time? I think their walking together has mostly been the exception, not the rule, up to this point, with the key scenes being episodes 1 and 10.
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Old 2008-03-01, 17:41   Link #99
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I've fallen in love with Nagisa. She's a great character, who has a lot of flaws, but is growing more and more. And this is mostly thanks to Tomoya. And you could say that this words in reverse as well. Nagisa helps Tomoya to grow as well. That's why I like them as a couple as well.

Some people say that she's acting out of character now and I have to disagree with that. I think her development has been handled very well actually. It took some time, but she's finally opening up. She's been developping during all the arcs, while the focus was more on the other characters, but she's been growing during those arcs as well, and especially during the Fuuko arc.

Don't forget...she finally managed to create the theater club...this must have given her a boost of convidence as well...and Tomoya was cheering her on and telling her to work hard and do her best. And now she's doing just that. And because of this we get to see her confident(and somewhat bossy XD) side as well.

Again, I think they've handled her character very well up to now.
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Old 2008-03-01, 20:22   Link #100
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Originally Posted by Deathscyther View Post
I've fallen in love with Nagisa. She's a great character, who has a lot of flaws, but is growing more and more. And this is mostly thanks to Tomoya. And you could say that this words in reverse as well. Nagisa helps Tomoya to grow as well. That's why I like them as a couple as well.

Some people say that she's acting out of character now and I have to disagree with that. I think her development has been handled very well actually. It took some time, but she's finally opening up. She's been developping during all the arcs, while the focus was more on the other characters, but she's been growing during those arcs as well, and especially during the Fuuko arc.
An awkward transition at first glance, but that isn't unnoticed or unintentional by the writers.

Notice how Nagisa is only "bossy" towards Tomoya when they are alone. In front of the others, she is still just as shy as she was in the beginning of the series. Not only is that character development, it shows that she regards her relationship with Tomoya as "special". It's what's natural for her. Nagisa is far more outspoken at home, it just extends to Tomoya now, her character didn't change. I see it as a sign of caring for Tomoya's well being (for him to actually graduate and have a future), just like how she offered to have him stay over.

Second, it's not like the writers didn't know it was going to be awkward. Tomoya even told her that she's surprisingly "meddlesome" in both letting him move in and making him go talk to the teacher (mistranslated as being "a maid" in Sprocket).
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