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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 04 Rating
Perfect 10 17 12.41%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 20.44%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 48 35.04%
7 out of 10 : Good 26 18.98%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 5.84%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.46%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.46%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 6 4.38%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-10-27, 12:21   Link #41
Kazamachi Shogen
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Join Date: Mar 2006
This is by far the most political gundam I've ever seen lol.
Few afterthoughts:
1. Does Setsuna dream about dooms day like that woman in Terminator 2 does
2. Marina's just like I thought, beaming with maternal aura w
3. Her advisor reminds me of Haman..wait.. on a second thought..I'd stick with Lady 1
4. That superhuman girl better not be like those SEED druggies
5. Gundam loosing to a grunt?! Great! Setsuna's stunned expression is priceless
6. Allellujah is a newtype??!
7. Someone pull out heero's outfit, and compare that to preview #5 lol
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Old 2007-10-27, 12:41   Link #42
Rever129
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A more political focused Gundam is a nice change of pace. It'll be interesting to see where they take it.

Btw, Graham's custom Flag is sweet
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Old 2007-10-27, 12:50   Link #43
Demongod86
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Kari-no-sugata, you get a cookie for that.

Anyway, I'm going to give this ep an 8 despite not understanding what they were saying since we get some character development (finally) with Marina.

The one thing I find funny though is that Marina's caucasian ^_^, and even Setsuna isn't that dark. Makes you wonder about their ancestry and how they got there to begin with.

Sumeragi hottness is win. Although I do wonder one thing...in one case, she's strutting around in her blue spandex outfit, and another time, she's in a spacesuit. Why the need for an attire change?

About Graham: Exia already accomplished its objective, so there was no need to fight him. However, it *was* nice to see his custom flag go all superfast. I'm just wondering this...

Why the complete and utter lack of missiles? I realize that the gundams scramble sensors so you can't shoot them down with homing weaponry, but what about other mobile suits? What makes shooting *them* down any different than an F-22 dropping targets out of the sky from 24 miles away with AMRAAMs? Is it because of the lack of oil to launch the missiles?

And on another note about Marina, am I the only one that gets a sort of combination of Lacus and Relena vibes about her? She seems refined, collected, and introspective like Lacus is, but steals her hair style from Relena, and is just about as powerless. She seems like she'll be a real interesting character, especially if she gets fragged in the middle of the series while in the process of trying to give our mini-Heero his humanity back.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:04   Link #44
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
SOmething I only realised now while rewatching the RAW
Spoiler:
In both cases, the aggressor was the side who was punished.

Just because you might be smaller and weaker than you opponent doesn't automatically mean you can't be the bully. And CB was angry too, because they know the nation was trying to manipulate them.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:05   Link #45
brightman
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
The one thing I find funny though is that Marina's caucasian ^_^, and even Setsuna isn't that dark. Makes you wonder about their ancestry and how they got there to begin with.
Middle Easterners ARE Caucasians, by many definitions of the word.

And considering how Azadistan seems to relate more to Central Asia/Persia (rather than Arabia), in which a significant population are light-skinned, your comment looks a bit misinformed.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:07   Link #46
LightningZERO
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Marina seems quite unexperienced. That lady in green is much more aware of all the politic situation than her. I guess Marina still has a lot to learn before she can save her control.

Man, this episode has a lot of political behavior going. While the 3 power seem to be at peace at each other, deep inside they are very interested in getting the Gundam's technology and, I assume, dominate the other power. Union has the Anti Gundam task force and the new shining Custom Flag, HRL has that little girl-druggie/Extended, while AEU has nothing yet

Taribia trying to use Celestial Being to achieve independence is a nice idea, too bad it backs fire to them. I didn't expect to see Gundams attack the Taribia forces instead of Union. I feel bad for the Taribia pilots when they shouted "We didn't do anything yet!". Poor guys.

It's really interesting to see Celestial Being technically 'lose' this battle. They are actually being used by Union (or America?) to stop all the anti America actions, and Setsuna doesn't have a pleasant meeting with Graham too.

Did I mention that the Custom Flag is awesome? Nice color too. But why 2 times the speed? 3 times sounds nicer!

And WTF!? Exia is deep under Tokyo sea?
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:08   Link #47
Demongod86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightman View Post
Middle Easterners ARE Caucasians, by many definitions of the word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriam-webster;
used especially in referring to persons of European descent having usually light skin pigmentation
Exactly the definition I was referring to.

What's a gal of European descent doing being the princess of an Arabian nation?

I hate to sound absurd, but the difference in skin tone between Marina and Princess Jasmine ( ) is strikingly obvious.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:08   Link #48
lubczyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Kari-no-sugata, you get a cookie for that.

Anyway, I'm going to give this ep an 8 despite not understanding what they were saying since we get some character development (finally) with Marina.

The one thing I find funny though is that Marina's caucasian ^_^, and even Setsuna isn't that dark. Makes you wonder about their ancestry and how they got there to begin with.

Sumeragi hottness is win. Although I do wonder one thing...in one case, she's strutting around in her blue spandex outfit, and another time, she's in a spacesuit. Why the need for an attire change?

About Graham: Exia already accomplished its objective, so there was no need to fight him. However, it *was* nice to see his custom flag go all superfast. I'm just wondering this...

Why the complete and utter lack of missiles? I realize that the gundams scramble sensors so you can't shoot them down with homing weaponry, but what about other mobile suits? What makes shooting *them* down any different than an F-22 dropping targets out of the sky from 24 miles away with AMRAAMs? Is it because of the lack of oil to launch the missiles?

And on another note about Marina, am I the only one that gets a sort of combination of Lacus and Relena vibes about her? She seems refined, collected, and introspective like Lacus is, but steals her hair style from Relena, and is just about as powerless. She seems like she'll be a real interesting character, especially if she gets fragged in the middle of the series while in the process of trying to give our mini-Heero his humanity back.
You must understand that Marina is Persian and that Persians are not the same thing as Arabs. Just how the majority of Afghans are not Arabs ethnically. Persians are descended from Indo-Europeans and have a common ancestry with Central and Eastern Europeans (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Latvians, Russians). I know it may sound strange but the Slavs mentioned above along with Persians share a common ancestor. Indo-Europeans (Europe) and Persians (Indo-Iranians or Aryans) possibly have a common ancestry. They're practically cousins. I know it may sound strange, but according to genealogists, there was a major migration 8,000 to 10,000 years ago from we call today Iran/Iraq. A lot of those migrants’ descendents ended in up in what we call today Eastern and Central Europe.

Also, I don't like the use of Caucasian. When the term Caucasian is mentioned, I think of people descended from or having lived in the Caucus Mountains. Not all White people came from the Caucus Mountains. I find the term White more appropriate.

So basically Persians are people what we would call White and not Arab. They’re not Europeans just like the Jews are not Europeans either but are considered to be White.

Even many is not the majority of Arabs have a pale complexion like the Jews, Persians and Europeans, but Arabs have a slightly different history.

You have to know that Persians and Arabs, historically, do not get along well.

Just an FYI and not a Flame Post.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:10   Link #49
Demongod86
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Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
You must understand that Marina is Persian and that Persians are not the same thing as Arabs. Just how the majority of Afghans are not Arabs ethnically. Persians are descended from Indo-Europeans and have a common ancestry with Central and Eastern Europeans (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Latvians, Russians). I know it may sound strange but the Slavs mentioned above along with Persians share a common Indo-European ancestor. They're practically cousins. I know it may sound strange, but according to genealogists, there was a major migration 8,000 to 10,000 years ago from we call today Iran/Iraq. A lot of those migrants’ descendents ended in up in what we call today Eastern and Central Europe.

Also, I don't like the use of Caucasian. When the term Caucasian is mentioned, I think of people descended from or having lived in the Caucus Mountains. Not all White people came from the Caucus Mountains. I find the term White more appropriate.

So basically Persians are people what we would call White and not Arab. They’re not Europeans just like the Jews are not Europeans either but are considered to be white.

Just an FYI and not a Flame Post.
No offense taken. Of course, I do find it slightly hilarious that I'm a distant cousin of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when I am a Jewish Russian

But actually thanks a lot for the FYI. Cookie for that post ^_^
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:19   Link #50
brightman
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
I hate to sound absurd, but the difference in skin tone between Marina and Princess Jasmine ( ) is strikingly obvious.
Except the fact that, like there are Europeans with a variety of skin tones, there are also many Middle Easterners with fair skin (be they Arab or Persian or Israeli or whatever). Princess Jasmine is not a good example of a typical Middle Easterner, AT ALL.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:19   Link #51
lubczyk
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Sorry about my rant above, but I just wanted to say that Persians are considered to be White just as Arghans and Libyians are.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:29   Link #52
brightman
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Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
Sorry about my rant above, but I just wanted to say that Persians are considered to be White just as Arghans and Libyians are.
Actually, in terms of racial classification, so are Arabs. At least the US Census Bureau thinks so.

So like I said, the entire Middle East is considered White/Caucasian/whatever suits your boat.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:35   Link #53
Wen
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I was a little bit speechless by the political discussions but it was good FYI. I'm glad some more info about Setsuna personality is revealed (by interpreting his 'imagination'). Overall, it was a good episode, better than ep 3, in my opinion.

I'm starting to like Setsuna now
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:39   Link #54
rpgman1
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Yeah, I remember that Persians and Arabs are totally different sub races. Watching that from Reign the Conquerer. I was surprised that Persians still exist in the future. The Kurds in present-day Iraq are probably descended from Persians and are the minority group. Makes me wonder if Setsuna is really an Arab fighting in Kurdistan when he was a kid back in the first episode. Those Flags start to look more like the mecha from Xenosaga and the designs look very similar. Since Anon is out for good, I'll get Mendoi-Conclave fansubs instead.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:53   Link #55
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Well enough of the racial discussion, I thought this episode was no different from the first three episodes, so it seems like that it is going to be a problem of the week concept, however I picked out a few things from this.

Spoiler:
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:53   Link #56
lubczyk
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On Gundam 00 Episode 04

On the Gundam 00 episode 04:

I thought this was an excellent episode. We learn a bit more about how Celestial Being operates, along with a bit little character revelations about Setsuna and Marina, and how they think.

The actions of Celestial Beings impressed me in this episode, in that I thought they would decimate both sides: the Union and the Talibian rebels. Instead, they took out the rebels who were clearly in the wrong.

The Union, whether intentionally to try to coerce Celestial Being to act in destroying the rebels, or in trying to avoid civilian causalities: did not open fire on the rebels or the Gundams.

I support freedom and independence movements for I believe that all nations deserve an independent state like Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan and Taiwan. I will not accept, however; using terrorist actions to achieve such ends:

The Talibian Rebels were hiding in the city and hoping for the Union to turn the city into a battleground, so that they (the Talibian Rebles) may garner local and international support for their secession movement.

I do not approve of using civilians and civilian buildings in cities, towns or villages as shields. The Rebels could have used hit and run tactics and used the jungle or the empty countryside as their bases of operations. Instead, they were willing to use civilians as their shield. For that, I'm glad that Celestial Being doesn't approve of using civilians as shields either.

The end (using civilians in cities as your shield) does not justify the means (secession).

Perfect Episode – a solid 10 out of 10.
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Old 2007-10-27, 13:55   Link #57
brightman
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Yeah, I remember that Persians and Arabs are totally different sub races. Watching that from Reign the Conquerer. I was surprised that Persians still exist in the future. The Kurds in present-day Iraq are probably descended from Persians and are the minority group.
Eh? Of course Persians still exist. In fact, Persia itself exists. It just prefers others to call it Iran nowadays.

And Kurds aren't Persians. Different ethnicity of people, though both descended from Indo-Europeans.
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Old 2007-10-27, 14:25   Link #58
lubczyk
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On retrospect on Gundam 00 04:

I find it hard to believe that Celestial Being think they will achieve results through the barrel of a gun.

They don't negioate peacefully, they don't state their conditions for ending specific conflicts, they just pick their targets, and without a word open fire.

I'm not surprized all the major factions are setting up Gundam countermeasures.

The Gundams are loose cannons. Nobody knows what they're going to do. I think they're brining more chaos than peace, but we'll see what the director has to say about that.

Last edited by lubczyk; 2007-10-27 at 17:27.
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Old 2007-10-27, 14:53   Link #59
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Eh? Of course Persians still exist. In fact, Persia itself exists. It just prefers others to call it Iran nowadays.
Yeah if they managed to hang on for 2000+ years, I think they'll still be around in the future 300 years from now.
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Old 2007-10-27, 15:03   Link #60
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I have a feeling those two lackys of Graham will die. They're way too ugly to live for long....

But again, why is Graham going specifically for the Exia, the other Gundams seem to have it easy.

I wonder if Setsuna will indirectly steal Louise from Saji?
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